Bring Infuse Light in line - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bring Infuse Light in line

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  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Just make the Poison condition reduce its duration by 33%; the counter to it should be the same as any other heal skill.

    Poison already reduces the heal by 33%, it is just as countered by poison as most other heals.

    Except for the fact that Poison is the highest damaging condition next to Burning, and any stacks of Poison on the Revenant will also be healing them, thus negating the penalty as people pointed out above in several posts regarding conditions.

    And which condi classes apply more than 2 psn stacks?
    Great, youll heal 300 per sec but reduce all other heals by 33%
    Mostly thief applying psn, healing you for like 40 sec

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Infuse Light is broken against
    1 Condition builds ( full heal every time )
    2 Bad players ( they will attack into it )
    3 In large scale fights ( run into people and get healed easy peasy + aoe )
    just think how slim the chance is that at least 1 of those wont occur, and even if it doesnt, you can still use it reactively to "block" strong hit to heal at the very least 6k+
    so bottom line is, if you use it properly you will heal AT LEAST as much as other healing skills.
    but when conditions are met ( most of the time anyways ) you not only get full heal but also pseudo invuln to go with it.
    and you have kitten 2 heals anyways

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just for the sake of science, I dusted off my old condition herald build without even updating to the new traits and played as I stated. What do you know, I was already full health and still having at Infuse Light having an extra second almost everytime which I find kind of insulting to my ability to pop it at the right time so often because it would have already been fantastic with only 2 seconds Endure Pain style. Under any condition burst, that's already more than 5k healing which is the problem here with the heal because it allows for way more health than any Revenant heal can do under the most dangerous circumstances if you put Empowering Misery next to it, Breakrazor's Bastion can comparably heal as much but that requires an AoE to stand and healing power as Revenant only has outgoing healing in it's traits.

    @Leonidrex.5649 And that's what I meant with that duration, if people use it right even at 2 seconds. It'll heal just as much if not more depending on what comes out. The current "right" way is however exploitable, it gets tiring to see people actively thinking, need an heal so I'll just step in that chaotic hot spot and have Infuse Light lasting for way longer than it needs to be to come out full health with all the tools necessary to clear and do a defensive rotation then be back in the game in less than 10 seconds and no even if you can do that with Defiant Stance, it's ALL they have.

    The purpose of the skill is activate it at precise crucial moments and be rewarded for it, but with that duration it's just not like that right now. People can say as much as they want with it's "tell", that's the reason why it's so strong as it can keep anyone from wanting to burst you in the first place with 60% HP, however because of it's "full health" aspect, which don't get me wrong, it makes sense to do that. People forgot those aspects of it and just go for that full heal instead, everytime which is the unhealthy part. Revenant has two heals, healing for 5k with it is far from bad and there's always the possibility to reward good plays even more which is what I am in favor of, even if it was only 2 seconds. With only those seconds, you can still do the same tricks as well, just to an extend that is less cancer to the people who even if they can try their best not to will eventually have to do "something", power can bait stow, but conditions can't, same for AoE's and given the RIGHT conditions regardless once again since I feel like I have to repeat myself, with either of those scenarios (One condition bait or one AoE bait) players still get to heal for more than they can bargain for if things are getting critical.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Yet no one complains about defiance stance or even use it apart from zerging in wvw.

    If given the choice between the current IL or an IL that performs like mendings, a flat 6.5k heal and remove 3 conditions but with 30s cd. I'm sure a lot of revs will choose the latter.

    Also while we're at it Shiro heal also has counterplay. It can be reflected, blocked, or evaded. So let's remove the counterplay to Shiro heal as well. Or is counterplay only good if it hurts the Rev and bad if they benefit?

    Based. Shiro heal has to be the worst kitten in this game (just use a reflect and heal yourself) and with the nerfs done to him recently legend is unplayable

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Yet no one complains about defiance stance or even use it apart from zerging in wvw.

    If given the choice between the current IL or an IL that performs like mendings, a flat 6.5k heal and remove 3 conditions but with 30s cd. I'm sure a lot of revs will choose the latter.

    Also while we're at it Shiro heal also has counterplay. It can be reflected, blocked, or evaded. So let's remove the counterplay to Shiro heal as well. Or is counterplay only good if it hurts the Rev and bad if they benefit?

    Based. Shiro heal has to be the worst kitten in this game (just use a reflect and heal yourself) and with the nerfs done to him recently legend is unplayable

    I think this is also why people are noticing it more is because when Glint+Shiro was meta Infuse Light was basically your only healing skill while Malyx has a very respectable healing skill in it's own right. This is basically the first time we've seen Rev's double healing skills actually in practice since at least Path of Fire's release.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • SPESHAL.9106SPESHAL.9106 Member ✭✭✭

    It's clearly overperforming, but I think ANET can handle working out the proper way to bring it in line. There are tons of options.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2020

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    More importantly that’s blatantly not true. Many other classes have much higher access to stability, break-stuns, invulns, or even a passive “oh kitten” trait (unholy sanctuary).

