Canthan Lore with Future elite specs — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Canthan Lore with Future elite specs

Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

With each new expansion Arena net has expanded on the lore for what the professions provided and how they worked. For HoT there wasn't much lore beyond some loose connections with Herald to Rytlock and Druid since we were going into the Maguuma Jungle. The justification was minimal, but that was honestly okay since this was there first expansion and they where getting their feet wet. With PoF each elite spec had some more lore justification for what it is. Its themed to the desert with Scourge, Firebrand, spellbreaker having the strongest connections to the story of the region and even the weakest lore connection elite spec, renegade, still was rich with lore of some kind.

So what I would like to do is look at the lore of Cantha and surmise what we can get from it. Cantha is rich with history and has been very isolated from the rest of tyria for a long time. And last we heard there was the rise of Emperor Usoku exiling non human races from Cantha. The Ministry of Purity which was formed in GW1 from the fall out of the epidemic that plagued Cantha during the return of Shiro Tagachi. There goals are fairly clear in favor of aiding the people of Cantha, but in the early years they had schisms in the factions with Nationalistic ideas which had been spearheaded by Minister Reiko Murakami a powerful mesmer at the time. This point in history goes to show us just how much the future was impacted by plague and how much it left a scare on their nation. If we're going back to Cantha, it'll be very likely the Emperor, whomever that may be, and the Ministry of Purity will be the enemies we will be facing.

With this in mind we can begin to piece together at least one and possibly two Elite specs we might see, or at least there themes. The Mesmer from what I can see will have magics that relate to the Ministry since the founder was a prolific Mesmer and She would likely be hailed as a hero in the story while the GW1 heroes would more likely have been forgotten or slandered for her death. Her magics in the fight mostly involved her clones, the precursor to GW2, but she was also able to manipulate conditions as well as being extremely disruptive with her attacks. What this will translate to is a bit hard to say given her skills in game. Possibly better clone control but we'll have to see. I'd like to see what everyone else comes up with in this regard. But I defiantly believe that mesmer will be tied to the Ministry.

I also believe that the Guardian will be tied to the Ministry as a "Purifier" sounds right up their ally. What more it could do is difficult to say as we already have a burning elite spec, but an Anti condition type elite spec might be something we can look forward to.

Going further into the lore we have the Assassin which is unrelated to the Ministry, or at least apparently so. This is long requested of the Thief players and there is a strong lore president for it in game, but its not something I'm personally too convinced by.

The second profession of the lore was the Ritualist and honestly there are some serious conflicts it has with the necromancer. In the early game of GW1 the Ritualist would find the necromancer to be a nuisance as they seemed to find them to be unclean as they would reanimate corpses as opposed to their own form of death rituals. This could be a major point in the lore as Purity and Nationalism might either force necromancy underground or force them to conform with the Ritualist's means of summoning. Its hard to say, but this conflict is something to take note of and can be speculated on.

Elementalist is next on my list. One of the rites during the Factions which was needed to see the spirits was the Mission "Closer to the stars". A ritual in which the players must defeat the celestial bodies to achieve Cantha's version of Ascension. There were four of them each with a tragic tale. And my suspect is the elementalist will attune to them, although this might be a loose connection as they're celestial creatures, not elemental creatures, I could see it as a means to give the elementalsit that 5th element we all have been salivating for for so long. I'll admit this is a very loose connection.

Engineer has really nothing to go on unfortunately. The best we can possibly go with is ideas from real world history and real myths. Such as the real world history that the Chinese were the first recorded nation to use gunpowder. And the Chinese fireworks are quite famous. Beyond this the Super sentai warriors of Japanese pop culture could be a means of inspiration. Its super flimsy I know, but Engineer is all about looking forward and an isolationist and Nationalistic nation like Cantha just wouldn't be a nation that would look forward.

Although both the Kurzicks and the Luxons have been absorbed into the Canthan Empire and likely much of their culture was either absorbed or lost I still feel some could have survived. This is where I see the likelihood of the Ranger to get its elite spec from. Kurzicks had some odd magics with Juggernauts which i could see the ranger latching onto. Although If the Kurzicks and Luxons do still exist I strongly suspect that they'll likely be gangs in which the Ministry will be trying to quell.

Warrior is kinda a big question mark for me as I don't see them as much more than the bulk of the Canthan standing military force so its not something I would be able to really say what they could or would be like. Sorry warrior players.

Last we have the Revenant. Unfortunately for the revenant there is no possible way for their mist magic practices to get to cantha without some rift shenanagans going on.If we are to see any Revenants in Cantha, they'll likely be foreigners to the land and seeking new magics, or possibly uncovering history of the past. Many have suggested Togo as a possible legend, but I'm not so convinced. In terms of Canthan history his history might be mixed or even destroyed as he aided a treaty with the Tengu which would have state propaganda hatred for so he might very well be demonized. While Emperor Usoku would be an extremely strong candidate as a potential legend. or perhaps a Tengu hero we haven't seen. The revenant is likely to be somewhat Ronin inspired given their class characteristics of being a brooding shonen protagonist.

So lets discuss lore! Where could be go, what could be the inspiration. Lets have fun with this!

Comments

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2020

    For the engineer, I still think that a spec featuring chemical warfare would be the best.

    And I could even imagine a lore connection for them. One major point in the history of Cantha has been the existence of the plague. A magical disease that was spreading among the humans, forging their flesh in new grotesque ways. And after their death, every "afflicted" as they were called would detonate in a toxic cloud of poison and disease.

    While it has been a magical phenomenon, I could still imagine that there have been quite some scientists around back when all this happened. Looking for a scientific solution for the problem.
    Which could have lead the way to a new caste of scientists focusing on diseases, concoctions and diverse chemicals.

    And maybe, even if these scientists were not able to find a cure for the plague back then, they actually found some offensive uses for the things they studied.
    Especially with the high amount of organised crime in Cantha, I could imagine that this knowledge could grow more and more meaningful over time. Alchemy can be a powerful weapon and really terrifying, if used correctly.

    And so, a new class of experts have been born. The Plaguedoctors.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    For the engineer, I still think that a spec featuring chemical warfare would be the best.

    And I could even imagine a lore connection for them. One major point in the history of Cantha has been the existence of the plague. A magical disease that was spreading among the humans, forging their flesh in new grotesque ways. And after their death, every "afflicted" as they were called would detonate in a toxic cloud of poison and disease.

    While it has been a magical phenomenon, I could still imagine that there have been quite some scientists around back when all this happened. Looking for a scientific solution for the problem.
    Which could have lead the way to a new caste of scientists focusing on diseases, concoctions and diverse chemicals.

    And maybe, even if these scientists were not able to find a cure for the plague back then, they actually found some offensive uses for the things they studied.
    Especially with the high amount of organised crime in Cantha, I could imagine that this knowledge could grow more and more meaningful over time. Alchemy can be a powerful weapon and really terrifying, if used correctly.

    And so, a new class of experts have been born. The Plaguedoctors.

