Expansion Elite Specialization Thread

Hello, This post will be focused on some options for the next Necromancer Elite Specialization. I will be outlining how some existing information can be used to identify a potential future elite specialization but feel free to use the ideas as a point for creating your own. In addition if an intern at anet is looking for ideas for a balance team meeting this will hopefully make their workload an couple hours shorter.

 

Profession Mechanic

By charting the previous profession mechanics of Necromancer E-Specs the most obvious profession mechanic would be a Shroud-less, Melee set of skills.		Ranged	Melee
Shroud	Core	Reaper
Shroud-less	Scourge	New E-Spec

 

Theme

The most popular themes that can fit with the previous profession mechanic requirements would be;

• Minion-mancer
• Ritualist
• Vampiric (Life sacrifices)

If the E-Spec would be designed to fit into the current saga both Ritualist and Minion-mancer would fit the current tone and ideas, while a vampric E-Spec would not fit as cleanly.

Ongoing class issues

A unique opportunity with releasing a new E-Spec would be the ability to redo some sections of the class that currently lag behind.Death Magic - Minions;A Minion-mancer specialization would be particularly effective in resolving the ongoing identity issues surrounding Death Magic and Minions, hopefully improving the Necromancer identity in the process.Scourge;The Ritualist specialization would be an excellent opportunity to create space for a new support e-spec on necromancer, this would help scourge by splitting the weight of a support builds between the two and allowing it to have a more focused set of skills.

  

##Suggested E-Spec : SummonerThe introduction of the summoner would involve a rework of death magic and current minion skills. My recommendation would be to replace minion skills with Glyphs. Glyphs would be activate-able in shroud for their second effect.**Weapon - Shield***The shield allows the summoner to command their minions in the thick of combat, bolstering their armies with the life force of the dead.*- *Summon Bone Shield* Protect yourself with a summoned barrier. Ammo skill.- *Dark Binding* Mark nearby foes, inflicting conditions over time. *Consume Binding* Consume the binding, pulling marked foes towards you.**Profession Mechanic - Summons***Advanced knowledge of death allows the necromancer to summon horrors or enhance themselves, with the life force of their foes.*- *Bone Minion* Rigor Mortis: Immobilize your bone minion, and immobilize foes.- *Putrid Fiend* Putrid Explosion: Explode next to foes, dealing heavy damage.- *Shadow Fiend* Haunt: Your shadow fiend haunts your target, inflicting conditions.- *Flesh Golem* Charge: Your flesh golem gains stability then charges at your foe, knocking down or launching foes in its path.- *Metamorphosis* Consume your life force over time, gaining increased damage and condition damage. While metamorphosed weapon skills count as in shroud.**Utility Skills - Commands***Commands allow complete control over your minions, and allies.*- *Feast* Heal yourself and your minions, gain additional healing for each active minion.- *Hold* Minions protect allies at target location, minions take reduced damage.- *Focus them* Your minions attack your target, increasing damage.- *Disengage* Your minions return to you, Your minions gain protection and regeneration.- *Engage* Your minions target the nearest foe, Your minions gain stability and fury.- *Finish them* Minions target low health foes in target area. Minions temporarily deal increased damage to foes below the threshold. **Traits**Minor- *Shield proficiency*- *Empowering Siphon* Disabling a foe grants fury.- *March of the Damned* The effectiveness of incoming movement-impairing conditions is reduced by 20%.Adept- *Unholy Fortitude* Minions gain additional health.- *Purification* You have a chance to apply poison on critical hits.- *Dark armor* Channeled skills grant protection. Protection on you gains increased effectiveness.Master- *Grip of Death* Foes struck below the threshold are weakened. Gain increased critical chance against weakened foes.- *Dark Pact* Minions deal reduced damage, You deal additional damage for each summoned minion.- *Bone Fortress* Shield skills gain reduced recharge. Gain toughness based on your power.Grandmaster- *Command the living* Commands now affect nearby allies and gain increased targets. Commands gain reduced recharge.- *Flesh for the Master* While metamorphosed absorb your minions, gain increased attributes based on the minions absorbed.- *Deathly Corruption* Weakened foes are additionally poisoned.

If you would like to add your own elite specialization ideas below please use the following tags to make page traversal easier.

<details open><content>Place the title here</content>Place your ideas here...</details>

While I commend the work, It's not how e-specs are done. E-spec do not replace anything.

To have a minion master/summoner e-spec, one have to design it while respecting a few bothering rules:

• At least a minion have to be available whatever the build chosen in this e-spec.
• Special mechanic have to respect the core traits.

Way to have minions available whatever the build:

• Transform the shroud into a single minion commanded by a mandatory weapon skillkit when the miniion is summoned.
• Have a minor trait periodically summoning criter minions.
• Have one of the weapon skill slot transformed to create a minion on use.
• Have a "shroud" skill other than Shrd#1, Shrd#2, Shrd#4 or "in Shroud" skill, create minions.

