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Thematic Opportunities for the Third Wave of Elite Specializations

Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭
edited March 13, 2020 in Professions

This is a big-picture analysis, not speculation or desired propositions, of missing themes with our current sets of elite specializations. These missing themes may be included in the third expansion if this expansion introduces a third set of elite specializations. It seems like the themes of current elite specializations focus and expand upon existing themes within their respective core professions, and then the elite specialization themes add a unique twist on top of the focused themes. These twist occasionally create the secondary profession flavor from GW1.

In this analysis I will not imagine new themes that do not already exist within core professions, but thematic twists in elite specializations occasionally create new themes. For example, the Druid focuses on the nature magic from the Ranger, and the Druid also adds a twist with astral-flavored abilities. Astral abilities do not significantly exist in the core professions. I will not be stretching my imagination to predict added-twist themes like the astral theme, but please consider, with twists, that elite specialization themes are not limited to the narrow thematic gaps I will identify below.

Additionally, I will not analyze missing play styles (ranged, brawler, skirmisher, etc.), roles (damage, support, utility, etc.), or weapons with each profession and their respective elite specializations. This analysis is focused purely on themes and flavor.

Mesmer

  • Chronomancer: Chaos, Manipulation, Domination, Slow, Alacrity
  • Mirage: Illusions, Dueling, Confusion, Distortion
  • Missing Themes: Inspiration, Glamour, Mantra, Lyssa's domain over Beauty
    • Potential theme may focus on Performing (Dance and Music) and/or Visual Arts

Necromancer

  • Reaper: Spectral/Soul Reaping, Spite/Darkness, Chill, Grenth
  • Scourge: Curses, Corruption, Torment, Burning, Barrier, Boon Removal
  • Missing Themes: Minions/Death Magic, Blood Magic
    • Potential theme may focus on Flesh, Disease, and/or the Corporeal

Elementalist

  • Tempest: Auras, Conjuring Storms
  • Weaver: Glyphs/Attunement Augmentations
  • Missing Theme: Arcane
    • Potential theme may focus on Arcane Magic

Engineer

  • Scrapper: Inventions, Turrets, Lightning, Superspeed
  • Holosmith: Kits, Tools, Gadgets, Explosives, Holograms
  • Missing Themes: Alchemy, Elixirs, Firearms
    • Potential theme may focus on Chemical Warfare, Transforming Matter, and/or Medicine

Ranger

  • Druid: Plants/Nature Magic, Astral Power, Melandru
  • Soulbeast: Beastmastery/Pets, Wilderness Survival, Spirits
  • Missing Themes: Skirmishing, Marksmanship, Traps
    • Potential theme may focus on Weapon/Tool Resourcefulness

Thief

  • Daredevil: Acrobatics, Martial Arts, Dodging
  • Deadeye: Shadow Arts, Deception, Critical Strikes
  • Missing Themes: Trickery/Steal, Deadly Arts/Venom/Preparations
    • Potential theme may focus on Fighting Dirty and/or Hidden Tricks

Warrior

  • Berserker: Strength, Physical, Adrenaline, Burning, Balthazar
  • Spellbreaker: Defense, Interruption, Boon Removal
  • Missing Themes: Arms, Tactics/Banners/Shouts
    • Potential theme may focus on Supplying Conjure Weapons and/or Weapon Versatility

Guardian

  • Dragonhunter: Zeal/Spirit Weapons, Distance
  • Firebrand: Radiance/Burning, Honor/Shouts, Consecrations, Quickness
  • Missing Themes: Valor, Dwayna
    • Potential theme may focus on Retaliation, Taunt, and/or Tanking

Revenant: This profession is the profession of all professions. Elite specializations do not expand upon existing Revenant themes. Elite specializations add on to existing Revenant themes. Because of this, I cannot identify missing themes for this wild card profession.

Comments

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2020

    @Brad.9730 said:

    Engineer

    • Scrapper: Inventions, Turrets, Lightning, Superspeed
    • Holosmith: Kits, Tools, Gadgets, Explosives, Holograms
    • Missing Themes: Alchemy, Elixirs, Firearms
      • Potential theme may focus on Chemical Warfare, Transforming Matter, and/or Medicine

    Yes, please, I need the new engineer elite spec to focus on chemical warfare!
    I love the chemical thematic that is included in engineer, I like to play thematically, not really going for optimal builds. And if I want to go full chemical mode, then the only choice is to go core engineer. Scrapper and Holosmith don't mesh with that theme well.

    And seeing that the steampunk mechanical parts of the engineer and the cyberpunk futuristic parts are already represented, I finally want to get some acids and other chemicals with a biopunk feeling!
    Also, I really enjoy thematics like acids, poison gases and such. But over time, alot of engineer's acid thematics got removed from the game. The only acid skill that survived is Acid Bomb from the Elixir Gun. Acidic Coating, Acidic Elixirs.... removed. I get why they did it, but I really need that alchemy elite spec after so many years.

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd really like a Mesmer e-spec to have a focus on psychological/mental/emotional manipulation, erring on the darker terrific side. Hallucinations of horror and stuff like that. Thematically speaking, Mesmer meets Necromancer.

  • Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭

    @Mogwai.4015 said:
    I'd really like a Mesmer e-spec to have a focus on psychological/mental/emotional manipulation, erring on the darker terrific side. Hallucinations of horror and stuff like that. Thematically speaking, Mesmer meets Necromancer.

    The missing core theme of Inspiration magic, which is tied to influencing emotions, definitely supports your speculation/desires for an Empath or Sadist (with a thematic splash of Domination magic) elite specialization.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    Mesmer

    • Chronomancer: Nerf
    • Mirage: Nerf
    • Missing Themes: Buff
      • Potential theme may focus on Buffs

    FTFY.
    In all seriousness this is well thought.
    I know people are dying to have a musical profession, it's not really my cup of tea tho. Would prefer something heavy CC (akin to GW1 dom mes) but your analysis makes more sense.

    The degenerate

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    Revenant is easy in fact , just add a legend that can help shiro in a power dps build because that is the only thing the rev is realy missing.(and no either glint nor kalla are realy good shiro partners for power builds just the only options abaliable )

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2020

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Revenant is easy in fact , just add a legend that can help shiro in a power dps build because that is the only thing the rev is really missing.(and no neither glint nor kalla are really good shiro partners for power builds just the only options available )

    To be honest, I'd consider both to be far better partners for a power build than a condi build. Kalla seems like a fit for condi at first glance, but then you realise that the bleed spirit is not worth the time or the energy and everything else is power. Glint is... decent, because might adds to condi and Elemental Blast gives burns and chill, but she's probably still a better fit for power than condi, and Jalis also has decent power damage through hammers.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I do agree up to thief. Thief, warrior and guardian somehow feel off.