    I didn't think about that. Chemist being connected to the Ministry of purity. When you put it that way it should have been obvious. Haha. Ministry of Purity is going to be major in the next expansion for sure.

  • Interesting Canthan specializations might go as follows:

    Gladiator (Warrior) - uses Warrior styled survival skills to reflect and spike damage. Weapon Melee Trident
    Kirin (Guardian) - creates wells and ramps up tanking ability but deals very little damage. Weapon Main Hand Focus
    Ritualist (Revenant) - creates urns and other summoned objects. Weapon Greatsword

    Chu Ko Nu (Engineer) - focuses on creating moving mechanical constructs (minions basically). Weapon Crossbow (why not)
    Sea Dog (Ranger) - basically an aquatic themed class with aquatic styled skills. Weapon Melee Harpoon Gun/Rifle
    Oni (Thief) - focuses on punishment magics; perhaps rework the concept of hexes. Weapon Off Hand Sword

    Outcast (Mesmer) - The influences of Kanaxai drives their magics to new levels of unpredictability, perhaps even true mimicry. Weapon Double Daggers
    Saltspray (Elementalist) - Kuunavang has instructed Canthan Elementalist in the raw power of the Jade Sea. Weapon Off Hand Torch
    Oracle (Necromancer) - As shepherds of the dead Oracles are able to teleport both themselves and their enemies. Weapon Off Hand Axe

    Just some general thoughts off the top of my head. Either way I am excited to see what the developers bring us. :-)

    "There is little love for those of my kind in this place, yet I am here to help save them all. To those who matter, actions speak louder than words and my actions shall echo across this city for eternity until all recognize the honor of the Tengu race." ~ Talon Silverwing

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drgnfly.5812 said:
    Interesting Canthan specializations might go as follows:

    Gladiator (Warrior) - uses Warrior styled survival skills to reflect and spike damage. Weapon Melee Trident
    Kirin (Guardian) - creates wells and ramps up tanking ability but deals very little damage. Weapon Main Hand Focus
    Ritualist (Revenant) - creates urns and other summoned objects. Weapon Greatsword

    Chu Ko Nu (Engineer) - focuses on creating moving mechanical constructs (minions basically). Weapon Crossbow (why not)
    Sea Dog (Ranger) - basically an aquatic themed class with aquatic styled skills. Weapon Melee Harpoon Gun/Rifle
    Oni (Thief) - focuses on punishment magics; perhaps rework the concept of hexes. Weapon Off Hand Sword

    Outcast (Mesmer) - The influences of Kanaxai drives their magics to new levels of unpredictability, perhaps even true mimicry. Weapon Double Daggers
    Saltspray (Elementalist) - Kuunavang has instructed Canthan Elementalist in the raw power of the Jade Sea. Weapon Off Hand Torch
    Oracle (Necromancer) - As shepherds of the dead Oracles are able to teleport both themselves and their enemies. Weapon Off Hand Axe

    Just some general thoughts off the top of my head. Either way I am excited to see what the developers bring us. :-)

    Warrior: Hate to burst bubbles. But Gladiator combat wasn't really a thing in Cantha.
    Guardian: Kirin is a creature in Cantha. They're protective spirits, so them invoking the idea might work.
    Revenant: Revenant is a new profession and extremely disconnected with Cantha and NEcromancer already has ties to Ritualist in the lore.
    Engineer: Not sure where you got this idea behind Engineer. But there's no lore bases for any sort of automiton.
    Ranger: You're thinking of the Luxons, but that doesn't really follow entirely. Rangers have some options with Both Luxon and Kurzicks through both the Turtle training and the Juggernauts.
    Thief: Oni again is a demon that exists in cantha. Cantha was known for its Shadow magic and assassins. This is where we get the infamous skilll Shadow form from. Even the Oni used shadow magic.
    Mesmer: Mesmers are very well integrated into Canthan society and would never be outcast from it especially since one of their most important legends in history is Reiko, the founder of the Ministry of Purity.
    Elementalist: Not sure about the name, but getting teachings from Kuunavang is an interesting take. I do like that.
    Necromancer: I know WP mentioned Oracle, but that is like, Literally a Revenant name. I mean they Have Herald which is often along those same lines... Honestly how WP can get these two professions so backwards is super frustrating. But You're basically describing in what it does as something new but its just Scourge again. Except they teleport enemies. Which is a Mist magic thing that Revenant used to do. Again, I'm not sure why people keep mixing the two up so bad. Plus the lore puts the Necromancer directly in conflict with Ritualist practices and since Ritualists are religious leaders its either conformity or going underground. They would be more likely to be your "outcast" or just the Ritualist.

    I hate to be like "No no no no no." ... But the we have to understand how their culture has been molded by these professions and their roles in society. Not just what sounds cool. I would love if Thief had some references to the Oni. That would be great. I'd love some Kuunavang references. But we also have to think about what is culturally significant.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drgnfly.5812 said:
    Interesting Canthan specializations might go as follows:

    Gladiator (Warrior) - uses Warrior styled survival skills to reflect and spike damage. Weapon Melee Trident
    Kirin (Guardian) - creates wells and ramps up tanking ability but deals very little damage. Weapon Main Hand Focus
    Ritualist (Revenant) - creates urns and other summoned objects. Weapon Greatsword

    Chu Ko Nu (Engineer) - focuses on creating moving mechanical constructs (minions basically). Weapon Crossbow (why not)
    Sea Dog (Ranger) - basically an aquatic themed class with aquatic styled skills. Weapon Melee Harpoon Gun/Rifle
    Oni (Thief) - focuses on punishment magics; perhaps rework the concept of hexes. Weapon Off Hand Sword

    Outcast (Mesmer) - The influences of Kanaxai drives their magics to new levels of unpredictability, perhaps even true mimicry. Weapon Double Daggers
    Saltspray (Elementalist) - Kuunavang has instructed Canthan Elementalist in the raw power of the Jade Sea. Weapon Off Hand Torch
    Oracle (Necromancer) - As shepherds of the dead Oracles are able to teleport both themselves and their enemies. Weapon Off Hand Axe

    Just some general thoughts off the top of my head. Either way I am excited to see what the developers bring us. :-)

    Can we PLS stop trying to give engineer another minion type?

