Not really enjoying PvP anymore — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Not really enjoying PvP anymore

Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

TL;DR Going to be giving PvP a break until further changes. Not finding the current meta at all enjoyable.

This isn't a "Boohoo I'm quitting this dumb game" post but just trying to give a personal account around my experience in PvP lately and why I'm putting it on the back burner for now. Usually I spend about 95% of my time in the game doing PvP (or wvw) but as the changes are settling and a meta starts to form I'm not really having any fun in PvP now days. At first I was really excited for the big patch to shake things up. The first week or so was great. Lots of people trying wacky builds and having to adapt on the fly to what's being played. By now though people have started to narrow down what's strongest and a meta has started to form. Anet has not been moving as fast on the initial updates as I would have hoped either so it seems like things are going to be this way for a while.

So what have I been seeing?

  1. Some of the professions that were the strongest picks before are still the strongest after the patch, even if the builds are different. Firebrand and revenant mainly are still top tier. There are a few that moved up and down though.
  2. It looks like we're moving into a CC heavy meta which is probably the worst meta focus I could think of. CC takes away player agency and is about the most un-fun mechanic to deal with. Firebrands, revs, scrappers, tempest, and condi druids stacked together make for a ridiculous amount of CC. You can lock down a target(s) for more than enough time to get a kill and straight up prevent them from casting any skills.
  3. Condi is more prevalent after the patch. While power may still technically be "better" it's much easier to get value out of condi now too. Not to mention condi allows you to build tanky while still doing respectable damage which leads me to my next point.
  4. There are lots of builds surfacing that are much too tanky(cough core necro *cough). I think this one of the reasons people are building with large amounts of CC, to lock down these bunker builds so they can actually kill them.

These are things I've been experiencing in both 2s and 5s and multiple different professions. When going against comps running heavy CC, heavy condi with bunker builds the best option is just to mirror it and try to outplay them. The disparity between what is best and everything else still feels pretty big and this really narrows the field in your options for 'adapting' to these situations. The best builds and comps showing up are not just a hands width better than everything else but leaps and bounds more effective. We can see Anet is working hard and rolling out patches faster than usual. I don't claim to have the solutions either but I just hope Anet will start more patches rolling soon and/or
a) Constantly keep the meta in flux and changing
b) Close the gap between what is best and everything else.

Until then I'll just be keep on eye on PvP from a distance hoping for more interesting stuff to happen. Right now it's just not enjoyable for me.

Depression and anxiety are the worst...

Comments

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2020

    And I still love it.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    And I still love it.

    Well, thats good? What do you enjoy about it?

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭

    Well ... not that wrong this opinion. Though somewhat it is possible to still get a bit fun by clicking the correct queue button. (Hint: This time it is the left one. ;) Other one only leading to boring 2 vs. 2 with even the least boring map removed atm. Don't forget to only check the conquest checkbox otherwise boring stronghold might pop up in unranked.)

    Personally I find the unkillable builds annoying. (Likea the ones that can deal no damage but run around ... which is okay when I CC them out of the area to cap and they can't uncap but some team members tend to try killing them and then it's 3 vs. 1 trying to kill him and of course he stays at 90 percent and the other guys of own team get outnumbered. elsewhere. :D)

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    love it too

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2020

    Same, still waiting for the conquest season to see how ot plays out.

    Fighring against necros in v2s is painful and boring, since you cant exploit their low mobility

    I still feel fb and rev have too much of everything

    And I have a bad feeling about thief in tje upcoming season, it'll be the necro of conquest if you know what I mean, especially cuz now they can get away with zerker amulet

    I hope anet manage to adress those classes, cuz that small patch post patch haven't done much specially to fb

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    Same, still waiting for the conquest season to see how ot plays out.