    • I don't see a warrior supplying weapon, I'd see it work more on shouts thought. (bursts replaced by "warcry" maybe)
    • I don't see ANet pushing more retaliation onto the guardian, why the heck did you put dwayna into this? Guardian is also one of the tankiest profession in game, more of that would be unhealthy (but experience prove that ANet don't shy away from doing this kind of blunders so you might not be wrong there).
    • As for thief, I think dead eye don't fit shadow art and instead fit the idea of "preparation". DE is all about seting up your foe with the mark it's not all about using shadow. I see more of an e-spec where the thief make use of the shadows in a different fashion.
    • Mesmer seem spot on (and I actually hope that they would do something along the line)
    • Necromancer lack a few missing things like drawing conditions or self inflicted conditions.
    • Elementalist probably have more under his hand than just this, the touchs on it's glyph minions might foreshadow something.
    • Engineer seem spot on.
    • Ranger might have a less mystical e-spec and focus more on craftiness so I support what you wrote.
  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

  • Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

    I am not analyzing speculation. I am only analyzing core necromancer themes that already exist. Spirit summoning already exists with renegade, ranger, and guardian so I wouldn’t consider it to be a missing theme. If necro can only get 1 more elite spec, then it should probably be something fleshier rather than spiritual.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

    I am not analyzing speculation. I am only analyzing core necromancer themes that already exist. Spirit summoning already exists with renegade, ranger, and guardian so I wouldn’t consider it to be a missing theme. If necro can only get 1 more elite spec, then it should probably be something fleshier rather than spiritual.

    It is a missing theme. The Spirits are an aspect of necromancer lore and their ritualistic behaviors among all races is something that is very much necromancer. What you're talking about is "Existing themes" not missing in this regard. Necromancer can already summon minion and steal life, all be it not that great.

  • Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    • I don't see a warrior supplying weapon, I'd see it work more on shouts thought. (bursts replaced by "warcry" maybe)
    • I don't see ANet pushing more retaliation onto the guardian, why the heck did you put dwayna into this? Guardian is also one of the tankiest profession in game, more of that would be unhealthy (but experience prove that ANet don't shy away from doing this kind of blunders so you might not be wrong there).
    • As for thief, I think dead eye don't fit shadow art and instead fit the idea of "preparation". DE is all about seting up your foe with the mark it's not all about using shadow. I see more of an e-spec where the thief make use of the shadows in a different fashion.
    • Necromancer lack a few missing things like drawing conditions or self inflicted conditions.
    • Elementalist probably have more under his hand than just this, the touchs on it's glyph minions might foreshadow something.

    I just did a big picture analysis focusing on general specilizations and utility skill families. Hopefully the smaller detailed themes are captured within that glossed over perspective, like necro condition transfer themes being captured in corruptions or various specs. Luckily condition management fits perfectly into their missing theme of fleshiness.

    Elementalist is unusual in that their spec themes are the 4 elements, and the 4 elements have equal presence in all elite specs. This type of analysis doesn’t do much for the Elementalist, and they would require significantly more speculation. Maybe their 3rd elite spec gains an F5 for arcane mode (even though that would seem ambiguous in role/purpose and overwhelming overall). I would rather have an elite spec that sacrifices an attunement rather than gains one.

    Warrior elite spec will likely focus on their core theme of being a master of arms and weapon diversity. I’m not sure how that would manifest, but since they conjure banners and are missing a support/tactics feel, it seemed like a neat idea to conjure weapons we can’t use normally (polearms/throwing spears, greataxe, fist/claw weapons, etc.).

    Thief and Guardian were ambiguous in this type of analysis. Similarly to how all Elementalist elite specs use all 4 core spec themes of the 4 elements, Guardian core specializations are distinct in mechanics and not themes. All core Guardian themes are basically Light/Fire, Morality, and Blocking/Aegis, which are present in all Guardian elite specs. Thief is a little clearer and more distinct (Being agile, stealthy, and having dirty tricks up their sleeve). But, thief, ranger, and engineer all have thematic overlap so it is difficult to identify what thief and ranger are missing that no other professions already cover.

  • Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

    I am not analyzing speculation. I am only analyzing core necromancer themes that already exist. Spirit summoning already exists with renegade, ranger, and guardian so I wouldn’t consider it to be a missing theme. If necro can only get 1 more elite spec, then it should probably be something fleshier rather than spiritual.

    It is a missing theme. The Spirits are an aspect of necromancer lore and their ritualistic behaviors among all races is something that is very much necromancer. What you're talking about is "Existing themes" not missing in this regard. Necromancer can already summon minion and steal life, all be it not that great.

    Before GW2 launched, devs stated that Ritualist themes were being divided up between several professions (and not passed over directly to the necromancer). Hence ranger spirits, guardian spirit weapons, and necromancer life force and spectral abilities.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

    I am not analyzing speculation. I am only analyzing core necromancer themes that already exist. Spirit summoning already exists with renegade, ranger, and guardian so I wouldn’t consider it to be a missing theme. If necro can only get 1 more elite spec, then it should probably be something fleshier rather than spiritual.

    It is a missing theme. The Spirits are an aspect of necromancer lore and their ritualistic behaviors among all races is something that is very much necromancer. What you're talking about is "Existing themes" not missing in this regard. Necromancer can already summon minion and steal life, all be it not that great.

    Before GW2 launched, devs stated that Ritualist themes were being divided up between several professions (and not passed over directly to the necromancer). Hence ranger spirits, guardian spirit weapons, and necromancer life force and spectral abilities.

    They mentioned that the practice was obsolete. And was passed over to other classes, yes, including the necromancer. It wasn't excluded, which is honestly a really silly notion to suggest. The very definition of necromancy is about summoning communing with dead spirits. In history the practice of Necromancy is an evolution of the old Shamanistic rites. They have a very clear history with each other in our real world and even in game the necromancer's call on spirits. both in the story with characters like Marjory and the Scourge. To argue otherwise is to ignore this fact for some strange reason I can only imagine is some personal bias. No, The Shaman spec is widely sought after by the necromancer community. We want spirits and its thematically consistent with what we are. Go look on the Necromancer forums right now. You'll see talk of a ritualist. In posts I haven't even responded to.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Necromancer is also missing the Shaman theme. Its one of the 3 pillars of the necromancer forums. There are 3 main elite specs the community wants. The Vampire, the Minion Master and the Shaman. Necromancer is a Summoner class and its only got Scourge at the moment as a summoner spec. We do want our minions but we also want our spirits.

    I am not analyzing speculation. I am only analyzing core necromancer themes that already exist. Spirit summoning already exists with renegade, ranger, and guardian so I wouldn’t consider it to be a missing theme. If necro can only get 1 more elite spec, then it should probably be something fleshier rather than spiritual.

    It is a missing theme. The Spirits are an aspect of necromancer lore and their ritualistic behaviors among all races is something that is very much necromancer. What you're talking about is "Existing themes" not missing in this regard. Necromancer can already summon minion and steal life, all be it not that great.

    Before GW2 launched, devs stated that Ritualist themes were being divided up between several professions (and not passed over directly to the necromancer). Hence ranger spirits, guardian spirit weapons, and necromancer life force and spectral abilities.

    Ranger spirits are not an adaptation of the ritualist, these spirits already existed on rangers back in GW1.
    The engineer got some mechanics transitioned from the ritualist, tho.

    Turrets are the modernised version of the ritualist spirit mechanic (stationary minions to control an area).
    Also kits have been Anets translation of the ashes mechanic into GW2 (holding a bundle in hand, but instead of disabling your ability to attack, you get a new set of skills now).