    Engineer already has turrets, they tried to give us another minion type with gyros which failed until they finally reworked them into wells like people suggested for years.
    Engi doesn't need more minions, give us other elite specs. Preferably something that focuses on chemicals, since that thematic could use a bit more love.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Drgnfly.5812 said:
    Interesting Canthan specializations might go as follows:

    Gladiator (Warrior) - uses Warrior styled survival skills to reflect and spike damage. Weapon Melee Trident
    Kirin (Guardian) - creates wells and ramps up tanking ability but deals very little damage. Weapon Main Hand Focus
    Ritualist (Revenant) - creates urns and other summoned objects. Weapon Greatsword

    Chu Ko Nu (Engineer) - focuses on creating moving mechanical constructs (minions basically). Weapon Crossbow (why not)
    Sea Dog (Ranger) - basically an aquatic themed class with aquatic styled skills. Weapon Melee Harpoon Gun/Rifle
    Oni (Thief) - focuses on punishment magics; perhaps rework the concept of hexes. Weapon Off Hand Sword

    Outcast (Mesmer) - The influences of Kanaxai drives their magics to new levels of unpredictability, perhaps even true mimicry. Weapon Double Daggers
    Saltspray (Elementalist) - Kuunavang has instructed Canthan Elementalist in the raw power of the Jade Sea. Weapon Off Hand Torch
    Oracle (Necromancer) - As shepherds of the dead Oracles are able to teleport both themselves and their enemies. Weapon Off Hand Axe

    Just some general thoughts off the top of my head. Either way I am excited to see what the developers bring us. :-)

    Can we PLS stop trying to give engineer another minion type?

    Engineer already has turrets, they tried to give us another minion type with gyros which failed until they finally reworked them into wells like people suggested for years.
    Engi doesn't need more minions, give us other elite specs. Preferably something that focuses on chemicals, since that thematic could use a bit more love.

    I personally do want Minions on Engineer eventually, but for this expansion I've seen some great arguments for a chemist spec and the prospect of using a Shortbow or Longbow on Engineer with Unique arrows sounds like a lot of fun. Plus the idea of Engineers in Cantha being a part of the Ministry of Purity and fumigating places just makes a lot of lore sense to me.

    So yeah, Chemist.

  • Drgnfly.5812Drgnfly.5812 Member ✭✭
    edited March 18, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I hate to be like "No no no no no." ... But the we have to understand how their culture has been molded by these professions and their roles in society. Not just what sounds cool. I would love if Thief had some references to the Oni. That would be great. I'd love some Kuunavang references. But we also have to think about what is culturally significant.

    I'm not married to these ideas, I was just spit balling. Mostly I tried to consider where we left Cantha and what might have happened in the past 250 years. Here are couple of points to defend my thoughts.

    I could see Canthans engaging and developing ritualized combat as a means of entertainment after centuries of isolation and subjugation on the other side of the world. Gladiator Defense was a very popular skill from the original Guild Wars, though granted it was from the Prophecies campaign. However, I feel that Cantha could possibly have now become the backwater nation due to the isolation.

    Kirin are associated with wise rulers in East Asian cultures. And as these creatures also made it into Factions I felt it appropriate to see them in a Canthan expansion. My thought was that they might be portrayed as the mirror image of the Firebrand. Akin to the same way that Spellbreaker can be seen as the mirror image of the Beserker.

    The Revenant from a generalized lore concept is very ritualistic in nature. The summoning of ashes and urns are more akin to Revenant channeling than Necromantic reanimation. As well the concept of spiritual communing and the manipulation of those spirits would fit well into Revenant mechanics and could provide a new and exciting utility.

    Chu Ko Nu for the Engineer is probably a bit of a stretch, but it does carry a strong Asian engineering element to it. IRL the Chu Ko Nu was the repeating Chinese crossbow. I could see the Engineer getting a bow weapon with mechanical developments. A manipulation of chemicals would be a fine idea but treads thematically close to the elixirs. Mechanical constructs did exist in the Factions campaign and I could see them being further developed.

    With the Sea Dog I was envisaging the Luxon influences on the Ranger class. When I played Factions I remember that I really enjoyed that particular Faction. Though I admit in my suggestions I might I have recalled heavier on Luxon culture than on Kurzick. I could see the Juggernauts and the White Tigers of the Echovald Forest becoming a Ranger theme as well. But I honestly am hoping to get my pet Reef Lurker back. :-p

    I feel like with the Thief that the immediate desire will be to jump to Assassin. I was trying to meld that concept with Shadow Magics and so I recalled the Oni. Y'all will recall the Oni were big on using Shadow Shroud which was almost always a source of frustration for my heavy enchantment builds that I often played. So I was thinking that the Oni and the dark alleyways of Kaineng would have allowed Thieves to develop into a sort of Shadow Mage.

    The Outcast is actually conceived from a group of enemies found on the Jade Sea. They essentially were Luxons driven insane by the mining the Jade Sea. This madness developed from encountering the demon Kanaxai. It would be interesting if the Mesmer profession went in a sort of "Mad Hatter" direction. Or possibly if the developers would look again at the GW1 mechanic of skill thievery and mimicry.

    Saltsprays were a type of draconic enemy also found on the Jade Sea. (See what I mean by the over focusing on the Luxon faction? ) Saltspray dragons employed elemental magics and could be quite deadly. A group of them would "Ride the Lighting" to you then with PB and PBAoE spells spike damage to you. As Kuunavang is also a Saltspray would it not be interesting to see what she could teach? Indeed she might even become an Aurene 2.0 in the game.

    The Oracle for the Necromancer seems apt to me based on former lore. They are shepherds of the dead in Canthan lore. As Necromancers from GW1 had access to a couple of teleport spells and the Oracles dealt with transit it felt reasonable. But I will admit I've never been a big Necromancer fan so I am open to other ideas.

    Obviously I suspect the developers have really cool ideas in store for us. I am very excited about going back to Cantha as I have a lot of good memories of playing Factions. Indeed it is probably my most played of the campaigns. At the time Factions came out it felt like ArenaNet was really committed to their style of MMO. I am definitely happy at the prospect to go back.

    "There is little love for those of my kind in this place, yet I am here to help save them all. To those who matter, actions speak louder than words and my actions shall echo across this city for eternity until all recognize the honor of the Tengu race." ~ Talon Silverwing

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drgnfly.5812 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    I hate to be like "No no no no no." ... But the we have to understand how their culture has been molded by these professions and their roles in society. Not just what sounds cool. I would love if Thief had some references to the Oni. That would be great. I'd love some Kuunavang references. But we also have to think about what is culturally significant.

    I'm not married to these ideas, I was just spit balling. Mostly I tried to consider where we left Cantha and what might have happened in the past 250 years. Here are couple of points to defend my thoughts.

    I could see Canthans engaging and developing ritualized combat as a means of entertainment after centuries of isolation and subjugation on the other side of the world. Gladiator Defense was a very popular skill from the original Guild Wars, though granted it was from the Prophecies campaign. However, I feel that Cantha could possibly have now become the backwater nation due to the isolation.

    Kirin are associated with wise rulers in East Asian cultures. And as these creatures also made it into Factions I felt it appropriate to see them in a Canthan expansion. My thought was that they might be portrayed as the mirror image of the Firebrand. Akin to the same way that Spellbreaker can be seen as the mirror image of the Beserker.

    The Revenant from a generalized lore concept is very ritualistic in nature. The summoning of ashes and urns are more akin to Revenant channeling than Necromantic reanimation. As well the concept of spiritual communing and the manipulation of those spirits would fit well into Revenant mechanics and could provide a new and exciting utility.

