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Elite Spec Ritualist for both Necromancer and Revenant

Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

This isn't an argument thread, and i'm not going to argue here with you guys about it. I'm more interested in the speculative design of them and as such I'll be giving you a piece of my take on how each of them could function. Ritualist is a difficult class to try and fill the shoes of and in either case its an up hill battle. And the issues I see is a loss of what makes each of these classes them. Necromancer loves corpses and disease. Ritualist does not. Revenant can rupture time and space. Ritualist cannot. Both have strong defining elements that hinders their relationship.

Lore aside, Mechanics is what I'm interested in at the moment and each has complications but Revenant has more so most of this post will likely be doing everything I can in order to solve the Revenant's mechanic problems with Ritualist.

Now you may be wondering why I'm doing this? Well, if Revenant or Necromancer gets ritualist I want it to be the best it can be and as on point as possible. I love both of these professions and their flavor and identity is extremely important to me. I wont go through ever possible trait and skill because that's way too much. This is just an outline of the general themes and how each should play. And their mechanics will be accounted for. We're going to start with necromancer since that is the easier of the two and then I'll follow it up with Revenant.

Necromancer: Elite Specialization Ritualist

Ashes of our Ancestors
The new shroud, and yes it is a shroud. Conjure the ashes of the dead and change your skills in this new shroud. This Shroud will be different to the normal shroud as the necromancer would not gain extra life from it but rather just the skills as it slowly degens over time. The shroud will have several skills which function as support and their auto will be a Mid ranged Cone attack similar to the Firebrand's Tome auto.
Shroud skill:

  • Essence Strike: Strike foes in a cone in front of you. This skill is modified through traits and can be modified by a new trait renewing blast which causes it to heal allies.
  • Ghastly Walk: A short ranged teleport that would grant protection to allies or some other boon while damaging foes.
  • Lamentation: a aoe ground targeted fear that partially revives allies for about 10% and is a minor heal.
  • Feast of Souls: Allies within range during the channel steal life with their attacks. Damage foes as you channel.
  • Spirit link Aura: Bind yourself to your allies. They take no damage for the next few seconds but each time they're struck you lose life force. During the duration you take damage to your life force.

Thats the general idea of the shroud I was thinking about. Something highly supportive that offers resurrection and life stealing as this is what the necromancer and Ritualist used to do in GW1. So I thought I'd give them this here as well. Its a fun little mechanic.

Weapon: Trident
The Trident seems like the right choice here, since doubling up on the torch sounds kinda boring and its a new expansions o anything is possible. So land trident. The trident would be a heavy support weapon with minor control and a fear. Because fear is very much in the Flavor of Ritualist, so why not more?

Skill Type: Spirits
You can't have a ritualist elite spec without spirits and that's not Controversial at all. The spirits that the necromancer would get would be a Mix of Offense and Supportive spirits.
Supportive Spirits:

  • Preservation: The heal skill which would passively heal the ally with the least amount of health every few seconds. It can be Sacrificed to cause a burst of healing to allies in its AOE.
  • Shelter: Passive damage reduction to allies at the cost of its own health. It can be sacrificed to create an aoe field that breaks stun of allies or a protective dome. Whichever sounds better.
  • Purging: Will pull conditions from allies onto itself and pulse them out to foes. It can be sacrificed to pull more conditions from allies and transfer them to foes.

Offensive Spirits:

  • Pain: Basic power damage spirit that throws ranged attacks at foes. It can be sacrificed to cause heavy damage.
  • Wanderlust: Auto attacks inflict torment on foes. It can be sacrificed to cause fear to foes around it.
  • Elite: Call to the Spirit Realm: Summon the spirits of Spirit of Anger, Spirit of Hate, and Spirit of Suffering. This spell turns over and allows you to summon all of current active spirits to target location.

The goal of the spirits I want to do is get the feel for as many possible builds as possible. Ritualist is a diverse profession and just having offensive spirits would be a major mistake in its design. one of my all time favorite builds is the Soul Twisting build from GW1 which used protective spirits like Shelter, Union and Distortion along with Soul twisting to keep them up as long as possible making my allies extremely tanky. Although nothing that powerful should exist in GW2 because it would trivialize a lot of content it would be nice to see. The necromancer Ritualist is an extremely supportive design which is intentional as the Ritualist is a support class.

Revenant: Elite Specialization Ritualist

Now we get to the hard part. There is a LOT that needs to happen with this one since its not such an easy fit. BUT I can make it work because I'm awesome. Praise me. PRAISE ME! Jk jk! So, lets get started with their new elite spec mechanic.

Ashes of the legend
So the skill two of the Revenant Ritualist will actually be the Urn of your inactive legend. And to gain this you loose access to your weapon swap as these ashes will replace your weapon skills with the powers of your inactive legend. While you're using the Urn you can't swap legends and it does count as a legend swap when you conjure the ashes. This lets you stay in your primary Legend for Longer so that the Revenant can maintain a better control over their primary means of fighting. Each of them will help enhance the playstle you're looking for while still holding that urn ritualist flavor.

  • Cruel was Mallyx: These 5 skills would embody the aggressive nature of Mallyx and force you to attack with claws and almost ape like fashion. Heavy slams and swift attacks make up its kit.
  • Treacherous was Shiro: Conjure twin swords taking on the combative prowess of Shiro becoming swift and evasive against impossible odds.
  • Wise was Jalis: Conjure a Melee hammer to devastate foes and provide yourself with defensive abilities.
  • Peaceful was Ventari: Gain the ability to heal allies through your actions.

I'm not going to go through what each skill would do, just know these would be needed to be maintained so they would drain your energy and would go away after a while regardless. Hopefully they could be worth while to use, but this gives you some fun options. I want the Ritualist to do as much as possible and this seems a good way to put some Ritualist flavor into the Revenant. If you guys want to design there skills please do! I'd love to see what you come up with!

The Legendary stance: Emperor Usoku
BLOWING YOUR MIND RIGHT NOW! We really need more Villainous legends and he seems like a superb candidate for this elite spec. His Xenophobic policies and ties with the Ministry of Purity and exile of the Tengu seems like this could be an interesting character to channel. We know very little about him as a character and I'd love to get to know how such a man thinks. This choice for me also gives me a better means of creating unique skills. since we can use the Dragon Emperor himself.

Ashes of the Legend: Tyrannical was Usoku: The last of the legends to channel, Usoku's legend would be primarily offensive and allow him to conjure forth lesser spirits and strike foes with Spectral Rifts and the Skill Dragon Emperor's Rage! How he would play i'm not sure. My thought would be he would be a very ranged summoner type who would use control and aggression to get his way.

Legendary Emperor Stance

  • Soul of Preservation: Summon a spirit of Preservation to heal allies. Can be traited to heal downed allies. I didn't want to do this for necromancer since it has some redundancy with their traits so we'll just put that here.
  • Souls of Purity: Summon spirits of members of the Ministry of Purity to strike at your foes. 2 spirits.
  • For the Empire!: Sacrifice spirits to damage foes in an area.
  • Unity of the Empire: maintain this skill to transfer some of the damage of you and your allies to your summoned spirits.
  • Elite: The Royal Lineage: Conjure forth Spirits of the royal lineage to strike at the very essence of your foes.

How each of these will is a bit sketch, but I think the idea is we go with almost a summoner type that summons spirits that can be out a bit longer that the Emperor stance can then use for either damage or Support. Its a bit of a unique take on this idea, but I really don't like the idea of muddying up their skills with 5 spirits skills which would make the spec feel really clunky. Having a few that spawn a good number quickly so you can get back to the combat seems to be the right choice for Rev.

Weapons:Scepter+Focus
Yes, that's right, TWO weapons. I honestly don't think just a scepter would really work with this spec. you need both. And I think at least one of them could summon a lesser spirit so you can fuel your skills in other ways. These would be ranged and possibly hybrid weapons. What it will do I'm not sure. But I wanted this spec to be as good for the revenant as possible. Considering this spec would lock you out of Swapping Weapons in combat, I feel its appropriate regardless...

Either way, this is my two takes on the potential they could go. And honestly, I'd be pretty hyped for either. The revenant is definitely a bit more of a departure from what we might traditionally consider the Ritualist to be, but its just taking from Different elements to Fill a more unique design. Traits, I'm not going to worry about at the moment. This was just a fun thing for me to do. Now feel free to discuss your thoughts.

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Comments

  • Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Revenant can rupture time and space. Ritualist cannot. Both have strong defining elements that hinders their relationship.

    The Spirit Rift skill existed. It's more obvious in GW2 because skill descriptions in GW2 sometimes give some fluff rather than just what they do mechanically, but ritualist clearly does have the ability to open rifts. There was also at least one GW1 quest which involved a ritualist opening a portal, although to be fair, the one I'm thinking of might have been a havroun thing rather than a ritualist thing specifically.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Revenant can rupture time and space. Ritualist cannot. Both have strong defining elements that hinders their relationship.

    The Spirit Rift skill existed. It's more obvious in GW2 because skill descriptions in GW2 sometimes give some fluff rather than just what they do mechanically, but ritualist clearly does have the ability to open rifts. There was also at least one GW1 quest which involved a ritualist opening a portal, although to be fair, the one I'm thinking of might have been a havroun thing rather than a ritualist thing specifically.

    Rifts are not breaking down spacetime. If this was the case necromancer would also be doing it as well. Ghastly breach specifically mentions that its breaching the realm of torment. So not quite. Neither Necromancer or Ritualist can breach spacetime. A spectral rift, which necromancer is very capable of doing, is not rupturing space time.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Revenant can rupture time and space. Ritualist cannot. Both have strong defining elements that hinders their relationship.