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Revenant is easy in fact , just add a legend that can help shiro in a power dps build because that is the only thing the rev is really missing.(and no neither glint nor kalla are really good shiro partners for power builds just the only options available )

    To be honest, I'd consider both to be far better partners for a power build than a condi build. Kalla seems like a fit for condi at first glance, but then you realise that the bleed spirit is not worth the time or the energy and everything else is power. Glint is... decent, because might adds to condi and Elemental Blast gives burns and chill, but she's probably still a better fit for power than condi, and Jalis also has decent power damage through hammers.

    Well in fact it doesnt work.
    1 kalla traits are focused in condi dmg and the sb (rene weapon ) is also more condi focused .
    Glint legend is bad , plainly bad, all its boons are incredibly comon in other classes and you cant get all of the 5 either because of the huge energy drain, ant the consumes arent that good either, elements has 3 diferent tics that applye burn chill and vulne , in power you aply vulne with everithing ,and i mean everything , 2 burn stacks are like nothing and the chill is useles as you have much much better chill sources ,also the dmg is low , the dms buff is good(20%) bad luck you have nothing to pair it with , glints ult is like shiros ,a cc incredibly slow and obvious that deals low dmg , the heal on the other way is great , and the traits in glint are a mess , even when they look good and reasonable then you get to use herald and its a mess , you try to be a little greedy and you are overperformed by everything and if you want to share boons and other buffs you just dont have anything better than the other classes, shield? One world kitten , a heal and cleanse that you will probably never use and a block that not only gets you stuck but that blocks less things than other classes and does more bad than good .
    And jalis legend is full tank ,hammers are 1 skill and its dmg is low
    Just so everyone know power revenant is the class with less options in the entire game , plain and simple , in pve for power you use Impossible odds in shiro , sword2,4 and 5 , kallas ult , icerazor and citadel bombardment, and you alwais have either not enought energy to use skills due to the UNBALANCED HUGE COST or too much because THE 2 SKILLS YOU CAN USE ARE ON CD , on the condi build its diferent because you have sb and hamer/axe and you stack condis.
    So dont tell me there is any good legend in revenant for power because even shiro wich is the suposed assasin/power legend has a mediocre power dmg at most .
    Anet give rev a power legend and a power weapon (i dont even care the legend lore anymore ) and erase the current herald from the game and redo it because it isnt even funny anymore.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just so we're on the same page, which mode are you referring to?

    It's dropped off a bit at the moment, but it wasn't too long ago that Jalis was typically taken instead of Shiro for the DPS role in high-end PvE content, since the hammers often aren't that much of a DPS loss to Impossible Odds (keeping in mind that there are three hammers and they spin fairly fast, so that relatively small damage per hit adds up quickly) and Jalis offers other utility that can be useful, such as a more practical CC for breaking Defiance bars. And you don't see many builds that aren't packing Glint or Kalla - the preference is to go Shiro/Glint, Shiro/Kalla, Jalis/Glint, or Jalis/Kalla rather than Shiro/Jalis. Doesn't seem to me like Shiro is the king of power DPS quite as much as you claim.

    Your problems with Glint seem to be PEBKAC issues to me. Nothing to use Burst of Strength on? What about Shackling Wave, Deathstrike, Surge of the Mists in PvE, or even Chilling Isolation? There's plenty of opportunity to chain up high-power attacks in that period.

    Kalla you've already identified some of the benefits it has with power, but you're obviously trying to use everything rather than using your energy efficiently. Often just the ultimate is all you want from it, although Icerazor's is nice for building up Battle Scars stacks. You can make it so that even autoattacks hit like a truck, and if you build up a big stack of Battle Scars, that's where multihit attacks like Sevenshot and Unrelenting Assault kick in to convert Battle Scars into rapid power damage.

    Meanwhile, there's very little outside of Mallyx that supports conditions. Shiro, Jalis, and Ventari stances don't produce damaging conditions at all, and if you're not a renegade, mace/axe is the only weaponset you have that has damaging conditions at all outside of converting chill to torment with Abyssal Chill. Glint provides boons and a small amount of burn. Kalla... like I said, while it may look like it's condi-based, it actually works a lot better with power due to the legend skills, even when armed with shortbow (the autoattack is more power-based than condition-based, and prioritising your energy elsewhere while autoattacking is certainly a viable tactic, particularly considering the jankiness of skills 2 and 3). Nothing in the traitline really pushes you to condis either - Kalla's Fervor stacks ferocity as well as condition damage (if you don't have 100% crit chance or close to it with fury, you're doing it wrong) and the only traits that really push you into condition damage are Blood Fury and maybe Heartpiercer if you're not benefiting from the piercing.

    Believe me, power builds have a lot more viable choices than condition builds at the moment, both in terms of legend choice (Mallyx being the only legend that really lets you pump out condis, although Shiro and Glint help with providing buffs and/or vulnerability, particularly since fury contributes to condition damage if you're running Invocation) and weapons (condi has mace/axe, shortbow, and sword with Abyssal Chill in a pinch, power has literally everything else... and shortbow. And axe, for that matter - Frigid Blitz is a fairly solid power hit, albeit not quite so hefty as Deathstrike).

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    Ranger spirits are not an adaptation of the ritualist, these spirits already existed on rangers back in GW1.
    The engineer got some mechanics transitioned from the ritualist, tho.

    The mechanics have changed, though. GW1 ranger spirits affected everyone equally, friend or foe. GW2 ranger spirits, on the other hand, are selective in the way that supportive ritualist spirits were.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    Im talking about raids (high end pve) and if you need someone better to berify it gor you go to snow crows discord ant ask there
    Jalis being on par with shiro in dps means shiro needs a change
    Burst of stregth is used with sword skills for a burst , now what? You hqve to change to shiro and suddenly you spend 10 or more seconds doingAA wich is a dps loss
    Kalla icerazor spends 20 energy and has a cd of 13 secs more or less , citades costs 35 and cd of 16 or so and soulcleave is a -8 upkeep (explanation it consumes energy like a monster)
    Battle scars is a recent buff but that doesnt mean were broken now if anyone thought that.
    Also condi builds being worse than power recently? Are you in this year ? Man in all pve the condi builds are much better than de power ones , sc has 2 builds on condi for renegade , one with shiro and other with kalla and both get to 37 k of dps , you know the benches on power? Well there are not sc benches but what i got in rene with kalla was 29 at most , even if i am not great playing i know my stuf so lets asume sc could pull 32 k , now compare (that is if you can realy get to 32 k dps wich i doubt)
    Also i am triing mixing a sb on a power raid build and for the moment all i can say is that you dont loose much dps. But you dont gain either.
    Also kallas fervor? Really? You know that even in small hitboxes bosses its better to use the trait that buffs citadel bombardment instead of the one that buffs kallas fervor ? Even being a rng attack citadel does more dmg .
    Also being power renegade already gives you 100% crit rate with a minor trait so maybe you should look at your renegade again.
    In conclusion people asking for more condition options dont realy play revenant nor know the class in depth , and sorry for saing it this way but im tired of this , mace axe and shortbow are 2 percectly good sets of weapons for condi , and also mallinx and kalla or mallinx shiro allow you to apply condis perfectly fine, maybe pvp is different but talking about pve the build in need is the powee one .
    If you dont agree go to the golem and try both power and confi sc builds , when you have done both then you can complain

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Im talking about raids (high end pve) and if you need someone better to berify it gor you go to snow crows discord ant ask there
    Jalis being on par with shiro in dps means shiro needs a change

    If you look objectively at shiro's skills you see that it's mainly "speed" (movement/attack speed) and a bit of CC. If you look at jalis's skills you'll see that it's mainly damage reduction/CC prevention. Considering this, both having similar overall dps isn't an issue in my eyes since both already offer quite a similar amount of survivability (yes, hard CC and instant mobility are tools for survivability).

