Forceful persistence could need a buff/rework — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Forceful persistence could need a buff/rework

Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 11, 2020 in Revenant

Since its a pure damage trait, its not really improving an heralds/boonbots overall dps.

Draconic echo is in every way improving the overall dps. Shiros F2 is almost the same in raids as forceful persistence.
And compared to fights outside of 10man groups, (where fights go longer than.... one shots?)
its still less damage than Draconic Echo

Why? because Drac. Echo lets the herald keep up 25might permanent through Incensed Response. So in longer fights its an better choice than forceful persistence.
(not to mention the boons that you+9allies that are being kept up, like swiftness or protection - btw having no boons for some time means less dmg ...~1% less per)

My opinion: The support side - herald with its aspects - can stay in his damage he gets now.
Other upkeeps - like legends that dont rely on buffs like herald (shiro/mallyx/dwarf) - should get an way higher dmg boost out of that.

Comments

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Crazy idea but what if Forceful Persistence gave like 5% damage boost to allies yu apply boons to?
    I mean most Heralds don't ever use Forceful Persistence anyway, even for Solo content, due to how great the lingering Fury pulse is with Incensed Response.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2020

    I think part of the problem is that Draconic Echo is such an absurdly busted GM trait and eclipses the others. It makes a total mockery of boon duration investment, especially in PvE. In my opinion Forceful Persistence is fine but I would like for it to have a condition damage component to it as well so that there is a competitive choice for condition Heralds that aren't using Glint.

  • Forceful persistence is better in 5 man content if you’re a dps Herald, since it’s a better trait if you have a reliable 25 stacks of might from elsewhere and don’t need to keep up boons for friends. With proper management in open world/solo can be better than Drac Echo as well. Doesn’t need to be changed; maybe just increased slightly

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭

    Why not making herald a full sup/healer elite and make renegade a full dps with both power and condi options ?
    I mean it would be better that way in my opinion and less akward than having everything mixed up.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Why not making herald a full sup/healer elite and make renegade a full dps with both power and condi options ?
    I mean it would be better that way in my opinion and less akward than having everything mixed up.

    It already technically is.

    Herald has like a majority of their Traits focused on team support and durability, making them already a good support spec.
    Just because something is focused on support doesn't mean it should do absolutely no damage.

    But I think what yur thinking of here is why Alacri-gade is a thing, well because it provides Alacrity and alot of extra damage boost from Soulcleave and Assassin's Presence.
    Just so happens Alacri-gade combos well with Firebrigade.

    Unless what yur trying to suggest is give Herald Alacrity as well to compete with Kalla + Ventari.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2020

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    In my opinion Forceful Persistence is fine but I would like for it to have a condition damage component to it as well so that there is a competitive choice for condition Heralds that aren't using Glint.

    ye same with rising tides from invocation

    invocation should be an traitline that can be used for every way ppl wanna play with. Not only having to chose between for example
    Cleansing - Power dmg increase - better stunbreaks

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    invocation should be an traitline that can be used for every way ppl wanna play with. Not only having to chose between for example
    Cleansing - Power dmg increase - better stunbreaks

    They really have to make Invocation more generalized for sure.
    Right now it is being used somewhat as a "Legend Swap booster" because of Cleansing Channel and Charging Mists.

    I think I might get shot for suggesting anything but imo :

    • Charging Mist should be a minor.
    • Incensed Response should be given a 5s ICD and grants Might on using a skill with Energy cost
    • Empty Vessel put back into GM trait replacing Charging Mist
    • Throw Contained Temper out the window

    Also increased condition damage for Rising Tides is a great idea too.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭

    Well i know being suport doesnt mean you have to deal no dmg qnd i also know how alacrene work.
    What i meant is that we actualy have herald that is mostly focused on boons and has some heal and dps traits , as well as renegade , more focused on condi dmg and boons in terms of traits and the perma alac. Now i think we all agree that herald looks like a more boon/heal focused elite but most of its boons (at least in raids) are covered by other classes , while renegade has more dmg centered skills but the strongest of its skills are citadel and orders ,one perma boon and one huge area dmg (even when citadel has its dmg scatered through all of its area).
    Now if we count the number of builds we have with the elites (for pvp at least) we have healer herald and renegade , alacrene , condi renegade, boon herald and power herald or renegade , both healing builds are good , its heal is good and each elite gives some boons to help , alacrene doesnt even need to be explained i think , condi build? Good and even better after the last patch , boon herald ? Little dps and very comon buffs so its more like a filing gaps build , power builds? Well you sure have already heard this many times but even if the last patch buffed it a bit its still too weak compared to the others and furthermore its more akward to play (its funny playing with energy but the number of skills , its cds and energy cost is just badly done in the power build .
    Now what i propose is , focus herald in healing and giving boons so you can either heal more or give better boons when you choose the right traits , also having alacrity given to herald instead of renegade wouldnt even be a buff or a nerf but simple change of elite (i mean we already have perma alac aniway) , on the other hand renegade could get some changes like having a more centered skill instead of orders from above , also trais that increase bow dmg or just dmg in general (a 10% dmg modifier when using certain skill or when were above 90%health ) ,also both shiro and dual swords need changes , first when using power buids we spend too much time doing auto atacks either because we dont have energy enought or because we have to wait to a cd to use the skills we need so its too restrictive , also in shiro the only skill you use in power builds for pve is IO and the others are just too expensive and do almost no dps (phase traversal and the other i cant remember sry) so why not joining them like the old ranger sword skill ? One activation is a flee that removes a couple condis and the other is a gap closer that gives unblocable for a couple seconds , give it a cost of 35 energy and i think its perfectly balanced (remember that the top is 100 ) , that way you could give a dmg skill to shiro so when you want to spend energy to get dps you can use a skill to do so .
    That way we could have a elite for heal/boon and one for dps both power and condi