    The Spirit Rift skill existed. It's more obvious in GW2 because skill descriptions in GW2 sometimes give some fluff rather than just what they do mechanically, but ritualist clearly does have the ability to open rifts. There was also at least one GW1 quest which involved a ritualist opening a portal, although to be fair, the one I'm thinking of might have been a havroun thing rather than a ritualist thing specifically.

    Rifts are not breaking down spacetime. If this was the case necromancer would also be doing it as well. Ghastly breach specifically mentions that its breaching the realm of torment. So not quite. Neither Necromancer or Ritualist can breach spacetime. A spectral rift, which necromancer is very capable of doing, is not rupturing space time.

    ...if opening rifts isn't what you're referring to, where is the revenant "breaking down spacetime"? Citadel Bombardment? That's opening a rift to a fractal in the Mists that's replaying an event in history. Continuum Rift is the closest thing we've been shown to actual time travel, and even there we've had indications that it's actually a special type of clone rather than time travel, similar to the trick that White Mantle Mesmers use.

    Incidentally, to comment on the proposals here...

    The necromancer one, I can certainly see working out. Not the way I'd do it, but there's definitely potential there.

    The revenant one... ehhh. Personally, I think Kalla already does a good job of having spirits offering a mix of offensive and defensive capabilities, and Ventari's Tablet performs much the same role that protective and healing spirits do, so having another legend based on those principles right after Kalla feels redundant. But you probably already know that's my opinion on that particular matter. In isolation, I could see it working, in practice, I think it's too soon coming right after a legend based around summoning what are basically spirits in catsuits.

    The ashes are an interesting mechanic, although I'd possibly be inclined to make the ashes be that of your current legend rather than your inactive one (basically representing an even closer attunement to the legend than normal such that the legend takes over the entire skillbar instead of just the right-hand side). It is, however, a mechanic that I feel would be wasted if combined with a humanoid legend - with Mallyx and, for the sake of argument (although it'd never happen) Glint, I could see this having the potential for a set of replacement attack skills that really make you feel like you're embodying the legend physically rather than just assuming their power. For more humanoid legends like Shiro and Usoku, though, it'd probably just feel like an alternate weapon swap. Seems a bit of a waste to take a mechanic that could be used to really sell a nonhumanoid legend (or at least one that doesn't fight with conventional weapons) and applying it to a human spellcaster.

    Speaking of, I'm uncomfortable with losing weaponswap as a tradeoff, especially when there are already tradeoffs (losing Ancient Echo and, as much as people like to forget that this is a tradeoff, losing the choice of a third core traitline) - the reason why revenant got weaponswap in the first place was that its weapons weren't properly designed to work without a weaponswap. Mind you, the way things are going, by the time the expansion arrives core revenant might be down to so few viable weapon sets that you might not miss the weaponswap if you have a functionality that replaces it. Similar to engineer, you can probably choose your weapons to account for the weaknesses of the urns available.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Revenant can rupture time and space. Ritualist cannot. Both have strong defining elements that hinders their relationship.

    The Spirit Rift skill existed. It's more obvious in GW2 because skill descriptions in GW2 sometimes give some fluff rather than just what they do mechanically, but ritualist clearly does have the ability to open rifts. There was also at least one GW1 quest which involved a ritualist opening a portal, although to be fair, the one I'm thinking of might have been a havroun thing rather than a ritualist thing specifically.

    Rifts are not breaking down spacetime. If this was the case necromancer would also be doing it as well. Ghastly breach specifically mentions that its breaching the realm of torment. So not quite. Neither Necromancer or Ritualist can breach spacetime. A spectral rift, which necromancer is very capable of doing, is not rupturing space time.

    ...if opening rifts isn't what you're referring to, where is the revenant "breaking down spacetime"? Citadel Bombardment? That's opening a rift to a fractal in the Mists that's replaying an event in history. Continuum Rift is the closest thing we've been shown to actual time travel, and even there we've had indications that it's actually a special type of clone rather than time travel, similar to the trick that White Mantle Mesmers use.

    Incidentally, to comment on the proposals here...

    The necromancer one, I can certainly see working out. Not the way I'd do it, but there's definitely potential there.

    The revenant one... ehhh. Personally, I think Kalla already does a good job of having spirits offering a mix of offensive and defensive capabilities, and Ventari's Tablet performs much the same role that protective and healing spirits do, so having another legend based on those principles right after Kalla feels redundant. But you probably already know that's my opinion on that particular matter. In isolation, I could see it working, in practice, I think it's too soon coming right after a legend based around summoning what are basically spirits in catsuits.

    The ashes are an interesting mechanic, although I'd possibly be inclined to make the ashes be that of your current legend rather than your inactive one (basically representing an even closer attunement to the legend than normal such that the legend takes over the entire skillbar instead of just the right-hand side). It is, however, a mechanic that I feel would be wasted if combined with a humanoid legend - with Mallyx and, for the sake of argument (although it'd never happen) Glint, I could see this having the potential for a set of replacement attack skills that really make you feel like you're embodying the legend physically rather than just assuming their power. For more humanoid legends like Shiro and Usoku, though, it'd probably just feel like an alternate weapon swap. Seems a bit of a waste to take a mechanic that could be used to really sell a nonhumanoid legend (or at least one that doesn't fight with conventional weapons) and applying it to a human spellcaster.

    Speaking of, I'm uncomfortable with losing weaponswap as a tradeoff, especially when there are already tradeoffs (losing Ancient Echo and, as much as people like to forget that this is a tradeoff, losing the choice of a third core traitline) - the reason why revenant got weaponswap in the first place was that its weapons weren't properly designed to work without a weaponswap. Mind you, the way things are going, by the time the expansion arrives core revenant might be down to so few viable weapon sets that you might not miss the weaponswap if you have a functionality that replaces it. Similar to engineer, you can probably choose your weapons to account for the weaknesses of the urns available.

    This isn't a proposal. Its speculative. This is the design that I could best come up with that would fit the fervent desires of some of the revenant community. There are a lot of people who want this so, inspite of what I want for the class or what would be best for its design moving forward I created this ritualist spec to be as accurate to the feel and playstyle of the GW1 Ritualist. You mention these issues and I'm very acutely aware of them.

    The Revenant community knows that if they don't get Ritualist now they'll never get it. And I don't think they ever will. But that doesn't mean I won't build concepts. I rather enjoy doing it.

    Personally, for rev I want a greatsword with a legendary norn and animal totems they channel to embody aspects of the spirits of the wild.

    I don't even necessarily want a Ritualist for necromancer either right off the coat tail of the Scourge which is far more ritualist like than Renegade even is. In both flavor and play style.

    But that's not really the concern. I wanted to design them as a though experiment. I want Rev to embrace its martial aspects and I want Necro to embrace summoning[so minions].

    Either way, both specs have crossover with previous specs of their respective classes. Because, well, arena net kinda served both communities at once since this is hotly debated.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    I think it would be cool to have Togo.
    Togo is an extremely important Ritualist master and also for one other relationship : His relationship with Shiro.

    Oh what fun if they start bickering in my head.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Drgnfly.5812Drgnfly.5812 Member ✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Necromancer: Elite Specialization Ritualist

    You have some interesting ideas here. The greatest relation I see between Ritualists and Necromancers is the forceful desire to bend their creations to their will. "Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. " When it comes to summoning spirits and channeling the lightning energies of the Channeling Magics I agree that the Necromancer is well suited.

    A couple of thoughts though. I would be interested to see the Necromancer's shroud fueled and enhanced by the presence of spirits. Not just the Ritualist spirits, but Ranger spirits and Renegades summons too. Some changes to the shroud that you proposed could be:

    Essence Strike- Deal X lightning damage. Receive X% Life Force if near spirits.
    Spirit Walk- Teleport to nearest spirit. Instant Recharge if there is a spirit, random teleport with ~10 sec recharge if no spirit present.
    Lamentation- I like what you did here, except drop the resurrection part.
    Binding Chains- Link nearby enemies to nearby spirits. They take X damage and move X% slower while chained. Enemies move out of range immobilize X seconds.
    Rupture Souls- Destroy all nearby spirits. Enemies take X lightning damage and are blinded. Downed allies are partially revived based on number of allied spirits destroyed.

    I think there should be a strong correlation between the Necromancer's new shroud and the usage of spirits. The developers could add interesting gameplay while simultaneously creating an inherent trade-off.

    When it comes to the Revenant I feel strongly you are on the right path with the summoning of urns and ashes. Usoku is great legend choice. Other great choices could be Master Togo, Saint Viktor, Archemorus, Kuunavang, any of the heroes revered in the Tahnnakai Temple, or for a curve ball Brother Mhenlo. There are so many great choices in Cantha, so many different directions the Revenant could go. ArenaNet may not even bind them to Ritualism at all. I'm excited to see what is in store for us!

    "There is little love for those of my kind in this place, yet I am here to help save them all. To those who matter, actions speak louder than words and my actions shall echo across this city for eternity until all recognize the honor of the Tengu race." ~ Talon Silverwing

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    lol
    renegade and scourge kinda seem like ritualist already

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drgnfly.5812 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Necromancer: Elite Specialization Ritualist

    You have some interesting ideas here. The greatest relation I see between Ritualists and Necromancers is the forceful desire to bend their creations to their will. "Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. " When it comes to summoning spirits and channeling the lightning energies of the Channeling Magics I agree that the Necromancer is well suited.