    Burst of stregth is used with sword skills for a burst , now what? You hqve to change to shiro and suddenly you spend 10 or more seconds doingAA wich is a dps loss

    Shiro doesn't have the monopoly of the sword just like jalis doesn't have the monopoly of the hammer.

    All in all, it feel like you are restricting yourself with prejudices in the way you play revenant which isn't a good way for you to unleash the potential of the profession. Open a bit your mind, accept that Jalis do have more skills that actually add source of damage than shiro do. In some case, when you enjoy heavy support in group setting, what shiro grant you might be less interesting than an additionnal source of damage on your end.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    First im not restricting myself .
    Second sword/sword is the only power wepon revenant has , hammer isnt usable in raid and sb is at most in trial progress for power dps.
    Also if you want to use burst of strength you have to maintain at least 3 upkeep in glint and use nature and burst for the dps with sword skills wich leaves you with almost no energy ( look at the benches and the rotations).
    Jalis has hammers upkeep and the road to deal dmg and even both together deal less dmg than IO alone with sw skills.
    Also if shiro is a movility legend more reason to have one that has dmg by itself .
    And i am talking about POWER DPS not a suport build , yes every power rev has ap and either soulcleave or nature but that is because ap is great and soul and nature juyou dont have more choices realy.
    Again to talk about raid builds go to sc and try the builds , then if you get something much better than them post it so we can see .

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    Also revenant is one of the most restrictive classes in the game , if you think otherway just play it and try different things

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    I've wanted a ronin or samurai spec for a long while and this new expansion seems right theme wise. I made a very samurai looking war but his gs,sword and bow skills don't feel samurai like except gs5. Thief has a few utilities that fit but skills not so much. Ranger in swashbuckler armor colored right looks very ronin like and has far more technical gs,sword and bow skills that would fit either samurai or ronin better than both war and thief so I vote for a ronin or samurai ranger espec that either has a symbolic asian animal as pet or a komodo with a animal print on it that comes alive in spirit form to aid in combat for a duration and during the time its active the animal print on komodo disappears, all while using a off hand sword (katana skin) or spear weapon :)

    Mirage a espec with a fan would be very cool and fitting.

    Thief off hand sword would be cool or a torch.

    War a spear or two handed battle axe with one hard cc and rest dps skills so opposite the hammer lol.

    Guard I donno spear again would be cool.

    Necro? Would necro fit a dervish or voodoo priest.

    Engie no clue for theme of expansion.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Im talking about raids (high end pve) and if you need someone better to berify it gor you go to snow crows discord ant ask there

    Raids are a somewhat distorted situation, since you can usually assume you have basically all non-unique buffs and usually the priority is just to maximise DPS. So I can see why you downplay Glint in this context... although it is worth noting that the raid group's fury and might does still need to come from somewhere. Glint does work quite well in open world meta events and competitive modes, however.

    Jalis being on par with shiro in dps means shiro needs a change

    Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. "Shiro is the only good legend for power damage" "If any other legend gets good enough to compete with Shiro, Shiro should be buffed!"

    Jalis might not be in the raid meta at the moment, but it has been in the past. That suggests that the issue is not a fundamental one of design, but of how the numbers and various synergies work out (for instance, I think Jalis was benefiting a lot from a synergy with Assassin's Annihilation, which no longer exists). The answer to such a problem is to improve the existing legends, not necessarily to invent new ones. It's a lot easier to ramp up power numbers than to add conditions to skills that didn't previously have them (and therefore changing their functionality).

    Burst of stregth is used with sword skills for a burst , now what? You hqve to change to shiro and suddenly you spend 10 or more seconds doingAA wich is a dps loss

    Like @Dadnir.5038 said, Shiro doesn't have a monopoly on sword. A common rotation with Glint/Shiro is to use the higher-energy sword offhand skills when in Glint, ideally after a Burst of Strength, so you can save energy for Shiro skills, primarily Impossible Odds, when you switch to Shiro.

    Also condi builds being worse than power recently? Are you in this year ? Man in all pve the condi builds are much better than de power ones , sc has 2 builds on condi for renegade , one with shiro and other with kalla and both get to 37 k of dps , you know the benches on power? Well there are not sc benches but what i got in rene with kalla was 29 at most , even if i am not great playing i know my stuf so lets asume sc could pull 32 k , now compare (that is if you can realy get to 32 k dps wich i doubt)

    I said condi options were more restrictive than power. Those that exist are doing pretty well in the current meta... but there are less ways to build a condi rev than a power rev that are actually viable, especially if you define "viable" as something other than "maximum DPS in raid scenarios".

    Let's look at the legend options:

    Shiro is power. There are some incidental benefits to a condi build, such as quickness boosting the rate of condi application from a weapon, but the direct damage is all power-based.

    Jalis is also power, albeit a little more support-oriented. No damaging conditions, all of the direct damage that Jalis does is power, and Retaliation is also power-based. Jalis skills do nothing to support condition damage, serving purely as utility for a condi-oriented build, but can add to power damage.

    Mallyx is, obviously, condi... or is he? Banish Enchantment and Call to Anguish both have decent power coefficients, and only apply damaging conditions through Abyssal Chill. EtD is obviously condi-based, but the rest of the kit you could probably use on a power rev if you wanted to... but taking Corruption pretty much commits you to condi.

    Ventari is pure support and doesn't directly contribute to damage at all (but does supply Alacrity).

    Glint has a bit of burn through Elemental Blast, but Burst of Strength purely synergises with power, and Chaotic Release is pure power damage (in PvE, it's no damage in competitive nowadays). Fury also benefits power more than condi (especially with Rampant Vex being removed) and might stacks could be made to benefit power over condi if you're running Notoriety.

    Kalla has Icerazor and Soulcleave for power DPS, Citadel Bombardment is a bit of a hybrid that leans towards condi, and Razorclaw tickles.

    So... a power build can choose between Shiro and Jalis for cores, and Glint and Kalla are both leaning more towards power. Which you actually choose depends on what precisely you need. Condi... well, Mallyx is pretty much stapled on, and then it's a least-bad question of Shiro, Glint, or Kalla. You can run Jalis if you really need the toughness and Stability, but my experience has been that Glint still offers more survivability in PvP while adding more offensively.

    Now, let's look at weapons:

    Sword(/sword) is a melee-oriented power DPS set. Because it offers a decent amount of chill, it can act as something of a hybrid with Abyssal Chill.