Core traits that make things difficult:

• Shrd#1 traits: You need a spammable Shrd#1 that allow the use of those broken traits without breaking (scourging) the game.
• In shroud traits: You need a shroud skill with defense that put you "in shroud" (due to Unholy sanctuary), have a reasonnable uptime due to all the traits that buff "in shroud" and have a reasonnable CD due to the "flash shrouding" traits.
• Miscellanous: Core traits that buff a single shroud skill cannot be attached to a minion's skill.

Additionnal things that need to be taken into account:

• The necromancer have an unhealthy amount of dedication toward fear and thus need a source of fear for their e-specs.
• The necromancer cannot be reactive because "shroud".
• The necromancer cannot block because "shroud".
• The necromancer cannot have to much dodge because "shroud".
• The necromancer cannot have what other professions have because "shroud".

E-spec example:

Summoner:

• Weapon: shield

• Utilities: Glyphs (change when your shroud minion is summoned)

• Special mechanism: The shroud is now an external shroud in the form of a minion whose health pool is your life force. Whenever this minion is summoned your weapon skillset is replaced by the summoner skillset (You are considered in shroud but your Health pool isn't sheltered by LF)

• Shrd#1: Life dart: Low damage single target AA (Your minion will attack this target).

• Shrd#2: "Haunt!": Command your minion to shadow step onto the targeted foe blinding it.

• Shrd#3: "Howl!": Command your minion to produce a terrifying shout.

• Shrd#4: "Draw!": Command your minion to drain the area around him making him channel a skill for a few seconds.

• Shrd#5: "Rest in peace!": Sacrifice your minion to gain a barrier. (skill proc'd by Unholy sanctuary)

• Traitline Upper: increase survivability of your summon (LF gain/damage reduction...)

• Traitline Middle: make your minion more supportive (ex: a trait making "Draw!" actually draw conditions from allies with each tic.)

• Traitline Lower: Increase your minion's offensive power.

No more AI please. It's probably going to be a mostly melee range condi spec (without corrupts or shroud) that brings necro to a higher damage level possible than scourge in PvE.Torment/poison/bleed , with dhuumfire burning might be the idea? Confusion doesn't really fit.Chill/fear CC would be thrown in with vulnerability.I really doubt "ritualist" is going to be necro spec since the revenant has that element to it (with champion ritualist title for revs as well).

My main issue with summoner is that our current minions don’t look cool and evil.The overall design of our minions look cute rather than dark and scary.Would prefer Diablo styled minions tbh.

I want something special for a MM Elite.Idea here is to support MM players who want to slot their Utility bars full of Minions.

MM Elite will allow the Necromancer to temporarily draw in their Minions to empower themselves upon activating Death Shroud.

Their Death Shroud will be exactly the same as Core Necro, except their Utility bar will now contain altered versions of Minion actives which center around the Necromancer.These utility slots will only be active if there was a Minion skill slotted prior.

eg. The MM has slotted :

• Summon Blood Fiend
• Summon Bone Fiend
• Summon Bone Minions
• Summon Shadow Fiend
• Summon Flesh Golem

Their Shroud utility bar will now contain altered Minion actives :

• Taste of Death : activate to restore 5000 Life Force
• Rigor Mortis : Extend tendrils to nearby enemies and immobilize them
• Putrid Explosion : Explode and deal damage to enemies nearby, poisoning and crippling them
• Haunt : Teleport towards the target and inflict conditions
• Charge : Gain Stability and launch enemies nearby

Upon leaving Shroud, the Minions will be released, but their actives will be on a reduced cooldown if they have been used while in Shroud.

The Elite spec will naturally come with some special Minions of their own to aid in this altered playstyle.

Sorry for the delayed reply, all the responses came in just as I went to sleep.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:While I commend the work, It's not how e-specs are done. E-spec do not replace anything.Thank you, I needed to unload my brain onto something.I am aware that the idea of E-Specs is to add new features to the class, but I saw an opportunity to update minions while not overly rehashing any old content at the same time. My recommendation was to replace existing minion skills with glyphs, and do a re-re-rework of DM.

• Shrd#1 traits: You need a spammable Shrd#1 that allow the use of those broken traits without breaking (scourging) the game.
• The necromancer have an unhealthy amount of dedication toward fear and thus need a source of fear for their e-specs.I now realize that I completely missed these two interactions, Maybe something along the lines of the F1 being changed to Putrid Fiend for more spam casting (on ammo?)
• In shroud traits: You need a shroud skill with defense that put you "in shroud" (due to Unholy sanctuary), have a reasonable uptime due to all the traits that buff "in shroud" and have a reasonable CD due to the "flash shrouding" traits.The in-shroud effect was being covered by F5 (Metamorphosis)
• Miscellaneous: Core traits that buff a single shroud skill cannot be attached to a minion's skill.My original intention was to move these buffs to weapon skills, but could not find a cohesive way to resolve that....because "shroud".The hope was that the lack of shroud equivalents (without heavy trait investment) this spec would be largely free of the 'because shroud' balance

 

@Infusion.7149 said:No more AI please. It's probably going to be a mostly melee range condi spec (without corrupts or shroud) that brings necro to a higher damage level possible than scourge in PvE.The idea would be that the AI would be doing little decision making as all the command skills override their current task, Allowing oyu to micro-manage them.