    A couple of thoughts though. I would be interested to see the Necromancer's shroud fueled and enhanced by the presence of spirits. Not just the Ritualist spirits, but Ranger spirits and Renegades summons too. Some changes to the shroud that you proposed could be:

    Essence Strike- Deal X lightning damage. Receive X% Life Force if near spirits.
    Spirit Walk- Teleport to nearest spirit. Instant Recharge if there is a spirit, random teleport with ~10 sec recharge if no spirit present.
    Lamentation- I like what you did here, except drop the resurrection part.
    Binding Chains- Link nearby enemies to nearby spirits. They take X damage and move X% slower while chained. Enemies move out of range immobilize X seconds.
    Rupture Souls- Destroy all nearby spirits. Enemies take X lightning damage and are blinded. Downed allies are partially revived based on number of allied spirits destroyed.

    I think there should be a strong correlation between the Necromancer's new shroud and the usage of spirits. The developers could add interesting gameplay while simultaneously creating an inherent trade-off.

    When it comes to the Revenant I feel strongly you are on the right path with the summoning of urns and ashes. Usoku is great legend choice. Other great choices could be Master Togo, Saint Viktor, Archemorus, Kuunavang, any of the heroes revered in the Tahnnakai Temple, or for a curve ball Brother Mhenlo. There are so many great choices in Cantha, so many different directions the Revenant could go. ArenaNet may not even bind them to Ritualism at all. I'm excited to see what is in store for us!

    I think its important that Necro/Rit isn't bound by the spirits so they can function without them. We don't want to hyper Homogenize the builds so those suggestions you have would work better in trait slots.

    As for Rev/Rit, I wanted a legendary that would really push the Ideas being told in the story. Kuunavang was more an elementalist though. Would be a cool Channel for sure, but I don't think Kuunavang is in the mists. I think he's still kicking around in Cantha. Kuunavang might be a Pillar of the story tbh.

    And thank you, the Urns idea I had for rev was one of my favorites. Its kinda a departure from what you'd normal expect from Rev. But then again, So was Scourge from Necro. So Its probably fine.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

  • Elric.4713Elric.4713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    If you can't get over the fact that you're playing the spiritual successor to Ritualists, well then there's eight other professions you can play.

    👻Legendary Ritualist Stance - Invoke the power of the legendary ritualist Master Togo.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    If you can't get over the fact that you're playing the spiritual successor to Ritualists, well then there's eight other professions you can play.

    Its also the succesor to dervish as well, I dont mind that it has a lot of homage to both. But the Ritualist has SOOO much more to it than what they could give on Rev, it would be a shell of itself. So if you want a less than stellar watered down version of rit by all means; It does deserve to be its own class but its ties to necromancer and necromancers less cumbersome mechanics make it Ideal. Now if they could get rev to work; And find a way to work in ALL of what rit was into the revenant Id be down but as it stands now they are two totally different animals. And the mechanics of one doesn't work well with the mechanics of another, I dont want a ritualist that is dumbed down to fit into Rev's kit. ( I mained both dervish and Ritualist, So this is near and dear to my heart. I now and a Rev main.)

    I just don't believe they can do it right using Rev's kit and I don't feel if they do that it should be an E-spec, if ritualist comes into play here then I want it to be core and come with a rework of Invocation. Id like them to just roll it into the class and fill in the gaps using the ritualist and its theme, that in my ideal world would be the case and Id love to see them roll more of the dervish as well. Make the revenant the perfect baby of the two but this requires a lot of work and Im not sure that they would do it, and not cut corners due to the sheer work load.

    I know as someone who loves all three classes, Merging them together would be perfect to help the class find itself and gain its interesting nuance back. Neither dervish or Ritualist should be E-specs... they should either be more flushed out in a core class, or become classes themselves.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    If you can't get over the fact that you're playing the spiritual successor to Ritualists, well then there's eight other professions you can play.

    Too bad Revenant plays nothing like a ritualist, has a different temperament, different armor class, different lore, different magic, and a lack of skills in general.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elric.4713 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    If you can't get over the fact that you're playing the spiritual successor to Ritualists, well then there's eight other professions you can play.

    If we're talking about spiritual successors, that's actually Engineer.

    ArenaNet was actually pretty upfront around the time Factions launched that when they made the Ritualist what they were really looking to do was make an engineer-like profession (such as seen in Team Fortress), but because Tyria at the time didn't have the technology to support that, ArenaNet found a fantasy way of achieving the same playstyle. The advanced timeline and technology of GW2 allowed them to go back to the original concept. Turrets are the spiritual successor to spirits (Supply Drop can even be considered a GW2 version of the PvE Signet of Spirits) and weapon kits are essentially the GW2 urns. Weapon spells aren't there, but they were pretty much just a special form of buff anyway.

    Now, how Engineer actually plays in practice is quite different, but that's the result of balance tweaks made post-launch, particularly turret engineers being OP point holders in sPvP at a time when ArenaNet was still largely refusing to split balance between modes.

    Revenant, by contrast... well, there were a lot of threads going around pre-HoT along the lines of "well, we know we can't have Dervish because that's tied to the gods*, and we can't have Ritualist because Engineer already fulfills that playstyle, but could we get the playstyle of the Dervish and the lore of the Ritualist by having a 'spirit warrior' style profession that gains power through summoning spirits into their own bodies?" And that's pretty much the general idea behind the Revenant, although ArenaNet put some of their own twists on it.

    Kalla is already a nod to the link to Ritualists. Ventari/Kalla is probably the closest thing you can play at the moment to a support Ritualist. But we don't need two elite specialisations in a row trying to make the Revenant into a Ritualist. Let it forge its own path.

    *Personally, I think the only thing that was explicitly linked to the gods were the avatar skills, but that was the conclusion people had.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    U guys all make extremely well thought put points in this thread and I 100% agree warrior should get a samurai with spear spec. Glad this is being so discussed.

    I'm out lol stay safe.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    +1

    Ritualist and Necromancer share the same chemistry while Revenant never existed in Guild Wars. I agree with you as well to have Ritualist as its own Profession. Necromancer/Ritualist are the perfect match to each other and should remain so.

    side note-
    here is a very old video of a Necromancer/Ritualist in harmony

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    I do understanad why: you fail to move on and think that gw2 shouldn't be anothing more/else than gw1. Which is wrong.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    history never lie :)

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    Also it's worth noting that the "superior predecessor" claim is nothing more than your opinion, hopefully it doesn't need to be said, but you presented it as undeniable fact, so... just making sure you understand that.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life. (Fallen order was a diamond but one they likely won't hit again. Mass effect is dead and Inquisition killed DA.) But I mean really I guess I didn't elaborate, I don't care much about the lore anymore considering most of what I knew and cared about was litterally just ran through the dirt in this current title. Its the game modes, customization and the lack of innovation that seems to really bother me and its sad.

    Guilds could of been so much more, made into something awesome which while being a huge part of the game doesn't effect players who don't desire that form of play. (You just wouldn't be able to enter guild battles or alliance battles, perhaps they could add a mercenary system where you were to offer your services to a guild and be a rouge like entity who is on their side and will get similar rewards?) Guilds should be flushed out, added upon and made special... not abandoned and left to rot and alliance battles and guild battles 100% should of been a thing as an official game-mode.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life. (Fallen order was a diamond but one they likely won't hit again. Mass effect is dead and Inquisition killed DA.) But I mean really I guess I didn't elaborate, I don't care much about the lore anymore considering most of what I knew and cared about was litterally just ran through the dirt in this current title. Its the game modes, customization and the lack of innovation that seems to really bother me and its sad.

    Guilds could of been so much more, made into something awesome which while being a huge part of the game doesn't effect players who don't desire that form of play. (You just wouldn't be able to enter guild battles or alliance battles, perhaps they could add a mercenary system where you were to offer your services to a guild and be a rouge like entity who is on their side and will get similar rewards?) Guilds should be flushed out, added upon and made special... not abandoned and left to rot and alliance battles and guild battles 100% should of been a thing as an official game-mode.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    uhm... you clearly failed to understand what I've wrote. Surprisingly enough you understood that it's more-or-less about "having limited taste", which was the point.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    You... uh... you failed to understand what I've wrote.

    do you think that your attitude need adjustment?

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    You... uh... you failed to understand what I've wrote.

    do you think that your attitude need adjustment?

    I don't see the relevance between what you just wrote and what you've quoted. But no -instead I think you need to move on and understand that gw2 is it's own game or you should move back to gw1 for some of those extra sentimental feelings you're seemingly looking for. Seems pretty obvious to me.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    You... uh... you failed to understand what I've wrote.

    do you think that your attitude need adjustment?

    I don't see the relevance between what you just wrote and what you've quoted. But no -instead I think you need to move on and understand that gw2 is it's own game or you should move back to gw1 for some of those extra sentimental feelings you're seemingly looking for. Seems pretty obvious to me.

    because whenever i mention anything having to do with Guild Wars. it irritates you and offends you

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    You... uh... you failed to understand what I've wrote.

    do you think that your attitude need adjustment?

    I don't see the relevance between what you just wrote and what you've quoted. But no -instead I think you need to move on and understand that gw2 is it's own game or you should move back to gw1 for some of those extra sentimental feelings you're seemingly looking for. Seems pretty obvious to me.

    because whenever i mention anything having to do with Guild Wars. it irritates you and offends you

    It doesn't irate and offend (I don't even understand where that conclusion came from?) me in any way. I'm stating that it's not an argument and these are different games, because that's a fact. Apparently you think it's somehow personal :D
    You seem to suggest that things in gw2 need to be in a certain way, "because gw1 did it like this!", but that's just false. That's all. Gw2 isn't and shouldn't be gw1, it's not just the next expansion for the first game, it's a new game -whether it takes from the previous lore or not. What's so hard to understand about it?

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.