    Mace is a 'skirmishing'-style condi weapon - the autoattack is melee, but the short recharge of the fire field gives it some standoff capability.

    Axe offhand, as previously discussed, is something of a power/condi hybrid.

    Staff is a hybrid between a defensive power melee weapon and a support weapon. Because of this, it can be expected to have lower DPS than sword. However, importantly, staff still has decent power coefficients, while offering no conditions at all. So it's actually a reasonable second set for power to get some extra breakbar or defensive options. For condi, though... you take it because you need a defensive weaponset and you have no better choices.

    Hammer is a power-oriented ranged weapon. Because it's ranged, it can be expected to have lower DPS than sword/sword, because ranged usually does less damage than melee. It's pretty much useless for condi builds, since the only damaging condition you can get out of it is through the chill on Phase Smash. It's also buggy at the moment, but that's a reason to fix it, not to replace it.

    Shortbow is, as previously discussed, power/condi hybrid.

    Which means that, ultimately, everything but mace is fairly well suited to power builds, even if sword/sword is optimal for raid conditions where you stack on the boss and DPS is all that really matters. With condi builds, you've basically got mace (and axe), shortbow (if renegade) and then you're into least-bad-option or this-isn't-going-to-do-any-damage-but-I-need-the-utility picks.

    Which tends to mean that "condi" revs are themselves typically hybrids. Now, in PvE, condi usually means Viper's anyway, so you wouldn't notice this, but in competitive modes, you usually see some power stat in there somewhere, because odds are one of your weapons is still sword or staff and that's going to do basically no damage without some power investment.

    Also i am triing mixing a sb on a power raid build and for the moment all i can say is that you dont loose much dps. But you dont gain either.

    To be expected. As noted above, in raid conditions where you just stick to the boss, the melee set is generally going to give the best DPS. I think ranger was an exception to this for a while when greatsword and sword were both more defensive weapons than they are now, but this has changed.

    Also kallas fervor? Really? You know that even in small hitboxes bosses its better to use the trait that buffs citadel bombardment instead of the one that buffs kallas fervor ? Even being a rng attack citadel does more dmg .

    Not sure what the relevance of this is? You get Kalla's Fervor naturally as long as you're running renegade, and my point was that it buffs both condition damage and power damage (through Ferocity). So its existence doesn't push you to either.

    Also being power renegade already gives you 100% crit rate with a minor trait so maybe you should look at your renegade again.

    +33% from the minor, +53% with fury, +73% in PvE if you really go all in and add Roiling Mists, and it's not exactly hard to get a base of 27%. Mind you, it can still be worthwhile to build up a bit more than that in case you have to dodge sometime or if you're ever caught without fury (unlikely in raid conditions, I know). It's almost as if this was exactly what I was talking about when I said "if you don't have 100% crit chance or close to it with fury, you're doing it wrong" - heaven forbid that anyone assumes that since we're talking about renegade, a renegade minor doesn't need to be explicitly called out.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Engie no clue for theme of expansion.

    I came up with an idea that would feed nicely in Cantha's lore.
    In my opinion, the new engineer elite spec should be Plaguedoctors

    In Cantha's history, there has been a magical disease called the "plague". It was turning people into monsters of enormous power, the "afflicted", and when they died they detonated in an explosion of poison and putrefaction. I think it would make sense that some scientists back then tried to find a way to deal with it, using chemicals and concoctions. And even if they didn't succeed (the disease got defeated by banishing Shiro Tagachi), they could have found some offensive ways to use their studies.

    And in Kaineng, were organised crime was common, I think it could be that this knowledge found a new purpose by finding creative ways to get rid of enemies. And so the Plaguedoctor caste evolved from a profession meant to heal people to experts of chemical warfare.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    Ok some points first .
    Its true that jalis was a good shiro partner for power builds in the oast but now it is centered around dmg reduction wich is something it does great but its dmg is very low and thats why if shiro is on par to jalis it means it does too low dmg.
    Also when i talked about burst of strenght i think i said how glint part of the rota was , if i didntvits my mistake , but it works more or less this way : you need to have at least heal , ult and either nature or other upkeep to get the dmg buff from the trait , then you use burst of strenght and the consume from elements , then you use sword 4,5 and2 to get the most dmg out of it wich leaves you with low energy and a lot of energy drain , also herald cantvtake charged mists if he wants to get 100 crit chance so you allwais have at most 50 energy , in this case to keep up the dmg you can try to consume ult and wait till you can use burst before swaping wich means a lot of AA or change to shiro and do AA anyway so burst realy doesnt help that much.
    Also inthe mater of weapons i agree and disagree .
    I agree that hammer shouldnt have as much dps as swords because its ranged but there are cases of ranged weapons that are usefull maintaining dps while waiting for the bursts , dragonhunter for example or even reaper wich doesnt have too much dps can use its axe to a certain level but hammer is incredibly slow in all its attacks and its dmg isnt enought to compensate .
    Axe offhand has power dmg but it is too low to even consider it a power hybrid ( one skill is movility and the other is a torment attack )
    Mace is condi through and through
    Staff is a suport weapon , cc heal and a dmg acording to its utility
    Shortbow is the only who could be caled a hybrid and even then all its attacks work much better appliing condis than direct dmg , not for nothing it is used in all condi raid builds .
    Now Imposible odds works apliing a second hit (not sure if that hit aplies condis too but it is possible looking at the numbers ) aniway kalla has a bigger dmg output than shiro in condi builds (i dont use that build but if kalla is better must have a reason)
    About the 100percent crit for rene , in raids you usualy have allwais fury and you dont usualy need to evade ( yes sometimes you have to but usualy you can either jump mechanics or move out with quickness , i didnt intend to talk ill or something but even taking as little precision as posible i have 117% crit chance with spotter and banners so you have a bit of place for errors .
    And about the kallas fervor the fact is that the dmg % it gives to condi is much higher than 150 ferocity and i think it is something important to know more so when a trait that increases it to 250 is overperformed by a skill that has a lot of rng in it like citadel bombardment.
    Nowbwith this said i dont want to talk ill to anyone but right now condi builds , even if they dont have a lot of options it has good options that work realy fine while power is underperforming a lot and is much more restricted because only sw/sw works fine and only sb could be helpfull in very certain cases in wich you have to use ranged yes or yes , again if someone thinks condi is worse than power the beat way is doing benchmarks by yourself and showing the results (on that note its true that power is better now but it is still one of the lowerst dps builds ) .

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What I predict:

    Warrior
    Role: controlling support
    Weapon: Staff, melee AoE control Theme: focus, battle trance martial arts

    Guardian
    Role: (competitive focussed) DPS
    Weapon: mace and sword offhand or daggers
    Theme: purging, punishment, anti condition, dervish style cleansing mechanics

    Revenant
    Role: enhancing core legends
    Weapon: Greatsword
    Theme: Razzah, avatar of the mists, enhancing core legend roles

    Engineer
    Role: Support and condition DPS
    Weapon: difficult to tell. Could be: daggers, staff, torch or scepters
    Theme: alchemy, chemical science, amalgams

    Ranger
    Role: Tank, defensive support, barrier application, AoE control, area denial
    Weapon: Maces, Hammer, Shield or scepters
    Theme: Warden, more plant/ earth based magic, maybe totems or transforming your pet into a totem for casting.

