@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
My good friend, you have still failed to notice the multiple posts I have made, pointing out that my discussion was about the time efficiency of Raid Meta vs. General Fractal Meta. There is not a single aspect of my original discussion that had anything to do with discussing the term "Elitism" or it's definition or if it was fair or unfair to refer to something as "Elitist". Furthermore, your posts indicate that you have not GOOGLED the term "Elitism" on your own accord and certainly did not watch the youtube video that I posted, to explain it to you. If you did and still did not notice how accurate my usage of the term was, you are either:
- (A) Hard headed or
- (B) Trolling
Due to the inevitable answer being one of the above two, this will be my last response to you.
I fail to see how it's not related when you use the word in the title of your own kitten thread. The reason people argue semantics is because it helps root out misunderstanding so that everyone is on the same page. Your arguments are of an entirely subjective and anecdotal nature, which only makes the need to do this even greater to allow for proper discussion.
Merely dismissing others with petty insults while they are trying to explain differences between various concepts makes you look ignorant. Your thread title was needlessly inflammatory, and the personal experience you provide just makes it sound like you're complaining in the same fashion.
Elitism is nothing more than having a specific standard and making decisions based on it because you think that it will obtain superior results. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're upfront about your preferences (and prepared to take longer to fill an LFG).
I'm definitely not misunderstanding the point of a thread that I created myself.
Starting a thread doesn't mean one has a monopoly on understanding the underlying issues. The very title is a misunderstanding: there might be elitism in raids, but it's not something specific and it certainly can't transfer from raids to fractals. Any type of content has the potential to be speedcleared and there are always efficient and less efficient ways to complete it. At the very least, cancelling or not cancelling cutscenes is an optimization choice that all of us make, regardless of build, comp, or skill.
Also, please go GOOGLE the definition of the words "elitist" "elitism". Pretty sure that'll self-end your argument on the definition of term.
Pretty sure that it won't, because there are different sorts of elitism. You want to use the term solely to indicate people who think they are more skilled rejecting from their group folks that the originals think are less skilled. And that's a correct usage.
However, it's also correct to use the term for a group that insists that only they can decide on the proper way to run something. For example, there's a group of folks who insist that executive-appointed jobs in government be filled by those with experience & education and another group who insists that outsiders and self-taught individuals are the right choice.
It's common for people to say that the first is elitist, but it's equally valid to use the term to refer to the second type, too. Both cases involve using a benchmark for rejecting applicants, even as supporters of each philosophy tell us they have good reason for it.
The definition of the term "elitist" literally sets the benchmark for what is elitist.
Yes, and insisting that there's only one proper way to LFG crosses that line, whether it's insisting that players run a specific comp or insisting that people accept any build/prof combination.
The fatal flaw in the original post is the assumption that there's something wrong with having standards for one's LFG. It's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy that LFG has a lot of groups looking for a specific comp that doesn't fit our personal play preferences, but that doesn't mean that there's anything the matter with doing so.
There's nothing wrong with being elitist. After all, if your child is falsely accused of committing a crime, are you really going to choose any lawyer but the most successful you can afford? You'd want the best, not the well-meaning, earnest, and sympathetic kid who finally passed the bar on their 4th try.
And there's nothing wrong with having bad standards either. If people want to insist on using a comp of "one healer, one control, one tank, two DPS" for fractals, that's their choice, even if someone could somehow prove that it isn't likely to be as efficient as not specifying a comp or a different comp.
The problem is when people are jerks about their preferences. And that goes both for people who are rude about kicking and for people who join without paying attention to their LFG.
tl;dr elitist just means insisting on a specific standard because you think it's superior; there's nothing wrong with it.
its been like this for over 2 years now
Anet just doest not care about how many already left wvw/spvp or even the whole game because of the powercreep/balancing issues
its really not understandable MO himself was so proud of that gw2 does not devaluate what you got when new addons come out
yeah right without the new specs you are left behind in the dust so much we exatly have the problem that any other mmo has when a new addon brings a new level cap
congratz Anet for that ... so far for
gw2 will never have a new lvl cap
the crowd sheered as HoT was revealed as he said that
would have been interissting to see if the crowd also had sheered if he told them that gw2 will have no new lvl cap but elite specs will be so overpowered that you will not be able to compete with your core builds anymore ...
But just think how great that damage is for pve!!!