    Chu Ko Nu for the Engineer is probably a bit of a stretch, but it does carry a strong Asian engineering element to it. IRL the Chu Ko Nu was the repeating Chinese crossbow. I could see the Engineer getting a bow weapon with mechanical developments. A manipulation of chemicals would be a fine idea but treads thematically close to the elixirs. Mechanical constructs did exist in the Factions campaign and I could see them being further developed.

    With the Sea Dog I was envisaging the Luxon influences on the Ranger class. When I played Factions I remember that I really enjoyed that particular Faction. Though I admit in my suggestions I might I have recalled heavier on Luxon culture than on Kurzick. I could see the Juggernauts and the White Tigers of the Echovald Forest becoming a Ranger theme as well. But I honestly am hoping to get my pet Reef Lurker back. :-p

    I feel like with the Thief that the immediate desire will be to jump to Assassin. I was trying to meld that concept with Shadow Magics and so I recalled the Oni. Y'all will recall the Oni were big on using Shadow Shroud which was almost always a source of frustration for my heavy enchantment builds that I often played. So I was thinking that the Oni and the dark alleyways of Kaineng would have allowed Thieves to develop into a sort of Shadow Mage.

    The Outcast is actually conceived from a group of enemies found on the Jade Sea. They essentially were Luxons driven insane by the mining the Jade Sea. This madness developed from encountering the demon Kanaxai. It would be interesting if the Mesmer profession went in a sort of "Mad Hatter" direction. Or possibly if the developers would look again at the GW1 mechanic of skill thievery and mimicry.

    Saltsprays were a type of draconic enemy also found on the Jade Sea. (See what I mean by the over focusing on the Luxon faction? ) Saltspray dragons employed elemental magics and could be quite deadly. A group of them would "Ride the Lighting" to you then with PB and PBAoE spells spike damage to you. As Kuunavang is also a Saltspray would it not be interesting to see what she could teach? Indeed she might even become an Aurene 2.0 in the game.

    The Oracle for the Necromancer seems apt to me based on former lore. They are shepherds of the dead in Canthan lore. As Necromancers from GW1 had access to a couple of teleport spells and the Oracles dealt with transit it felt reasonable. But I will admit I've never been a big Necromancer fan so I am open to other ideas.

    Obviously I suspect the developers have really cool ideas in store for us. I am very excited about going back to Cantha as I have a lot of good memories of playing Factions. Indeed it is probably my most played of the campaigns. At the time Factions came out it felt like ArenaNet was really committed to their style of MMO. I am definitely happy at the prospect to go back.

    Of course. I'm a bit of a lore buff myself. Although my speculation for lore is magic and necromancy/ritualist specifically. I know what they can do and can't do specifically and recently it's been Revenany as well. It's one of the reasons I'm so adamant against the idea of Rev getting Rit. The lore for ritualist and necromancer are so intertwined and the cultural roles that the ritualist used to play are now taken up by the necromancer.

    Of course they were different in their approach in gw1. The Necromancer was less spiritual in Gw1 but that has changed since then and they have developed a more Ritualist temperament in the 250 years. Their armor used to be mostly leather and face paint and occasionally body paint. The ritualist also used face and body paint but they used it more and they wore bones and teeth a lot more than the necromancer in GW1. This has shifted in GW2 as the necromancer now wears a lot of boned and teeth and skulls now as well.

    But aside from that. I don't entirely dislike your ideas. I think some of them could be quite neat.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    • Warrior will probably get monk, a melee staff and will be more about healing. (The warriors version of firebrand is what im guessing.) With protection spells, smiting and maybe some form of moral boost that makes you a frontline support. (Support is one of the roles warrior can't fill, the tactics change is giving a hint that they want to change that.)
    • Messmer will most likely get the assassin as they share the same god, and the thief already has some similar mechanics to the assassin. I foresee messmer getting it simply due to them sharing the same god, and their similarities using mental manipulation and stealth to dispatch enemies.
    • Thief most likely will get some samurai thing.... since everyone wants it.
    • Necromancer, is gonna be a ritualist or something VERY close to a ritualist. I really don't see it not happening its either them or guardian, so if they don't get rit than Id think maybe a diabloist or something to do with the darker aspects of their power. (Maybe an oracle spec?)
    • Guardian will probably get a "Shrine Guardian Lion" themed spec, with some such unique abilities. Maybe a more selfish version of the guardian?
    • Elementalist will probably get something to do with the stars, as the mission closer in the stars would be good to pay homage too. Was a very popular mission.
    • Engineer will get something probably like a alchemist/golem-mancer who is about using biological weapons, electricity and minions to cause havoc.
    • Since Revenant can get anything, Im going to say its going to be something tied to the norn as they are champions and heroes who will fight against the odds. They overcome anything and everything, I could see Asgeir if they want to be a good guy norn or svanir if they want to give us a villian. I don't see them doing a canthan related legend as they have never done a legend related to the region. (Asgeir has been hinted at ALOT, as has svanir..)
    • I 100% see ranger getting a Warden spec, what it will entail I have no clue but it makes the most sense since those are beings who tied themselves to nature. They became one with nature and were driven mad when the forest became stone, but no longer is it stone just as the sea is no longer jade.
  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Samurai-Japanese warrior
    Warrior spec-Asian theme
    = samurai warrior spec.

    Thief seems more like a assassin or saboteur type of class. I'd say ninja but be kinda adding more of the same same for assassin. Maybe saboteur, pirate, bandit, trickster. Although assassin idea done with a different twist would be awesome.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    • Engineer will get something probably like a alchemist/golem-mancer who is about using biological weapons, electricity and minions to cause havoc.

    I doubt that the next engineer elite spec will use electricity, since this is already a major thematic of the scrapper. Also hope that it will not be a golemancer or using minions in general. We already have a minion type.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    • Engineer will get something probably like a alchemist/golem-mancer who is about using biological weapons, electricity and minions to cause havoc.

    I doubt that the next engineer elite spec will use electricity, since this is already a major thematic of the scrapper. Also hope that it will not be a golemancer or using minions in general. We already have a minion type, turrets. I don't see the need to get another one, especially since they already tried to give us more minions with gyros, which have been a failure.

    I think every class should have a minion type skill to enable to use a minion master playstyle, but one is enough. Next elite spec please should focus on alchemy and chemical warfare.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    • Engineer will get something probably like a alchemist/golem-mancer who is about using biological weapons, electricity and minions to cause havoc.

    I doubt that the next engineer elite spec will use electricity, since this is already a major thematic of the scrapper. Also hope that it will not be a golemancer or using minions in general. We already have a minion type, turrets. I don't see the need to get another one, especially since they already tried to give us more minions with gyros, which have been a failure.

    I think every class should have a minion type skill to enable to use a minion master playstyle, but one is enough. Next elite spec please should focus on alchemy and chemical warfare.