    Thief
    Role: control, condition DPS, maybe support
    Weapon: sword offhand
    Theme: Assasination, damage mitigation, assassin

    Necromancer
    Role: Healer, boon support
    Weapon: sword
    Theme: blood or spirit magic, ritualist, hemomancer

    Mesmer
    Role: Healer, boon support, control
    Weapon: shortbow or daggers
    Theme: performance, dance or music, inspiration, bard/minstrel

    Elementalist
    Role: single target ranged DPS
    Weapon: pistol
    Theme: magitech, arcane, gadgets, spellslinger

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Engineer
    Role: Support and condition DPS
    Weapon: difficult to tell. Could be: daggers, staff, torch or scepters
    Theme: alchemy, chemical science, amalgams

    I think axe and mace are also possible weapons for such an elite spec.

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    [...]

    Elementalist

    • Tempest: Auras, Conjuring Storms
    • Weaver: Glyphs/Attunement Augmentations
    • Missing Theme: Arcane
      • Potential theme may focus on Arcane Magic
        [...]

    I wish tempest was the aura spec, and they would finally put the aura-share trait in there and put the heal on aura trait on water. This would open up a lot of opportunities for all ele specs. But anyway...

    I see more as:
    Elementalis

    • Tempest: Stay longer in attunements, longer attunement CD in exchange to large and long-lasting AoE effects. AoE effects in general (shouts/overloads/WH fields)
    • Weaver: Shoter attunements, fast swapping and dual wielding attunements. Focus on fast moving through attunements to keep bonuses and using extra skills (dual skills). Skirmishing focus with evasions and barrier.
    • Missing themes: No attunements, 5th Attunement.
      • Potential theme: 5th attunement as arcane, spellslinger with dual pistols.
      • Potential theme: No attunement, weapon-swap instead of 20 attunement skills. You still have attunements, but they dont have unique skills, instead become just bonuses and give skills special effects. Elemental martial artists with special weapon imbues and longbow with elemental imbued arrows.

    I've made a post with the longbow/weapon swap idea a while back here.

  • Heika.5403Heika.5403 Member ✭✭
    edited March 15, 2020

    **Mesmer **
    Role: Buffer and Invocator
    Weapon: Warhorn or torch mainhand.

    A mesmer with enchantments that buff ( no boon based) his capabilities and their allies too , debuffs, hexes and a new type of invocations affecting the area around the mesmer that let him to perform disruptive attacks.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Staff is a suport weapon , cc heal and a dmg acording to its utility

    I don't want to keep hijacking the thread, but I think you're completely missing the point on this one:

    Staff is more support/defence-oriented than sword/sword, to be sure, but its offensive output is not actually that much below sword in damage output. If you're playing a power build, you can switch to staff to get a defensive boost or to use Surge of the Mists for a CC (and, in PvE, a damage spike) and not lose too much on your DPS output. If you're playing a condi build, though, staff has literally zero ability to dish out damaging conditions - it doesn't even have a skill that applies chill to trigger Abyssal Chill - so you're hitting like a wet noodle until you can swap back.

    Meanwhile, in competitive modes, you end up pretty much forced to bring staff on condi builds anyway, because unlike raids, in competitive modes you need some form of either disengaging or surviving when the enemy focuses on you. If you look at metabattle, every revenant build for competitive modes uses staff because you need the defence, apart from condi heralds who use some combination of mace, axe, MH sword, and shield (yes, shield - for all it gets maligned, it becomes a less bad option to get some defence in). For a power revenant, this isn't a problem, because power coefficients on staff are still pretty good. For condi revenants... they're forced to take it to have some survivability, but it's a bad weapon.

    I get the feeling that your viewpoint is based entirely around raids, but I'm looking across the entire game, including competitive modes, and overall, power revenant has a lot more reasonable choices, and a lot less cases of having to take less-bad options, than condi rev. You're putting down Jalis as "low damage" (compared to Shiro), but I was running Jalis/Glint fairly successfully last season, and the hammers certainly do contribute to damage (and in PvP, are a lower energy drain than Impossible Odds) while also significantly adding to durability. Maybe the optimised power rev setup for maximum damage in raid conditions does less damage than the optimised condi rev setup for maximum damage in raid conditions, but power rev, broadly speaking, has more opportunity to adapt.

    Now, this isn't necessarily a call for the next rev elite spec to be condi-based. That's what they tried with Renegade, and honestly, it's a bandaid solution. Revenant needs a second condition-based, or at least power/condi hybrid, weapon in its core set, or the problem is just going to keep coming up again.

    But neither do I think that the next legend should be based around maximising power DPS in raid conditions as you seem to think. Raids aren't the entire game.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Engineer
    Role: Support and condition DPS
    Weapon: difficult to tell. Could be: daggers, staff, torch or scepters
    Theme: alchemy, chemical science, amalgams

    I think axe and mace are also possible weapons for such an elite spec.

    Yeah that's true.
    But engi got 2 melee weapons already for e-specs.
    I took those weapons because they can be a bit more caster ranged weapons.
    Maybe shortbow could also work nicely.

  • ApaWanka.2698ApaWanka.2698 Member ✭✭✭

    Engi have a low pool of weapon, so even if my esthetic would be ranged staff as Druid style.

    For gameplay would be better a MH weapon to give us as many combinations as possible because we only have one MH (Pistol) but we have 2 OH (Pistol and Shield), so another main hand could give us 4 potential sets while working handed weapon would give us only 3 combinations.

  • Murshid.9854Murshid.9854 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:
    Ranger

    • Druid: Plants/Nature Magic, Astral Power, Melandru
    • Soulbeast: Beastmastery/Pets, Wilderness Survival, Spirits
    • Missing Themes: Skirmishing, Marksmanship, Traps
      • Potential theme may focus on Weapon/Tool Resourcefulness

    I 100% agree with your ideas for ranger, funny thing yesterday I wrote something kinda similar cause I also think that traps need to be introduced and also I think LB and SB should have new skills thats only available through this e-spec.

    I understand that a lot of people dream about hammer ranger but that will only benefit the WvW zergs players, PvE/PvP players will stick with soulbeast if next gen e-spec focus on hammer and melee range AoE weapon damage.

    Refuge from the State of Dota

  • For Mesmer, I'd like to see the devs look into the theme of Lyssa's duality. It's the only god who is represented by two separate beings, so they could do something with that. Maybe have 2 open slots for illusions, and the third slot taken by a permanent illusion, and shatter skills happen around it? Or maybe leave all 3 illusion slots, but just add a permanent clone as part of the theme of the duality of lyssa.

    Just a couple thoughts.

  • Eddy.7051Eddy.7051 Member ✭✭

    @Ara the Elegant.6825 said:
    For Mesmer, I'd like to see the devs look into the theme of Lyssa's duality. It's the only god who is represented by two separate beings, so they could do something with that. Maybe have 2 open slots for illusions, and the third slot taken by a permanent illusion, and shatter skills happen around it? Or maybe leave all 3 illusion slots, but just add a permanent clone as part of the theme of the duality of lyssa.