    You keep using this ("in gw1 it was like x!") as if it's any kind of argument. But it exists in gw2 and that's what we play, so it really isn't an argument at all. :(

    instead of tracking me down whenever i mention Guild Wars in my posts, try to understand why. Even the Op agrees and others agree with Ritualist being the best fit for Necromancer specialization, all i am doing is agreeing with them

    and yes.....once again, I am mentioning Guild Wars 1 because this forum mentions a Profession in it

    How am I tracking you down? I just answered in another thread in this subforum, lmao. Big ego I see :+1:

    The be fair, guild wars 2 exists solely because guild wars 1 did. Everything we've done has been tied to the original game, all of the left over plot threads we've explored were left over from the original game. Guild wars 2 would never of exists without guild wars, and perhaps instead of it trying to be its own thing it should be a legitament attempt at a sequel with more MMO-based features? As of now its been anything but the true successor to its superior predecessor. (When it comes to class Idenitity, theme, lore and story.)

    Guild wars 2 tried too hard to be everything but a guild wars game, it never to me felt like guild wars and feels like a game set in a world within the one guild wars set up but it is not the same thing. It to me is much like Age of Sigmar Vs Original Warhammer fantasy, Original fantasy is VASTLY superior but the move was made for the sake of innovation and new flashy things. But original fantasy is more successful, was more successful and age of sigmar kind of pushed out their core audience who supported them fervently for a more fly by night audience who just jumps at whatever is new.

    Guild wars 2 did much the same, it sacrificed its audience and those who loved guild wars 1 for people who probably don't and never will care about lore or story-telling. There are a few vet's left from GW1 but to me it always seems like there are so few of them, mainly because guild wars 2 has NONE of the features we consider integral to the franchise. (Guild battles, alliance battles, guilds meaning something, Guild systems, Actual guild halls not just trophy racks...)

    I mean if all you want is "more lore" and barely visible changes over the previous titles released yearly, then just stick to EA games. Being unable to move on must be pretty sad, but expecting gw2 to just exapnd on the lore while keeping everything else the same doesn't seem like a resonable request.

    An Ea game? Lmfao, clearly you have either limited taste or can't see EA can't make good games to save their life.

    You... uh... you failed to understand what I've wrote.

    do you think that your attitude need adjustment?

    I don't see the relevance between what you just wrote and what you've quoted. But no -instead I think you need to move on and understand that gw2 is it's own game or you should move back to gw1 for some of those extra sentimental feelings you're seemingly looking for. Seems pretty obvious to me.

    because whenever i mention anything having to do with Guild Wars. it irritates you and offends you

    It doesn't irate and offend (I don't even understand where that conclusion came from?) me in any way. I'm stating that it's not an argument and these are different games, because that's a fact. Apparently you think it's somehow personal :D
    You seem to suggest that things in gw2 need to be in a certain way, "because gw1 did it like this!", but that's just false. That's all. Gw2 isn't and shouldn't be gw1, it's not just the next expansion for the first game, it's a new game -whether it takes from the previous lore or not. What's so hard to understand about it?

    nothing personal as well. i understand your perspective and respect your beliefs when it comes to Guild Wars

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

    Yeah, except for when you actually read what was said in the message I've quoted: "Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.". If that's a valid argumentation for you then the thread is over. But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle.

    But sure, since you share his views (while pretending you "won't express an opinion" for some reason?), then the thread is done. Revenant can't get it, "because there was no revenant in gw1".
    (nope, still not a valid argumentation, to be completely clear)


    Anyways, I don't think a "ritualist" should be added, as it seems like it's already kind of 'splattered' between the classes, I'd rather see something new.
    Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Conqueror#achievement2399 ...so much for revenant being unrelated, "because it didn't exist".

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

    Yeah, except for when you actually read what was said in the message I've quoted: "Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.". If that's a valid argumentation for you then the thread is over. But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle.

    But sure, since you share his views (while pretending you "won't express an opinion" for some reason?), then the thread is done. Revenant can't get it, "because there was no revenant in gw1".
    (nope, still not a valid argumentation, to be completely clear)


    Anyways, I don't think a "ritualist" should be added, as it seems like it's already kind of 'splattered' between the classes, I'd rather see something new.
    Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Conqueror#achievement2399 ...so much for revenant being unrelated, "because it didn't exist".

    And there's an actual Necromancer in game who is called a ritualist. It's an extremely weak argument. Titles are for the players they don't reflect lore.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    +1

    Ritualist and Necromancer share the same chemistry while Revenant never existed in Guild Wars. I agree with you as well to have Ritualist as its own Profession. Necromancer/Ritualist are the perfect match to each other and should remain so.

    side note-
    here is a very old video of a Necromancer/Ritualist in harmony

    I should do a playthrough of GW1 again. I reinstated it and it's still fun. The ritualist is still one of my favs.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

    Yeah, except for when you actually read what was said in the message I've quoted: "Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.". If that's a valid argumentation for you then the thread is over. But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle.

    But sure, since you share his views (while pretending you "won't express an opinion" for some reason?), then the thread is done. Revenant can't get it, "because there was no revenant in gw1".
    (nope, still not a valid argumentation, to be completely clear)


    Anyways, I don't think a "ritualist" should be added, as it seems like it's already kind of 'splattered' between the classes, I'd rather see something new.
    Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Conqueror#achievement2399 ...so much for revenant being unrelated, "because it didn't exist".

    And there's an actual Necromancer in game who is called a ritualist. It's an extremely weak argument. Titles are for the players they don't reflect lore.

    It's not a weak argument, it's a proof that the statement "it can't be rev, because it didn't exist in gw1 " is false (literally according to creators of the game, so not sure how suddenly "it doesn't matter because it's a title").

    I also said I think ritualist is already 'splattered' amongst multiple classes in gw2, so with all respect (because the opening post is cool and took effort, gj) your "but the ritualist npc!" changes nothing about what I said. If anything, it seems to me that it's pretty much part of what I said.

    Aaaaaaaalso also, that "actual necromancer" (which means a "ritualist npc" using necro-named skills, right?) generates stolen skills of engineer and warrior. Somehow not necromancer's. If anything, I'd still consider it a proof of what I said about ritualist being currently 'splattered here and there'. Which is perfectly fine for me.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

    Yeah, except for when you actually read what was said in the message I've quoted: "Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.". If that's a valid argumentation for you then the thread is over. But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle.

    But sure, since you share his views (while pretending you "won't express an opinion" for some reason?), then the thread is done. Revenant can't get it, "because there was no revenant in gw1".
    (nope, still not a valid argumentation, to be completely clear)


    Anyways, I don't think a "ritualist" should be added, as it seems like it's already kind of 'splattered' between the classes, I'd rather see something new.
    Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Conqueror#achievement2399 ...so much for revenant being unrelated, "because it didn't exist".

    My actual thoughts are that they both have their strengths and weaknesses, with neither being objectively better than the other except in matters of graphics and technology (where GW2 generally has the advantage simply through being later)... but I didn't think going into such a discussion was either relevant or productive. Way to reinforce my suspicion by immediately jumping to the most aggressive conclusion.

    The observation you're objecting to is accurate. Revenants and ritualists are not the same thing (any more than guardians and monks {edit: or paragons} are the same thing), the revenant profession did not exist in GW1. While there are certainly thematic similarities, they should not be a straitjacket to limit revenant to being ritualist-like (we just HAD a ritualist-like elite specialisation for revenant in renegade), nor should they restrict other professions from having ritualist-like elements.

    In the wider context, one of the arguments put forward for why necromancers "can't" have a ritualist-like elite specialisation is the idea that ritualists hate necromancers, based on some lines from Professor Gai (a ritualist) in Factions. This can be rebutted by demonstrating that N/Rt was definitely a thing that you could do in GW1.

    Ultimately, I'm inclined to think that nobody's ever going to get an elite specialisation called "ritualist", but instead that elite specialisations with ritualist themes are possible. Just like there's no elite specialisation called "dervish", but I could point at a few that certainly have dervish-like themes.

    And necromancer is probably at the top of the list as a profession for which introducing ritualist themes would be highly appropriate.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Absolutely down for Scepter + Focus Revenant, even if it ends up not being Ritualist related (Khilbron for instance would be a great choice). I also think if both Necromancer and Rev were to get "Ritualist" Specs, that Necromancer could get the "more ritualist" spec while Rev could get more channeling magic aspects of it, with a matching legend. This way they wouldn't have to go all in necessarily on Ritualist for Revenant (especially since Kalla is already a "spirit summoning" spec). I think your version of it though is quite interesting! And Usoku would be a more interesting choice than Togo or other big ritualist names. Only other one I would consider would be Razah

    People seem to think I hate revenant. I don't. I actually love the class. It fluctuates between my top 4 all the time. So if I was to design a ritualist spec I would want it to be as good and diverse as my 3rd favorite profession in GW1.

    Revenant doesn't have a lot to do at range unfortunately. And even with my design they still lack a real ranged option to pair with Usoku. They're an extremely martial profession, more so than most. Which puts me in a bind when trying to design a ranged spec for them.

    Even just playing as a renegade and trying to juggle Kalla with another legend I find myself in this awkward spot as there isn't another ranged option aside from Mallyx's corrupt enchantment spell. This is a hurdle for their design when trying to design ranged specs.

    Revenant honestly needs more core skills to round out its kit. One more legend would do the trick maybe 1 extra skill for each legend and a set of signets. But that's beyond the point.

    I do agree the best possible spec for revenant would use greatsword and be more melee focused because that's where revenant shines.

    But more on topic I'm actually proud of my unique mechanic concept. Filling the flavor of urns while keeping it uniquely revenant.

    They could do razah in invocation due to him being anything he desires to be, so he could fill any role we need him to fill. And give us scepter + focus as a core weapon set which do just as trident does underwater swap to fit our legends at the time. This would give us a "Ritualist" spec and legend of sorts, and would keep us from becoming a ritualist which could then in turn leave it for the necromancer. So that way both have something to do with them, just Razah is like a primordial extra-dimensional being who formed in the mists much like the six gods. So he is more about the mists, and doesn't really use the skills and theme of the ritualist as much as being a homage to the class in a different way.