    I mean thats fair but the scrapper is no longer a minion spec, why make the change unless they were planning on introducing another minion spec? Who knows they might make a golemancer who uses chemical weapons and biological warfare? Like someone who embodies a mad scientist, and uses contagions to spread plauge and sickness with their golems function as a method in keeping themself safe and spreading the plauge.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2020

    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Fun Daredevil

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    • Engineer will get something probably like a alchemist/golem-mancer who is about using biological weapons, electricity and minions to cause havoc.

    I doubt that the next engineer elite spec will use electricity, since this is already a major thematic of the scrapper. Also hope that it will not be a golemancer or using minions in general. We already have a minion type, turrets. I don't see the need to get another one, especially since they already tried to give us more minions with gyros, which have been a failure.

    I think every class should have a minion type skill to enable to use a minion master playstyle, but one is enough. Next elite spec please should focus on alchemy and chemical warfare.

    I mean thats fair but the scrapper is no longer a minion spec, why make the change unless they were planning on introducing another minion spec? Who knows they might make a golemancer who uses chemical weapons and biological warfare? Like someone who embodies a mad scientist, and uses contagions to spread plauge and sickness with their golems function as a method in keeping themself safe and spreading the plauge.

    They made the change because gyros simply didn't work, they were clunky as hell, their pathing was the worst. And every single advantage that gyros had got taken away from them for balance, too, like the daze on destruction and the instant cast on non damaging gyros like Medic and Stealth.
    That's why, not because they prepare another minion spec.

    So they just took the route that players pointed out to them for years: make them wells.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Rev as the spiritual successor of Ritualist is no more confirmed in game than paragon is for guardians. It's a PvP title which holds no lore significance. The successor to paragon was confirmed in lore to be spellbreaker since their daggers are the broken spears but not broken will of the Sunspears. And the Paragon was the shining beacon of the Sunspears in the lore.

    So that is not confirmed at all. And a white mantle ritualist exists in bloodstone fen that is a necromancer. Uses grasping dead as a skill.

    However that's not confirmation for necromancer but its pretty good evidence.

    Also no rifle necro... As a necromancer main I despise this idea. I'd rather double up on an existing weapon than have rifle. Shield, Trident, sword or one of the bows is my preference.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Rev as the spiritual successor of Ritualist is no more confirmed in game than paragon is for guardians. It's a PvP title which holds no lore significance. The successor to paragon was confirmed in lore to be spellbreaker since their daggers are the broken spears but not broken will of the Sunspears. And the Paragon was the shining beacon of the Sunspears in the lore.

    So that is not confirmed at all. And a white mantle ritualist exists in bloodstone fen that is a necromancer. Uses grasping dead as a skill.

    However that's not confirmation for necromancer but its pretty good evidence.

    Also no rifle necro... As a necromancer main I despise this idea. I'd rather double up on an existing weapon than have rifle. Shield, Trident, sword or one of the bows is my preference.

    Yes, only rev and ritualist deal with the mists directly.

    Razah is being born of the mists.

    No necromancer uses any mist based magic.

    Ritualist were not on good terms with necromancers in GW1.

    The profession ritualist versus a generic title given to GW1 Prophecies foes....

    You are wrong, just like everytime you post about this subject.

    Necromancer's manipulate rotting corpes, ritualist commune with spirits, which is something revenants do (regardless of the ones they are channeling).

    Necromancers are a corruption class, and ritualist are pure, they would never be the same.

    We can review all the skills and abilities and it will even be more clear how far apart the two are.

    The pvp title ritualist is a direct nod from the devs that revenants indeed are ritualist.

    With renegegade and the warband summons, it is even more clear who the spiritual successor is.....revenant.

    You can argue all you want the sun is blue, but all we have to do it look outside to see it's incorrect.

    Looking at how you try to force the square necro into the round ritualist shows you have passion about the two classes, but lack a clue about either.

    :BTW not every sunspear was a paragon

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Sunspears

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Fun Daredevil

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Rev as the spiritual successor of Ritualist is no more confirmed in game than paragon is for guardians. It's a PvP title which holds no lore significance. The successor to paragon was confirmed in lore to be spellbreaker since their daggers are the broken spears but not broken will of the Sunspears. And the Paragon was the shining beacon of the Sunspears in the lore.

    So that is not confirmed at all. And a white mantle ritualist exists in bloodstone fen that is a necromancer. Uses grasping dead as a skill.

    However that's not confirmation for necromancer but its pretty good evidence.

    Also no rifle necro... As a necromancer main I despise this idea. I'd rather double up on an existing weapon than have rifle. Shield, Trident, sword or one of the bows is my preference.

    Not in-game, but there was an interview back when guardian was announced where ArenaNet said that the initial foundation of guardians was basically when monks looking to be less vulnerable in combat got together with paragons. There is a lore link there.

    Similarly, there's a lore link between ritualist and revenant.

    However, they're still separate professions, since they do very different things with that power. There's a lot of thematic similarities between mesmer and thief as well, but they're not the same thing even if they are using similar magic. Rangers use a bit of elemental magic, but they're not elementalists either.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm just here to see how many people are asking for Land Trident and to laugh.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Rev as the spiritual successor of Ritualist is no more confirmed in game than paragon is for guardians. It's a PvP title which holds no lore significance. The successor to paragon was confirmed in lore to be spellbreaker since their daggers are the broken spears but not broken will of the Sunspears. And the Paragon was the shining beacon of the Sunspears in the lore.

    So that is not confirmed at all. And a white mantle ritualist exists in bloodstone fen that is a necromancer. Uses grasping dead as a skill.

    However that's not confirmation for necromancer but its pretty good evidence.

    Also no rifle necro... As a necromancer main I despise this idea. I'd rather double up on an existing weapon than have rifle. Shield, Trident, sword or one of the bows is my preference.

    Yes, only rev and ritualist deal with the mists directly.

    Razah is being born of the mists.

    No necromancer uses any mist based magic.

    Ritualist were not on good terms with necromancers in GW1.

    The profession ritualist versus a generic title given to GW1 Prophecies foes....

    You are wrong, just like everytime you post about this subject.

    Necromancer's manipulate rotting corpes, ritualist commune with spirits, which is something revenants do (regardless of the ones they are channeling).

    Necromancers are a corruption class, and ritualist are pure, they would never be the same.

    We can review all the skills and abilities and it will even be more clear how far apart the two are.

    The pvp title ritualist is a direct nod from the devs that revenants indeed are ritualist.

    With renegegade and the warband summons, it is even more clear who the spiritual successor is.....revenant.

    You can argue all you want the sun is blue, but all we have to do it look outside to see it's incorrect.

    Looking at how you try to force the square necro into the round ritualist shows you have passion about the two classes, but lack a clue about either.

    :BTW not every sunspear was a paragon

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Sunspears

    Ritualist has never been confirmed to use mist magic. They are not purifiers either. They are very much about corrupting the soul. You can see this in their skills.

