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  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Whatever happened to the Mist Warrior who would use whatever means possible to insure victory in battle? Calling heroes and villains and bending them to their will to decimate on the Battlefield?

    If the legend needs to be Cantha themed what about Kanaxai, Reiko or the complex Emperor Usoku. Why always Togo when his legacy will be remembered for his death.

    Kanaxai, a demon with dual axes who terrorized the Luxons.

    Reiko, the leader of the Ministry of Purity and pioneer of many of the mesmer's modern magics.

    Usoku, the Dragon Emperor that united the Canthan people under one banner and exiled the Tengu in his Nationalistic conquest.

    I don't think we need it to be Canthan though. We could go with Svanir too.

  • Imagine vizu (she who struck shiro down so the kurz and luxon heroes could finish him off)legend have shiro as 2nd and they could also talk

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think ritualist will be a guardian elite specialization. After all, guardians are ritualist/monk hybrids in lore, and the revenant has no connection to ritualists whatsoever, aside from the blindfold and a misplaced PvP title.

    Also, renegade already has some sort of totem/turret gameplay that would clash against classic ritualist spirits, so even less reasons for it.

  • So its settled it will be Balthazar with gs-mid range, that focus on heavy burn condi dmg and summoning Kormir that will just stand there and take all our glory.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    I think ritualist will be a guardian elite specialization. After all, guardians are ritualist/monk hybrids in lore, and the revenant has no connection to ritualists whatsoever, aside from the blindfold and a misplaced PvP title.

    Also, renegade already has some sort of totem/turret gameplay that would clash against classic ritualist spirits, so even less reasons for it.

    To be fair, there's more to the revenant/ritualist connection than that. Fluffwise, they're both about communing with entities in the Mists. The distinction is that the ritualist operates like a scholar, usually summons multiple relatively weak spirits at a time, and keeps them at arm's length while mostly fighting at range with spells. Revenants are a soldier profession that mostly fights in melee, channeling some of the strongest legendary entities they can control in order to empower their own fighting capabilities.

    The key thing to note here is that, at least from a mechanical perspective, revenant was never meant to be a ritualist replacement.

    Engineer is. This is, honestly, beyond reasonable doubt to anyone who's read through all the material available on their development. Ritualist was originally conceived as a way to have an engineer playstyle in a low-technology setting, and engineer turrets and weapon kits are essentially the GW2 equivalent of spirits and urns. People could argue over how well the engineer serves as a replacement for the ritualist, and ArenaNet generally denied that it was a replacement per se, but it was clearly intended to be the translation of the ritualist playstyle into GW2 mechanics.

    If you chase down the archives of the old forum, though, you'll find pretty much exactly where the revenant came from. It's essentially a dervish playstyle with ritualist-like fluff. People had identified that dervish was the one GW1 playstyle (apart from dedicated healer, which back then was something that was never expected to come back) that hadn't transferred into GW2, but dervish's god-aligned fluff was something that didn't fit into multiracial GW2. However, they'd also noticed that the ritualist's Mists communion fluff had been left out of the GW2 professions. So people were asking for a kind of "spirit warrior" which was basically a dervish, but instead of channeling god avatars, it would channel powerful spirits into itself to gain their strengths.

    Sound familiar? The revenant isn't exactly what people were envisaging, but it's close enough. It's anyone's guess whether ArenaNet was actually influenced by what people were saying on the forums or whether it was simply a matter of convergent thinking, but it's pretty much a dervish that gets its power from the Mists rather than the gods.

    The problems with the 'make revenant into ritualist' drive is that it's just going to disappoint everyone involved. There's no way I can see that "ritualist" could be fit into a single legend in a satisfying fashion if Kalla hasn't already done so. Spirits were the core of what ritualist had, and getting the full spread of what was in ritualist just doesn't seem possible when all you've got to play with are a weapon or two, five legend skills, and a function skill or three... all on a core profession which is based on spending half its time on another legend which is melee-oriented (unless it's Ventari). I've seen people acknowledging that the spirits are in Kalla and asking for something urn-based, but... what would urns be, precisely? The most obvious interpretation for something that replaces your weapon and which boosts some skills in GW1 would be something like a kit or a conjure, but I really don't see ArenaNet making a legend which brings multiple conjures or kits. Another interpretation would be that urns are something that gives you a boost while you're holding them and has a stronger effect when dropped, but that's already been done with Glint's facets. To me, a ritualist elite specialisation would work much better applied to a profession whose core already has some playstyle similarities to ritualist, such as necromancer or guardian, than to revenant which, for all the fluff is similar, is very different in playstyle.