    Then the real ritualist spec could go to the necromancer, and both can be happy and both win. Revenants channel an otherwise god level mist being who is still alive somewhere, and is unique in of himself as well giving us another legend and core weaponset. And necromancers get an E-spec which is all about the ritualist playstyle, which would probably make me play my necro more. (Don't like how they are handled in guild wars 2 right now.)

    This also opens us up to getting a norn legend, for the E-spec for Rev and getting either duel daggers (I hope so) or greatsword(Everyone wants it, for some reason.) I feel like this core addition to rev will have to come out in the saga and I HOPE they will do it. Leave invocation as it is and make Razah a legend about siphoning health and imbuing ones self with the mists to be defensive. This would make him good with any legend and if his utilies swapped based on your stat-set to fit the role better that could be cool, I feel like we could even have some throw backs to abbadon here and maybe some margonites. Who knows~

    Razah is an extremely minor note character. He was never that important, just a gimmick of GW1. I liked Razah, but he wasn't that important.

    Doesn't matter if he is important, he fits the bill. He is a mist being so compared to togo he is VASTLY more powerful just off the bat; That and I mean you could shove togo here and make it so he is our invocation legend. I just DO NOT want Rit on rev; I don't care how they justify it and I don't care how they try to sell it, do not shove that class into this one when this one already has its own issues. I trust it going to necromancer far more, because at least then I have confidence it could be done correctly and heck they could add in a ritualist head-piece for the light armor classes. Or even ritualist armor ..... there ya go.... But do not take my rev and shove togo in it as an elite spec... I don't think we can handle another kalla.

    I don't want Rit on Revenant either. I'd prefer it to get its own profession entirely. But that's a different topic.

    +1

    Ritualist and Necromancer share the same chemistry while Revenant never existed in Guild Wars. I agree with you as well to have Ritualist as its own Profession. Necromancer/Ritualist are the perfect match to each other and should remain so.

    side note-
    here is a very old video of a Necromancer/Ritualist in harmony

    I should do a playthrough of GW1 again. I reinstated it and it's still fun. The ritualist is still one of my favs.

    Guild Wars 1 is indeed fun and i am happy that you are enjoying it. I miss the Ritualist....it is also mine as well and i believe it is the best unique profession design profession in gaming

    i even have the collection
    sample-

    -here is an interesting thread i would like to share with you-

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18941/will-ritualists-ever-become-a-playable-profession

  • say what ya'll want. I respect Lily for the inclusion of us rev/rit fanatics, but I also get the ghostly aspects of the ritualist that coincide with the necromancer. And in terms of spellcasting of gw1, necro is a better fit. But my argument is more based on lore and how revenant and ritualist both wear blindfolds to commune with the mists. They use completely different abilities, but they are accessing the same energy/mist/whatever to use their skills. So, on one side you have the fact that necromancers are more closely related to ritualists in terms of what the GW1 skills and playstyles are, but the other hand you have revenants who tap into the same energy that ritualist do but for different purposes, which is why the revenant isn't a full on spellcaster. Revenant, in gw1 terms, is basically a war/rit dual spec.

    With that said, I'd love to see necro's get a specter spec thats more ghostly and spiritual, but I'd also love to see a revenant get something revolving around channeling that focuses on ritualist magic enhancing physical combat or even just an aggressive style, maybe including things like spirits strength, spirit rift, ancestors rage, sight beyond sight, spirit channeling, splinters weapon, or any of that stuff.

    I'm biased though. I never was into necromancers and always viewed them seperately. I didn't make a necromancer in gw2 because I was holding out for ritualist. Then they released revenant who used blindfolds when fighting and talked to spirits (more so rytlock when hes traveling the mists) and I took that as a "ok, this is our new version and spiritual successor of the ritualist and the blindfold is to make that perfectly clear". So, of course saltiness would insue if like they pull, what I believe to be, a switcharoo on us revvy bois.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    ...wow. That escalated quickly. Suspiciously so.

    I'm not going to express an opinion either way on which is "better", but at the bottom line, this discussion is centered on a Guild Wars 1 profession (the ritualist) and how that might be translated into GW2. References to how things worked in GW1 are, therefore, entirely relevant. Obviously, GW2 has its own mechanics and translations aren't going to be direct, but we are talking about two time periods in the same world here.

    Yeah, except for when you actually read what was said in the message I've quoted: "Revenant never existed in Guild Wars.". If that's a valid argumentation for you then the thread is over. But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle.

    But sure, since you share his views (while pretending you "won't express an opinion" for some reason?), then the thread is done. Revenant can't get it, "because there was no revenant in gw1".
    (nope, still not a valid argumentation, to be completely clear)


    Anyways, I don't think a "ritualist" should be added, as it seems like it's already kind of 'splattered' between the classes, I'd rather see something new.
    Also... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Conqueror#achievement2399 ...so much for revenant being unrelated, "because it didn't exist".

    My actual thoughts are that they both have their strengths and weaknesses, with neither being objectively better than the other except in matters of graphics and technology (where GW2 generally has the advantage simply through being later)... but I didn't think going into such a discussion was either relevant or productive. Way to reinforce my suspicion by immediately jumping to the most aggressive conclusion.

    "Your suspicion" being what exactly? :D
    And it's not "the most aggressive conclusion", I've commented that saying it can't be relevant "because it wasn't in gw1" isn't an argument, because it's a fact. If you disagree, then there's no thread to begin with, not sure how you still don't understand that.

    The observation you're objecting to is accurate. Revenants and ritualists are not the same thing (any more than guardians and monks {edit: or paragons} are the same thing), the revenant profession did not exist in GW1. While there are certainly thematic similarities, they should not be a straitjacket to limit revenant to being ritualist-like (we just HAD a ritualist-like elite specialisation for revenant in renegade), nor should they restrict other professions from having ritualist-like elements.

    The only "accurate" thing about that observation is that there was indeed no revenant class in gw1, sure. But I wasn't saying it's a false observation, I was saying that it's not an argument in this thread. And that's because it's not. If you can't see the difference between these two statemenets, then I'm pretty sure it's not on me.
    At the same time you're saying that there are obvious similarities between rev and rit, which pretty much confirms what I said before. The fact that there was no rev in gw1 is irrelevant and is not a valid argument.
    I also never said they should "restrict other professions from having ritualist-like elements" (if I did and somehow missed that -make sure to tell me exactly where). If anything, I'm literally saying that we can see fragments of ritualist in multiple classes. Not sure what you're trying to argue here, but there's a possibility you misunderstand what I wrote.

    Ultimately, I'm inclined to think that nobody's ever going to get an elite specialisation called "ritualist", but instead that elite specialisations with ritualist themes are possible. Just like there's no elite specialisation called "dervish", but I could point at a few that certainly have dervish-like themes.

    Well, it's almost as if I wrote:
    "But the ritualist fits multiple classes now and as such what was in gw1 is still irrelevant, anet can stretch whichever semi-related class into whatever they want. What is relevant is what the class did and which classes/specs currently in gw2 have similar abilities and playstyle."

    You argue that it's totally relevant and then more-or-less repeat what I said. I'm a bit confused about your answer -from where I'm sitting it almost looks like you just wanted to tell me I'm wrong, but then repeated what I said. (I don't mean that as in you specifically "repeated after me", but that our opinions seem to be similar on this matter)

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:
    say what ya'll want. I respect Lily for the inclusion of us rev/rit fanatics, but I also get the ghostly aspects of the ritualist that coincide with the necromancer. And in terms of spellcasting of gw1, necro is a better fit. But my argument is more based on lore and how revenant and ritualist both wear blindfolds to commune with the mists. They use completely different abilities, but they are accessing the same energy/mist/whatever to use their skills. So, on one side you have the fact that necromancers are more closely related to ritualists in terms of what the GW1 skills and playstyles are, but the other hand you have revenants who tap into the same energy that ritualist do but for different purposes, which is why the revenant isn't a full on spellcaster. Revenant, in gw1 terms, is basically a war/rit dual spec.

    With that said, I'd love to see necro's get a specter spec thats more ghostly and spiritual, but I'd also love to see a revenant get something revolving around channeling that focuses on ritualist magic enhancing physical combat or even just an aggressive style, maybe including things like spirits strength, spirit rift, ancestors rage, sight beyond sight, spirit channeling, splinters weapon, or any of that stuff.

    I'm biased though. I never was into necromancers and always viewed them seperately. I didn't make a necromancer in gw2 because I was holding out for ritualist. Then they released revenant who used blindfolds when fighting and talked to spirits (more so rytlock when hes traveling the mists) and I took that as a "ok, this is our new version and spiritual successor of the ritualist and the blindfold is to make that perfectly clear". So, of course saltiness would insue if like they pull, what I believe to be, a switcharoo on us revvy bois.

    My arguments have always been based on lore and mechanics. I've never made an argument that wasn't based in lore. I have mountains of evidence in favor of Necromancer and a small stack for Revenant. I don't deny that the Revenant has some, I never have. However I do point out just how much closer necromancer's Philosophy is to the Ritualist's. So close that in GW2 they actually do fill all of the same ritualistic practices that the Ritualist used to preform in GW1.

    As for spiritual successor, I'm afraid that's Engineer. Mechanically that's where the ritualist rests. Although I'd say Scourge Fits the Ritualist's playstyle a lot better, but that's a failure of Turrets and gyros in Anet's design. Where the Engineer has some elements with the kits and healing, they are currently lacking that party support and turret build to really take advantage of that old mechanical identity. And yes, Spirit Spam was a turret build, it functions just like a turret build in other games.