For the life of me, I cannot understand why players are so headstrong about getting off their current class and getting on one that can easily deal with scourges.
Yes we should all just reroll to 2 classes because of scourge. Rather than you know, having a healthy and diverse meta.
Oh and nevermind that Soulbeast and Deadeye are worthless against everything but scourge which means you won't actually kill the enemy scourge because you'll get counterpressured and rekt by the Scourges teammates. Players have adapted to Scourge, players have discovered the best way to handle a Scourge is to bring your own Scourge, and players have learned that anything other than the 3 builds that can coexist with scourge is no longer worth playing.
Oh and I hope you realize that Scourge is itself a ranged class. Or have you not noticed that Manifest Shade, scepter, and staff are all ranged?
Mmmmm.... do you remember the cele-ele meta? That meta that forced every team to have an ele (or two) or just lose the match, without any kind of possible counter to that build? There was Literally Not a Single Counter to that meta. That meta build was so strong that ANet was forced to make Necros able to kill it because there was not a single class able to kill a skilled ele both in 1v1 or team fight. But ANet forgot to make necros able to fight other classes out of eles. That made necros the only class able to corrupt boons and kill eles and that granted to necros a spot in the meta but at the same time there was so much counters that a necro needed an ele to survive... the class it was made to counter.... But that's ANet logic, we're not here to discuss about that.
We had seriously worst meta OP classes and builds in the past.
The actual necro is seriously insane in team fights if the enemy team is all in the center of the point waiting to get killed. But any decent focus can kill a scourge pretty easy and fast. Only play scourge with firebrand make it able to survive a real fight in the middle against someone that know how to play. But different classes can still burst down a scourge if they want, still if it's under the FB protection.
Also, that post don't say to play Only the things that counter scourge but that if you really hate it there's a lot of classes able to kill it.
If you hate so much the Scourges just play what kill them. Basicly every ranged dps class can kill a scourge and some can burst it really fast.
The reason is that the scourge is mainly a ranged class but also it's main damage is chained to one (or more) Ground Target Immobile Shade that can't move and anyone able to hit the necro from afar and able to move enough to go out of the Shade range can easly evade 70% of the scourge damage. A melee build would never be able to do that because the scourge can stay near the shade and the Fx effects also hits in the range from the necro itself, making it a perfect class to counter melee builds. But a ranged build can.
Ranger, Thief, Revenant, Mesmer, they all can kill any scourge in 1v1 and in different situations also burst it down during a team fight. Maybe a revenant lack a bit the ability to fight at the same level of other classes in terms of fight enemies that aren't a scourge, but all the others are really strong also against other classes and there's different builds they can use and pretty much every build they use can kill a scourge if they have a ranged weapon.
The scourge is strong but can be hard countered and heavly bursted down by a large amount of classes. That make it balanced and totally not OP if you move out of gold rank.
At last, nerf the damage of the scourge will remove the only thing it have. No mobility, no survavibility (not a decent one, at last), no support. Reduce it's damage without grant it anything will only push it out of the meta and nothing more.
A large amount of players hate the scourge but the point here is not make it weak but make it counterable by other classes. For example reducing a little it's AoE (maybe in sPvP only) and reduce the Cripple spam. That will make scourge lesser OP and more of the other classes able to fight it.
I've been maining necro and ritualist since GW1 and I can tell tell OP that a hard counter to current scourge is ranged. In random sPvP I've been slaughtered by rifle engi, pew pew thieves and just about any class that utilises range weapons, or hit and run tactics.
You do realised we don't have a lot (zero in some cases) of escape mechanisms, stealth or teleport. Doesn't matter how you mince the 'overpoweredness' maybe its just a placebo effect?
The more you play the class, the more you realised there are so many wrong things with scourge and overpoweredness is not one of them.
While many people are distressed that a balance patch did not come out sooner, many haven't really made any constructive remarks on what specifically should be changed.
I'm going to try to detail some of the specific mechanics of meta builds that we see all the time that lead to a meta that is uninteractive, that has very little counterplay or skill involved.
The meta mirage build specifically involves combining two skills with no animation, jaunt and shatters (clones are good animations, but often the illusionary persona is good enough) to do most of its pressure. Putting some torch burns on top of this combo can do near 1 shots on persons without condi cleanse. The issue is not that they have 1 shot burst potential or that they have enough constant pressure to bait out condi cleanses. It is that most of this has no animation for a class that also has another great mechanic of the mirage cloak.