    Fighring against necros in v2s is painful and boring, since you cant exploit their low mobility

    I still feel fb and necro have too much of everything

    And I have a bad feeling about thief in tje upcoming season, it'll be the necro of conquest if you know what I mean, especially cuz now they can get away with zerker amulet

    I hope anet manage to adress those classes, cuz that small patch post patch haven't done much specially to fb

    It's not even that core necro ( I specify core because reaper and scourge are not nearly as bad) has everything, just too much of one thing, lf generation.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • I feel the same way about the meta. It's boring for a lot of people because the style of nerf they're doing isn't very creative or exciting. Just multiplicative damage nerfs and CD increases. 😴

    That might feel great to some people. Clearly it does, but just like every other balance patch before it, it still puts people at odds.

    I still play though, for dailies and the sparkling conversation with map chat in the lobby.

    Remove or Split DuoQ, revolution of our time! 😷

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:
    Same, still waiting for the conquest season to see how ot plays out.

    Fighring against necros in v2s is painful and boring, since you cant exploit their low mobility

    I still feel fb and necro have too much of everything

    And I have a bad feeling about thief in tje upcoming season, it'll be the necro of conquest if you know what I mean, especially cuz now they can get away with zerker amulet

    I hope anet manage to adress those classes, cuz that small patch post patch haven't done much specially to fb

    It's not even that core necro ( I specify core because reaper and scourge are not nearly as bad) has everything, just too much of one thing, lf generation.

    i meant rev, not necro

  • MethaneGas.8357MethaneGas.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    How does condi allow you to be more tanky? You only get Vitality with Carrion....

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭

    @MethaneGas.8357 said:
    How does condi allow you to be more tanky? You only get Vitality with Carrion....

    There is 1 thougness Amulett too

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    Being cc chained from 100 to 0 isnt fun. Higher tiers are running cc heavy power comps from what I've seen. It's pretty easy to lock down a player. It can make matches pretty one sided when there is no chance to counter 3 enemies ccing you for 5 seconds. Not trying to complain but the meta isnt healthy as it is. You can argue that it requires skill to coordinate cc with a team but honestly it's not that hard

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I also find myself playing less although I have more free time. I do enjoy 2v2, but I feel like being a liability.

  • Xca.9721Xca.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    For 5v5 we will have to wait for the ranked season to begin. I don´t see Condi Rev that good in 5v5, and I also don´t see many rev players at all.

  • Ysmir.4986Ysmir.4986 Member ✭✭✭

    While I agree that the situation is not perfect, for me it’s still very much preferable to what we had before patch. I can get away playing different things since the game isn’t powercreeeped to kitten anymore.

    As for CC, I don’t really understand your point. There is the same amount of cc as before and it doesn’t do damage as it used to + the damage overall is toned down. Really any situation where you get footballed and then die is when you’re single targeted in a team fight but that’s really how things should be.

    I think CmC said in a stream that they are thinking of removing some cc on skills and replace them with direct damage. We’ll see.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was angry at first. Naturally, I was expecting a clear and immediate improvement and was disappointed that we hadn't achieved Utopia overnight. But once I got used to the new feel of my favored class, I guess I would say that I am just as comfortable with the current meta as I was with the previous one. The names and faces have changed, but I'm enjoying PvP just as I did before.

    I'm not sure if that's good or bad for the game? I guess attention paid to PvP is better than the alternative! So, all in all, I'm good! Keep it coming!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ysmir.4986 said:
    While I agree that the situation is not perfect, for me it’s still very much preferable to what we had before patch. I can get away playing different things since the game isn’t powercreeeped to kitten anymore.

    Some stuff is defiantly better. I do prefer the lower power scaling overall as it did open up some more builds for general play. Even though more builds are playable they still don't stand a chance against what's best. Go up against something like a double condi rev, FB, tempest comp and you're just a hacky sack that's full of condi. Before I would get burst down and be done. Now I get to franticly mash buttons and hope that I can get a skill off between stuns and maybe live another 2 seconds.

    As for CC, I don’t really understand your point. There is the same amount of cc as before and it doesn’t do damage as it used to + the damage overall is toned down. Really any situation where you get footballed and then die is when you’re single targeted in a team fight but that’s really how things should be.