    Also I know Sunspears aren't all Paragons. But the Daggers of the Spellbreaker are a direct reference to Paragons as the broken off spear heads used in a new way. Some their lore teachings are very paragon like. WP does also see some of the Parallels with Warrior and Paragon as he suggested in his specialization video warrior get a paragon elite spec and not Guardian. Even though guardian has the PvP title of paragon. So he does see the same parallels I see.

    As for Necromancer's relationship with Ritualist. It's true they don't see eye to eye in guild wars 1. But that's 250 years ago. That's a long time. Nations rise and fall in that time. Events are forgotten and forged. And the reason for the Rivalry wasn't the same reason Monks and Necromancer's rivalry where they were diametrically opposed. It was because the Necromancer and Ritualist hold extremely similar beliefs and practices.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Probably won't be any ritualist or assassins in Cantha.

    There are canthans in tyria mainland, and the game allows you to also choose where your family is from during the human personal story.

    Being that we don't see either anywhere in the game, it's probably safe to say only the spiritual successors that already exist in the game are all you will get from those.

    (assassin (rev or thief (thief is actually confirmed, but let's give shiro a break))

    (ritualist(this is confirmed in game to be the revenant))

    After 300-400 years things have changed, and not just in central.

    If the ministries had their ways, things changed drastically.

    If ritualist bind ancestors, will that really work for any non-human?

    Assassin's is just overkill for what we already got in game.

    I expect there will be new things, that the current professions can pick up.

    No current class can really support the ritualist, not revenant nor necromancer.

    It would literally need to be a stand alone class, as it was that different in GW1.

    Also, despite what people want, Anet tends to surprise us.

    My money is Rifle Necro ...we can get cursed bullet back in the game

    Rev as the spiritual successor of Ritualist is no more confirmed in game than paragon is for guardians. It's a PvP title which holds no lore significance. The successor to paragon was confirmed in lore to be spellbreaker since their daggers are the broken spears but not broken will of the Sunspears. And the Paragon was the shining beacon of the Sunspears in the lore.

    So that is not confirmed at all. And a white mantle ritualist exists in bloodstone fen that is a necromancer. Uses grasping dead as a skill.

    However that's not confirmation for necromancer but its pretty good evidence.

    Also no rifle necro... As a necromancer main I despise this idea. I'd rather double up on an existing weapon than have rifle. Shield, Trident, sword or one of the bows is my preference.

    Yes, only rev and ritualist deal with the mists directly.

    Razah is being born of the mists.

    No necromancer uses any mist based magic.

    Ritualist were not on good terms with necromancers in GW1.

    The profession ritualist versus a generic title given to GW1 Prophecies foes....

    You are wrong, just like everytime you post about this subject.

    Necromancer's manipulate rotting corpes, ritualist commune with spirits, which is something revenants do (regardless of the ones they are channeling).

    Necromancers are a corruption class, and ritualist are pure, they would never be the same.

    We can review all the skills and abilities and it will even be more clear how far apart the two are.

    The pvp title ritualist is a direct nod from the devs that revenants indeed are ritualist.

    With renegegade and the warband summons, it is even more clear who the spiritual successor is.....revenant.

    You can argue all you want the sun is blue, but all we have to do it look outside to see it's incorrect.

    Looking at how you try to force the square necro into the round ritualist shows you have passion about the two classes, but lack a clue about either.

    :BTW not every sunspear was a paragon

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Sunspears

    Believe it or not as stated in another thread, Engineer fills the role of Rit and they originally wanted Engie over rit but back when guild wars 1 was hot the world had no tech. The Revenant is closer to the dervish and it was stated that it kind of fills that role, it has elements of the ritualist just as other classes do as well (Guardian, Engineer) but it is primarily based on the dervish who has NO other successor to date in game. Dervishes channel the power of the six gods, mist beings who are god levels of power and the revenants channel power directly from the mists. So basically its a less confined and less hindered dervish who is focused on other forms of battle, it even uses staff as a melee staff which considering it was the first "class" to do so. (E-spec for thief got it too, but they share many animations. So I think this came because of revenant, not the other way around.)

    They talk extensively about revenant in episode 17 of points of interest. With Roy who basically was the daddy of the rev, they even state that it was planned to be a thing at launch but didn't make the cut.. So while I believe Ritualist had a part to play, I feel like Revenant is a love child between it and the dervish with it leaning heavily into the dervish via legend swap and invoking the power of the mists. Some of the skills even sound similar such as banish enchantment, embrace the darkness and so on which are kind of indicitve of the old grenth builds for derv.

    You have to remember guild wars 1 allowed duel classes, so I imagine if you took a dervish and a ritualist and made a duel spec out of them it would feel a lot like Revenant without the crazy mobility. (Or theme) I wouldn't mind if they took a bit more lead way into embracing their dervish side, and letting us shapeshift (Give us svanir, let us become the norn bear?) Kind of let us have that homage to that form of play on dervish. Let us BECOME the legends so to speak, or an avatar of them and become more powerful as we fully embody our channeled legend.

    Kalla was a throw-back to the ritualist, I think next we should have a throw back to dervish maybe... Would be REALLY cool in theme. "Focusing on the mists, and fully embracing them you become seeped in their essence. You are neither of this world or the next, lost in-between and so saturated with its power that you are more than you were before.. you have ascended."

  • Elric.4713Elric.4713 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Ritualist has never been confirmed to use mist magic. They are not purifiers either. They are very much about corrupting the soul. You can see this in their skills.

    As for Necromancer's relationship with Ritualist. It's true they don't see eye to eye in guild wars 1. But that's 250 years ago. That's a long time. Nations rise and fall in that time. Events are forgotten and forged. And the reason for the Rivalry wasn't the same reason Monks and Necromancer's rivalry where they were diametrically opposed. It was because the Necromancer and Ritualist hold extremely similar beliefs and practices.

    Here's a quote from Professor Gai for you: "I have often found that Ritualists will progressively become more incisive, mordant, and paradoxical as they maintain confluence with the Mists." And he also calls Necromancers "foul".
    You keep twisting or straight up ignoring the in-game lore to suit your headcanon.

    👻Legendary Ritualist Stance - Invoke the power of the legendary ritualist Master Togo.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Professor Gai is one ritualist, who's apparently had to clean up after necromancers a few times. He's not an indication of what every Ritualist thinks, any more than Aidan being frustrated at Aziure means that every Ranger, or even every Ascalonian Ranger, hates Elementalists.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Ritualist has never been confirmed to use mist magic. They are not purifiers either. They are very much about corrupting the soul. You can see this in their skills.

    As for Necromancer's relationship with Ritualist. It's true they don't see eye to eye in guild wars 1. But that's 250 years ago. That's a long time. Nations rise and fall in that time. Events are forgotten and forged. And the reason for the Rivalry wasn't the same reason Monks and Necromancer's rivalry where they were diametrically opposed. It was because the Necromancer and Ritualist hold extremely similar beliefs and practices.

    Here's a quote from Professor Gai for you: "I have often found that Ritualists will progressively become more incisive, mordant, and paradoxical as they maintain confluence with the Mists." And he also calls Necromancers "foul".
    You keep twisting or straight up ignoring the in-game lore to suit your headcanon.