 

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:My main issue with summoner is that our current minions don’t look cool and evil.The overall design of our minions look cute rather than dark and scary.Would prefer Diablo styled minions tbh.If Anet was going to the effort of doing a MM spec I would highly hope that they would invest in revamping the current models. Imagine the flurries of particle effects with every command

 

Additional minor aesthetic I that I forgot to mention. Necromancer commands would be calmly stated unlike Ranger Commands.. The intended affect of this would be to project calm yet brutally-efficient overlord, rather than a hyped up coach.

1) no to another minion thread2) id mostly like to see a MAIN hand, given that we got lowest weapon number of choices, or even 0 choice if u count as 2 condi 2 power picks.

@Flumek.9043 said:1) no to another minion thread2) id mostly like to see a MAIN hand, given that we got lowest weapon number of choices, or even 0 choice if u count as 2 condi 2 power picks.

Lowest weapon number of choices? Good joke. Look at the weapon arsenal available for engineer.

I really hope the next spec isn't shroudless.

I strongly dislike Scourge purely because it has no shroud, completely ruins the spec for me and I don't like the Shades as a trade off.Not saying Scourge is a bad spec or anything.. just that I don't like it.

I want to see something bordering on crazy science, with plague bombs and such. I would call it the Apothecary, and give it pistols (or a new thrown grenade-like weapon type, if we get any) and elixirs. Then replace the shroud for a chemical table where you can mix concoctions before drinking them and puking the result against the enemy. To top it off, give it a plaguedoctor mask skin.

I would throw all my money away if we got something like this.

Since we're going asian-themed by doing Cantha next, doing something with ghosts/ancestral spirits/something along those lines feels thematically appropriate. Could be done as the minion spec, giving us ghost pets to go along with all the flesh constructs we get as part of the base class. Alternatively, it could be a spec that lets you become a ghost, and serve as a more mobility-focused option. Just to toss a couple random ideas out there.

@Teratus.2859 said:I really hope the next spec isn't shroudless.

I strongly dislike Scourge purely because it has no shroud, completely ruins the spec for me and I don't like the Shades as a trade off.Not saying Scourge is a bad spec or anything.. just that I don't like it.

Interestingly, I hate shrouds. I hope it is shroudless. Shroud ruins the whole theme of the necromancer when translating it form GW1.

@Lily.1935 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I really hope the next spec isn't shroudless.

I strongly dislike Scourge purely because it has no shroud, completely ruins the spec for me and I don't like the Shades as a trade off.Not saying Scourge is a bad spec or anything.. just that I don't like it.

That's a fair reason, shrouds were not a thing in Gw1 that's very true.

The problem with Shroudless in Gw2 though is that Necromancers were designed around the concept of having a shroud as a secondary HP bar of sorts so taking it away from them is devastating to their survivability unless you introduce a substitue like Barrier which the Scourge did.If you don't really use the Barrier though and you don't have the shroud it makes Necros extremely squishy to play, this is ultimately what killed my original Scourge build and made me go back to playing a condi reaper.Ultimately the Necromancer in Gw2 is supposed to be the light armour tank sort of class which it just cannot do effecitvely without the shroud.

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I really hope the next spec isn't shroudless.

I strongly dislike Scourge purely because it has no shroud, completely ruins the spec for me and I don't like the Shades as a trade off.Not saying Scourge is a bad spec or anything.. just that I don't like it.

In my opinion we should get to about 5 elite specs. That the number I'd like to see. Or at least 4. With four we could have 2 shroud specs and 2 shroudless specs.

Minion Master for example would be dreadful as a shroud spec. It would work best as a shroudless spec to provide better control over the summoned minions which would be their shroud skills. So f1 would be summon and the f2-5 could be means to command them to do actions. This would be the best for this spec.

As for Another highly requested spec, the Vampire, I feel a shroud would work better. A sorta blood shroud form which would probably be best for them. Don't want to get into detail about that but, life stealing, bleeding and supernatural speed and whatnot just works best for a vampire theme.

For the 5th spec that's frequently requested the Shaman/Ritualist I honestly could see it going either way. A shroud would work just fine I think as long as its more like Celestial avatar form as opposed to death shroud or Reaper's shroud. But that's not the only option.