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    I can assure you it has been. But there were too much stuff going around for people to notice it.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    More importantly that’s blatantly not true. Many other classes have much higher access to stability, break-stuns, invulns, or even a passive “oh kitten” trait (unholy sanctuary).

    "guard and necro broken" so im allowed to be broken too! REEE

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    [[ In the corner not caring about infuse light because one of the first things learned was how to not hit Defiant Stance in pvp ]]

    Some of these threads popping up are kind of silly now and they all seem to be backed by the same group of people for some reason.

    Imo IL is such a risk that you will be getting almost nothing. With reduced damage now you aren’t healing much unless you IL right into a Worldly Impact type attack or multiple strikes from several people.

    Just bait the IL and then resume attacking after it expires with big damage skills.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    I can assure you it has been. But there were too much stuff going around for people to notice it.

    Ultimately that’s just your opinion. Just like mine is that it isn’t a problem. Especially since I’ve seen successful revs not using Glint at all.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    More importantly that’s blatantly not true. Many other classes have much higher access to stability, break-stuns, invulns, or even a passive “oh kitten” trait (unholy sanctuary).

    "guard and necro broken" so im allowed to be broken too! REEE

    Great argument. Real big brain. I’m not even just talking about guard and necro lmao. Don’t put words in my mouth I never said condi rev wasn’t overtuned. Just that infuse light isn’t the issue. Learn some reading comprehension

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    I can assure you it has been. But there were too much stuff going around for people to notice it.

    Ultimately that’s just your opinion. Just like mine is that it isn’t a problem. Especially since I’ve seen successful revs not using Glint at all.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    GL activating this skill at the right moment while being chain CCed to oblivion.

    How many players can consistently stop the 0.25 cast on the Facet? Probably no one.

    Chain CC them when they're not in Glint. Or before they activate the facet at all and have already blown Gaze of Darkness. With skillful play or a co-ordinated duo/team it's not that hard to do. Rev is so incredibly weak to CC now it's absolutely insane and should be the go to strategy to deal with revenant. But you can't just spam it it has to be done skillfully and with proper timing when Rev is in the wrong stance or has blown a ton of CDs and energy (preferably both).

    Facet of Light isn't even oppressive either. I've seen plenty of strong revenant builds lately that have dropped Glint entirely.

    You should become a game designer.
    Counter to broken skill should be CC chaining for so kitten long that you cant get 0.25s cast off.
    You know what gets countered by hard CC like that? EVERYONE kitten ELSE

    It hasn’t been broken for the past 5 years and it’s certainly not broken now.

    More importantly that’s blatantly not true. Many other classes have much higher access to stability, break-stuns, invulns, or even a passive “oh kitten” trait (unholy sanctuary).

    "guard and necro broken" so im allowed to be broken too! REEE

    Great argument. Real big brain. I’m not even just talking about guard and necro lmao. Don’t put words in my mouth I never said condi rev wasn’t overtuned. Just that infuse light isn’t the issue. Learn some reading comprehension

    your words -> Many other classes have much higher access to stability, break-stuns, invulns, or even a passive “oh kitten” trait
    who the kitten has stability? only guard and scrapper.
    stun removal? warrior runs 2 gigacooldown, mesmer usually runs 1 and uses it as mobility on top.
    invulns? please lol

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2020

    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    Again, as stated above, 'don't attack' doesn't work.

    -instant cast time means there is no animation to watch for unless you aren't attacking them (in which case, they aren't using the ability). Why did anyone think instant cast heals were a good idea.
    -Your first 1-2 hits are going to heal them even if you attempt to stop
    -All condi pressure heals them. Even incidental condis (they exist on almost every class).
    -Pulsing fields heal them a lot. Guard symbols, neco wells, even mesmer illusions often a free full heal.

    Even if you only hit them once, Infuse Light is a 3s invulnerability that doesn't require a channel. So its already the best invuln ability in the game. Add in the above cases, and its probably the single best ability in the game. As stated by other posters, it single handedly carries herald. Add in the commonly used Crystal Hibernation on shield and you are looking at 6s invuln on <30s cd. Thats absurd.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephoid.4263 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    Again, as stated above, 'don't attack' doesn't work.

    -instant cast time means there is no animation to watch for unless you aren't attacking them (in which case, they aren't using the ability). Why did anyone think instant cast heals were a good idea.
    -Your first 1-2 hits are going to heal them even if you attempt to stop
    -All condi pressure heals them. Even incidental condis (they exist on almost every class).
    -Pulsing fields heal them a lot. Guard symbols, neco wells, even mesmer illusions often a free full heal.

