Where is Wing 8, and raids need better rewards. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Where is Wing 8, and raids need better rewards.

It's Wednesday night, I'm logging into my favorite game Guild Wars 2. It has the best form of combat in an MMO and I really love raiding. It's the most challenging content in the game and is really satisfying when you win. So I go to the LFG tool. I look, and there are no raids happening. Not a single one. It's the same old story. Everyone has already got their clears from the Monday-Tuesday rush. So I quietly log off the game, sad I didn't get to have my fun in favor of some inferior game.

That's my typical night after Tuesday. Monday and Tuesday are great because everyone is clearing raid bosses with zeal. But think if there was a daily for kill a "specific raid boss" or kill a "PoF/HoT raid boss" that was part of the 10 daily achievement points, and it had a special little reward chest just like "Mist Guard Killer" or "Kryta Vista Viewer". Inside the chest is XX Gaeting crystals or Mag Shards respectively that don't count towards the weekly cap. Then people would at least be more inclined to run that boss or more generally run raids more than just 2 days a week heavy then nothing for the rest of the time.

Also really hoping for news about Wing 8 soon! It's been 9 months and I'm excited for more challenging content!
Strikes don't really do it for me, sorry, but they just are too boring and easy.

<1

Comments

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2020

    Content releases always draw a lot of players from other content. The Visions of the Past content drop is also significantly bigger than expected, and one of the main foci here: strikes, is in direct competition to raid content from a player attention perspective.

    The best way to circumvent this issue is:

    • play the content with how it was designed in mind: find a guild. Guild members of mine were raiding on both Wednesday and Thursday night (EU time zone) without any issues. Unfortunately, even if they do need to fill up via PUGs, those spots go fast.

    There has been no information on any new raids. At this point in time, I would not get my hopes up that any new wings are coming any time soon.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have been raiding whole week everyday around 18:00 server time-23:00st and there has been always many groups in LFG from trainings to 50 end boss KP runs all the time.
    EU

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find the new reward system for strikes to be pretty solid, may i suggest smth like that for raids as well?

  • The two comments about raids being fine are coming from EU servers. I'm in NA and it's a whole other story over here. NA raid LFG is empty after Tuesday every week consistently. Ignore the fact that there is a new release of content this week as it has little impact on this point. My point is that it's always like this, and I think a daily reward could get people to raid more than just the first 2 days of the week.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I find the new reward system for strikes to be pretty solid, may i suggest smth like that for raids as well?

    agree. when i played wow, weekly chests from mythic dungeons were rly cool, and i like the implementation of new strikes rewarding system

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    Indeed, also in this post they specifically said they need/want to support the hardcore audience so its almost a given they will add another raid.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    Indeed, also in this post they specifically said they need/want to support the hardcore audience so its almost a given they will add another raid.

    Or they might be planning to make only strikes for hardcore audience🤢
    Meanwhile we can only hope for the best and fear the worst.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    Indeed, also in this post they specifically said they need/want to support the hardcore audience so its almost a given they will add another raid.

    Or they might be planning to make only strikes for hardcore audience🤢
    Meanwhile we can only hope for the best and fear the worst.

    touche, although they confirmed their adding a fractal cm so thats also a path to go in.
    I'd rather stay optimistic though.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    Indeed, also in this post they specifically said they need/want to support the hardcore audience so its almost a given they will add another raid.

    Or they might be planning to make only strikes for hardcore audience🤢
    Meanwhile we can only hope for the best and fear the worst.

    touche, although they confirmed their adding a fractal cm so thats also a path to go in.
    I'd rather stay optimistic though.

    Yeah same.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well with a new raid would need new Legendary carrot or something. Another Legendary trinket?

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if they saved the new raids for Cantha or at the very least have strike missions. They seem to be able to pump those out at a fast rate then raid wings, for obvious reasons.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yeah legendary armor isn't good enough

    Te lazla otstara.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well with a new raid would need new Legendary carrot or something. Another Legendary trinket?

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if they saved the new raids for Cantha or at the very least have strike missions. They seem to be able to pump those out at a fast rate then raid wings, for obvious reasons.