So what is the fix for this? Traited torch burns could be lowered from a potential of 7-8 to like 5-6. Landing big burst combos should be rewarding still, but not to the level they are especially when mesmer has access to so many and so constant of cover condis. The internal cd between using stocks of jaunt (not the stock recharge) can be raised and remove 1 stack of confusion from it so that it is used more as a utility skill than a constant burst.
Engineer - The main problem of interactivity with engineer is the timing of the damage tied to their dodge roll traits. If you compare holosmith to every other dodging trait in the game (daredevil, strength warrior, arcane ele) their effects happen some time after the initial dodge animation. Holo's damage dodge trait happens immediately as they dodge, and can add up to around 8k damage if the positioning is right for the other trait. For one of the highest damaging dodges in the game, it has too little counterplay. Either put the damage component at the end of the dodge (but showing an animation at the beginning of the dodge) or lower the damage done significantly. I prefer changing the timing of the dodge because this allows you to pressure a holo by standing on top of them and then moving in the direction opposite of the way they dodge to avoid the damage. Also possibly make the mines that drop from the explosives trait dodge take half a second to deploy fully.
Scourge has tons of corrupts on top of its insane damage output. I think that their damage should remain somewhat the same since they are significantly squishier than reaper (and I would propose some nerfs to firebrand which enables scourge to be so strong). That being said, one of the major problems with scourge is that corruptions are much stronger than boon rip because the conditions they apply are very powerful. I would tone down the durations of ALL conditions that are applied by corrupted boons, this is also more in line with the condition duration nerf a few patches ago, that didn't address corrupts.
Also scourge has very little animation on their F skills. I like that there are combos for necro enabled because they are instant cast, but perhaps give less reward for spamming the shade skills at once. A 2 or 3 second ICD on dhuumfire and the torment applied by shade skills would promote using shade skills for both their supportive AND their damaging aspects rather than just spamming them all at once when you are sure that they will hit. This also wouldn't reduce the potential overall damage scourges do, it would just promote more interactive play by making the scourge think about what skill they use at the time, and allow the opponent some time to decide whether they can handle the pressure instead of being overloaded all at once.
Firebrand is by far the best support build to ever exist. Combined with scourge it is the most effective 2v2 comp, and by itself it provides the most for a pure support role. It makes outnumbered situations survivable with the amount of condi cleanse and defensive boon uptime, which greatly reduces the viability of any dps class that doesnt provide tons of damage and corrupts or boon removal. The only counterplays to firebrand plus a scourge (note that firebrand is not very good without scourge because it doesnt have enough killing power and vice versa scourges don't have enough survivability) seem to be: play three point comp and rotate around it and make it be in awkward situations where it needs to kill things (but is obviously unable to help much in that regard), focus it with multiple dps classes, or just play firebrand scourge yourself. The first method requires a massive outplay rotationally and a strategy of "completely avoid this person" which is very uninteractive. The second method is extremely risky for little reward because it means outnumbering with a support class or bringing an inferior 2v2 comp to try to beat a scourge firebrand, and the third is not very fun or interactive for the 4 people forced into the 2v2 as fb scourge vs fb scourge. So how do we overturn the firebrand + scourge combo without making both of the classes terrible individually? Give scourge some more defense and less offense and give firebrand more offense and less defense. Out of all my changes proposed this is the one i'm least confident about. I don't really agree with lowering scourge damage that much or making firebrands be more of a bruiser role. However the issue is that firebrand scourge is not very fun and interactive to play, but will exist because it is the best. So somehow make it not the best or make it more fun to play as and against.
The main meta counter for thieves right now is the S/D core build which can deal with a lot of situations, much moreso than D/P daredevil. However it also seems to be the best plus 1 against necros and guards. A lot of this is due to the pure output of larcenous strike when in an outnumbering situation. The 7k crits while also being unblockable and boon ripping create very easy and thoughtless decisions. Of course there is much more counter play to larcenous strike than all of the other classes mentioned above, however precasting flanking strike and then stealing into larcenous still exists for bursts of 5 boon rip plus 9k damage. This is backstab levels of damage on a much more spammable kit. I would nerf it by about 8% both against booned and boonless targets. Otherwise thief is fine.
