No Need for Firearms

"> @"Dirame.8521" said:

I rate reapplication speed higher than amount of stacks and even duration. That's why I said the above statement. We can build up stacks easily if we can re-apply conditions as quickly as they are cleansed."

So I made that statement a while ago in the thread about our thoughts on what effect the (at the time) future balance changes would have and I got near enough eaten alive by people who felt I was wrong. Turns out, after some testing, I can now gloat :D !And not only was I right, we can also get an incredible amount of duration even with the nerfs. Check the builds below; 66% burning duration with Firearms, without firearms its 52% and if you calculate off-hand pistol duration with firearms the burn on your off-hand is 99% longer with firearms. It's insane!

With Holo smith, cleansing is pretty much pointless. Holo can just reapply conditions every Forge swap. And because of that you don't need Firearms for that specific build. Or any condi build that uses Holo really. Firearms would make the build a bit more condi heavy but taking Tools, Alchemy or Inventions would improve survivability or damage or both depending on what you use.For Core and Scrapper, since they don't have a way to access burning readily, Firearms is necessary, you could run flame turret which can do the job of incendiary powder but it has a high risk of getting destroyed by AOE or smart players. Fire arms being needed by Scrapper and Core is okay because they have in-built survivability mechanics that make it okay to leave out alchemy or inventions. Supply crate's bandages on Core mean that you don't need much in the way of cleansing, And Scrappers might-stacking when you have stability means you don't necessarily need Alchemy. So the builds just work. The builds are below;

Holo Build (Shield can be used here) : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAoqlVw+YdsLWKO8WqvNA-z5YXGJkA1XAKPA (also blind spam is strong)Variation Using Elixir Gun: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lVw6YesLWKO8WmvNA-z5YXEJUAKPAAnd here is some gameplay of it:Notice how fast the ele was cleansing the burns on him at the start of the fight.

Vs War

Scrapper: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lZw+YdsLWKO8K5tVA-z5YXGJkAZWAKPA

Core (Off-hand Pistol Can be used here): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lZw+YdsLWJO8K5LTA-z5YXGJUANmAKPAVariation Using Elixir Gun: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lZw6YesLWJO8K5LTA-z5YXGJUANmAKPA

@Dirame.8521 said:For Core and Scrapper, since they don't have a way to access burning readily, Firearms is necessarySo no, but actually yes.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:For Core and Scrapper, since they don't have a way to access burning readily, Firearms is necessarySo no, but actually yes.

Heheheh. Indeed. That said though there is a way to do it but it is not as reliable as just taking firearms. Using flame turret.

why on earth would you use coolant blast with buffed burn duration? unless you're resigned to never use cauterize. imo med kit is the best heal for any engi build.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:why on earth would you use coolant blast with buffed burn duration? unless you're resigned to never use cauterize. imo med kit is the best heal for any engi build.

Meh, it’s only 4s... but you know what, you are on to something there with Med kit. The only problem I would have with it is that, the removal of condies is not instant, it’s gradual. And sometimes you need something to remove a bunch of condis at once. That’s why I use Coolant Blast despite the drawback.

I've also been saying before the patch that there's no need for firearms.

@"Chaith.8256" said:I've also been saying before the patch that there's no need for firearms.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAw6lNwGZfsQWKO8WlPTA-zZILjMTgeLAPHAyo chaith man, yo yo whats up man hey man zappinen. make this meta bro, I know you can. sd all the way HOO HOO.build up heat and keep it at around 70% so when you exit forge you get that 3 condi convert. holo 2 for kiting. combo dem mortar fields, mainly 2 for weak. cmon man be a man PROVE IT.

Fire arms bad cos Pistols bad.

There I said it.

The only other reason people pick Firearms is because of a literal FIRE arm (aka Flamethrower)

Interesting to me how Condi Holo is now on Metabattle, I've seen more people playing it and I was saying before I saw anyone playing it that it's quite good. I'm sure I'm not the only person to have played it but I sure feel like I started a trend even if it was more likely a coincidence.

I used this in PvP. That's with Firearms however which goes against the subject of the thread, but just wanted to share what I had been using pre-February patch and still am.