    Dont give them any ideas, I dont wanna learn the new wing only to be able to craft legendary underwater breather.😂

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well with a new raid would need new Legendary carrot or something. Another Legendary trinket?

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if they saved the new raids for Cantha or at the very least have strike missions. They seem to be able to pump those out at a fast rate then raid wings, for obvious reasons.

    Dont give them any ideas, I dont wanna learn the new wing only to be able to craft legendary underwater breather.😂

    Fair enough I’m just basing this on the history of the last couple of wings.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well with a new raid would need new Legendary carrot or something. Another Legendary trinket?

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if they saved the new raids for Cantha or at the very least have strike missions. They seem to be able to pump those out at a fast rate then raid wings, for obvious reasons.

    The prospect of having to wait another year plus for Wing 8 hurts my soul. I get that their most recent communication said it's difficult for them to justify putting out a new wing due to the audience, but right before that they also said they intended to release raids at a faster rate. It's wishy washy info.

    Truth be told, strikes are a poor substitute and will never be raids. I maintain that the only reason they are getting such attention right now is due to the daily reward structure they just came up with. People are reward driven after all.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    Look on the bright side, at least raids won't ever become outdated.

  • you already got the only flashy legendary armor.

    And for this alone raids do not need any more rewards. At all.

    Also I am questioning your 'most challenging content' line. What is so challenging about raids? A lot of it could be done by a script. Just go to coordinate xyz, execute perfect rotation, on timer/hp X, dodge twice, execute rotation again.

    Boring to the max.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    About next wing, Anet already made a clear explanation long time ago that wing 7 is the last wing of raid, and they also said that the majority player of this game is not favor to raid too, so it's not worth to continue this sub project.

    "Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter." https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    There might be hope, they also said that they were not planning new expansion, but here we are

    Indeed, also in this post they specifically said they need/want to support the hardcore audience so its almost a given they will add another raid.

    Or they might be planning to make only strikes for hardcore audience🤢
    Meanwhile we can only hope for the best and fear the worst.

    touche, although they confirmed their adding a fractal cm so thats also a path to go in.
    I'd rather stay optimistic though.

    Fractal CM confirmed indeed.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Well with a new raid would need new Legendary carrot or something. Another Legendary trinket?

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if they saved the new raids for Cantha or at the very least have strike missions. They seem to be able to pump those out at a fast rate then raid wings, for obvious reasons.

    The prospect of having to wait another year plus for Wing 8 hurts my soul. I get that their most recent communication said it's difficult for them to justify putting out a new wing due to the audience, but right before that they also said they intended to release raids at a faster rate. It's wishy washy info.

    Truth be told, strikes are a poor substitute and will never be raids. I maintain that the only reason they are getting such attention right now is due to the daily reward structure they just came up with. People are reward driven after all.

    I have a funny suspicion that Raids are toast and that strike missions will be the way challenging end game content going forward. If they do another set of raids, then maybe they will go to 8-10 with a new Legendary reward (back pack?) for maybe a Cantha setting, thinking the Deep or Urgoz Warren, but they could just make those strike missions too.

  • I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something to make people play them past monday tuesday when all the statics get there clears done in the first 2 days I have two active accounts that i raid on and even then i kind of burn through them by wendsday helping friends in there statics like toss people a daily chest with some exotics or like 1 gold or 2 per wing or like anything some stupid low chance at things a few extra shards not on the weekly cap something to so people can have more incentive to help there friends or the rando pug group they see cuz there bored online and hey may as well help that wing 2 starting ill get a gold instead of forgetting raids are a thing until next monday tuesday. Atm raids have a small community it needs to grow but Anet dosent give us a reason to keep running raids throughout the week. So the community seems even smaller than it already is.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    Also I am questioning your 'most challenging content' line. What is so challenging about raids? A lot of it could be done by a script. Just go to coordinate xyz, execute perfect rotation, on timer/hp X, dodge twice, execute rotation again.