Druid is without a doubt the best 1v1 class in the game right now. This is due to it having so much sustain from celestial avatar and troll unguent's ability to bridge the gap between each other. This is all fine because druid needs to have a niche for it to be viable, however there should be a way to counter play their sustain and finish them. As it is now, they have stealth on leaving CA and when landing a longbow attack (current meta build for 1v1s on druid uses long bow and sword, staff doesn't pressure current 1v1 matchups hard enough but certainly makes them much harder to kill) There is arguably no way a competent ranger who rotates through their stealth and sustain CDs appropriately should die. Even in 1v2s the ranger can stealth and reset while wasting time for the outnumber. The solution to this i think is to put a much longer cast time on the longbow 3 which stealths them. As it is now it has barely any cast time or animation so there's no way to prevent them from getting into stealth, then when they are in stealth they can freely cast all of their other sustain skills and get their sustain engine running. Also troll unguent should have a longer cast time to make it more interuptable. These changes should keep ranger in its top spot of 1v1er, but make it much easier to stun lock, disrupt, and plus 1 to actually kill.
Weaver is in somewhat of a questionable spot with no real role. It doesn't 1v1 better than druid, but it also doesn't do more damage than a holo in a skirmishing role, and doesn't provide that much sustain to its team. The meta is much too role-defined for a jack of all trades class to work well. However, with the mentioned nerfs to other classes it should be in a better spot. I don't think ele really needs any buffs specifically. Tempest could use some buffs to close the distance between it and firebrand in a sustain role. Stability and resistance is one thing that firebrands have that make them above tempests in support. Let tempests have something that guardians don't. Auras do not do much in the way of supporting other than the healing they give. One possibility is to make tempest a more aggressive support and make auras (just add this baseline in one of the tempest minor traits) increase the offensive stats of players as well. For example, 150 power and precision and condition damage while under your auras or might has an increased effect while under your auras. I'm really terrible at weaver so i won't propose any buffs specifically, but I'm sure someone else who wants weaver to be balanced and not overpowered can propose some.
However, the sword weaver's sustain build with healing power has similarly uninteractive gameplay to a ranger. It of course has less pressure and less kiting abitlity, but it could become a really strong bruiser with constant pressure and on- node-aoe. My only change would be to reduce the amount of healing that the sword 2 in water does, which heals them for a lot more than I think is necessary to sustain 1v1s, but heals them enough to survive outnumbered situations they shouldn't survive.
Marauders herald is really good at pressuring firebrands, but really bad at surviving scourges. The changes to offhand sword were good but there needs to be more self sustain for a class that requires to be melee to mid range for most of its damage. Compared to other classes, it has very low condition cleanse. I would improve the conditions cleansed by the invoking legend swap from 1 to 2, then increase the cast time of staff 4 so you can get your cleanse when you need it and not take too much extra pressure while trying to cleanse. Otherwise, no other buffs should be necessary if the above nerfs are made.
Pretty balanced imo. high dps that allows it to be one of the only counters to druid in 1v1, but lacks the presence of a holo or rev in larger fights. I wouldn't change anything.
As the devs introduce more and more progression locked behind raids, such as the new ring, it makes sense to open the gates of raiding to people who have little interest in challenging raid content. I myself would raid more often with an easy mode. It's not that I can't do it right now, I just don't have unlimited time and would rather play something else and raids are too long. I'm just not terribly interested and invested in raiding, I find pvp and wvw more interesting due to the ever changing parameters and enemies. That being said, since raiders can come to wvw and take a slot to afk and flip a camp every 10 mins for our game mode's rewards, it would only be fair if I could do the same thing with raids. I'm mostly interested in raid weapon skins and magnetite shards, legendary insights aren't excessively appealing to me.
As for the hard mode, why not, that being said, just don't turn GW2 into wow by putting too much emphasis on hardcore raiding.
@Nuka Cola.8520 said:
@Nuka Cola.8520 said:
Easy fix. Make it go on full CD when cancelled, just like blurred frenzy.
Seems fair to me. While we're at it, you can boost the damage to be equal to that of Death's Judgement, the range to 1500, and make our shatters work at 1500 range too, thanks.
trying to imply Mirage needs a buff?
Nope, trying to imply that using the balance applied to completely different skills on a completely different class as justification for nerfs on a different class is the height of idiocy. Neither of the things in either of our posts have even the most remote realistic justification for occurring.