    Meanwhile, it would be squandering the unique potential that revenant has to do something unique that doesn't fit into any of the professions. The other professions are all limited within the bounds of humanoid magic, technology and training. Revenants have the potential to draw inspiration from basically everything for a legend, so why stick to humanoids with normal professions when you don't have to?

  • @Lonami.2987 said:
    I think ritualist will be a guardian elite specialization. After all, guardians are ritualist/monk hybrids in lore, and the revenant has no connection to ritualists whatsoever, aside from the blindfold and a misplaced PvP title.

    Also, renegade already has some sort of totem/turret gameplay that would clash against classic ritualist spirits, so even less reasons for it.

    Rev is a inverted ritualist rather than binding spirits you bind their power

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    and the revenant has no connection to ritualists whatsoever, aside from the blindfold and a misplaced PvP title.

    ...aside for being pretty much a ritualist tribute?

    I still think there will be no playable ritualist in gw2 -revenant doesn't really need it (but kiiind of still could get it) and if they add it to another class, at this point it would just be pretty stupid.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Gotta say, I'm sceptical about Togo's prospects as a legend both from a thematic perspective and a skills perspective.

    From a thematic perspective... what makes Togo so legendary. The existing legends are all tied to some major event during which they were a focal point in history - Jalis represents the end of the dwarfs and the Great Destroyer, Shiro represents the Jade Wind, Ventari represents the birth of the sylvari (it's not coincidence that all his skills revolve around the Tablet), Mallyx represents Nightfall, Kalla represents the overthrow of the shamans, and Glint represents well where do I even start?

    Togo's impact is... simply put, it's not on that level of significance. The Tengu Accords started to fall apart less than a decade after his death, and never applied to the Sensali to begin with. Apart from that, his main accomplishment is... being part of fighting Shiro. Shiro's the one whose impact was enough to generate a legend within the Mists - Togo simply played a part in one of the final chapters.

    From a skills perspective - what legend skills would Togo bring? We can assume his direct attack spells would go onto the weapon(s) he'd be associated with, but after that? There's a heal skill... which would be similar to Soothing Stone if translated into GW2. There's an energy management skill, which would probably be more likely to go into F2 than 7-10. Dragon Empire Rage could possibly be an elite, but after that, you're basically looking at spirits, and Kalla already does that. So I'm not convinced that Togo actually brings much to the table which which to establish his own playstyle. Certainly, I'm really not convinced we need a second bite at the spirits cherry right after Kalla.

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    If they give us Scepter they need to give us another offhand as well, preferably Focus, since neither Axe or Offhand Sword would synergize well with a Scepter mainhand. Plus it would be fitting and thematic to get both Scepter + Focus for a Rit spec at the same time. The precedent is set as well, with Spellbreaker getting both main and offhand dagger simultaneously, which are effectively different weapons in terms of code and usage.

    I'm not entirely convinced. Axe and sword both feel similar to guardian offhands, in that they can be used at range but you still get the most out of them if you get up close and personal. Axe in particular has fairly long-range skills, but one of them is a gap-closer. I could see it working, especially if scepter is balanced as more of a 'skirmishing' weapon that rewards getting close occasionally rather than being a completely stand-off weapon like hammer.

    I read every word you wrote. I'm new to rev, even though I'm a GW2 launch player and to be honest I don't know much of what is going on in the story and lore. From what I read you told the story more compelling and interesting than the way it's played out in game. I would like to hear your thoughts on what you believe could be the upcoming new legends and why.. partially because it's like reading well thought out mini stories. XD

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Butter me up the other side and pan-fry me, Vekk!

    I have a few posts scattered around, but now that you mention it, it could well be an interesting project to figure out a set of possibilities and consolidate them into a series of articles. 'Bout time I got back onto the wagon of writing my own rather than editing and mentoring.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant; Revenant is basically a demon hunter (WoW) and A ritualist is basically a Warlock (WoW) The two use similar practices but in totally different regards. And in the lore when the minsitry of purity went on their merry way culling the populace and going full on modren china on the canthans they began systematically culling the necromancers AND ritualists much like the messmers and the assassins. These four had one thing in common. Messmers and Assasins worship lyssa, they ended up joining together to create an order of what name we do not know. The ritualists and the necromancers did the same thing; So going based upon this if either of these orders still exist in cantha they are VERY likely to be the in lore place where theses classes get their E-specs from.