This is what I use in WvW now which also has 100% Burn duration.

And this is the thread I made sharing it about a month ago although I've adjusted the build a bit since. Had to swap to full TB to maintain 100% Burn duration and swapped a few utility skills.

Superspeed spam and extremely high uptime on Burns as well as a very lethal burst of Burns make this a pretty solid build. It's durable, has good cleanse, moderate access to CC, mobile and has a very rapid and low cooldown burst.

Also, I use Coolant Blast sometimes as well. Prismatic Converter converts Conditions to Boons remember. I often use Cauterize to give myself Aegis on leaving Forge. Of course that isn't always possible for one reason or another, but just pointing out for those saying it makes no sense to use Coolant Blast with a condition build that the drawback can be circumvented.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Interesting to me how Condi Holo is now on Metabattle, I've seen more people playing it and I was saying before I saw anyone playing it that it's quite good. I'm sure I'm not the only person to have played it but I sure feel like I started a trend even if it was more likely a coincidence.

I used this in PvP. That's with Firearms however which goes against the subject of the thread, but just wanted to share what I had been using pre-February patch and still am.

This is what I use in WvW now which also has 100% Burn duration.

And this is the thread I made sharing it about a month ago although I've adjusted the build a bit since. Had to swap to full TB to maintain 100% Burn duration and swapped a few utility skills.

Superspeed spam and extremely high uptime on Burns as well as a very lethal burst of Burns make this a pretty solid build. It's durable, has good cleanse, moderate access to CC, mobile and has a very rapid and low cooldown burst.

Also, I use Coolant Blast sometimes as well. Prismatic Converter converts Conditions to Boons remember. I often use Cauterize to give myself Aegis on leaving Forge. Of course that isn't always possible for one reason or another, but just pointing out for those saying it makes no sense to use Coolant Blast with a condition build that the drawback can be circumvented.It would be interesting to fight such holos just to see how it performs against core engie on a similar build... unfortunetly they are so rare one cant really form an opinion. Cant recall when it was I even met one last.

I am curious why you arent using prime light beam though. The supply drop is really worthless in WvW and you're not getting that sweet condi cleanse on holo. Even elixir without moa makes more sense because you can really mess up people in a smallscale fight with it (victory is often 1 lucky tornado away...). Maybe you've said it elsewhere but I cant remember.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Interesting to me how Condi Holo is now on Metabattle, I've seen more people playing it and I was saying before I saw anyone playing it that it's quite good. I'm sure I'm not the only person to have played it but I sure feel like I started a trend even if it was more likely a coincidence.

I used this in PvP.

That's with Firearms however which goes against the subject of the thread, but just wanted to share what I had been using pre-February patch and still am.

This is what I use in WvW now

which also has 100% Burn duration.

And this is the thread I made sharing it about a month ago

although I've adjusted the build a bit since. Had to swap to full TB to maintain 100% Burn duration and swapped a few utility skills.

Superspeed spam and extremely high uptime on Burns as well as a very lethal burst of Burns make this a pretty solid build. It's durable, has good cleanse, moderate access to CC, mobile and has a very rapid and low cooldown burst.

Also, I use Coolant Blast sometimes as well. Prismatic Converter converts Conditions to Boons remember. I often use Cauterize to give myself Aegis on leaving Forge. Of course that isn't always possible for one reason or another, but just pointing out for those saying it makes no sense to use Coolant Blast with a condition build that the drawback can be circumvented.It would be interesting to fight such holos just to see how it performs against core engie on a similar build... unfortunetly they are so rare one cant really form an opinion. Cant recall when it was I even met one last.

All the elite options are good, really. I think it's just preference since none of them are really niche, maybe with the exception of Mortar Kit but it can still be good just for firing at your feet.

Supply Crate grants a long lasting Smoke Field, is a blast finisher, grants a Water Field, Immobs, Burns and has a 3sec stun. It actually helps me a lot especially when I need to stay defensive kiting in an outnumbered fight but still need to keep pressure on a downed player. I often use it both offensively to lock someone in place after I've forced some defense skills out of them or to kite around so I can leap through it for heals or Stealth.