    CC is more impactful overall now with sources of stab being reduced and stun break cooldowns being increased. CC might not deal any damage but it's easier to make CC "stick" now. The strong part off CC has always been the CC part, even if it did good damage. You're right though that if you get focused by the enemy team you're gonna get clapped. That's how it has been and always will be. The difference, to me at least, is before you were more able to get a stun break/stab off in an attempt to reposition and sustain after the focused started. Now once the CC starts rolling in you might as well take a sip of tea and wait to die because it doesn't stop till you're dead. Does this happen every fight? No, it mostly just happens when I'm up against higher tier players and pre-mades but that's where the strongest stuff is played.

    I think CmC said in a stream that they are thinking of removing some cc on skills and replace them with direct damage. We’ll see.

    That's good to hear, didn't know that.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I was angry at first. Naturally, I was expecting a clear and immediate improvement and was disappointed that we hadn't achieved Utopia overnight. But once I got used to the new feel of my favored class, I guess I would say that I am just as comfortable with the current meta as I was with the previous one. The names and faces have changed, but I'm enjoying PvP just as I did before.

    I'm not sure if that's good or bad for the game? I guess attention paid to PvP is better than the alternative! So, all in all, I'm good! Keep it coming!

    I was the opposite. I was really pleased with it starting out and found it fun. As things start to settle though I'm becoming less impressed. I do hope they keep rolling out changes though. It's more important that they keep the changes frequent than trying to make things "perfect" by dropping big changes every now and then.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    there is a change in the amount of cc cuz ppl are packing more of it into their builds, and stun breaks / stab that was reliable in the past gets used up and put on cd faster cuz of that and the cd increases.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    And I still love it.

    Well, thats good? What do you enjoy about it?

    Context:

    I have almost entirely played 5v5 unranked since the 25th February 2020. Right now I play a Berserker amulet core Engineer. I play an hour or two a day. I was a GW and GW2 fan boy since the first beta events of both games. But since the release of HoT and up until the February 2020 reset patch I did not PvP that much because I strongly disliked the game play.

    Why:

    Here is, from the top of my head and in no particular order, why I like the game much, much better now:

    Thanks to the overall lower damage, I can finally play my favourite profession and build again without being a free kill. The reduction is so great I in fact can myself run a very squishy DPS amulet.

    The gap between the FOTM builds and other builds is smaller than before. This is an incredibly refreshing change.

    CC dealing no damage is great. Now bursts require a modicum of setting up. CC needs to be followed up by damage if you want to make something out of it. Pressing one button isn't enough anymore.

    Abilities that had damage, CC and avoidance of incoming damage all rolled in one are gone. That alone is one of the healthiest changes I can think of.

    AAs that took out big chunks of players' health pools are gone. Autoattacking shouldn't be a way to seriously pressure an opponent.

    There isn't one be-all and end-all combo anymore. Before the 25th the same rotation applied to almost any situation. That's in my book extremely boring game play. There is a very interesting and rather old video of 2 great Revenant players highlighting this point. I'll link it if I manage to find it.

    The longer CDs are great. Using an ability at the wrong time is more punishing. Patience is key.

    The game play feels far more reactive. Since you're not forced to chain abilities together anymore only to survive (and often at the same time deal big damage and CC) you can now adjust to what your opponent is doing. Outsmarting another player and then being one shotted by an unavoidable combo (that also made your opponent invulnerable in one way or another) was extremely frustrating. I'm so happy that is all gone.

    You actually have to work for your kills. Wait out the opponent's CDs, use your CC at an opportune time, follow up with damage, etc. Firing a hugely damaging and low CD ability through layers of defence in hopes it connects isn't good enough anymore.

    Actual team play is required. There are no more portable nukes that pop other players in a second or two. The difference between players working together and players doing their thing only is bigger than ever.