    Revenant lore wise is the strongest profession, it channels the mists themselves which is infinite, sentient and all knowing while ever changing. It is a force beyond cosmic reality or even mortal comprehension and is always fluctuating in its nature; ANYTHING is possible in the mists. (Talk to a mist warrior, about WvW which is cannon btw and they tell you about the mists. As does fluff from guild wars 1) The mists and what they represent goes well beyond common necromancy, which is basically what ritualist followed. The distinction in ritualism and necromancy is very minute and honestly, in guild wars 1 the argument was made that ritualist was just a blue necromancer as the theme was the same.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist
    It states above that the Ritualist at one point did indeed channel the mists in a more pure form, but this art was lost to them. They once were the eldest "class" in the lore and were one of the first practitioners of magic; But there is a pretty big distinction between what they did and what revenants do. Ritualist would pull spirits from the mists to aid them, and use the ashes of the fallen ancestors to buff/hinder enemies. They for all intents and purposes punched holes to what I assume is grenths realm to let spirits free, the god realms are indeed in the mists and are a part of the mists. But the primordial teachings they knew were lost to time LONG before the events of factions took place, I believe the Envoy's have something to do with Ritualism in the world of tyria but it was never established.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer
    The description of the necromancer clearly references calling upon the spirits of the dead, again their utilized them in different ways but their dark magic was similar in scope to the ritualists. Ritualism is like the lighter, less dark and gruesome form of necromancy where necromancy bends the soul and the dead to the will of the caster the ritualistic teachings showcase them allowing the spirits and the power of the dead to flow through them. They are a current, not a cage and this is why the ritualist animations are so different to the necromancer. Necromancers in guild wars 1 when casting struggled, clawed and gnawed the air with their motions and it was very jagged and rough with little in the way of subtlety. ritualists on the other hand were very much, all about flowing freely and almost dancing to the rhythm of their casting as they called upon their ancestors. It showcased respect, and the call to aid not the desire to control and demand they follow your will or else they'd suffer.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necromancer
    "The unique mechanic of the necromancer was originally based around collecting souls from enemies and using them to summon minions."~ Trivia section
    The above mentions how the ORIGINAL version of the mechanic for necromancers were to use the souls of the enemies you slew, to summon minions. This was changed to death shroud at some unforeseen time. But the frame-work was there, it existed and I believe they were originally supposed to be both the ritualist and the necromancer at the same time; I Feel like they originally were intended to be this way and it just never came full circle. Another Example I can link is the ORIGINAL gameplay showcase for the necromancer, which ALSO holds ritualist appearance, and themes as it show-cases what the ORIGINAL version of necromancer almost was back in 2012.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenant
    "In folklore, a revenant is someone who returns from a long absence, often from death or in a supernatural way."~ Trivia section
    "Revenant shares many similarities with the Guild Wars Factions profession Ritualist."~ Trivia section
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/
    "The story of how charr tribune Rytlock Brimstone became the first revenant hasn’t yet been told, but at the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, he’ll have brought the knowledge of how to obtain that power to the world of Tyria, making it somewhat common knowledge."~Within the Text of that thread
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