Prime Light Beam is nice and all, being unblockable and giving some nice extra Burn stacks, but for the cast time and what it does I prefer Supply Crate.

I haven't fought many condi core Engi's with it unfortunately, so I can't say either. I do know that a well played core Explosives power Engi is a hard match though. The amount of CC's, damage and blinds can be scary but it's also low on cleanse so I have the upper hand by default. Just have to play it well.

I've wanted to play core condi for a long time now, truth be told. I just go with Holo because the mobility from Forge 2 can carry my sometimes awkward turn speed or slow reflexes. I play with a trackpad and have some minor physical limitations IRL so sometimes certain builds become unreasonably hard for me. Probably doesn't make much sense but, just a little background info, lol.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:snips

nah... its all about mortar. just the poison field makes it better then any of the others since you can combo it for weakness. weakness is so op lol. all of the fields are good really: ice for kiting, blinds for defense as well as makeshift condi clear (toss it down before your heal, turret blast plus flamer blast), plus another water field. its too good.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:snips

@Dawdler.8521 said:And its only about as easy to hit people as it is tying your shoelaces with oven mitts on.

using it at max range is a mistake, yes. altho it can be useful for spamming point when you need to disengage.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:snips

-DELETED-

Ignore this. Responded and misunderstood the conversation here, my bad. Wish we could just remove comments on this freaking forum.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:And its only about as easy to hit people as it is tying your shoelaces with oven mitts on.

Even at closer ranges. The shells are pretty much slower than I am when chasing people with superspeed. Price to pay for laying that many fields I guess.

@MrForz.1953 said:Even at closer ranges. The shells are pretty much slower than I am when chasing people with superspeed. Price to pay for laying that many fields I guess.

under 600 I find it pretty easy to land unless they're full on running perpendicular to me.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:snips

On a power build, with quickness, it's quite glorious. Could wipe out a whole team just spamming it on a downed body.

@Dirame.8521 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:snips

I could believe it. Though I haven't used it much in WvW I do know from the receiving end that it actually does quite a lot of damage. I imagine if you're good with placing AOE's quickly and predicting people's movement it could probably be about as good as Grenade Kit.

And on the subject of Grenade Kit, I've been using that lately on a new core Power build I'm trying out and I'm rather surprised at how OP Explosive Entrance + Flash Bang are. So far no one has complained about it but I could see it becoming a subject of debate in the future. Daze + Blind that can crit 3 - 4k on top of how ever much the attack it's paired with is doing is kind of crazy. I hit a few people with some 7k Shrapnel Grenades with the actual Grenades doing only like 3k and the rest from Explosive Entrance.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:And on the subject of Grenade Kit, I've been using that lately on a new core Power build I'm trying out and I'm rather surprised at how OP Explosive Entrance + Flash Bang are. So far no one has complained about it but I could see it becoming a subject of debate in the future. Daze + Blind that can crit 3 - 4k on top of how ever much the attack it's paired with is doing is kind of crazy. I hit a few people with some 7k Shrapnel Grenades with the actual Grenades doing only like 3k and the rest from Explosive Entrance.

Oh the debate has already started. It's just that specs such as Firebrand are acting like a lightning rod at the moment, too much noise concealing the few complaints about the potential Explosive Entrance abuse, and mostly daze, not the damage itself.

@MrForz.1953 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:And on the subject of Grenade Kit, I've been using that lately on a new core Power build I'm trying out and I'm rather surprised at how OP Explosive Entrance + Flash Bang are. So far no one has complained about it but I could see it becoming a subject of debate in the future. Daze + Blind that can crit 3 - 4k on top of how ever much the attack it's paired with is doing is kind of crazy. I hit a few people with some 7k Shrapnel Grenades with the actual Grenades doing only like 3k and the rest from Explosive Entrance.

Hehe, it's not my fault if a target decides to stay above 90% health... He has marked him or her self as someone to be dazed

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:why on earth would you use coolant blast with buffed burn duration? unless you're resigned to never use cauterize. imo med kit is the best heal for any engi build.

Cauterize always applies 3 seconds of fire damage per condi, without your condition damage modifier.