How are you supposed to get any of shortbows bonus effects against anyone?

Unless your opponent is being nice and just turns around so you can hit them in the back i see the shortbow bonuses while flanking almost never comming up, any reason this weapon is so terribly designed? I tried to use it multiple times but the damage is always so bad. There is no reason or way you will ever be behind either a ranged or a melee player, as they are facing you to attack you. Like what is the point/thought process on this weapon?

Forcing the flank with another teamate, when we made use of this build for a time. Shortbow ranger hasn't ever gotten much attention so it's kind of outdated.

It's a borderline thief weapon, mostly useful in 'unfair' fights where you join as a +1. Most effective in close range, although projectiles are rather lackluster against proper kiting; not just LoS, but kiting through the enemy aswell. So... in theory it's decent for giving chase, if only the range wasn't so mediocre. Unfortunately the available mobility enhancers (Quick Shot, Lightning Reflexes) are not very effective at closing gaps, leaving you with either the soulbeast's merge skills to do this or to focus on applying cripple and immobilize, usually by means of the druid's Ancient Seeds trait. The latter works to some extent as it enables you to setup for teammates.

Shortbow is an super outdated weapon and they even had the audacity to nerf the Power Coefficient and Sharpened Edges. Shortbow was so prevalent in PvP (/s) they increased cooldown on Quick Shot. It needs so much setup and help from traits/utilities.

They really need to stop with the flanking bonuses on Light on your Feet. Also, temporary Condition Duration bonus on DODGE ? Really !? Everything right now on Light on your Feet should be Baseline Shortbow and then given a new buff or direction to LoyF.

Crossfire gives 1.5 sec of bleed untraited, then compare it to untraited : Necro Scepter (4.5s) or Engi Pistol (5s) or Renegade Shortbow (4s) or Ele Earth Scepter (6s).

IMO, it needs a overhaul, it's terrible. Yeah, I know it is used for sPvE, but D/T+A/D build can do it better.

@Krispera.5087 said:Shortbow is an super outdated weapon and they even had the audacity to nerf the Power Coefficient and Sharpened Edges. Shortbow was so prevalent in PvP (/s) they increased cooldown on Quick Shot. It needs so much setup and help from traits/utilities.

They really need to stop with the flanking bonuses on Light on your Feet. Also, temporary Condition Duration bonus on DODGE ? Really !? Everything right now on Light on your Feet should be Baseline Shortbow and then given a new buff or direction to LoyF.

Crossfire gives 1.5 sec of bleed untraited, then compare it to untraited : Necro Scepter (4.5s) or Engi Pistol (5s) or Renegade Shortbow (4s) or Ele Earth Scepter (6s).

IMO, it needs a overhaul, it's terrible. Yeah, I know it is used for sPvE, but D/T+A/D build can do it better.

I don't get why they won't just rework it, ive been wanting to use it for ages but it just won't work, even in WvW those root druids just do meh damage.

You're not supposed to play Ranger in PvP or WvW. It's a PvE class.

You aren't supposed to get it

Anet just gives 0 fucks about Ranger so don't expect it to change any time soon

Asking for shortbow to be reworked will likely see it nerfed even more.

Unpopular opinion, will be flamed: shortbow doesn't fit with how most Rangers think the Ranger playstyle should work, therefore they conclude that it's a bad weapon. I agree with the guy above who said it's almost thief-style weapon - that is not a bad thing.

Source: I have mained a zerk shortbow sw/d Ranger in WvW solo/duo roaming from specialization patch (RIP Bark Skin melee ranger) until PoF when the damage output became non-viable. Most recent balance update has made it viable again. Hmu in game if anyone would like to spar in Armistice.