    Corpse play matters. The downed state used to be central to GW PvP before the expansions destroyed that mini game. Stomping, launching downed players, interrupting a player resurrecting his ally, applying poison, AoE CC and cleave on a downed opponent, etc. Those small plays all have use again and add another layer to the game.

    All good?

    No. Stuff needs more nerfing. Just to name the one ability I'm abusing ATM: Explosive Entrance. That ability and the associated traits feel like they were designed before the 25th paradigm change. They all need to be lowered in efficiency.

    Ending words

    Anyone who wants to dismiss my opinion because I'm a scrub I'm saving you some time: yes, like I said, I have only PvPed sporadically since HoT because I believed and I still believe that the game play had changed for the worse with both expansions.

    Peace out and have fun. Or don't.

    Thanks for the feedback! It's the whole point of having a good forum discussion. I was hoping to get some other people's opinions on here who are enjoying things. The reason we might have such radically different views too is due to the different environments we play in. I'm not a "top" player but a bit above average with several thousand hours in PvP so the stuff I run into and notice is probably different from what you run into and notice. Its good to have the different perspectives though.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Same here. SPvP is the worst in my experience. Everything thing is kitten slow... and of course, it CC meta.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Same here. SPvP is the worst in my experience. Everything thing is kitten slow... and of course, it CC meta.

    Remember a bunch of people were on here saying that "cc is going to be more meaningful" and "you'll need to cooridnate it more"

    What a load of BS

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Same here. SPvP is the worst in my experience. Everything thing is kitten slow... and of course, it CC meta.

    If pvp ia slow you are doing something wrong. What build are running?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Same here. SPvP is the worst in my experience. Everything thing is kitten slow... and of course, it CC meta.

    If pvp ia slow you are doing something wrong. What build are running?

    It does not matter. From personal experience, games have been lasting between 15-20% longer than before. I have seen more game end by timer, since the patch (instead of achieving 500 points) than I have since I started playing GW2.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 and @Cal Cohen.2358 I am sure you guys can pull this. How long is the average game now compared to pre-patch?

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Same here. SPvP is the worst in my experience. Everything thing is kitten slow... and of course, it CC meta.

    If pvp ia slow you are doing something wrong. What build are running?

    It does not matter. From personal experience, games have been lasting between 15-20% longer than before. I have seen more game end by timer, since the patch (instead of achieving 500 points) than I have since I started playing GW2.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 and @Cal Cohen.2358 I am sure you guys can pull this. How long is the average game now compared to pre-patch?

    Remember you are playing unranked. Scuffed matches are part of unranked. I dont think the meta shake up will change match duration drastically. What you dont have that much anymore is crazy point holders like water weaver etc. Therefore decaps will come through more often. That only makes the game mmore interessting.

  • I love 5 vs 5 but 2 vs 2 really hate

  • Ysmir.4986Ysmir.4986 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Ysmir.4986 said:
    While I agree that the situation is not perfect, for me it’s still very much preferable to what we had before patch. I can get away playing different things since the game isn’t powercreeeped to kitten anymore.

    Some stuff is defiantly better. I do prefer the lower power scaling overall as it did open up some more builds for general play. Even though more builds are playable they still don't stand a chance against what's best. Go up against something like a double condi rev, FB, tempest comp and you're just a hacky sack that's full of condi. Before I would get burst down and be done. Now I get to franticly mash buttons and hope that I can get a skill off between stuns and maybe live another 2 seconds.

    I mean there will always be a meta, so there are always going to be builds better than other. I was having fun recently playing core engineer grenades, something I would never have been able to play pre patch. And against worse players, I can even win 1v1s (vs slb/ranger, sb, fb and ele - only class I find kind of oppressive is condi rev). And that build is more for memes than anything else, I play it purely for fun but it's a good feeling to be able to perform on it. Now of course, on equal skill level, I could never hope to beat a "meta" build, and I think that's perfectly fine.

    As for CC, I don’t really understand your point. There is the same amount of cc as before and it doesn’t do damage as it used to + the damage overall is toned down. Really any situation where you get footballed and then die is when you’re single targeted in a team fight but that’s really how things should be.