    Just a couple thoughts.

    Your idea combined with my speculation of music/art/glamour result in The Duet.

  • VocalThought.9835VocalThought.9835 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2020

    Here's some of my ideas.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1236276#Comment_1236276

    Warrior-
    1) Berserker with a Torch, Rage skills and Berserker mode which gives new Berserker Bursts abilities.
    2) Spell Breaker with dual Daggers, Meditations, and Full Counters mechanic that absorbs and counter attacks surrounding foes.
    *3) Warlord with Melee Staff, hired Recruits, and Marks to aid allies on the battlefield.
    *4) Champion with a main hand Shield, Punishment abilities that weakens or leaves foes vulnerable, and Protection mechanic, gives a barrier and tethers to allies, to absorb damage.
    *5) Ravager with dual Pistols, Traps, and Ravage Burst mechanic which provides more of an area effect damage.

    Guardian-
    1) Dragonhunter with Long Bows, Traps, and the ability turn their Virtues into Physical Constructs.
    2) Firebrands with a main hand Axe, Mantras, and changes their Virtues in to Tomes of several spells.
    *3) Archon with an off hand Sword, glyphs, and the ability to attune to a Virtue at a time.
    *4) Summoner with a War Horn, Summon mythical creatures for aid, and convert Virtues into Virtuous Pets
    *5) Mystic with main hand Focus, Arcane Spells, and Virtuous Burst abilities.

    Revenant-
    1) Hearld with a Shield, conjuring Dragon abilities, and able to tap into the Dragon Legend to buff them and their allies.
    2) Renegade with Short Bow, able to summon spiritual combatants, and harness a Legendary Warrior's ability to command ancient forces and charging your allies for battle.
    *3) Overlord with dual Scepters, able to summon minions from the mist, and Over Charge their connection to their attune legend.
    *4) Mist Walker with dual Pistols, the ability to use the mist offensive and defensively, and Merge Legend abilities.
    *5) Rift Slayer with a Great Sword, and able to cast dimensional spells, and the timely ability to open or close a dimensional gate.

    Ranger
    1) Druid with a Staff, glyphs, and the ability to turn into a Celestial Avatar
    2) Soulbeast with a main hand Dagger, combat stances, and the ability to take in the spirit of their pet granting them animalistic abilities.
    *3) Shaman with a off hand Focus, summoning Totems that buff them and their allies, and having the ability to merge into their pet, having all of their pets' abilities.
    *4) Warden with an off hand Shield, summoning herds and commanding nature to do their bidding, along with controlling 2 pets at the same time.
    *5) Wanderer with a Hammer, having shouts to stifle their foes, and can summon random pets for a brief moment of time.

    Engineer
    1) Scrapper with a Hammer, having mechanical Gyros that place wells at their destruction, and a personal gyro that revive an ally or finish a foe.
    2) Holosmith with a main hand Sword, the ability to conjure hard light, and the ability to Exceed their normal light abilities before they overheat.
    *3) Machinist- with a main hand Mace, they can create gear for them and their allies, and their new mechanic allows them to use their gears to assemble into a Battle Mech.
    *4) Technomancer with a Great Sword, and Physical Cybrotronics abilities, and Mana that alters their Cybrotronics.
    *5) Med Tech with an off hand Focus, Preparation skills, along with Biomatrix mechanic for buffing them and their allies.

    Thief
    1) Daredevil with a Melee Staff, Physical Skills for attacking foes, and offensive and defensive Dodge abilities.
    2) Deadeye with a Rifle, cantrips for manipulating foes, and a Deadeye Mark and Malice mechanic to cause extra damage to marked targets.
    *3) Inquisitor with a Torch, Survival Skills to allude foes or buff abilities, and an Intuition mechanic that uses the initiative as a bones to combat.
    *4) Reaver with dual Maces, summoning their Thieves Guild to aid in combat, and their Steal abilities a Counter in combat.
    *5) Shadow Mage with an off hand Focus, Arcane Shadow spells, and can summon a Shadow Thief to steal from a distance.

    Elementalist
    1) Tempest with a War Horn and Shouts to command the weather and elements, and the ability to Overcharge their attunements, cause mass devastation in their wake.
    2) Weaver with a main hand sword, combat Stances to manipulate the elements, and the ability to control two separate elements at the same time.
    *3) Magus with a main hand Focus, able to cast Consecration Spells, and the ability to Sub-attune, granting the benefits of other elements, while no longer able to swap attunements.
    *4) Rune Master with a Long Bow, able to cast Elemental Wells, and Mark the ground with elemental symbols when they attune, buffing allies and damaging foes.
    *5) Arcanist with an off hand Scepter, the ability use Mantras, and attune to a 5th Element "the Arcane"

    Mesmer
    1) Chronomancer with a Shield, Wells to control time, and a new mechanic Continuum Split, so they can go back in time.
    2) Mirage with a main hand Axe, Deception spells, and a Mirage Cloak that allows them to evade attacks without even moving.
    *3) Enchanter with a Short Bow, enchanting Shouts, with their Shatter Skills having new abilities, making their clones Enchantments, buffing the allies close by instead of damaging foes.
    *4) Psionic with a main hand Pistol, Sabotage skills work like Cantrips, and they have only have one Clone at a time but can be treated as 3 clones in 1.
    *5) Conjurer with dual Daggers, that can Summon illusionary beasts that later turns to clones, and conjure 5 clones instead of 3, but the shatter ability only effects foes around the caster.

    Necromancer
    1) Reaper with Great Sword, Shouts that frighten their opponents, and a Reaper Shroud for close combat.
    2) Scourge with a Torch, Punishment abilities that torment and corrupt, and summons Shades to damaging foes close by.
    *3) Diabolist with a Hammer, able to cast Tricks that damage foes, and can transform into a Demon Shroud.
    *4) Death Stalker with a Rifle, Traps, and Stalking Spirits mechanics that can revive an ally or finish a foe.
    *5) Warlock with a off hand Shield, Glyphs, and a new mechanic that turns their life force into a Burst depending on their main hand weapon.

  • Diultu.5897Diultu.5897 Member
    edited May 15, 2020

    @VocalThought.9835 said:
    Here's some of my ideas.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1236276#Comment_1236276

    Warrior-
    1) Berserker with a Torch, Rage skills and Berserker mode which gives new Berserker Bursts abilities.
    2) Spell Breaker with dual Daggers, Meditations, and Full Counters mechanic that absorbs and counter attacks surrounding foes.
    *3) Warlord with Melee Staff, hired Recruits, and Marks to aid allies on the battlefield.
    *4) Champion with a main hand Shield, Punishment abilities that weakens or leaves foes vulnerable, and Protection mechanic, gives a barrier and tethers to allies, to absorb damage.
    *5) Ravager with dual Pistols, Traps, and Ravage Burst mechanic which provides more of an area effect damage.