@Krispera.5087 said:It needs so much setup and help from traits/utilities.This is definitely true. In a perfect game, all weaponsets should need synergies from other parts of a build to be good, but I can think of tons of weapons in GW2 where this isn't the case (Ranger longbow springs to mind)

@Krispera.5087 said:They really need to stop with the flanking bonuses on Light on your Feet. Also, temporary Condition Duration bonus on DODGE ? Really !? Everything right now on Light on your Feet should be Baseline Shortbow and then given a new buff or direction to LoyF.Rewarding a player's positioning is a good mechanic and something other games do very well, but is rare in GW2. I think Light on your Feet is ok, given how much you can synergise it in the Skirmishing and Wildy lines. Making it baseline with shortbow is a bad idea and would result in nerfs, that would be far too strong in sPvP.

@Krispera.5087 said:Crossfire gives 1.5 sec of bleed untraited, then compare it to untraited : Necro Scepter (4.5s) or Engi Pistol (5s) or Renegade Shortbow (4s) or Ele Earth Scepter (6s).Crossfire can fire like 1.5 times a second, Ranger also has lots of access to Quickness making it like 2.5 times a second. Crossfire also has a decent power coefficient for such a frequently hitting skill. All three of these properties make it a much more versatile and distinct skill than the ones you mentioned, so comparing them is really apples and oranges.

TL;DR: IMO, Ranger has ample options in weapon choices that excel in a specific category of build. Shortbow is indeed an anomaly in that it is a versatile weapon that offers alot of utility, but does not specifically excel in any one field because of the utility that is built in. I obviously wouldn't be against some coefficients/effects being brought up to the modern standard, but I don't believe it needs a rework.

@"Vendetta.1958" said:Unpopular opinion, will be flamed: shortbow doesn't fit with how most Rangers think the Ranger playstyle should work, therefore they conclude that it's a bad weapon.

I'm getting "1h sword glue is a good thing and here's why" flashbacks

In PvE its easy, in PvP though its great in 2v1 scenario when you kite and force the foe to not focus you and its also good while chasing, otherwise you should use your D/D or S/D cause SB is terrible in 1v1.

In PvE utalize the pet to take aggro while you attack from behind.. in PVP it's not a great weapon unless you can gank someone with an ally or set up a lot of stuns, imobs etc and hope the enemy has no breaks.

Personally I wouldn't use it in PvP and I do not particulatly care about flanking limitation on it either, specially since Ranger has severely limited condition access on it's core weapon skills.

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Vendetta.1958" said:Unpopular opinion, will be flamed: shortbow doesn't fit with how most Rangers think the Ranger playstyle should work, therefore they conclude that it's a bad weapon.

shrug anet can rework it if they want, not sure it needs it but after the monarch's change i trust them

@Vendetta.1958 said:Unpopular opinion, will be flamed: shortbow doesn't fit with how most Rangers think the Ranger playstyle should work, therefore they conclude that it's a bad weapon. I agree with the guy above who said it's almost thief-style weapon - that is not a bad thing.

Rewarding a player's positioning is a good mechanic and something other games do very well, but is rare in GW2. I think Light on your Feet is ok, given how much you can synergise it in the Skirmishing and Wildy lines. Making it baseline with shortbow is a bad idea and would result in nerfs, that would be far too strong in sPvP.

I obviously wouldn't be against some coefficients/effects being brought up to the modern standard, but I don't believe it needs a rework.

This is where we disagree, proper positioning is in my opinion very much rewarded in GW2, just not neccesarily represented as such in skills and traits. A ranger with a shortbow is countered by simply facing the ranger, denying the flanking bonusses, just as for example the longbow skill #2's channeled ability is countered by kiting through the ranger.

A general rule of thumb for players fighting your average ranger is to fight at range if they use GS, fight in close quarters if they use LB, yet no weapon is countered so hard or easily as the shortbow is, especially if the ranger relies on condition damage. Atleast GS has a gap closer and defensive capabilities, LB has the range, a pushback and stealth.SB has no means of applying the pressure that forces enemies to kite away, thus relying on your allies, pets' and utility skills to stun/launch/immobilize in order for you to play to your strengths. Considering how Wilderness Knowledge + Survival skills (stunbreaks) are near mandatory, there's not a lot of options for offensive utilities really.