    The final link is from Roy the creator of the revenant as a class, and no where in there does he mention nor did he ever mention the ritualist exclusively. While similarities exist between the classes that is to be expected; Necromancers, Dervishes and Ritualists all had some similarities in theme around them as they all either had to do with the six (Grenth) or could channel the power of the dead. Remember too that A necromancer/dervish/ritualist could in theory secondary profession one another and make something akin to a revenant. However and a big caveat to this is that RYTLOCK in cannon is the first, original and in HoT only revenant that existed and exists. As stated by the lore and creators of the class itself; He was and is the only one who utilizes this profession in the way that it is used and is the creator of the profession. As Glint taught him how but he applied those teachings to his martial skill, and thus we have a mist warrior/mist being. Revenants channel POWERFUL legends whom shaped the world so much, that the mists remembered and took notice of them. They had done something worthy of being remembered, the spirits in which a Ritualist summons or the ashes they use are of significance to them and only them. It is their ancestors and by that standing they are NOT legend worthy; Shiro was such a big deal that he became a legend so much so that the mists encapsulated all of him good, bad and ugly in one memory. But he also ascended and was purged, to return to the mists in a bonus quest to nightfall so Im unsure of if the shiro we channel is a memory or not. In-fact we truly dont know if we are calling upon the true shiro/mallyx or not as both became or were mist beings prior. Glint, Jalis and ventari are all mortal beings who died and their essences was encapsulated in a memory and thus their theme is as it is due to that idea of what the mists itself remembered or viewed them as. The mists are sentient and channeling people through the mists, is more like channeling what the mists believes them to be which may or may not be who they truly are. (Or even what they were for that matter, shiro being tied explicitly to jade DESPITE him never once using it outside of his death when the jade winds took the jade sea and the echovald forest.)

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Warlock

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demon_hunter

    The above is a detailed explanation of origin, and what each of these classes are in WoW. They suffer much the same stigma that Ritualist and Revenant suffer from; Revenant came out around the same time as the demon hunter. Both Revenant and Demon hunters wear blind-folds so saying a Revenant is a Ritualist due to a blind fold, well then a revenant is a demon hunter and a ritualist is a demon hunter. Because all of them share the same appearance in that regard, but note that revenants power spec plays extraordinarily like the demon hunters DPS spec..... and Condi (Mallyx specifically) plays very much like the tank spec. I believe that Revenant is more based off of the competition than it was off of old fluff, I think they decided that the revenant was going to go the direction it did because of demon hunters becoming playable. Liam O'brien was in the studio recording the tengu voice for our guild hall tengu; I HIGHLY DOUBT he didn't talk about working with illidan and the demon hunters becoming playable to Roy. I also find it highly hilarious that Shiro's coloring is green and linked to jade and has all the same mechanisms that Havoc Demon-hunters have. I shall link in the below text area. I will say this I've mained revenant for a long time now, Claiming its not an "Edge lord" class is ludicrous because it can VERY MUCH BE THAT. "Now you shall know true ultimate POWAH!" Coming from Mallyx and all his dark Edgy-ness and even Shiro is kind of Edgy. The only facets of Rev that don't contain edge-lord worthy stuff is ventari, Jalis, glint. Kalla has her own edgy shenanigans she pulls, So claiming that people CANT want more of a side to revenant that A-net hasn't Explored? Clearly one does not know SQUAT about the class, the lore around it, and what it is and why it exists. If they wanted a ritualist they'd of made it a ritualist, they could of at any time and Kalla is as CLOSE to a rit as I believe we will ever get and for good reason. Its time to give Revenant some more Edge, not necessarily the greatsword brand of edge but we need villains and anti-heroes. We've explored the lighter side of rev for a while now.... give us some darkness... and give us some destruction.

    Havoc which is a bunch of single target, high mobility blitz gameplay with more life-leech

    Vengeance, which is life leech. Leaps, buff corruption and tons of AoE

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant;

    Ritualist =/= Revenant as much as Ritualist =/= Necromancer, Ritualist =/= Engineer or Ritualist =/= Guardian.

    So sure, "opinions are wrong" -all of them, apparently. If that was your point then I agree and I guess I can only repeat what I said before: ritualist theme has been spread between multiple classes in gw2 (and I assume we can all agree about this much?), which is why it "fits" as many classes as it actually doesn't. At this point I think introducing ritualist as a whole new espec or class would be stupid and the only reason to do it would be to play on the player sentiments.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant;

    Ritualist =/= Revenant as much as Ritualist =/= Necromancer, Ritualist =/= Engineer or Ritualist =/= Guardian.

    So sure, "opinions are wrong" -all of them, apparently. If that was your point then I agree and I guess I can only repeat what I said before: ritualist theme has been spread between multiple classes in gw2 (and I assume we can all agree about this much?), which is why it "fits" as many classes as it actually doesn't. At this point I think introducing ritualist as a whole new espec or class would be stupid and the only reason to do it would be to play on the player sentiments.

    this is likely going to be the nostalgia expansion, just like PoF tried to be. So I assume there is going to be a lot of this going around and going on. This is the "Incase of X break glass!" Expansion... or at least thats how this and how the expansions reception thus far feels. Honestly though it needs to succeed because if It doesn't I dont know how concrete the future of this game will be~

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant;

    Ritualist =/= Revenant as much as Ritualist =/= Necromancer, Ritualist =/= Engineer or Ritualist =/= Guardian.