    Same can be said about basically every game. No human can beat a computer in chess. Even games like starcraft are unwinnable against ais. Computer is better at everything which requires a decision in a very short timeframe and isnt creativity based.
    Not really sure what your point is, pvp is basically react to x with y aswell.

  • there is a difference between an AI and a script with a timing loop.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2020

    Legendary glider prehaps?
    Legendary mount skin ?

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    The two comments about raids being fine are coming from EU servers. I'm in NA and it's a whole other story over here. NA raid LFG is empty after Tuesday every week consistently. Ignore the fact that there is a new release of content this week as it has little impact on this point. My point is that it's always like this, and I think a daily reward could get people to raid more than just the first 2 days of the week.

    Nono, you forgot to add that on the NA side its filled to the brim with Collection/Achievement sellers after Tuesday, at least it is when i get on. Theres maybe one or two legit groups throughout the day, and posting your own just leads to hours of sitting around not getting people to join because all the players who do raids have already for the most part finished their weekly bosses unless they are in a static who does them on saturday.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The rather infrequent content release schedule is the only real issue I see. There needs to be a new wing every six months (not even considering the hardcore players here) to keep people busy. We are talking about a game that does not require you to grind levels or gear between releases afterall. Even the more casual groups manage to finish the newest wings in just a few months, to then be forced to go through another long period of boredom. That's not how you maintain a healthy community.

    Not sure about "better rewards". There would need to be something crazy to make the old crowd return and get excited over. I don't see that happening. ArenaNet knows how much of a controversy that would be.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    The rather infrequent content release schedule is the only real issue I see. There needs to be a new wing every six months (not even considering the hardcore players here) to keep people busy. We are talking about a game that does not require you to grind levels or gear between releases afterall. Even the more casual groups manage to finish the newest wings in just a few months, to then be forced to go through another long period of boredom. That's not how you maintain a healthy community.

    Not sure about "better rewards". There would need to be something crazy to make the old crowd return and get excited over. I don't see that happening. ArenaNet knows how much of a controversy that would be.

    I don't think something crazy needs to be offered. Just some sort of incentive. Look at strikes. They have a rotating daily and a new weekly chest you can open in EotN that offers a chance at precursors and other highly desirable items albeit at an extremely low percentage. If they implemented something like this for raids, it would offer a reason for people to form groups after mag shard and gaeting crystal capping by Tuesday.

  • Euclid.2517Euclid.2517 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    you already got the only flashy legendary armor.

    And for this alone raids do not need any more rewards. At all.

    Also I am questioning your 'most challenging content' line. What is so challenging about raids? A lot of it could be done by a script. Just go to coordinate xyz, execute perfect rotation, on timer/hp X, dodge twice, execute rotation again.

    Boring to the max.

    This comment is underestimated :o

    Comparing to other games, raid in GW2 is relatively easy (including CMs) if people know what they are doing and trust one another. Also the gearing process isn't harsh and expensive.

    Definitely, this game's old engine isn't what keeps me here.

    What keeps me here is the spirit of this game: an MMO where everyone has a place. Which sadly many people have forgotten.

    You can get almost anything you want (except super expensive pinata infusions etc.) as long as you work on it.

    Raid rewards are fine for me: infusions, armors and ring.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ollyhp.7306 said:
    I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something

    I think a raid Daily is probably a really good idea.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Ollyhp.7306 said:
    I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something

    I think a raid Daily is probably a really good idea.

    So the people burn out even faster? Yeah, definitely a good idea.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Ollyhp.7306 said:
    I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something

    I think a raid Daily is probably a really good idea.

    So the people burn out even faster? Yeah, definitely a good idea.

    ANET: "We have stopped offering Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer because people got burned out looking at the scenery"

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Ollyhp.7306 said:
    I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something

    I think a raid Daily is probably a really good idea.

    So the people burn out even faster? Yeah, definitely a good idea.

    ANET: "We have stopped offering Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer because people got burned out looking at the scenery"

    If daily vista viewer required as much effort as a single raid wing, you can bet it would lead to burnout. On a massive scale.
    The reason why dailies can function is because they don't take a lot of effort to do.