    Now, what you're actually seeing is theming. Revenant has some similar themes. And even that is minor. The blindfold is only a small piece of the revenant's identity. While their Shonen characteristics are much more relevant to their identity. They're very much in the design space of the Shonen Protagonist/rival depending on the show. They're willing to tap into Dangerous legends for power and embrace it. Thematically they should be lone wolves type characters. The Ritualist is more about their piety. The temperament of the two couldn't be more divergent. Everything about their design reflects their religious and spiritual leanings. From the dance like movements they preform, the weapons they choose, the manner in way they dress. The necromancer has Adopted this piety into their design. Although they are less focused than the Ritualist they still share more of these elements.

  • Well it seems everyone thinks that their supportive arguments are objectively more important than others argument for the opposite side.

    @Lily.1935 said:

    My arguments have always been based on lore and mechanics. I've never made an argument that wasn't based in lore. I have mountains of evidence in favor of Necromancer and a small stack for Revenant. I don't deny that the Revenant has some, I never have. However I do point out just how much closer necromancer's Philosophy is to the Ritualist's. So close that in GW2 they actually do fill all of the same ritualistic practices that the Ritualist used to preform in GW1.

    As for spiritual successor, I'm afraid that's Engineer. Mechanically that's where the ritualist rests. Although I'd say Scourge Fits the Ritualist's playstyle a lot better, but that's a failure of Turrets and gyros in Anet's design. Where the Engineer has some elements with the kits and healing, they are currently lacking that party support and turret build to really take advantage of that old mechanical identity. And yes, Spirit Spam was a turret build, it functions just like a turret build in other games.

    You can't use playstyle similarities as an argument here because gw1 and gw2 have completely different playstyles. ele's play completely different in both games, but you wouldn't make the argument that gw2 elementalist isn't the same as gw1 elementalist. Because they both are channeling and attuning to the elements. Similarly, both rit and rev put on blindfolds to better commune with the spirit world and summon otherworldy energies from the mist. But even with playstyle similarities then renegade makes an attempt at being a spirit spammer. It literally summons named spirits, as well as having a spirit that dazes just like ritualist. it has both offensive and supportive spirits, just like ritualist. This is in contradiction to rangers who only have supportive spirits, and necromancers who only have offensive minions, a clear distinction that is stated in the description of ritualist from gw1. Hell, even when communing spirits like Shiro you hear shiro say "I demand that you release me!" because he is forceably bound to the revenant until the revenant releases him. Basically the same as how rit spirits are bound by chains. The only difference is most of legends are revenants channel are benevolent and are willing to help the revenant, so it seems almost as a mutual relationship.
    >

    Now, what you're actually seeing is theming. Revenant has some similar themes. And even that is minor. The blindfold is only a small piece of the revenant's identity. While their Shonen characteristics are much more relevant to their identity. They're very much in the design space of the Shonen Protagonist/rival depending on the show. They're willing to tap into Dangerous legends for power and embrace it. Thematically they should be lone wolves type characters. The Ritualist is more about their piety. The temperament of the two couldn't be more divergent. Everything about their design reflects their religious and spiritual leanings. From the dance like movements they preform, the weapons they choose, the manner in way they dress. The necromancer has Adopted this piety into their design. Although they are less focused than the Ritualist they still share more of these elements.

    The problem with this is that necromancers have not adopted this "piety" into their design. And the whole dancing, weapons, dressing, chanting, and blindfold are all ways to better channel the spirit world. They dance in between the real world and the spirit world, just like the revenant. Thematically, revenant commune with the spirit world to enhance their combat ability. It's using ritualistic magic but in a different way. You are drawing energy from the spirit realm. And you clearly don't see the significance of how relating revenant with blindfolds is a clear shout out to ritualist with anet clearly showing what they intended by it, it wasn't just some coincidence that both happen to have blindfolds, and thats the problem. You view that as such an insignificant information, while viewing everything you say as clear indications of necromancer=ritualist even though I think most of those arguments hold a lot less water than the clear relationship revenant has to ritualist. Hell, the word revenant means someone who has come back from the dead.
    "In the biography step of character creation, revenants must decide which blindfold they wear to shut out their physical world interaction.", now this is straight from character creation. using a blindfold is a big part of revenant lore, and they use it to shut out the physical world just like the ritualist.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:
    Well it seems everyone thinks that their supportive arguments are objectively more important than others argument for the opposite side.

    @Lily.1935 said:

    My arguments have always been based on lore and mechanics. I've never made an argument that wasn't based in lore. I have mountains of evidence in favor of Necromancer and a small stack for Revenant. I don't deny that the Revenant has some, I never have. However I do point out just how much closer necromancer's Philosophy is to the Ritualist's. So close that in GW2 they actually do fill all of the same ritualistic practices that the Ritualist used to preform in GW1.

    As for spiritual successor, I'm afraid that's Engineer. Mechanically that's where the ritualist rests. Although I'd say Scourge Fits the Ritualist's playstyle a lot better, but that's a failure of Turrets and gyros in Anet's design. Where the Engineer has some elements with the kits and healing, they are currently lacking that party support and turret build to really take advantage of that old mechanical identity. And yes, Spirit Spam was a turret build, it functions just like a turret build in other games.

    You can't use playstyle similarities as an argument here because gw1 and gw2 have completely different playstyles. ele's play completely different in both games, but you wouldn't make the argument that gw2 elementalist isn't the same as gw1 elementalist. Because they both are channeling and attuning to the elements. Similarly, both rit and rev put on blindfolds to better commune with the spirit world and summon otherworldy energies from the mist. But even with playstyle similarities then renegade makes an attempt at being a spirit spammer. It literally summons named spirits, as well as having a spirit that dazes just like ritualist. it has both offensive and supportive spirits, just like ritualist. This is in contradiction to rangers who only have supportive spirits, and necromancers who only have offensive minions, a clear distinction that is stated in the description of ritualist from gw1. Hell, even when communing spirits like Shiro you hear shiro say "I demand that you release me!" because he is forceably bound to the revenant until the revenant releases him. Basically the same as how rit spirits are bound by chains. The only difference is most of legends are revenants channel are benevolent and are willing to help the revenant, so it seems almost as a mutual relationship.
    >

    Now, what you're actually seeing is theming. Revenant has some similar themes. And even that is minor. The blindfold is only a small piece of the revenant's identity. While their Shonen characteristics are much more relevant to their identity. They're very much in the design space of the Shonen Protagonist/rival depending on the show. They're willing to tap into Dangerous legends for power and embrace it. Thematically they should be lone wolves type characters. The Ritualist is more about their piety. The temperament of the two couldn't be more divergent. Everything about their design reflects their religious and spiritual leanings. From the dance like movements they preform, the weapons they choose, the manner in way they dress. The necromancer has Adopted this piety into their design. Although they are less focused than the Ritualist they still share more of these elements.

    The problem with this is that necromancers have not adopted this "piety" into their design. And the whole dancing, weapons, dressing, chanting, and blindfold are all ways to better channel the spirit world. They dance in between the real world and the spirit world, just like the revenant. Thematically, revenant commune with the spirit world to enhance their combat ability. It's using ritualistic magic but in a different way. You are drawing energy from the spirit realm. And you clearly don't see the significance of how relating revenant with blindfolds is a clear shout out to ritualist with anet clearly showing what they intended by it, it wasn't just some coincidence that both happen to have blindfolds, and thats the problem. You view that as such an insignificant information, while viewing everything you say as clear indications of necromancer=ritualist even though I think most of those arguments hold a lot less water than the clear relationship revenant has to ritualist. Hell, the word revenant means someone who has come back from the dead.
    "In the biography step of character creation, revenants must decide which blindfold they wear to shut out their physical world interaction.", now this is straight from character creation. using a blindfold is a big part of revenant lore, and they use it to shut out the physical world just like the ritualist.

    I've posted literally countless pieces of evidence showing the close relationship necromancer has to Ritualist. Which you guys keep denying there is any. I've posted them over and over and over again. And you all out right deny that there is substantial evidence in favor of the necromancer and even Make up aspects of the revenant of which you claim is Ritualist like. Revenant's are not dancers. First off, lets push that out right there because they absolutely are not. They are martial fighters. The culture that spawned them, the charr took on their militant philosophy in its design. How revenant deals with Spirits and legends and the mists are extremely divergent from the Ritualist/necromancer.

    Why I say necromancer Adopted the piety, is because they absolutely did. We actually see it in the design of armor made for them, the NPC roles they preform such as Priests and undertakers. Not all Priests of grenth are necromancers, which I will not, some are elementalists/Cryomages. Necromancers have always preformed rituals. Its in the very identity of the class which I've shown as well. The Revenant has not been shown that their magic is a ritual. They just haven't. Now, this isn't the same as saying that their magic isn't a ritual. But a positive claim like that needs to be presented with evidence. As far as I'm aware, the ritualist's magic is more likely a conjure, however we don't have evidence for that either. Magic is poorly represented in the game with very little lore on how it actually functions and what are the divides between what a Ritual is and what is a conjure. So we can only speak definitively about what the game lore says it was. And much of the necromancer's magic, especially blood magic, is ritual magic.

    Revenant magic might not even have a catagory it can fall into. Ritual or Conjure or something else. As it was stated that its new magic. So we need to take in context clues as to what these are. Necromancers in the past 250 years have adopted Bones into their clothing and armor more frequently. This is a fact. Why is this relevant? Well, lets take a look at Ritualist armors from the past. They're all using bones and teeth and animal leather. Its a part of their design to suggest their connection with death. These are decorative choices which holds a different meaning when comparing it to the Ranger who uses bones and leather as trophies or for practical purposes. The revenant doesn't wear bones, they don't dance, their is no evidence that they preform rituals. There is no suggestion that they could even summon spirits independent of their legend's abilities. There is evidence showing they can warp spacetime! So we need to work with what we can see. Not what we think it could be.