    Even if you only hit them once, Infuse Light is a 3s invulnerability that doesn't require a channel. So its already the best invuln ability in the game. Add in the above cases, and its probably the single best ability in the game. As stated by other posters, it single handedly carries herald. Add in the commonly used Crystal Hibernation on shield and you are looking at 6s invuln on <30s cd. Thats absurd.

    at first, there is an animation followed by an extreme loud beep sound.
    second u can clearly see if an herald has the "facet of light" ready or not. If they have, then the heal wont far away.
    Revs have nothing against condis, infuse light can only extend their lifes by some seconds, since all condis tick more than just the 3sec heal duration.

    and last thing: Crystal Hibernation is absolute kitten. It has nothing to do with an invulvn. Its just a cheap block, with root & way too high energy cost. It can be broken by any skill with the "unblockable" stacks. AND condis continue to damage while being in Crystal Hibernation.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowering_Misery this is 75% of good heal skills, not 50%.
    Nobody uses Jalis but https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Stone is very strong.

    The problem with Infuse Light is, you also have a backup heal skill however bad it is (they aren't that bad). Defiant Stance or AED is only one heal skill.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    at first, there is an animation followed by an extreme loud beep sound.
    second u can clearly see if an herald has the "facet of light" ready or not. If they have, then the heal wont far away.
    Revs have nothing against condis, infuse light can only extend their lifes by some seconds, since all condis tick more than just the 3sec heal duration.

    and last thing: Crystal Hibernation is absolute kitten. It has nothing to do with an invulvn. Its just a cheap block, with root & way too high energy cost. It can be broken by any skill with the "unblockable" stacks. AND condis continue to damage while being in Crystal Hibernation.

    Ah yes, all those 'unblockable' abilities that are still in common use. Literally only TWO non-elite abilities in the game can break you out of it. necro staff 5 and thief shortbow 5. Both are on weapons without high pressure capability.

    Yeah, condis continue to tick. Thats why its infuse light into a sec or two pause into crystal hibernation. Almost all condi duration got nerfed and most abilities aren't ticking after 5s. The combination of the two is 7-8s where you CANNOT focus fire the rev and the rev effectively full heals.

    Consume Conditions got heavily nerfed. It has a 1.25s cast time. It also now gives 5 stacks of vuln. At minimum, infuse light is now better than consume conditions with the condi duration nerf.

    'rev have nothing against conditions' is such a complete and utter kitten answer. Fix the class, stop relying on such an incredibly overbloated and absurdly powerful heal. EVERY OTHER CLASS has had this treatment for overperforming single abilities.

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tbh I think IL is fine, maybe needs a small cast time but is all.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the idea of a counterplayable heal with the potential to heal more than other heal skills. If IL healed as much as other heal skills (on average) in the scenario that people actually hit you, it would be a trash-tier heal. A high maintenance skill with none of the reward to act as a counterbalance.

    From what I can gather here, the heal amount is only a symptom of a larger issue: The counterplay to IL is difficult to access under the right scenarios.

    Here's how I would fix that:

    Disclaimer: I am not saying these changes should be made. I am stating one direction Anet could take to make the skill "feel" more fair to play against.

    First, lets look at the name of the skill, Infuse Light. What if, instead of infusing themselves, the rev slashed all enemies around them in a radius with a luminescent blade. Enemies hit are infused with light for 3 seconds. Their strikes will now heal instead of dealing damage. Abilities with CC/condi components in addition to white hits will not apply CC or condis. Additioally, the Rev will recieve a flat heal if at least one target is struck (~2500 hp), and a smaller heal for each target hit beyond the first. (~500hp)

    This skill would act an an AoE pseudo CC where enemies can still move, but must play differently for the next 3 seconds in order to avoid healing others to full.

    This is much easier to see coming since you can react to both the blade and the infuse mechanic itself. It does not work against condis that were already applied to the rev, and in an AoE scenario, the Rev will not heal from targets that were not struck by the blade.

    On the flip side, the rev will be able to use this skill to give allies an effective 3 seconds of damage immunity when attempting to peel.

    This would almost certainly be a net nerf since anyone with a brain will not hit you while infused. The actual amount healed in this scenario would be about ~50% of other heals, but that's what you guys seem to be asking for.

    I should add, Rev will need to receive buffs to their cleanses if this change is made. I would also suggest buffing the heal amount in PvE.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Its a thought, but an awful one. Now, not only is the rev invulnerable, everyone is. Best support ability in the game. Invuln to everyone in the area for 3s. It would go from hating on condi to demolishing power builds (since condi would be unaffected).

    A better idea on the same thought, the infuse would cause the next X hits by enemies hit will heal for XXXX quantity and cure a condition from their target. If you put the number in the 1.5k range, most abilities can't deal damage.