    So sure, "opinions are wrong" -all of them, apparently. If that was your point then I agree and I guess I can only repeat what I said before: ritualist theme has been spread between multiple classes in gw2 (and I assume we can all agree about this much?), which is why it "fits" as many classes as it actually doesn't. At this point I think introducing ritualist as a whole new espec or class would be stupid and the only reason to do it would be to play on the player sentiments.

    this is likely going to be the nostalgia expansion, just like PoF tried to be. So I assume there is going to be a lot of this going around and going on. This is the "Incase of X break glass!" Expansion... or at least thats how this and how the expansions reception thus far feels. Honestly though it needs to succeed because if It doesn't I dont know how concrete the future of this game will be~

    Well, for now the fact is that Anet could bend multiple classes in whichever way they want to fit ritualist theme/playstyle and whatever they add to the game automatically becomes correct whether you/we like it or not. GW1 "lore-wise" ritualist is ritualist. GW2 "lore-wise", none of the existing classes are ritualists at the moment, except there are "hints" at some classes, which you disregard simply because... "you want it otherwise".
    Unless you can dig something up from gw2 that clearly states otherwise, then I'll stand corrected.

    Linking anything WoW(or any other nonGW2 game)-related is 100% irrelevant btw, I'm not even watching those vids ;p

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant;

    Ritualist =/= Revenant as much as Ritualist =/= Necromancer, Ritualist =/= Engineer or Ritualist =/= Guardian.

    So sure, "opinions are wrong" -all of them, apparently. If that was your point then I agree and I guess I can only repeat what I said before: ritualist theme has been spread between multiple classes in gw2 (and I assume we can all agree about this much?), which is why it "fits" as many classes as it actually doesn't. At this point I think introducing ritualist as a whole new espec or class would be stupid and the only reason to do it would be to play on the player sentiments.

    this is likely going to be the nostalgia expansion, just like PoF tried to be. So I assume there is going to be a lot of this going around and going on. This is the "Incase of X break glass!" Expansion... or at least thats how this and how the expansions reception thus far feels. Honestly though it needs to succeed because if It doesn't I dont know how concrete the future of this game will be~

    Well, for now the fact is that Anet could bend multiple classes in whichever way they want to fit ritualist theme/playstyle and whatever they add to the game automatically becomes correct whether you/we like it or not. GW1 "lore-wise" ritualist is ritualist. GW2 "lore-wise", none of the existing classes are ritualists at the moment. Unless you can dig something up from gw2 that clearly states otherwise, then I'll stand corrected.

    There is nothing about the ritualists unfortunantly as far as lore from guild wars 2 goes. Likely because they never thought they'd be taking us to cantha when the game went through its stages in life... Im not about to say that any class can't be Rit. But I don't feel Like revenant can an will encapsulate the build, nature and aspects of the class in a spec as well as not have it struggle for supremecy with kalla. We dont need another E-spec for support or a ranged weapon tied to an E-spec we need ranged options for core, a condi and maybe another power considering how bad hammer is. I feel like both guardians and necromancers can do it far better; As they have more options and likewise I feel like it could be the darker option for guardian which they need or the lighter option for necromancer which they also need. But Honestly Kalla is good enough and fills that gameplay loop on her own; Her orders are Ashes and the spirits are well spirits? I mean its not hard to see. They even said renegade was the "Ritualist themed E-spec" when talking about it in guild chat.

    <=== not relevant but is the trailer and showcases its intent

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Anniversary_Flatbow_"Oracle"

    ^ They also gave ritualist a flat-bow which is in essence the way that renegade uses shortbow, it has a long range for a short-bow with fast moving attacks. It scales with their spawning power (Spirit summoning) This paired with the fact that this came out AFTER Renegade tells me that this is the tie in with renegade and ritualist... so here is your ritualist guys. The Renegade.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    This threat is still raging and there still doesn't seem to be a consensus.

    Ritualist is a bad fit. Quite a few see that and its obvious to most of us. Not just that but Togo is not an interesting character to summon. He has little to no barring in the story and of the characters who should be summoned I'd suggest a Villain.