    CC is more impactful overall now with sources of stab being reduced and stun break cooldowns being increased. CC might not deal any damage but it's easier to make CC "stick" now. The strong part off CC has always been the CC part, even if it did good damage. You're right though that if you get focused by the enemy team you're gonna get clapped. That's how it has been and always will be. The difference, to me at least, is before you were more able to get a stun break/stab off in an attempt to reposition and sustain after the focused started. Now once the CC starts rolling in you might as well take a sip of tea and wait to die because it doesn't stop till you're dead. Does this happen every fight? No, it mostly just happens when I'm up against higher tier players and pre-mades but that's where the strongest stuff is played.

    You kind of touched on what I was thinking, as in cc feels more impactful. I think people are feeling cc as being more oppressive now because of the fact that it doesn't do damage anymore. Against rampage, you would get a stomp for 5k, and then bolder for 8k, and then rush for 8k and then it was basically gg. CC chains are now much longer and so we feel them more.

    I recently dueled a sb with GH /Sw:M and was basically permastunned, but the guy wasn't doing any damage to me. It was an interesting exercise in that there were some cc chains that had gaps where I needed to break stun, and if I did it at any other point I would be locked in again and my break stun would be wasted. My point being is that because, yes you are right, breakstun and stab are less common now the game pushes you to use your resources more intelligently, which I ultimately find more rewarding.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ysmir.4986 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Ysmir.4986 said:
    While I agree that the situation is not perfect, for me it’s still very much preferable to what we had before patch. I can get away playing different things since the game isn’t powercreeeped to kitten anymore.

    Some stuff is defiantly better. I do prefer the lower power scaling overall as it did open up some more builds for general play. Even though more builds are playable they still don't stand a chance against what's best. Go up against something like a double condi rev, FB, tempest comp and you're just a hacky sack that's full of condi. Before I would get burst down and be done. Now I get to franticly mash buttons and hope that I can get a skill off between stuns and maybe live another 2 seconds.

    I mean there will always be a meta, so there are always going to be builds better than other. I was having fun recently playing core engineer grenades, something I would never have been able to play pre patch. And against worse players, I can even win 1v1s (vs slb/ranger, sb, fb and ele - only class I find kind of oppressive is condi rev). And that build is more for memes than anything else, I play it purely for fun but it's a good feeling to be able to perform on it. Now of course, on equal skill level, I could never hope to beat a "meta" build, and I think that's perfectly fine.

    My point is the distance between what is best and what is meta is still pretty big. Same as you if I fight someone same skill level or higher on a non-meta build and they are running meta I don't stand chance. I was hoping things would get pushed closer to where fighting meta on something off-meta would be harder, but do-abl. If its someone a lower skill level it doesn't really matter what I play.

    As for CC, I don’t really understand your point. There is the same amount of cc as before and it doesn’t do damage as it used to + the damage overall is toned down. Really any situation where you get footballed and then die is when you’re single targeted in a team fight but that’s really how things should be.

    CC is more impactful overall now with sources of stab being reduced and stun break cooldowns being increased. CC might not deal any damage but it's easier to make CC "stick" now. The strong part off CC has always been the CC part, even if it did good damage. You're right though that if you get focused by the enemy team you're gonna get clapped. That's how it has been and always will be. The difference, to me at least, is before you were more able to get a stun break/stab off in an attempt to reposition and sustain after the focused started. Now once the CC starts rolling in you might as well take a sip of tea and wait to die because it doesn't stop till you're dead. Does this happen every fight? No, it mostly just happens when I'm up against higher tier players and pre-mades but that's where the strongest stuff is played.

    You kind of touched on what I was thinking, as in cc feels more impactful. I think people are feeling cc as being more oppressive now because of the fact that it doesn't do damage anymore. Against rampage, you would get a stomp for 5k, and then bolder for 8k, and then rush for 8k and then it was basically gg. CC chains are now much longer and so we feel them more.