    At minimum, it needs a cast time. Almost every heal in the game has a cast time. FB's no cast time heal got nerfed into oblivion. Why is rev keeping the absurd quality of heal and keeping no cast time.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    It's hard to understand why fellow revs disagree on IL be an endure pain style skill instead with the new patches. It's more than playable and leaves a requisite to the skill being extremely potent still instead of being extremely in favor of conditions and having a low skill ceiling.

    There is a great discrepancy in between Power and Condition Damage that really affects the pace of this skill and it gets tiring to see that people say once IL is over, people die over whatever. Revenant whether Core, Herald or Renegade has a lot of potent ways to come back from any type of pressure if you know the class, instead what we see is complains that everything else is inferior and that the class is unplayable outside of Herald which is false, terribly false.

    With the turn of events the game is taking, 2 seconds slight increase to healing for IL is more than fair given most i-frames are seeing BIG nerfs and it'll take care of the stupid behavior people employ with it, down to properly timing it.

    I will highlight a bunch of reasons why IL would still be strong with this nerf to 2 seconds and increased base heal, which I personally have done in practice and would stop me from over performing;

    • Resistance on demand whether playing Mallyx or not via different ways. (Which was nerfed with the energy cost increase, stop complaining about Mallyx, it's fine now.)
    • Shield even if people tend to say it's bad, it's strong, especially with Healing Power.
    • Defensive rotations as Shiro have a minimum of 7 cleanses and up to 12 depending on your weapons, Jalis makes it 17 along it's Condition Damage reduction available.
    • Despite the unwarranted nerf on Permeating Pestilence (Please Anet restore it to 3, Necromancer BARELY has been touched and this is all core Revenant has.), that's still a lot of cleansing overtime.
    • Mallyx Facet is offensively broken right now as True Nature radius needs to be reduced.
    • You have another legend to fall back to in many ways which makes the skill incomparable to Defiant Stance or A.E.D.

    If there's a few things that need to be changed that would be;

    • Facet of Chaos cooldown is too high and needs to be the same as PvE at 20 seconds, it plays a big role in mitigating damage and rune usage. Staff 5 also badly nerfed, this is far from being like before.
    • Facet of Darkness was overnerfed, Empty Vessel was taken out and all stunbreaks were nearly rounded up, there's no reason for Gaze of Darkness to be STILL on a theoretical 5 seconds CD after switching legends TWICE.

    Might forget something but Revenant in anyway right now has more viable builds than some other classes, Herald is overperforming and needs to be tweaked accordingly.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Zephoid.4263 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    at first, there is an animation followed by an extreme loud beep sound.
    second u can clearly see if an herald has the "facet of light" ready or not. If they have, then the heal wont far away.
    Revs have nothing against condis, infuse light can only extend their lifes by some seconds, since all condis tick more than just the 3sec heal duration.

    and last thing: Crystal Hibernation is absolute kitten. It has nothing to do with an invulvn. Its just a cheap block, with root & way too high energy cost. It can be broken by any skill with the "unblockable" stacks. AND condis continue to damage while being in Crystal Hibernation.

    Ah yes, all those 'unblockable' abilities that are still in common use. Literally only TWO non-elite abilities in the game can break you out of it. necro staff 5 and thief shortbow 5. Both are on weapons without high pressure capability.

    Yeah, condis continue to tick. Thats why its infuse light into a sec or two pause into crystal hibernation. Almost all condi duration got nerfed and most abilities aren't ticking after 5s. The combination of the two is 7-8s where you CANNOT focus fire the rev and the rev effectively full heals.

    Consume Conditions got heavily nerfed. It has a 1.25s cast time. It also now gives 5 stacks of vuln. At minimum, infuse light is now better than consume conditions with the condi duration nerf.

    'rev have nothing against conditions' is such a complete and utter kitten answer. Fix the class, stop relying on such an incredibly overbloated and absurdly powerful heal. EVERY OTHER CLASS has had this treatment for overperforming single abilities.

    what do u have with crystal hibernation lel. If ,like u said, everyone still attacks the IL-rev with full condis etc, then he will die when he activates crystal h.

    This is not an immunity! Its one of the worst block skills in the game. Every other class has better block skills and the most even more than one. so stop relying on it

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Wow I actually agree. 20k worth of hp, instant cast and 3s of convert all dmg taken to heal which is twice as good as invulnerability since if you hit someone with invuln you just do no dmg instead of healing them. I can see now this skill needs a major nerf. First, just completely remove the 3s of damage conversion since its just way too overpowered and give them baseline heal like everyone else. Second, the 20k hp value in its current state is way too high. Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill. Finally just for good measures, nerf the instant cast. Take away the 1/4s cast time on facet of light DOUBLE it to 1/2s and slap it on Infuse light instead.