    I don't. The in game cannon says they commune with the dead. You're ignoring it and being hyper selective with your lore. Necromancer do commune with the dead. It's in the name.

    "The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes."

    "Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies."

    "Life force is a special type of energy that necromancers draw from their enemies. Once they’ve collected enough life force, necromancers can activate their Death Shroud, entering a spirit form."

    "By performing rituals, necromancers create wells of dark power to torture their enemies and support their allies."

    "Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon minions, wield the power of ritual, and heal themselves with blood magic."

    Seems they already commune with spirits and already perform rituals. Doesn't look like I'm making that up at all. But let's find some in game Ritualists from GW2.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritualist_Josa

    He seems pretty Necromancer to me. And he's called a ritualist yet he uses necromancer like skills. Who could have predicted that?

    There are other ritualists in gw2, but the one that has notable skills is more elementalist than anything else. Doesn't help either point but I'll point it out regardless because I'm consistent with my information, unlike you have been.

    "Torches are symbolic. They light the way to the other side. We're necromancers; death follows us wherever we go. We use it, but we also respect it. The torches remind us." ~Akesi Xuni

    Now this is just Speculative on my part. So I don't want to make a claim without evidence. This is purely a fan theory. So take it with a grain of Salt. Stygians, which are partially formed demons https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stygian look suspiciously like minions. Stygians are a real part of the lore. That part isn't speculation. The speculative part is that necromancer already pulls magical energies from the mists and when they manifest that energy into corpse/corpseless minions it forms into a proto demon of sorts. There is evidence that this might actually be the case. If the minions were made of the necromancer's own magic or magic of tyria they would be different. In the First game when you killed the necromancer the minions didn't dispel. They went wild. And in the second game Trahearne did mention that he needed to focus to maintain control over his minions. And that they didn't use corpses like the Risen. Further Evidence is when Kormir Leaves her realm Shades show up which look like Shadow Fiend. We also see that with the portals to the underworld shades are there too. These aren't the only examples of the necromancer's potential connection to the underworld and realm of torment either. The skill Ghastly Breach directly references that it breaches the realm of torment. So there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that the necromancer is and has always been borrowing dark magics from these realms.

    Now how this comes into play with our ritualist, the ritualist is right to call necromancer's fools as you put it. They're dabbling in magics they don't take the discipline to understand. Both are very much pulling their magics from the same source but Ritualist is using binding rituals to control them while the necromancer's blood rituals would be more likely to put the spirits and demons into a fervor.

    The evidence of their connection doesn't end there. Marjory summoned the ghost of a child to find his killer and the child was banished by someone who didn't want her to solve the crime. It was suggested that the banisher was a necromancer. Necromancers in GW1 cannot banish undead. Monks and Ritualists could. The Necromancer is diametrically opposed to the monk so who are they going to learn this magic from? The one class that they share magical roots with, the ritualist.

    But even just beyond that Marjory's sword which has her sister bound to it was also something very ritualisty.

    You see, they're different philosophies, 250 years ago. But magic has changed. Cultures change. And necromancy is extremely likely to meld with Ritualists. You keep saying I have nothing and I've seen you revenant plays even try and argue that the Necromancer doesn't summon spirits when its written in their very lore that they do. You even have a necromancer in the game right now who rips souls out of a person's body.

    To say they're not connected to each other and significantly so is pure ignorance of the lore and reality of the game.

  • Elric.4713Elric.4713 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:
    He seems pretty Necromancer to me. And he's called a ritualist yet he uses necromancer like skills. Who could have predicted that?

    So when they give a random Necromancer boss a Ritualist title it means something, but when the actual profession gets Ritualist title it's nothing?

    There are other ritualists in gw2, but the one that has notable skills is more elementalist than anything else. Doesn't help either point but I'll point it out regardless because I'm consistent with my information, unlike you have been.

    It does help us to note that when it comes to NPCs they probaly used Ritualist title as a flavour, as Elementalists can technically have some kind of rites that are tied to elements. Doesn't mean he's connected to the Factions Ritualist profession.

    👻Legendary Ritualist Stance - Invoke the power of the legendary ritualist Master Togo.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    He seems pretty Necromancer to me. And he's called a ritualist yet he uses necromancer like skills. Who could have predicted that?

    So when they give a random Necromancer boss a Ritualist title it means something, but when the actual profession gets Ritualist title it's nothing?

    There are other ritualists in gw2, but the one that has notable skills is more elementalist than anything else. Doesn't help either point but I'll point it out regardless because I'm consistent with my information, unlike you have been.

    It does help us to note that when it comes to NPCs they probaly used Ritualist title as a flavour, as Elementalists can technically have some kind of rites that are tied to elements. Doesn't mean he's connected to the Factions Ritualist profession.

    Titles are nothing, yes. They're extremely flimsy as an argument point. If NPCs actually responded to your titles, MAYBE they would mean something. But all they are is homage to something in the past. You choose the point I made to show you what a flimsy argument looks like, I point out the flaws in it, and even with its flaws its still far more substantive than the PvP title to the lore and its not good enough for you and you think a Title is going to be even remotely close to being good enough evidence for anyone? We have an Actual Necromancer NPC who is a ritualist. An In cannon character who is a Ritualist! I don't think that's good enough evidence which is why I continued on with MUCH stronger points in favor of the Necromancer. And You're locked onto the weakest point of this and point to an even weaker point of the PvP title that are never referenced at all by anyone. Titles are for US! They're meaningless to the lore of the game. They give no hints to what's to come in the future. Why not try addressing my other points? The stronger meat of my argument? Hmm? Why focus on the one aspect that I myself say isn't good enough?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Listen guys it's pretty simple. When it comes to ritualist, necro and revs the answers pretty clear, it's obvious that warrior should get a samurai spec with spear. Hope that helps ur quarrel.
    That is all.

    I'll see myself out lol.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I'm just here to see how many people are asking for Land Trident and to laugh.

    Everything that is asked here is worthy of a laugh to begin with.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Listen guys it's pretty simple. When it comes to ritualist, necro and revs the answers pretty clear, it's obvious that warrior should get a samurai spec with spear. Hope that helps ur quarrel.
    That is all.

    I'll see myself out lol.

    Samurai short bow and they ride a combat mount.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Listen guys it's pretty simple. When it comes to ritualist, necro and revs the answers pretty clear, it's obvious that warrior should get a samurai spec with spear. Hope that helps ur quarrel.
    That is all.

    I'll see myself out lol.

    Samurai short bow and they ride a combat mount.

    Oh hell yeah lol except I'd rather lb get reworked into something similar but different to rangers. Right now lb is lol.
    Mounted archer tho is a great idea.
    Warrior now can use long bow on mount and can use spear when unmounted to unmount opponents lol.
    I'd be the wvw thief hunter pew pewing them from my mount lol

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, when you have ritualist titles associated with both necromancers and revenants, perhaps the logical conclusion, rather than arguing for either to be invalid, is that both have such ties?