    Not sure why anyone would expect any "consensus" here -there won't be one, because it's all personal opinions anyways.
    Like based on your posts, you most probably think ritualist is "bad fit for rev" simply because you've always wanted it for necro and won't agree with anyone stating otherwise no matter what they say. This thread is just a copy of some previous ritualist threads, I highly doubt anything "so fresh, important and convincing" will suddenly be brought up that it brings everyone to one side.

    Well the opinions are wrong. Ritualist =/= Revenant;

    Ritualist =/= Revenant as much as Ritualist =/= Necromancer, Ritualist =/= Engineer or Ritualist =/= Guardian.

    So sure, "opinions are wrong" -all of them, apparently. If that was your point then I agree and I guess I can only repeat what I said before: ritualist theme has been spread between multiple classes in gw2 (and I assume we can all agree about this much?), which is why it "fits" as many classes as it actually doesn't. At this point I think introducing ritualist as a whole new espec or class would be stupid and the only reason to do it would be to play on the player sentiments.

    this is likely going to be the nostalgia expansion, just like PoF tried to be. So I assume there is going to be a lot of this going around and going on. This is the "Incase of X break glass!" Expansion... or at least thats how this and how the expansions reception thus far feels. Honestly though it needs to succeed because if It doesn't I dont know how concrete the future of this game will be~

    Well, for now the fact is that Anet could bend multiple classes in whichever way they want to fit ritualist theme/playstyle and whatever they add to the game automatically becomes correct whether you/we like it or not. GW1 "lore-wise" ritualist is ritualist. GW2 "lore-wise", none of the existing classes are ritualists at the moment. Unless you can dig something up from gw2 that clearly states otherwise, then I'll stand corrected.

    There is nothing about the ritualists unfortunantly as far as lore from guild wars 2 goes. [...]

    Exactly. Well, except for one "extremely in your face" (and more "meta" than "lore", I guess) fact that revenant literally has "ritualist" title.

    I also agree that overally rev would fit rit the most, but if you remember some of the previous ritualist threads, it appears that nothing matters if it doesn't support "x side's" opinion about it (and then the same person is somehow surprised that "there still doesn't seem to be a consensus."). Duh, one of the arguments people apparently use now (unless I misunderstood something?) is something along the lines of "revenant is already too close to rit, so it should be another class". Oof. At this point someone like that should stop pretending s/he's looking for any "consensus", because all it is about currently is "my opinion > your opinion!".
    Rit is kind of spread among few classes and whatever anet does, goes. So until we actually hear/see something official about it... Sure, figuring out connections between the classes/specs can be fun, but I wouldn't pretend we're looking for any "consensus" here, which is why I wrote that post -"everything is just opinion anyways"- in the first place :p

    I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if it's not clear (because I'm not sure where I wrote that), my opinion about rit in gw2 is pretty much:
    At this point it shouldn't be added as playable spec/class at all > Rev espec >>> anything else would be kind of stupid.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 I don't think it's true that ALL of the ancient Ritualist techniques were lost. From memory of the source, it states that the old ritualist teachings were combined with the magic released from the Bloodstones, and that there's little information remaining about exactly how the ancient ritualists operated - but this seems to be more of a case of some specific aspects falling out of favour because the newly released magic was more efficient to use. Those practices that were worth keeping were kept, those that were rendered redundant by greater availability of magic fell out of favour.

    When it comes to the Ministry of Purity persecuting assassins, mesmers, ritualists, and necromancers? Gonna have to call "citation please" on that one. Profession was one of the few things the Ministry didn't persecute on, and there's a mesmer and a ritualist among the significant characters in that arc. They'd have no qualms about persecuting organisations (including profession-based organisations) that oppose them, but they welcomed members of all professions into their own ranks.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Theme wise rev hs already a lot of ritualistic vibes.

    I would like to see razzah as the new "legend" but not for the utility skills but rather for the class mechanic.
    Channeling razzah will enhance your chosen legend and grants you new weapon skills depending on the legend that razzah channels.
    Utilities should be glyphs that grants you a different effect depending on the legend currently invoked.

    It would give a new twist to the rev and new explorable builds with old legend combinations.

    And GS as a ranged single target power weapon is something rev misses weapon wise. It could also fill a damage supoort role which would be interesting.