    And to all those complaining that infuse light will be garbage after the 2x casttime increase, 50% reduced effectiveness, and removal of 3s godmode. I think it is more than fair.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why are you seriously talking about nerfing infused light? The only thing that makes this class able to compete in the player vs player modes. Or have u seen any renegades in pvp in high tiers yet?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Why are you seriously talking about nerfing infused light? The only thing that makes this class able to compete in the player vs player modes. Or have u seen any renegades in pvp in high tiers yet?

    No it's not and there is all sort of revenants, IL deserves to get nerfed to 2 seconds on the profession standards.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Wow I actually agree. 20k worth of hp, instant cast and 3s of convert all dmg taken to heal which is twice as good as invulnerability since if you hit someone with invuln you just do no dmg instead of healing them. I can see now this skill needs a major nerf. First, just completely remove the 3s of damage conversion since its just way too overpowered and give them baseline heal like everyone else. Second, the 20k hp value in its current state is way too high. Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill. Finally just for good measures, nerf the instant cast. Take away the 1/4s cast time on facet of light DOUBLE it to 1/2s and slap it on Infuse light instead.

    And to all those complaining that infuse light will be garbage after the 2x casttime increase, 50% reduced effectiveness, and removal of 3s godmode. I think it is more than fair.

    Unless I'm reading this incorrectly what you're suggesting would actually be a buff. 10k is nothing to scough at. A change like this would remove much of the skill involved in using this ability however (timing it when major burst is about to hit you, hence the short cast time to allow the rev to time it properly)

    I like Shao's idea of nerfing the duration to 2 seconds so that the skill works in it's intended purpose (Anti-burst) and not as a pseudo-immunity.

    Or alternatively, removing the invuln and making it an attack that heals the rev for each target struck. Something which brings the skill in line without homogenizing it with every other generic heal. Changes like these only serve to make the game feel more dull and samey over time. (insert joke here about how that's exactly what WoW did and how that game is dying)

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Wow I actually agree. 20k worth of hp, instant cast and 3s of convert all dmg taken to heal which is twice as good as invulnerability since if you hit someone with invuln you just do no dmg instead of healing them. I can see now this skill needs a major nerf. First, just completely remove the 3s of damage conversion since its just way too overpowered and give them baseline heal like everyone else. Second, the 20k hp value in its current state is way too high. Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill. Finally just for good measures, nerf the instant cast. Take away the 1/4s cast time on facet of light DOUBLE it to 1/2s and slap it on Infuse light instead.

    And to all those complaining that infuse light will be garbage after the 2x casttime increase, 50% reduced effectiveness, and removal of 3s godmode. I think it is more than fair.

    Unless I'm reading this incorrectly what you're suggesting would actually be a buff. 10k is nothing to scough at. A change like this would remove much of the skill involved in using this ability however (timing it when major burst is about to hit you, hence the short cast time to allow the rev to time it properly)

    I like Shao's idea of nerfing the duration to 2 seconds so that the skill works in it's intended purpose (Anti-burst) and not as a pseudo-immunity.

    Or alternatively, removing the invuln and making it an attack that heals the rev for each target struck. Something which brings the skill in line without homogenizing it with every other generic heal. Changes like these only serve to make the game feel more dull and samey over time. (insert joke here about how that's exactly what WoW did and how that game is dying)

    I assure you you're reading this correctly. My suggestions will nerf the overpowered infuse light that has "20K worth of hp value" to half of it's current effectiveness and remove its 3s of godmode. This nerf would probably make Leonidrex and every Herald main very happy.

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Why are you seriously talking about nerfing infused light? The only thing that makes this class able to compete in the player vs player modes. Or have u seen any renegades in pvp in high tiers yet?

    Are you talking to me? If so I suggest you reread my comment. My suggested nerfs are more than fair. Trust me on this one.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Wow I actually agree. 20k worth of hp, instant cast and 3s of convert all dmg taken to heal which is twice as good as invulnerability since if you hit someone with invuln you just do no dmg instead of healing them. I can see now this skill needs a major nerf. First, just completely remove the 3s of damage conversion since its just way too overpowered and give them baseline heal like everyone else. Second, the 20k hp value in its current state is way too high. Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill. Finally just for good measures, nerf the instant cast. Take away the 1/4s cast time on facet of light DOUBLE it to 1/2s and slap it on Infuse light instead.

    And to all those complaining that infuse light will be garbage after the 2x casttime increase, 50% reduced effectiveness, and removal of 3s godmode. I think it is more than fair.