  • @Lily.1935 said:

    I've posted literally countless pieces of evidence showing the close relationship necromancer has to Ritualist. Which you guys keep denying there is any. I've posted them over and over and over again. And you all out right deny that there is substantial evidence in favor of the necromancer and even Make up aspects of the revenant of which you claim is Ritualist like. Revenant's are not dancers. First off, lets push that out right there because they absolutely are not. They are martial fighters. The culture that spawned them, the charr took on their militant philosophy in its design. How revenant deals with Spirits and legends and the mists are extremely divergent from the Ritualist/necromancer.

    No one is denying that they are similar, but it's always been a distinction that ritualist and necromancers are seperate in there schools of thought. They may cross some lines into what they dabble in, but they operate differently and have opposing philosophies. The dancing thing and the whole ritualist casting animations are of course not going to be in gw2 at all because this game is fast based action combat and not a stand still and cast type of game like the first guild wars was, so obviously its not going to be represented in neither revenant nor necromancer. Also, I think it can be safe to say those dancing and whatever the ritualist do were methods for accessing the spirit before magic was introduced to them, so it was probably just something that stuck around and probably make casting magic easier. But, revenant has had no teacher or passing down of teachings. It's a new entity that seems to have tapped into the same energy and magic that ritualist have, albeit using it in a different way. Using a spirits strength build on a ritualist often lacked skills that had any sorta of ritualistic dance animations. And I would argue that that necromancers diverge further from rit/rev when it comes to dealing with spirits and legends. Necromancers could give a kitten less about drawing the powers and spells from spirits, legends, and named characters. They just want to use death magic their own way and not by channeling spirits. Ritualist probably have more in common with Norns than anything else, because they actively communicate with the nature spirits and draw upon their strength for combat. But I wouldn't consider any of that necromancer. Necromancy defiles the dead, it doesnt respect or work with the spirits.

    Why I say necromancer Adopted the piety, is because they absolutely did. We actually see it in the design of armor made for them, the NPC roles they preform such as Priests and undertakers. Not all Priests of grenth are necromancers, which I will not, some are elementalists/Cryomages. Necromancers have always preformed rituals. Its in the very identity of the class which I've shown as well. The Revenant has not been shown that their magic is a ritual. They just haven't. Now, this isn't the same as saying that their magic isn't a ritual. But a positive claim like that needs to be presented with evidence. As far as I'm aware, the ritualist's magic is more likely a conjure, however we don't have evidence for that either. Magic is poorly represented in the game with very little lore on how it actually functions and what are the divides between what a Ritual is and what is a conjure. So we can only speak definitively about what the game lore says it was. And much of the necromancer's magic, especially blood magic, is ritual magic.

    I think its safe to say that rituals are just a process of casting a spell, much like how elementalists, mesmers, and necromancers probably have studied books that have specific ways to cast different spells, much like in harry potter where you have a movement and a word to help produce it. Rituals are also related to tradition. So back to ritualist having a vast history in gw1, the rituals have been passed down for ages. Now of course rev wouldn't have these rituals, but if they are in fact tapping into the same energy field I don't feel like its absurd to think that if the 3rd expansion does take place in Cantha, which has had no contact with the outside world for a long time, I don't think its absurd that revenants come in contact with ritualists who still practice and can help teach revenants how to use and perfect their magic that they have found. And also, you have to take into consideration that revenants descended from warriors who happened upon some mist magic. Had a scholar stumbled upon this magic you might see it take a different form, but no other profession is tapping into the mists like revenant is. The only other profession to ever do that is the ritualist from gw1 so that kinda has to make you wonder a bit.

    Revenant magic might not even have a catagory it can fall into. Ritual or Conjure or something else. As it was stated that its new magic. So we need to take in context clues as to what these are. Necromancers in the past 250 years have adopted Bones into their clothing and armor more frequently. This is a fact. Why is this relevant? Well, lets take a look at Ritualist armors from the past. They're all using bones and teeth and animal leather. Its a part of their design to suggest their connection with death. These are decorative choices which holds a different meaning when comparing it to the Ranger who uses bones and leather as trophies or for practical purposes. The revenant doesn't wear bones, they don't dance, their is no evidence that they preform rituals. There is no suggestion that they could even summon spirits independent of their legend's abilities. There is evidence showing they can warp spacetime! So we need to work with what we can see. Not what we think it could be.

    Just because something is newly discovered, doesn't mean it hasn't existed or has been utilized in the past. The Americas were visited many times by outsiders before Columbus ever arrived, but to Columbus and those who had sent him it seemed like new land. But the land had an ancient past and history that people were just unaware of until they met the native people. So in this instance, Revenants would be more like christopher columbus and America would represent the ritualist magic. The natives on the other hand would be the true ritualists. The natives taught the intruders how to live on the newly found land, similarly to how i think ritualist can teach revenants how to live with the newly found magic.

    And at the moment, yeah, revenants can only use the abilities of the legends they commune with. But how many times has rytlock gone to the mist and talked with spirits, literally half in the physical world, and half in the spirit realm. And apparel changes of course wouldn't be similar because no ritualists were known in the advent of the revenant. Its similar to as if elementalist had been forgotten about for hundreds of years and one day a warrior in another land found out he could manipulate magic and control the elements. But he used this to enhance his sword. You would get something similar to the weaver, but in heavy armor instead of robes and scholarly books, and the magic would probably be toned down greatly. This warriormancer thing would probably not be casting meteors down from the sky with his new abilities because A, he probably doesnt know how to because no one taught him anything, hes freeballing it, and B he has been a warrior his whole life so he is probably using his new abilities to compliment his old ones rather than his new ones. But you wouldn't go as so far to say he wasn't somehow at least partially an elementalist, it would be ridiculous to classify his magic as something other than that kind of magic.

    The only teachings revenants have recieved were from glint to rytlock. In context of whats going on in the gaming universe, a group of lovecraftian horrors are plagueing the planet and help is needed fast. Possibly glint only had time to teach rytlock the most powerful and essential teachings, and there wasn't time for the nuanced ritualist magic that could take decades to perfect. Using powerful legends and invoking powerful skills that already is probably the best she could have taught at the time. It was what was needed the most. She didn't need to teach him how to summon bloodsong, drop ashes for effects, or any of that, but she taught him how to summon the power of some of the strongest spirits residing in the mists to enhance his physical capabilities. That to me is revenants channeling and binding spirits to themeselves to force these spirits/mist beings to do their bidding. When a revenant uses Rite of the Great Dawrf, it isn't actually casting the spell themeselves but acting as a conduit to have Jalis Ironhammer cast the spell through them. Its honestly the fact that revenant and ritualist are the only two professions who are completely focused on accessing the mists for their powers that make it feel like revenant is more akin to rits than necros.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:

    No one is denying that they are similar, but it's always been a distinction that ritualist and necromancers are seperate in there schools of thought. They may cross some lines into what they dabble in, but they operate differently and have opposing philosophies. The dancing thing and the whole ritualist casting animations are of course not going to be in gw2 at all because this game is fast based action combat and not a stand still and cast type of game like the first guild wars was, so obviously its not going to be represented in neither revenant nor necromancer. Also, I think it can be safe to say those dancing and whatever the ritualist do were methods for accessing the spirit before magic was introduced to them, so it was probably just something that stuck around and probably make casting magic easier. But, revenant has had no teacher or passing down of teachings. It's a new entity that seems to have tapped into the same energy and magic that ritualist have, albeit using it in a different way. Using a spirits strength build on a ritualist often lacked skills that had any sorta of ritualistic dance animations. And I would argue that that necromancers diverge further from rit/rev when it comes to dealing with spirits and legends. Necromancers could give a kitten less about drawing the powers and spells from spirits, legends, and named characters. They just want to use death magic their own way and not by channeling spirits. Ritualist probably have more in common with Norns than anything else, because they actively communicate with the nature spirits and draw upon their strength for combat. But I wouldn't consider any of that necromancer. Necromancy defiles the dead, it doesnt respect or work with the spirits.

    OKay, there is a lot of misinformation here that needs to be cleared up. First off, No, there schools of thought are not separate. Not even remotely. Their methods for achieving the same thing is a bit different but not at all drastically so. AND I can actually prove this with the way the necromancer and the ritualists talk and act in both games. Both have a reverence for the dead but how they do that is a bit different. Ritualists are more focused on the past, what was while Necromancer's are more interested in the manipulation of death. Where they diverge in their undead practices is the level of personal danger each are willing to take onto themselves.

    "Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies. In sacrificing Health and taking curses and diseases upon themselves, they can deal large amounts of damage to those foolish enough to oppose them. Dead and dying enemies become unwilling allies in their hands. Necromancers have the singular ability to absorb Energy from an enemy’s death, and can raise a fighting force from the corpses of their foes. Curses, which often cost the Necromancer dearly, exact an even greater toll from enemies, who find that their Enchantments and healing skills are rendered useless. Due to the sacrificial nature of their methods, Necromancers must practice patience and self-discipline to survive."

    "Ritualists channel other-worldly energies that summon allies from the void and employ mystic binding rituals that bend those allies to the Ritualist's will. They hood their eyes to better commune with spirits that grant great power and protection to Ritualists and their comrades. The energy they channel drives Ritualist skills which enhance the deadliness of an ally's weapon and wreak havoc on an enemy's health. The Ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living-not by reanimating corpses as a Necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes. Where the Ranger lives as one with the spirit world, the Ritualist can and will be its master."