    On the other hand, raid burnout is already very much a thing. Having people do raids on daily basis, instead of just once per week, would not make it any better.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Ollyhp.7306 said:
    I think they don't necessarily need better rewards but more like a daily reward or something

    I think a raid Daily is probably a really good idea.

    Well they could make Raids similar to Fractals, give their rewards on a daily lockout instead of a weekly one. Fractal CMs are like that and take as much time/effort as most of the Raids. Alternatively, they could go the regular Fractal route and add some wings (or a single wing) as a daily every day providing extra rewards, or tweak Call of the Mists to rotate more often, although gold and experience aren't the most valuable rewards.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    Nah raid dailies are a bad idea. It would be better to have an endgame reward which could potentially make you play raid on a daily basis outside out of the weekly reward and which makes you play raids in conjunction with strike missions for example.

    Imagine if you could upgrade the crystals obtained in SM by participating in raid encounters :)

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wing 8 is useless thing, till the raid concept will be changes. Now that raid, for 2%, if we look optimistic. If we cut and keep only who complete all cms the % was so small, that we need ask abort raids at all.
    You need check and play other content, wvw ot etc. Riads is past.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @flog.3485 said:
    Nah raid dailies are a bad idea. It would be better to have an endgame reward which could potentially make you play raid on a daily basis outside out of the weekly reward and which makes you play raids in conjunction with strike missions for example.

    Imagine if you could upgrade the crystals obtained in SM by participating in raid encounters :)

    My idea for this thread was to spur reasons to get people to raid more often than Mon-Tues. This is a cool outside the box idea to get that result. I still think a raid encounter daily would be a good idea, but definitely like that you're coming up with alternatives that could achieve what I'm trying to make happen! :)

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.
  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as the 'new raids', you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as the 'new raids', you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK.

    Anet's game direction was "We want strikes to promote people to play raids." This was stated multiple times by the dev team. To imply otherwise is your speculation of what you think they think, not what they have actually stated.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as the 'new raids', you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK.

    Anet's game direction was "We want strikes to promote people to play raids." This was stated multiple times by the dev team. To imply otherwise is your speculation of what you think they think, not what they have actually stated.

    OK .. that doesn't change what I said ... if Anet wants people to play strikes and that leads to raiding ... then why WOULDN"T they put better loot in strikes? According to you ... that reason is completely academic and ignores the goals Anet has for the game.

    And you're right, I am speculating somewhat ... and I wrote my post to reflect that. So I urge you to read more closely instead of trying to make that a point to make some academic argument about.

    So my statement still stands. I will change it just a tad so you don't get hung up on pedantics:

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as a path to lead to raiding, you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as the 'new raids', you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK.

    Anet's game direction was "We want strikes to promote people to play raids." This was stated multiple times by the dev team. To imply otherwise is your speculation of what you think they think, not what they have actually stated.

    OK .. that doesn't change what I said ... if Anet wants people to play strikes and that leads to raiding ... then why WOULDN"T they put better loot in strikes? According to you ... that reason is completely academic and ignores the goals Anet has for the game.

    And you're right, I am speculating somewhat ... and I wrote my post to reflect that. So I urge you to read more closely instead of trying to make that a point to make some academic argument about.

    So my statement still stands. I will change it just a tad so you don't get hung up on pedantics:

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as a path to lead to raiding, you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK

    I don’t really see the issue with harder content equals better loot. It sounds stupid if you say harder content = kitten loot. Makes very little sense or logic.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You want raids to have better rewards? Weren't you the one complaining raids rewarded precursors?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101831/precursor-as-potential-reward-for-strike-missions-seriously

    So 2 things with this.

    1. That other thread was about strikes having better rewards than raids (aka chances at precursors) and how that didn't make sense to me as raids are harder content and therefore should be more enticing than the supposed content that Anet has made to feed them. (aka strikes)
    2. This thread is about getting more people to raid more often than they are. Just look at the LFM any time after Tuesday in NA servers and you can see that there is a clear problem with the design of the content for retention.