I very much enjoy Scourge. As squishy as they are not, they're still pretty resilient... The reduced cooldown of the shades has helped quite a bit. I'm just not a fan of being a caster in melee. If I want to melee I have plenty of classes I can play to do that. I'd much prefer to play a more martial class as melee like Revenant or Guardian.

I... kinda just want them to take a hard look at ghost rider, the darkness from the darkness comics and Spawn and make a spec.. lmfao

I'm... really not comfortable about taking minions away from core necro. It should always be possible to make a MM reaper (particularly given the existence of "Rise!"), or a MM scourge, or even a MM core necro (particularly starting characters). It's one of the basic assumptions of necromancer that minions are an option should you choose to take it.

If we were to look to make a more minion-focused necromancer specialisation, I'd probably take one of two approaches:

Approach 1: Basically, ritualist. Give the necromancer an alternative source of summons, which they might use in lieu of their existing minions or in combination with them.

Approach 2: Support. Consider the orders necro from GW1 - one possibility could be to have buffs along those lines in lieu of shroud abilities. The general principle there is that while it's not bringing minions directly, if you don't have anything else to buff, you can buff your minions. Scourge MM has something of this effect, but mostly through traits and the skill that grants barrier - this could be a bit more direct.

I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

@Axl.8924 said:I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

As got pointed out many times: You can't get rid of shroud completely. Necromancer is bound to have a way to shield their health through life force in some way as long as traits like Unholy Sanctuary exist. And mechanics like invuln, ports, blocks, evades won't get implemented in the class as long as necromancers have such shrouds.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

Scourge doesn't have a shroud, but it has barriers.

I know I'm kinda flip-flopping, but I am worried they would kitten up the next elite spec completely. I don't trust anet, and I'd love a spec not weighed down just because I have a shroud, and unable to compete with other classes.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I am sick of shroud just let us have more invulns and ports. I don't care if we have no shroud so long as we get compensated and not slow as slugs and easy free kills.

If you think about it: the shroud basically has been a barrier from the very beginning. You are shielding your health points for a specific amount of damage, based on the life force available.

Shroud basically has been a barrier before barrier was a thing, just that you had to build it up over time, it depletes over time when used and it changes your abilities. But the base function of shielding your health pool from damage is the same basically.And so Scourge also has some form of built in defense. The barrier from Desert Shroud is not so much different. And necromancer always will have such defensive mechanics, since their class mechanic is centered on that defense.

And with these mechanics, necromancer won't get a majority of tools like invuln, blocks, evades and such. Since they already have a baseline defensive mechanic.

I personally really like the idea of an E-spec for necro that's more minion-focused in a different and more interesting way than something like the current necro pets. None of the current specs fill that space and I could definitely see something like a Warlock or Demonologist that summons temporary demons. Maybe summon skills replace shroud but give you different meat shields instead, and the utilities being command skills could add fun and interesting ways to have more control over them, not to mention traits. Add in existing minion master stuff and BAM you have a third new take on necro. MH mace or sword as a new weapon could probably fit that vibe easily.

Regardless i'm very excited by all the talk about what's to come and i'm pumped to see what we end up with.

Looking at the lore of Cantha we might see necromancy go underground due to the Ministry of Purity. Or they'll conform to Ritualist ways. I don't see something as dirty as minions or vampire happening without just the straight up addition of a new profession in ritualist. Necromancer takes the ritualists job in every other culture around Tyria. They are the priests of grenth and one who give burial rights. In Cantha that's the ritualist. So its either conformity or illegal magic.

Eh. The Ministry of Purity had necromancers back in GW1, although admittedly Winds of Change also abandoned the concept some other factions had of being restricted to specific professions (for instance, the Jade Brotherhood tended towards more "upper-class" professions while the Am Fah tended more towards "survivalist" professions), so this might not be saying an awful lot. The Ministry of Purity is really more of an ultranationalist group than anything, so I don't think they'd necessarily have an objection to death magic as long as it's their death magic. Although, like the White Mantle early in Guild Wars 1, they might pretend that they don't have necromancers to anyone they're trying to make nice with.

@Lily.1935 said:Looking at the lore of Canada we might see necromancy go underground due to the Ministry of Purity. Or they'll conform to Ritualist ways. I don't see something as dirty as minions or vampire happening without just the straight up addition of a new profession in ritualist. Necromancer takes the ritualists job in every other culture around Tyria. They are the priests of grenth and one who give burial rights. In Cantha that's the ritualist. So its either conformity or illegal magic.

While I understand your thought process here, and it's 100% a fair call, I don't think the new specs have to be related to Cantha just because it's the new area being introduced. Some kind of more subtle shadow magic for these kind of lore reasons would be cool to see though!

@Lily.1935 said:Looking at the lore of Canada

Next ranger elite spec will be Mounty for sure.