    Unless I'm reading this incorrectly what you're suggesting would actually be a buff. 10k is nothing to scough at. A change like this would remove much of the skill involved in using this ability however (timing it when major burst is about to hit you, hence the short cast time to allow the rev to time it properly)

    I like Shao's idea of nerfing the duration to 2 seconds so that the skill works in it's intended purpose (Anti-burst) and not as a pseudo-immunity.

    Or alternatively, removing the invuln and making it an attack that heals the rev for each target struck. Something which brings the skill in line without homogenizing it with every other generic heal. Changes like these only serve to make the game feel more dull and samey over time. (insert joke here about how that's exactly what WoW did and how that game is dying)

    I assure you you're reading this correctly. My suggestions will nerf the overpowered infuse light that has "20K worth of hp value" to half of it's current effectiveness and remove its 3s of godmode. This nerf would probably make Leonidrex and every Herald main very happy.

    I think you re high on something. You want a 10k heal and call it a nerf. lmao. Most heals are something like 5k-7k. When leonidrex mention 20k heal it was another way to say full heal. So I don t really know why the kitten should anyone have a 10k heal **flat **, especially rev who has 2 heals.
    You should really think twice before posting on a rev's topic because you re obviously biased asf.

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:
    Wow I actually agree. 20k worth of hp, instant cast and 3s of convert all dmg taken to heal which is twice as good as invulnerability since if you hit someone with invuln you just do no dmg instead of healing them. I can see now this skill needs a major nerf. First, just completely remove the 3s of damage conversion since its just way too overpowered and give them baseline heal like everyone else. Second, the 20k hp value in its current state is way too high. Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill. Finally just for good measures, nerf the instant cast. Take away the 1/4s cast time on facet of light DOUBLE it to 1/2s and slap it on Infuse light instead.

    And to all those complaining that infuse light will be garbage after the 2x casttime increase, 50% reduced effectiveness, and removal of 3s godmode. I think it is more than fair.

    Unless I'm reading this incorrectly what you're suggesting would actually be a buff. 10k is nothing to scough at. A change like this would remove much of the skill involved in using this ability however (timing it when major burst is about to hit you, hence the short cast time to allow the rev to time it properly)

    I like Shao's idea of nerfing the duration to 2 seconds so that the skill works in it's intended purpose (Anti-burst) and not as a pseudo-immunity.

    Or alternatively, removing the invuln and making it an attack that heals the rev for each target struck. Something which brings the skill in line without homogenizing it with every other generic heal. Changes like these only serve to make the game feel more dull and samey over time. (insert joke here about how that's exactly what WoW did and how that game is dying)

    I assure you you're reading this correctly. My suggestions will nerf the overpowered infuse light that has "20K worth of hp value" to half of it's current effectiveness and remove its 3s of godmode. This nerf would probably make Leonidrex and every Herald main very happy.

    I think you re high on something. You want a 10k heal and call it a nerf. lmao. Most heals are something like 5k-7k. When leonidrex mention 20k heal it was another way to say full heal. So I don t really know why the kitten should anyone have a 10k heal **flat **, especially rev who has 2 heals.
    You should really think twice before posting on a rev's topic because you re obviously biased asf.

    No, if you really think I want a 10k heal you are high on something.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

    Oh I don't know. Maybe you were to understand that Leonidrix over exaggerated the current effectiveness of IL to a point where even a 50% reduction of his stated claims are still a BUFF to the actually current state of IL?

    I also like how you called me out when you though I actually wanted a 10k heal but you didn't call Leonidrex out when he claimed "IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k" just because both of you wants IL to be nerfed then turn around and call me bias.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

    dum dums use sarcasm to feel smart.
    ofc he failed to read what I wrote properly and now he gets kitten about it, cant be avoided with these people.
    Just look at him, guy go so mad that he made a post for the first time in his life to make a snarky comment lol.
    @szeng.1267
    and for you my man since you might have problems with reading.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against CONDI BUILDS
    Made it better for you! hope you spot it now, CHeers!

    You say that as if "20K worth of hp against condi builds" isn't an exaggeration.

    its not, or do I need to play again to post 5k+ burn ticks for you from guards?
    or 3k ticks of torment from revs etc etc. unfortunately for most IL has to be used with brain to make most of it.
    If you cant get insane value out of it then you are the problem

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

    dum dums use sarcasm to feel smart.
    ofc he failed to read what I wrote properly and now he gets kitten about it, cant be avoided with these people.
    Just look at him, guy go so mad that he made a post for the first time in his life to make a snarky comment lol.
    @szeng.1267
    and for you my man since you might have problems with reading.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against CONDI BUILDS
    Made it better for you! hope you spot it now, CHeers!