    I recently dueled a sb with GH /Sw:M and was basically permastunned, but the guy wasn't doing any damage to me. It was an interesting exercise in that there were some cc chains that had gaps where I needed to break stun, and if I did it at any other point I would be locked in again and my break stun would be wasted. My point being is that because, yes you are right, breakstun and stab are less common now the game pushes you to use your resources more intelligently, which I ultimately find more rewarding.

    1v1 it's not a problem. You can just wait out the stun chain because there is no damage. XvX though if someone is stun chaining you, you'll get melted by spam damage just from not being able to recoup. Even if it takes "more coordination and skill", getting CC chained in any game (single or multiplayer) is not a fun game mechanic. Even if its technically balanced I think this is a situation in which the fun should override balance.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ysmir.4986 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Ysmir.4986 said:
    While I agree that the situation is not perfect, for me it’s still very much preferable to what we had before patch. I can get away playing different things since the game isn’t powercreeeped to kitten anymore.

    Some stuff is defiantly better. I do prefer the lower power scaling overall as it did open up some more builds for general play. Even though more builds are playable they still don't stand a chance against what's best. Go up against something like a double condi rev, FB, tempest comp and you're just a hacky sack that's full of condi. Before I would get burst down and be done. Now I get to franticly mash buttons and hope that I can get a skill off between stuns and maybe live another 2 seconds.

    I mean there will always be a meta, so there are always going to be builds better than other. I was having fun recently playing core engineer grenades, something I would never have been able to play pre patch. And against worse players, I can even win 1v1s (vs slb/ranger, sb, fb and ele - only class I find kind of oppressive is condi rev). And that build is more for memes than anything else, I play it purely for fun but it's a good feeling to be able to perform on it. Now of course, on equal skill level, I could never hope to beat a "meta" build, and I think that's perfectly fine.

    As for CC, I don’t really understand your point. There is the same amount of cc as before and it doesn’t do damage as it used to + the damage overall is toned down. Really any situation where you get footballed and then die is when you’re single targeted in a team fight but that’s really how things should be.

    CC is more impactful overall now with sources of stab being reduced and stun break cooldowns being increased. CC might not deal any damage but it's easier to make CC "stick" now. The strong part off CC has always been the CC part, even if it did good damage. You're right though that if you get focused by the enemy team you're gonna get clapped. That's how it has been and always will be. The difference, to me at least, is before you were more able to get a stun break/stab off in an attempt to reposition and sustain after the focused started. Now once the CC starts rolling in you might as well take a sip of tea and wait to die because it doesn't stop till you're dead. Does this happen every fight? No, it mostly just happens when I'm up against higher tier players and pre-mades but that's where the strongest stuff is played.

    You kind of touched on what I was thinking, as in cc feels more impactful. I think people are feeling cc as being more oppressive now because of the fact that it doesn't do damage anymore. Against rampage, you would get a stomp for 5k, and then bolder for 8k, and then rush for 8k and then it was basically gg. CC chains are now much longer and so we feel them more.

    I recently dueled a sb with GH /Sw:M and was basically permastunned, but the guy wasn't doing any damage to me. It was an interesting exercise in that there were some cc chains that had gaps where I needed to break stun, and if I did it at any other point I would be locked in again and my break stun would be wasted. My point being is that because, yes you are right, breakstun and stab are less common now the game pushes you to use your resources more intelligently, which I ultimately find more rewarding.

    It's possible that's what we're seeing. But I think it's that people are much more likely to slot CC than CC defense in their builds. The idea being that CC defense is rather pointless when you know you're going to get spammed with CC from every direction. Yeah, maybe there are better times to use your meager CC defense, but overall the thinking is that you can't realistically defend against it anymore.

    For example, I dropped twist of fate immediately on my weaver build. The 75s cd is simply too long to be useful in this meta. Yeah, it can save your life. But just like those worthless passive traits with a 300s cd, you aren't able to use it anywhere near often enough to make it worth taking. I thought it was just me, but then I hear guys like Grimjack saying basically the same thing? Yeah, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I feel like that guy probably does!