    Back in GW1, there were no links between necromancer and ritualist magic beyond the superficial - they were entirely separate professions, and couldn't be combined apart from through secondary professions. But things have changed since then. Professions have broadened. We have several cases of necromancers having abilities that would have been more associated with ritualists in the past, both in terms of skills available to players, and in things that happen in the lore or are performed by necromancer NPCs.

    There's even a bit of an explanation for how this happened - there were interviews in 2013 where the fate of the Canthan and Elonian professions in core Tyria was discussed. Basically, when Lion's Arch was wiped out and Orr rose, it not only cut off contact with the rest of the world, it was also where most of Kryta's adepts of those professions were, being the most cosmopolitan city in Kryta. It didn't manage to wipe out those professions entirely, since not everyone with that knowledge was in Lion's Arch at the time, but it did put a significant enough dent in the knowledge base so that the teachings of these professions were no longer able to remain as cohesive traditions in their own right, and instead the dribs and drabs that remained got merged with other professions with a similar focus.

    Guardian we know, but which other profession can we think of that have a close interest in learning what it can about the other side of death?

    Let's not forget that one of the purposes of elite specialisations is as a kind of replacement for secondary professions. There was nothing preventing you from running N/Rt in GW1 (in fact, that was the initial setup of my Necromancer). Nor was there anything even indicating that this was a frowned-on combination. All you've got is a few comments from a couple of individual Ritualist NPCs.

    And to shift the topic a bit... yeah, shortbow for warrior would be an interesting way to pull off a samurai-themed warrior elite spec. Swords are already available and I don't think we're ever getting polearms at this stage, so an archery style that's more mobility-focused might well be a fitting way to represent a samurai theme. I don't think we'll see a heavily armoured warrior jumping around like a ranger or thief, though.

    There is an argument that the more spiritual side of samurai might fit guardian better, but there's no reason they can't have one based on samurai mythology while the other is based on actual samurai history. The main concern would be the "there is more to the Far East than Japan" issue - Cantha, if anything, seems more based on China than Japan, although there is an argument to be made that this really only applies to Kaineng, and the Kurzicks are actually a weird Germanic-Japanese cross (Zu, for instance, is a German nobility particle, although strictly speaking the Kurzick houses should possibly have been using von instead - depends on whether the locations or the family names came first).

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Elementalist: Adept: Followers of the oracle of the mist, the adepts are elementalists that gained the ability to see the spirit of the dead and commune with the celestials. Their attunments are bound to the spiritual creatures allowing them to chose to summon one of these to support them in their fight. (The elementalist will keep the benefit of the summoned celestial creature's attunment even if he change it's own attunment)

    Engineer: Sapper: Previously turtle handler, the sappers slowly turned themself more and more toward technology. They are always followed by a strange slow golem with powerful firepower.

    Guardian: Abjurer: Member of an elite squad of the imperial army specialized in fixing the balance between the material world and the mist. They are known for their resistance toward curses and their ability to banish spirits of the dead.

    Mesmer: Beggar: The beggars are born in Kaineng's street and use their power to look weaker than they are so that they can make a living from begging. However, be careful to not anger them, because what they suffer from can very likely be what you will soon suffer from. They are specialized in self-ailment and do have the ability to both transfert those condition and/or convert them into boons to strengthen themselfs.

    Necromancer: Apostat: In the depth of the echovald forest lied a cult dedicating blood sacrifices to demons. The Apostat freed themselves in death from this cult and now use their teachings to fight against it. Apostats are known for their bloody figthing style, sacrificing their own blood to fuel their terrifying magic. (The necromancer gain the ability to redirect self inflicted and drawn condition's damage onto their life force pool but they lose the "shroud")

    Ranger: Stalker: Born from the enmity between the kurziks and the luxons, the Stalkers are proficient in using their environment in drawn out fights.

    Revenant: Nomad: The nomads are revenants bound to the legendary Nomad [insert tengu name]. They share it's wanderlust and seldom settle for long. This make them lonely wanderer whose ability look strangely close to the old dervish's.

    Thief: Shadow: Amongst the canthan's assassin existed a group that dedicated itself to wield the shadow more than hide in them. The shadow no longer hide in shadow, they cloack themself in shadow and weave them to their bidding. Elusive fighter they are often mistaken for mages.

    Warrior: Juggernaut: Resilients fighter of the Kurzick faction, their bodies show sign of a fusion with tough plants. They are specialized in taking damage all while benefiting their allies from their powerful aura.

    NB.: Unfortunately I think I gave everything I had to the beggar...

  • Rashagar.8349Rashagar.8349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2020

    To be honest I'm finding it difficult to remember a lot of the lore/plot from Factions. I kind of feel like I need to go back and replay it. But in saying that, if the Kurzicks aren't represented, I will feel crushed. Their whole aesthetic was amazing, and it could be a great excuse to resurrect the bunny thumper ranger in the form of their wardens.

    If I was to do this, I'd probably need to list the themes we have to play around with first.

    Like with the celestial spirits idea above.
    I love Dadnir's idea to tie it in to elementalist, but that theme could also be used to give rangers a sparkly spiritual/ethereal aoe buffing kind of pet, or revenants their new legend, or necromancers could cloak themselves in starlight and get divination kind of powers by communing with the celestial heavens, etc.

  • Kaizer.8261Kaizer.8261 Member ✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    For the engineer, I still think that a spec featuring chemical warfare would be the best.

    And I could even imagine a lore connection for them. One major point in the history of Cantha has been the existence of the plague. A magical disease that was spreading among the humans, forging their flesh in new grotesque ways. And after their death, every "afflicted" as they were called would detonate in a toxic cloud of poison and disease.

    While it has been a magical phenomenon, I could still imagine that there have been quite some scientists around back when all this happened. Looking for a scientific solution for the problem.
    Which could have lead the way to a new caste of scientists focusing on diseases, concoctions and diverse chemicals.

    And maybe, even if these scientists were not able to find a cure for the plague back then, they actually found some offensive uses for the things they studied.
    Especially with the high amount of organised crime in Cantha, I could imagine that this knowledge could grow more and more meaningful over time. Alchemy can be a powerful weapon and really terrifying, if used correctly.

    And so, a new class of experts have been born. The Plaguedoctors.

    I openned this topic just to see a coment like this, and i thought the same

    I always see western culture represented in games by mythicism involving either the divine, alchemy and medicine.

    My guess is not a "Plaguedoctor" class, but an ALCHEMIST itself, a class focussed on both Chemical Warfare and Medicine, being both a viable Healer Class + Condition Damage.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Mesmer: Beggar:

    When you nerf a profession so hard that they become beggars. B)

    The degenerate

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Mesmer: Beggar:

    When you nerf a profession so hard that they become beggars. B)

    Right :smile:

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    The mists do reach in cantha.

    Guardian we have likely seen the new elite spec in the form of almorra.

    I suspect for revanent we may see empower kisu