    You say that as if "20K worth of hp against condi builds" isn't an exaggeration.

    its not, or do I need to play again to post 5k+ burn ticks for you from guards?
    or 3k ticks of torment from revs etc etc. unfortunately for most IL has to be used with brain to make most of it.
    If you cant get insane value out of it then you are the problem

    So the problem is Infuse light and not the 3-5k ticks?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

    dum dums use sarcasm to feel smart.
    ofc he failed to read what I wrote properly and now he gets kitten about it, cant be avoided with these people.
    Just look at him, guy go so mad that he made a post for the first time in his life to make a snarky comment lol.
    @szeng.1267
    and for you my man since you might have problems with reading.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against CONDI BUILDS
    Made it better for you! hope you spot it now, CHeers!

    You say that as if "20K worth of hp against condi builds" isn't an exaggeration.

    its not, or do I need to play again to post 5k+ burn ticks for you from guards?
    or 3k ticks of torment from revs etc etc. unfortunately for most IL has to be used with brain to make most of it.
    If you cant get insane value out of it then you are the problem

    So the problem is Infuse light and not the 3-5k ticks?

    condi can be dodged, IL cant. but I would say some condi are overpowered yes.
    condi being OP doesnt mean Il is not OP. Its seriously the strongest healing skill in the game that I know.
    Warrior has "better" version but war cant fall back on sec heal, so there is risk/reward there, rev has only reward or huge reward.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then nerf Defiant Stance, AED, and Signet of Ether too.

    jokes aside.... just dont attack. Its one of the most obvious things to see if the herald has its aspect of light "prepared" ,or its healing buff active.

    Also if Infuse lights gets an herald instantly an big chunk of health back, then it would be time to nerf some classes damage.

    if you use it right at WORST.
    its 1850 heal from active + whatever damage 1 skill deals.
    If you play perfectly against infuse light Rev will heal AT LEAST 5k+ with 1/4s casttime.
    and that assumes its 1v1, you have no condis and you dont follow with an attack.
    any condi = more heal.
    any pulsing aoe = more heal
    more people = more heal.
    I would say on average this ability heals propably about 10k on 1/4s casttime.
    do something with this, inc casttime to at least 3/4s or reduce duration or increase cooldown, or remove the insta heal part of it etc etc.
    Its the best heal in the game RN
    Argument of defiant stance could be mede but rev has 2 heals -.-

    Condis are most likely to continue damaging even after infuse light.
    u can see if the passive facet of light is there or not, if yes heralds have less energy to spend. esp in pvp....
    most players can predict when it comes or not.

    and the 2 heal thingy: 2 heals from rev are almost as strong as the heal from a warrior,only with longer casting.
    Infuse light & defiant stance are not counted in, since they almost never heal against experienced players

    condi continuing to damage is meaningless, it has nothing to do with IL.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against condi builds, meaning it provides 20k worth of HP value, on top of 3s on cant touch this.
    Removal of expertise made long duration conditions no longer a big deal for IL.
    From mesmer side thats expertise ammy + 2% per boon got nerfed so conditions last 30-40% shorter duration, meaning you cant overstack them when IL is on.
    Counterplay is gone, only broken heal remains.

    Nerf the heal value by 50% to 10k and give it a 1.0 healing coefficient like every other healing skill.

    What was I supposed to understand from this sentence?

    dum dums use sarcasm to feel smart.
    ofc he failed to read what I wrote properly and now he gets kitten about it, cant be avoided with these people.
    Just look at him, guy go so mad that he made a post for the first time in his life to make a snarky comment lol.
    @szeng.1267
    and for you my man since you might have problems with reading.
    IL negates 10k dmg and heals for 10k against CONDI BUILDS
    Made it better for you! hope you spot it now, CHeers!

    You say that as if "20K worth of hp against condi builds" isn't an exaggeration.

    its not, or do I need to play again to post 5k+ burn ticks for you from guards?
    or 3k ticks of torment from revs etc etc. unfortunately for most IL has to be used with brain to make most of it.
    If you cant get insane value out of it then you are the problem

    So the problem is Infuse light and not the 3-5k ticks?

    condi can be dodged, IL cant. but I would say some condi are overpowered yes.
    condi being OP doesnt mean Il is not OP. Its seriously the strongest healing skill in the game that I know.
    Warrior has "better" version but war cant fall back on sec heal, so there is risk/reward there, rev has only reward or huge reward.

    Right because power revs can fall back on their trusted enchanted daggers. And playing against a power build that knows where their stow weapon button is for a nice 1.8k heal is so rewarding. IL is only over tuned against over tuned condi builds which shouldn't exist in the first place.

    And no warriors choose Mending to counter condi builds. If infuse light/defiant Stance is as good as you say against condi they would choose defiant stance instead. If IL is 20k worth of hp defiant stance is worth 26k hp.

