Path of Fire, Masteries, and the issue of "character progression"

Before I get to the topic I want to discuss, I just want to say that less than a month after release and I've completed most of what there is to complete in PoF, minus a small number of bounties and a handful of random achievements. I know I'm not the only one. In fact, it took me far less time to get to this point with PoF than it did with HoT.

That leads me to character progression . This game, and its developers, have made it clear that progression is not about the infamous "gear treadmill". I, for one, love that about this game. I have played virtually every MMO of the last decade and gear treadmills are awful. GW2 tackles character progression in a number of ways and it's evolved over the years. I felt like the mastery system was a gigantic leap forward when it was introduced in HoT.

In HoT, the 4 basic Masteries (Gliding, Itzel, Exalted,Nuhoch) cost 31,31,19,31 mastery points respectively for a total of 112 mastery points.

In PoF, the 4 basic mount Masteries (Raptor, Bunny, Skimmer, Jackal) cost 10,14,14,14 mastery points respectively for a total of 52 mastery points. The griffon costs 12 to bring the total up to 64.

That is nearly half of the mastery points that HoT had and I feel like it's a big reason why PoF lacks the feeling of character progression that HoT had. I'm holding out hope that there is something else coming, but as it stands the expansion is a step back from HoT when it comes to character progression in my eyes. My characters are essentially the same character it was before PoF, but with mounts. In HoT, my characters got gliding, learned how to interact with different objects in the different biomes, earned mastery to be able to barter and even gathering effects.

I really don't want this to come across as bashing any of the content and masteries that DO exist in PoF because I think the mount system is fantastic, but it just feels like we're missing a good chunk of content, in the form of character progression, somehow.

The only character progression we have in the game are character levels and Hero Points. Masteries are account progression.

It's not like most of the HoT masteries were very useful at all, except in certain situations within the expansion zones. It certainly didn't feel like character progression to me, but that being said, I do think the masteries are a nice little system.

The elite specs are the main course of character progression after hitting lvl 80. It's unrealistic to think that we should be able to progress and "upgrade" our characters constantly, to me it's enough we get some new toys every 2-ish years. GW2 has plenty of end-game content to aim for, just take your pick. After you've hit 36k AP and have three sets of legendary armor, everything in wardrobe unlocked and every legendary weapon crafted, then you can come back and say there's nothing to do.

@Hevoskuuri.3891 said:It's not like most of the HoT masteries were very useful at all, except in certain situations within the expansion zones. It certainly didn't feel like character progression to me, but that being said, I do think the masteries are a nice little system.

The elite specs are the main course of character progression after hitting lvl 80. It's unrealistic to think that we should be able to progress and "upgrade" our characters constantly, to me it's enough we get some new toys every 2-ish years. GW2 has plenty of end-game content to aim for, just take your pick. After you've hit 36k AP and have three sets of legendary armor, everything in wardrobe unlocked and every legendary weapon crafted, then you can come back and say there's nothing to do.

I never said there wasn't anything to do. But progression and min/maxing every possible thing in game are not the same. Meaningful progression is essential to gameplay imho. The legendaries that I have were not part of any kind of progression other than spending time farming to get skins that I wanted. I'm speaking of progression in terms of advancing my character (or account as somebody mentioned masteries are account wide) in a way beyond minute stat %'s.

I don't view the elite specs in PoF as meaningful character progression since you can acquire your full spec extremely fast.

The closest to account progression in PoF outside of mounts are the achievements to unlock the Primeval steward.

HoT took longer because Anet made it artificially longer by requiring tons of XP per mastery level which also helped to gate content behind masteries for a greater amount of time.

I don't know of any MMO that has continual character progression. Every MMO that I have played adds a certain amount of progression with certain content additions. People get through that progression at varying rates, then those who completed it relatively quickly complain that they feel their character isn't going anywhere. That's just the way it is with a game that doesn't have infinite progression.

I suppose there will come a time when a MMO will find a way to have infinite progression - then players will complain that they don't get a break ;P

Elite masteries should come from story completion, not from clicking on random points on the map. Points with no meaning or purpose other than that they glow for no reason.

I agree with the OP that PoF feels light in part because there are so many fewer mastery points (and master XP) required. HoT felt "too heavy" in that many of the 'extra' mastery steps seemed lackluster, arbitrary, or capricious, simply in order to bulk up the requirements.

For example, all the mount masteries feel useful (some are incredibly useful) everywhere in PoF and often outside the desert, too. In contrast, very few of HoT masteries have any value outside of niche situations specific to HoT.

• Gliding: generally great, except for ley-line gliding & updraft, since there are entire sections of HoT maps without ley-lines and/or updrafts.
• Itzel Lore: Outside of HoT, there are no bouncing mushrooms, Itzel vendors, Speed Mushrooms, Itzel Poison (which only exists in small areas), Itzel fights, or Adrenal Mushrooms.
• Exalted Lore: Outside of HoT, there are no Exalted Markings, Exalted Vendors, Exalted Recalls, Exalted Champions, or Exalted Gathering
• Nuhoch Lore: Outside of HoT, there are no special trophies, Wallows, Nuhoch vendors, Nuhoch-stealthed creatures, Nuhoch champions, or acid-spitting Chak

So ironically, the less useful HoT masteries take far longer to max than the useful-everywhere ones from PoF. And that, as the OP suggests, makes PoF seem too light, in contrast.

It is wonderful this way imho.

My character has a new elite which i could have used Since the beginning of the expansion, and the masteries are pretty fast ( and mastery points easy to obtain ).Hot masteries should have been fast to obtain like pof.

About character progression i, personally, don't need any ( cause being forced to do the same things with every character is stupid ). Account progression instead could be really appreciated ( i mean that is fine the way it cirrently is ), but Depends how they intend to do it.

I don't need progression. I need fun. Progression for the sake of progression leads to boredom. Make me want to play your game and leave "carrot-chasin" to games that are too boring to keep players any other way.

You know what they say: "If you can't make it fun, make it addictive."