    Guardian-
    1) Dragonhunter with Long Bows, Traps, and the ability turn their Virtues into Physical Constructs.
    2) Firebrands with a main hand Axe, Mantras, and changes their Virtues in to Tomes of several spells.
    *3) Archon with an off hand Sword, glyphs, and the ability to attune to a Virtue at a time.
    *4) Summoner with a War Horn, Summon mythical creatures for aid, and convert Virtues into Virtuous Pets
    *5) Mystic with main hand Focus, Arcane Spells, and Virtuous Burst abilities.

    Revenant-
    1) Hearld with a Shield, conjuring Dragon abilities, and able to tap into the Dragon Legend to buff them and their allies.
    2) Renegade with Short Bow, able to summon spiritual combatants, and harness a Legendary Warrior's ability to command ancient forces and charging your allies for battle.
    *3) Overlord with dual Scepters, able to summon minions from the mist, and Over Charge their connection to their attune legend.
    *4) Mist Walker with dual Pistols, the ability to use the mist offensive and defensively, and Merge Legend abilities.
    *5) Rift Slayer with a Great Sword, and able to cast dimensional spells, and the timely ability to open or close a dimensional gate.

    Ranger
    1) Druid with a Staff, glyphs, and the ability to turn into a Celestial Avatar
    2) Soulbeast with a main hand Dagger, combat stances, and the ability to take in the spirit of their pet granting them animalistic abilities.
    *3) Shaman with a off hand Focus, summoning Totems that buff them and their allies, and having the ability to merge into their pet, having all of their pets' abilities.
    *4) Warden with an off hand Shield, summoning herds and commanding nature to do their bidding, along with controlling 2 pets at the same time.
    *5) Wanderer with a Hammer, having shouts to stifle their foes, and can summon random pets for a brief moment of time.

    Engineer
    1) Scrapper with a Hammer, having mechanical Gyros that place wells at their destruction, and a personal gyro that revive an ally or finish a foe.
    2) Holosmith with a main hand Sword, the ability to conjure hard light, and the ability to Exceed their normal light abilities before they overheat.
    *3) Machinist- with a main hand Mace, they can create gear for them and their allies, and their new mechanic allows them to use their gears to assemble into a Battle Mech.
    *4) Technomancer with a Great Sword, and Physical Cybrotronics abilities, and Mana that alters their Cybrotronics.
    *5) Med Tech with an off hand Focus, Preparation skills, along with Biomatrix mechanic for buffing them and their allies.

    Thief
    1) Daredevil with a Melee Staff, Physical Skills for attacking foes, and offensive and defensive Dodge abilities.
    2) Deadeye with a Rifle, cantrips for manipulating foes, and a Deadeye Mark and Malice mechanic to cause extra damage to marked targets.
    *3) Inquisitor with a Torch, Survival Skills to allude foes or buff abilities, and an Intuition mechanic that uses the initiative as a bones to combat.
    *4) Reaver with dual Maces, summoning their Thieves Guild to aid in combat, and their Steal abilities a Counter in combat.
    *5) Shadow Mage with an off hand Focus, Arcane Shadow spells, and can summon a Shadow Thief to steal from a distance.

    Elementalist
    1) Tempest with a War Horn and Shouts to command the weather and elements, and the ability to Overcharge their attunements, cause mass devastation in their wake.
    2) Weaver with a main hand sword, combat Stances to manipulate the elements, and the ability to control two separate elements at the same time.
    *3) Magus with a main hand Focus, able to cast Consecration Spells, and the ability to Sub-attune, granting the benefits of other elements, while no longer able to swap attunements.
    *4) Rune Master with a Long Bow, able to cast Elemental Wells, and Mark the ground with elemental symbols when they attune, buffing allies and damaging foes.
    *5) Arcanist with an off hand Scepter, the ability use Mantras, and attune to a 5th Element "the Arcane"

    Mesmer
    1) Chronomancer with a Shield, Wells to control time, and a new mechanic Continuum Split, so they can go back in time.
    2) Mirage with a main hand Axe, Deception spells, and a Mirage Cloak that allows them to evade attacks without even moving.
    *3) Enchanter with a Short Bow, enchanting Shouts, with their Shatter Skills having new abilities, making their clones Enchantments, buffing the allies close by instead of damaging foes.
    *4) Psionic with a main hand Pistol, Sabotage skills work like Cantrips, and they have only have one Clone at a time but can be treated as 3 clones in 1.
    *5) Conjurer with dual Daggers, that can Summon illusionary beasts that later turns to clones, and conjure 5 clones instead of 3, but the shatter ability only effects foes around the caster.

    Necromancer
    1) Reaper with Great Sword, Shouts that frighten their opponents, and a Reaper Shroud for close combat.
    2) Scourge with a Torch, Punishment abilities that torment and corrupt, and summons Shades to damaging foes close by.
    *3) Diabolist with a Hammer, able to cast Tricks that damage foes, and can transform into a Demon Shroud.
    *4) Death Stalker with a Rifle, Traps, and Stalking Spirits mechanics that can revive an ally or finish a foe.
    *5) Warlock with a off hand Shield, Glyphs, and a new mechanic that turns their life force into a Burst depending on their main hand weapon.

    The warden with two pets would be nice! Maybe have some more of a tanky/support role sharing damage with the two pets. Beastmastery has a taunt already. Instead of switching pets you have both active and utilize F1-F5 to control the pets. If they want to make it more balanced, they could have the pets active but the pets bar and abilities are for one pet only allowing you to swap between the two pets bars with a short cooldown. 🤔 Idk but sounds like a lot potential.
    Could also have a stacking order (pets will stand next to their master) for your pets, giving the shared damage buff but when not stack the buff is not active (balance). This would also allow for positioning in raids.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    >
    Warrior elite spec will likely focus on their core theme of being a master of arms and weapon diversity. I’m not sure how that would manifest, but since they conjure banners and are missing a support/tactics feel, it seemed like a neat idea to conjure weapons we can’t use normally (polearms/throwing spears, greataxe, fist/claw weapons, etc.).

    I picture the warrior using utility skills a bit like engineer's kit, a "weapon" kit skill that replace your current 1 to 5 skills to a specific weapon skill (like a lance, greataxe, crossbow, etc). I would totally play that. Nice suggestion btw.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Edge.8724 said:

    @Brad.9730 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    >
    Warrior elite spec will likely focus on their core theme of being a master of arms and weapon diversity. I’m not sure how that would manifest, but since they conjure banners and are missing a support/tactics feel, it seemed like a neat idea to conjure weapons we can’t use normally (polearms/throwing spears, greataxe, fist/claw weapons, etc.).

    I picture the warrior using utility skills a bit like engineer's kit, a "weapon" kit skill that replace your current 1 to 5 skills to a specific weapon skill (like a lance, greataxe, crossbow, etc). I would totally play that. Nice suggestion btw.

    Just my opinion, but kits should not be given to other classes than the engineer.

    Engineer was paying alot to get access to kits. The class has the smallest weapon choice pool of every class (just 3 core weapon choices: pistol, shield, rifle), also the weapons are pretty weak compared to the weapons of other classes. And then engineer also can't switch weapons.
    A warrior, which actually has the biggest weapon pool of every class, should not get access to kits, as long as these kits are not made that weak that you will never actually use them.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Man I can definitely feel the CANTHAN vibe thru a lot of these ideas er.....