Having said all that, I do like how much the positioning is rewarded and I would very much like to enjoy the SB playstyle, but it's just very lackluster when fighting skilled opponements. Part of the reason it's seen moderate succes in the past is that power SB doesn't rely as much on the flanking bonus, but noone in their right mind would argue it's got reliable condition damage outside of PvE. For power builds our other weapon options are just generally superior.

Seriously? What happened to the community knowledge? The wording is flanking or behind, flanking also means the sides of players, so if we imagine a circle cut into 4ths with the player's face being the center of one corner, the the other 3 angles left (270 degrees) is bonus effect hit space. So 1v1 its a bit harder to do but with good kiting its somewhat possible. In fights where you aren't the focus it's quite easy.

@Eurantien.4632 said:Seriously? What happened to the community knowledge? The wording is flanking or behind, flanking also means the sides of players, so if we imagine a circle cut into 4ths with the player's face being the center of one corner, the the other 3 angles left (270 degrees) is bonus effect hit space. So 1v1 its a bit harder to do but with good kiting its somewhat possible. In fights where you aren't the focus it's quite easy.

No matter the speed at which my character moves, if my opponement is skilled, uses the mouse to turn and is focussed on me, he can 100% prevent the flanking bonus.It's not a mathematical problem, deduced by 3/4 directions you attack from are effective.

@JorneMormel.9850 said:It's a borderline thief weapon, mostly useful in 'unfair' fights where you join as a +1.

I'm not denying its' usefulness in group combat where I'm not being focussed, the problem is 1v1 (or 1vX) where I am. Again; it's seen relative succes, even in competitive, but mostly on power builds because flanking just isn't as reliable as you might think.

This problem is magnified on condition damage builds because their main source of damage depends on the flanking bonus.

@JorneMormel.9850

Thats why you have pets that can CC

How are you supposed to get any of shortbows bonus effects against anyone?

@Eurantien.4632 said:Thats why you have pets that can CC

/Thread

Still doesn't solve any of the glaring issues with this weapon, which is the reason for the OP to pose this question.

@JorneMormel.9850 said:

How are you supposed to get any of shortbows bonus effects against anyone?

@Eurantien.4632 said:Thats why you have pets that can CC

I think the biggest issue with it is that it has no good weapon swap counterpart. S/d doesn't pressure enough anymore. Torch is the worst. And a/x means you have poor survivability once they're on top of you.

The most common weapon I have seen used by rangers in WvW since the patch is the shortbow, all of whom have been running condition oriented builds.

Speaking from the experience gained from those whom I have fought against so far, the Shortbow is outputting rather tremendous condition pressure, with frequent applications of bleeding and poison stacks along with a high uptime of immobilization.

The rangers who run these condition builds, while all are using the shortbow, seem to have some variation in elite spec choice. I have played against condi soulbeasts, condi druids, and core rangers.

The Shortbow does not seem weak in WvW roaming at all. I have adapted much of my roaming build to be able to counter these specs.

I do not know how Shortbow performs in sPvP.

On 3/20/2020 at 3:15 AM, Soilder.3607 said:

The most common weapon I have seen used by rangers in WvW since the patch is the shortbow, all of whom have been running condition oriented builds.

Speaking from the experience gained from those whom I have fought against so far, the Shortbow is outputting rather tremendous condition pressure, with frequent applications of bleeding and poison stacks along with a high uptime of immobilization.

The rangers who run these condition builds, while all are using the shortbow, seem to have some variation in elite spec choice. I have played against condi soulbeasts, condi druids, and core rangers.

The Shortbow does not seem weak in WvW roaming at all. I have adapted much of my roaming build to be able to counter these specs.

I do not know how Shortbow performs in sPvP.

I use axe and torch and i have more success with it then shortbow