    Those are quote from the manuscript. Necromancer doesn't just "Dabble" in the spirit realm, they're feat first into it. Their methods are two sides of the same coin. The parallels between them is drastic. But we also need to look at how the necromancer's behavior has changed over the past 250 years, which it absolutely has.

    "Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon the dead, wield the power of lost souls, and literally suck the life force from the enemy. Necromancers feed on life force, which they can use to bring allies back from the brink or cheat death itself."

    You should also look at what the necromancers in the game are saying themselves. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Akesi_Xuni Follow the link. "Torches are symbolic. They light the way to the other side. We're necromancers; death follows us wherever we go. We use it, but we also respect it. The torches remind us."

    Ritualists also absolutely do not respect the spirits as you said. They seek to control them. The animation of the spirits in GW1 even suggest they are in agony. They writhe and cry and shiver as they're forced to take damage for allies. The Ritualists even use things like "Offering of Spirits which harms themselves if they don't control a spirit. They even use skills to feast on souls because they are not philosophically different from the necromancer. Their methods are slightly different and their limitations are as well. But they are just as cruel, just as sadistic, just as power hungry.

    And at the moment, yeah, revenants can only use the abilities of the legends they commune with.

    Actually, I used to think this but this isn't actually the case. Revenant's actually DO have their own magic, all be it minor in comparison to the power they receive from the Legends they channel. The revenant uses a new type of magic not seen before them. They can freely rip holes into reality and rupture spacetime. Its not something to overlook. Revenant is basically a walking fractal maker.

    The only teachings revenants have recieved were from glint to rytlock. In context of whats going on in the gaming universe, a group of lovecraftian horrors are plagueing the planet and help is needed fast. Possibly glint only had time to teach rytlock the most powerful and essential teachings, and there wasn't time for the nuanced ritualist magic that could take decades to perfect. Using powerful legends and invoking powerful skills that already is probably the best she could have taught at the time. It was what was needed the most. She didn't need to teach him how to summon bloodsong, drop ashes for effects, or any of that, but she taught him how to summon the power of some of the strongest spirits residing in the mists to enhance his physical capabilities. That to me is revenants channeling and binding spirits to themeselves to force these spirits/mist beings to do their bidding. When a revenant uses Rite of the Great Dawrf, it isn't actually casting the spell themeselves but acting as a conduit to have Jalis Ironhammer cast the spell through them. Its honestly the fact that revenant and ritualist are the only two professions who are completely focused on accessing the mists for their powers that make it feel like revenant is more akin to rits than necros.

    Most of what you said is just speculation which is why I didn't address it as it doesn't really have any weight in the conversation. its more fan theory than anything which is what I have a problem with when it comes to the revenant. When we're talking about revenant we need to understand some facts. Rytlock never explained exactly how he got the new magic. He actually dodges the question a lot and only later mentions how he got Sohothin back, not how he got the powers themselves. He mentions he learned something from an old friend, which only suggests how he learned to channel Glint specifically, not how to channel the legends in general.

    There is a lot of missing information and what I've been saying we we can't make absolute statements like you've been making about the revenant when there isn't absolute information. I don't believe Glint taught him but I can't prove that. From my perspective of what we've seen in the lore is its most likely that he viewed the eternal alchemy, what Scarlet saw in the mists, not that he was actually taught anything. But that's my speculation.

    Also, No, Ritualists are not completely focused on the mists. They're focused on the dead. You have to remember as well that the people of Guild wars 1 understood the mists much differently than the people of Guild Wars 2. The ritualist focused on the Underworld and realm of torment and possibly the hall of heroes. The Revenant has no such limitation. The Revenant is more or less hacking the mists. The necromancer is very much focused on the connections of the mists as well, but they're more specialized in the Underworld and realm of torment, much like the Ritualist is. These facts are undeniable.

    If you want to speculate on Revenant's limitations to their powers, I'm all for it. I'd love to do that. But I'm not going to humor the idea that the Ritualist = Revenant because the lore, clues, history all does not point to that. But I'm honestly DONE with this conversation. I'm DONE with arguing these points because you guys never bring new evidence I might have missed, its always based on the blindfold and a title. I need a lot more to go on than that. Not wild speculation. I need concrete evidence! Give me a revenant in training in the game trying to scry the mists with bones and I'll tell you you've got something! But as it is, even the Renegade NPC is suggesting she's viewing a fractal, not that its related to the ritualist.

    ON another note! Lets talk about the mechanics of my take on it. Because its more fun for me.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    "Your suspicion" being what exactly? :D

    That you're more interested in picking an argument than having a discussion. You're looking at people who seem to have similar positions to what you're advocating, and you're finding details to pick fights over.

    To make one last attempt, though: the relevance of the observation comes from context that you might have missed. There is a claim floating around that ritualist themes should be piled exclusively onto the revenant, because revenants are ritualists (this is an oversimplification, but it's the general gist). This is not true: revenants are not ritualists, and in fact, revenants did not even exist in Guild Wars 1. Furthermore, there is precedent for ritualist elements being used by other professions, both in GW2, and in GW1 through secondary professions.

    If you're not taking the perspective that ritualists and revenants are the same thing, then this isn't relevant to you, and I don't see why you'd be making such a big deal about a point that isn't relevant to your position and which you don't seem to understand, unless your motivation is purely to pick a fight. Particularly given the aggressive fashion in which you're pursuing it.

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:

    You can't use playstyle similarities as an argument here because gw1 and gw2 have completely different playstyles. ele's play completely different in both games, but you wouldn't make the argument that gw2 elementalist isn't the same as gw1 elementalist. Because they both are channeling and attuning to the elements. Similarly, both rit and rev put on blindfolds to better commune with the spirit world and summon otherworldy energies from the mist. But even with playstyle similarities then renegade makes an attempt at being a spirit spammer. It literally summons named spirits, as well as having a spirit that dazes just like ritualist. it has both offensive and supportive spirits, just like ritualist. This is in contradiction to rangers who only have supportive spirits, and necromancers who only have offensive minions, a clear distinction that is stated in the description of ritualist from gw1. Hell, even when communing spirits like Shiro you hear shiro say "I demand that you release me!" because he is forceably bound to the revenant until the revenant releases him. Basically the same as how rit spirits are bound by chains. The only difference is most of legends are revenants channel are benevolent and are willing to help the revenant, so it seems almost as a mutual relationship.
    >

    I think this is the core of the discussion.

    Revenant is essentially to ritualist as guardian is to monk. They're drawing on basically the same energies, but they have a different focus on how they use that power, the most significant being that revenants and guardians are soldier professions that use magic mostly to augment and support their combat capabilities, while ritualists and monks are scholar professions.

    Is it possible for a revenant to behave like a ritualist? Certainly. The point I've been making all along, though, is that this is exactly what renegade is doing. The very specialisation that you've used here to prove they can do that is the one where they've already done that. We don't need a second ritualist-esque elite specialisation for the revenant, at least not right after we've just had one - it'd be better for the third elite specialisation to be something different rather than a take two at attempting to appease the ritualist crowd. Furthermore, I don't think it's practical to attempt to get anything closer to a ritualist than ventari/kalla renegade already does while staying within the basic mechanics of revenant.

    ArenaNet was quite upfront back in the day that the engineer was intended to be the "home" for ritualist playstyles in terms of mechanics. Revenant, meanwhile, it intended to be its own thing, not a ritualist substitute. It has a lot of thematic similarities, but it's not the same thing.

    Meanwhile, there's not only nothing in the lore that prevents other professions from dabbling in ritualism, there's precedent for it.

    The closest you're likely to get to a ritualist (apart from turret engineer being adjusted back into something that could be specialised in) is probably going to be adding to one of the existing scholar professions. Elementalist and mesmer are both built around their own special mechanics that wouldn't really work well with the ritualist feel. Necromancer is therefore not only a thematically similar profession (both operate around death) but one where it's reasonably practical to overlay ritualist on top. (Again, though, it might not be called that... and one could say that scourge has already gone in this direction.)

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    "Your suspicion" being what exactly? :D

    That you're more interested in picking an argument than having a discussion. You're looking at people who seem to have similar positions to what you're advocating, and you're finding details to pick fights over.

    Ah, so literally what I wrote about you in the previous post, I see.
    But if you actually read what I initially answered to and what I subsequencially wrote, then that's just not true. On the other hand you "jumped in" to tell me I'm wrong and then proceeded to share a very similar opinion to mine. Just go and re-read it.

    To make one last attempt, though: the relevance of the observation comes from context that you might have missed. There is a claim floating around that ritualist themes should be piled exclusively onto the revenant, because revenants are ritualists (this is an oversimplification, but it's the general gist). This is not true: revenants are not ritualists, and in fact, revenants did not even exist in Guild Wars 1. Furthermore, there is precedent for ritualist elements being used by other professions, both in GW2, and in GW1 through secondary professions.

    That's great, but then it feels you're not answering to what I said, but to "something some people claim". And "rev not being in gw1" still is not an argument in the slightest, I somehow doubt you don't understand that. Gw2 professions taking on parts of ritualist is also what I wrote, so I'm really not sure what you're trying to argue here.

    If you're not taking the perspective that ritualists and revenants are the same thing, then this isn't relevant to you, and I don't see why you'd be making such a big deal about a point that isn't relevant to your position and which you don't seem to understand, unless your motivation is purely to pick a fight. Particularly given the aggressive fashion in which you're pursuing it.

    Where did I write anything about rit and rev being the same thing? From my perspective it seems you're the one picking a ""fight"" while claiming I said something I never did just because you think I might share opinion that some people have. I guess you might have just not understand what I wrote.

    tl;dr you're arguing about something I never wrote. Why? Who knows, maybe you just misunderstood what you've read.