    You seem like you let the one dodge nerf on mirages get to your head and wants to see other power classes get dumped on for the sake of nerfing their over performing condi counter part.

    if you cant use IL to "block" big hits with its "long" 1/4s cast time its l2p issue.
    and I already told you why defiant stance has issues, its the ONLY heal warrior has, if warrior missplays it, he can not heal for 30s.
    rev still has daggers.
    As for mending it has synergy with warrior and low cooldown, you can run cleansing sigil + swap cleansing trait, and preety much swap + heal to get 5 cleanses off ( full cleanse most of the time ) every 20s

  • szeng.1267szeng.1267 Member ✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    if you cant use IL to "block" big hits with its "long" 1/4s cast time its l2p issue.
    and I already told you why defiant stance has issues, its the ONLY heal warrior has, if warrior missplays it, he can not heal for 30s.
    rev still has daggers.
    As for mending it has synergy with warrior and low cooldown, you can run cleansing sigil + swap cleansing trait, and preety much swap + heal to get 5 cleanses off ( full cleanse most of the time ) every 20s

    If you cant stow weapon to cancel your big hits that's also a l2p issue. Funny how that works. Or are you also going to defend big hits with such low cast time that you can't cancel it once casted?

    Daggers is not a reliable heal to fall back on. As it can be reflected, blocked, or dodged.

    Power revs is the only class with 2 heals yet both the heals can be out played to essentially only heal for 1.8k each and in terms of daggers it can heal the enemy and dmg the rev. You know kinda like how IL works but in reserve and much worse as you are healing the enemy and dmging yourself with your own heal skill. But of course this is probably fine for you.

    As I said before if you want to remove the counter play to IL then turn it into a decent flat heal and also remove the counters to daggers.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    if you cant use IL to "block" big hits with its "long" 1/4s cast time its l2p issue.
    and I already told you why defiant stance has issues, its the ONLY heal warrior has, if warrior missplays it, he can not heal for 30s.
    rev still has daggers.
    As for mending it has synergy with warrior and low cooldown, you can run cleansing sigil + swap cleansing trait, and preety much swap + heal to get 5 cleanses off ( full cleanse most of the time ) every 20s

    If you cant stow weapon to cancel your big hits that's also a l2p issue. Funny how that works. Or are you also going to defend big hits with such low cast time that you can't cancel it once casted?

    Daggers is not a reliable heal to fall back on. As it can be reflected, blocked, or dodged.

    Power revs is the only class with 2 heals yet both the heals can be out played to essentially only heal for 1.8k each and in terms of daggers it can heal the enemy and dmg the rev. You know kinda like how IL works but in reserve and much worse as you are healing the enemy and dmging yourself with your own heal skill. But of course this is probably fine for you.

    As I said before if you want to remove the counter play to IL then turn it into a decent flat heal and also remove the counters to daggers.

    enchanted daggers can be reflected becouse otherwise it would be broken heal too ?
    1/2s cast time 6k+ heal that also deals damage, ofc cant be interrupted becouse 1/2 cast time. while everyone else has 3/4 or 1s
    And nobody will cancel cast times against IL, becouse you are not forced to use it, you actively lose damage every times you stow anyway, if you keep stowing then the fact you have IL alone generates value, without even using it. Unless you know for a FACT someone is going to use IL stowing is a bad thing to do, there are times where it will come into play but its not something that will happen much. and even if it does its 1v1 only.
    AT WORST Il is 1,8k heal with 3s invulnerability.
    As for enchanting daggers, hmm how about dont use it when enemy has reflects? Its like one of the only skills that can be reflected, just use it when you can.
    Its not like condi mes that gets 90% of skills reflected back.
    Who can actually reflect it? Guard in the right tome -> use when they are on different one or cd.
    Thief with daggerstorm -> dont attack daggerstorming thief?
    Shield block from warrior -> dont attack shieldblocking warrior?
    What else is there? lol. Proj block is the most people can do, and its ele aoe wind and smoke from thief.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @szeng.1267
    A good Infuse Light is one that doesn't have the person giving the opportunity to stow and use it as the damage comes in, lot of people want to make this skill noob proof and I agree with the decision of it. Because it's going to take care of the condition problem of it as well as the lack of risk in teamfights for a free full heal every 30 seconds because of AoE spam, also the problem of "LOL REV HAS NOTHING BUT HERALD" mentality. Many people including myself are proving that wrong.

    We don't care about 1v1's, they are irrelevant to the issue of teamfights and the fact most Heralds wait until they have 0% to full health and back away over and over.

    As I have said before, normally this skill shouldn't be able to reward this much unless given the perfect opportunity like Mallyx does aka crucial timing and not 3 seconds of "Wait for AoE Spam, Wait for Condi burst, Wait for Team Focus" back out rinse and repeat. 5k is more than enough of a heal and it's time people realize it when Revenants themselves have 2 to use strategically and on a silly average of every other heal skill in the game, people have less health than that every 30 seconds yet still manage.