    The previous meta seems more like the "skilled" way of handling CC to me. Since damage was so high and CC skills dealt damage, there was an urgent need to avoid certain attacks! Now I feel like if the opponent misses their first CC, they'll just queue up another to follow it. They know I am no longer loaded with stability and passives to defend against it and I can't dodge everything.

    I guess what I'm saying is that CC overall feels more impactful because there is more of it and less defense, but individually CC is less critical and also less critical to defend against. If that makes sense?

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    5v5 is a good time now. Necromancer simulator 2020 2v2 got boring real quick.

  • Kunzaito.8169Kunzaito.8169 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2020

    As the season has worn on, and people figured out the meta, and attrition has hit the pop still playing, 2v2 has gotten MUCH less fun. It's been mentioned a ton but the major frustrations for me are constant CC and instares skills.

    FB is the worst offender for CC, but any guardian can do it, plus mesmer and some troll trap ranger builds. It's really not fun to just get bounced around like a pinball and be unable to cast any freaking skills or move for half the game.

    The instant res stuff is just utterly, completely broken for a deathmatch mode. They're absolute must-takes for any class that has them, and if you get 2 classes with them on one side you might as well give up thinking you'll get a kill.

    Match I had today against FB + tempest exemplified the problem. Both have tons of access to CC: was pretty much constantly being pushed, pulled, knocked down, etc. Then, with them running Signet of Renewal and Glyph of Renewal, that gives them each an instant res every 90s even if you do manage to down one. Both classes have access to mechanics (invuln/block/aegis) to ensure they get the skill off. Ele can even cast Glyph in Fire attunement for a self-res, plus Rebound for another save for either player. FB could also take Merciful Intervention instead for a teleport and res every 40s. All they had to do was just lock us down and either eventually kill one, or wait for the poison.

    This kind of sloggy match where you can barely control your character is not fun. Earning a down against a tough comp only to see them ressed to full health 2s later is super frustrating.

    I'm guessing some of this will even out in 5v5, but 2v2 needs some balancing to correct these issues because you're not alone in these feelings.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pvp is garbage now.

    You just don't hear about it because the ranked is a 2v2 tournament. Just wait till the new season starts.

    Every team will be stacked with necros, condi revs, and weavers.

  • @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    And I still love it.

    Well, thats good? What do you enjoy about it?

    Context:

    I have almost entirely played 5v5 unranked since the 25th February 2020. Right now I play a Berserker amulet core Engineer. I play an hour or two a day. I was a GW and GW2 fan boy since the first beta events of both games. But since the release of HoT and up until the February 2020 reset patch I did not PvP that much because I strongly disliked the game play.

    Why:

    Here is, from the top of my head and in no particular order, why I like the game much, much better now:

    Thanks to the overall lower damage, I can finally play my favourite profession and build again without being a free kill. The reduction is so great I in fact can myself run a very squishy DPS amulet.

    The gap between the FOTM builds and other builds is smaller than before. This is an incredibly refreshing change.

    CC dealing no damage is great. Now bursts require a modicum of setting up. CC needs to be followed up by damage if you want to make something out of it. Pressing one button isn't enough anymore.

    Abilities that had damage, CC and avoidance of incoming damage all rolled in one are gone. That alone is one of the healthiest changes I can think of.

    AAs that took out big chunks of players' health pools are gone. Autoattacking shouldn't be a way to seriously pressure an opponent.

    There isn't one be-all and end-all combo anymore. Before the 25th the same rotation applied to almost any situation. That's in my book extremely boring game play. There is a very interesting and rather old video of 2 great Revenant players highlighting this point. I'll link it if I manage to find it.

    The longer CDs are great. Using an ability at the wrong time is more punishing. Patience is key.

    The game play feels far more reactive. Since you're not forced to chain abilities together anymore only to survive (and often at the same time deal big damage and CC) you can now adjust to what your opponent is doing. Outsmarting another player and then being one shotted by an unavoidable combo (that also made your opponent invulnerable in one way or another) was extremely frustrating. I'm so happy that is all gone.

    You actually have to work for your kills. Wait out the opponent's CDs, use your CC at an opportune time, follow up with damage, etc. Firing a hugely damaging and low CD ability through layers of defence in hopes it connects isn't good enough anymore.

    Actual team play is required. There are no more portable nukes that pop other players in a second or two. The difference between players working together and players doing their thing only is bigger than ever.

    Corpse play matters. The downed state used to be central to GW PvP before the expansions destroyed that mini game. Stomping, launching downed players, interrupting a player resurrecting his ally, applying poison, AoE CC and cleave on a downed opponent, etc. Those small plays all have use again and add another layer to the game.

    All good?

    No. Stuff needs more nerfing. Just to name the one ability I'm abusing ATM: Explosive Entrance. That ability and the associated traits feel like they were designed before the 25th paradigm change. They all need to be lowered in efficiency.

    Ending words

    Anyone who wants to dismiss my opinion because I'm a scrub I'm saving you some time: yes, like I said, I have only PvPed sporadically since HoT because I believed and I still believe that the game play had changed for the worse with both expansions.

    Peace out and have fun. Or don't.

    Thanks for the feedback! It's the whole point of having a good forum discussion. I was hoping to get some other people's opinions on here who are enjoying things. The reason we might have such radically different views too is due to the different environments we play in. I'm not a "top" player but a bit above average with several thousand hours in PvP so the stuff I run into and notice is probably different from what you run into and notice. Its good to have the different perspectives though.

    In all honesty: thank you for being a nice guy. 😊

  • Worst version.Good players can't make the difference with bad players.Infinite nerf will only make the game boring. Now Wow is the best proof

  • It makes total sense how all the superior players dissing the scrubs can't run Berserker amulet, setup a meaningful burst via CC, bait dodges and CDs, adjust their build or coordinate their damage and/or CC with other players.

    [Please note that this post may contain sarcasm.]

  • The 2vs2 killed the PvP. In capturing maps some classes took profit of quickness or teleports to cap points, some dps hide and instakill,now these roles are over.
    Always wins who are tanky and conditions.
    Thief in pvp is dead, power mesmer too, crit reaper dead.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭

    Guys you should relax, this is a mini season to give them more time to fix somethings and the other mini seasons will only go 3 weeks instead of 4 (which makes them as good side event and break time)

    in general CC has gotten way worse, my GS4 on soulbeast hit up to 11k per hit, and when i stunned one against the wall i could do 20k cc dmg in 1 second

    @Axelteas.7192 said:
    The 2vs2 killed the PvP. In capturing maps some classes took profit of quickness or teleports to cap points, some dps hide and instakill,now these roles are over.
    Always wins who are tanky and conditions.
    Thief in pvp is dead, power mesmer too, crit reaper dead.

    5vs5 comes tomorrow back

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    It makes total sense how all the superior players dissing the scrubs can't run Berserker amulet, setup a meaningful burst via CC, bait dodges and CDs, adjust their build or coordinate their damage and/or CC with other players.

    [Please note that this post may contain sarcasm.]

    I'm not at all an elite player (middling plat 1, last I did ranked), but I do precisely that and it doesn't work in the new meta. Full zerk, hell I even ran scholar for a bit on pewpew soulbeast. Against a tanky class with even a minimal sense of how to manage projectiles and my ONE ranged cc, have fun trying to even land a full burst. And when you do, watch them just walk away from it in the new low damage meta that somehow managed not to shave down sustain to match. I guess that was the point - slow down the kills to give people more reaction time. But as the balance stands now, it's just too hard to punish mistakes made by the bunkery classes. This, according to the people that played at the time, seems to be exactly what killed what little interest there was in esports. Slow, bunker, conquest matches.