    So instead you want to have raids having better rewards than strikes? That doesn't appear to align with Anet's direction for the game. I've seen zero raids released recently ... I've seen more than zero strikes released in the same time.

    Correct. Harder content should be more rewarding than easier content imo. Otherwise, people will just settle with what's easier since it offers more rewards as well.

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as the 'new raids', you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK.

    Anet's game direction was "We want strikes to promote people to play raids." This was stated multiple times by the dev team. To imply otherwise is your speculation of what you think they think, not what they have actually stated.

    OK .. that doesn't change what I said ... if Anet wants people to play strikes and that leads to raiding ... then why WOULDN"T they put better loot in strikes? According to you ... that reason is completely academic and ignores the goals Anet has for the game.

    And you're right, I am speculating somewhat ... and I wrote my post to reflect that. So I urge you to read more closely instead of trying to make that a point to make some academic argument about.

    So my statement still stands. I will change it just a tad so you don't get hung up on pedantics:

    So just to be clear, even though you understand Anet likely wants to promote strikes as a path to lead to raiding, you think they need to adhere to some principle of harder content = better loot. So your argument is purely academic and ignores Anet's likely game direction and goals? OK

    I don’t really see the issue with harder content equals better loot. It sounds stupid if you say harder content = kitten loot. Makes very little sense or logic.

    OK ... I'm not saying it's an issue ... I'm just saying it doesn't seem aligned with how Anet wants to promote strike missions.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ofc we will see wing 8. Will be that wiht exp3, or later, after one of few year after relise we don't know. May be it will be after 5 years. And this is ok. 98% still not complete current raids from 1 to 7. So let them do it in chill mode.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2020

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    It's Wednesday night, I'm logging into my favorite game Guild Wars 2. It has the best form of combat in an MMO and I really love raiding. It's the most challenging content in the game and is really satisfying when you win. So I go to the LFG tool. I look, and there are no raids happening. Not a single one. It's the same old story. Everyone has already got their clears from the Monday-Tuesday rush. So I quietly log off the game, sad I didn't get to have my fun in favor of some inferior game.

    That's my typical night after Tuesday. Monday and Tuesday are great because everyone is clearing raid bosses with zeal. But think if there was a daily for kill a "specific raid boss" or kill a "PoF/HoT raid boss" that was part of the 10 daily achievement points, and it had a special little reward chest just like "Mist Guard Killer" or "Kryta Vista Viewer". Inside the chest is XX Gaeting crystals or Mag Shards respectively that don't count towards the weekly cap. Then people would at least be more inclined to run that boss or more generally run raids more than just 2 days a week heavy then nothing for the rest of the time.

    Also really hoping for news about Wing 8 soon! It's been 9 months and I'm excited for more challenging content!
    Strikes don't really do it for me, sorry, but they just are too boring and easy.

    Wing 8 is on a table somewhere. Don't think you'll be seeing it soon as when they talked about raids they did not seem too enthusiastic and they seemed to kind of beat around the bush. But they did confirm fractals will keep going~ I think Raids are going the way of dungeons, and strikes/visions are their replacement friend.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

    Raids

    Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.
    Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike > Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.
    Regardless of if that succeeds or not, we understand the importance of balancing our efforts between accessible content with broad appeal, and content that appeals to the more hard core audience, and recognize that we need to do a better job of supporting the latter.

    ^That suggests that raids simply are not worth developing in current time due to their small appeal, and even smaller playerbase. Or At least not so much not developing but not developing in how they were made in times prior, this suggests if we do see a wing 8 it will be more like 7 at best. Super easy, so the underworld might very well along with maybe twin largos be the tougher fights. Or they might move to strikes/visions as its seemed to me that strikes have no brought more people into raiding, it certainly did not make me want to raid. My friends who do raid tell me the population seems more same'ol same'ol to them. So either there isn't much new blood trickling over and the community is resistant to it, or the raiding guilds lost so many people they are gobbling up who-ever they can find to fill their ranks back out..

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Raids are a trickier beast.

    yes, strike is a good step to raids. ... Ofc to start this step you common need link 250li or 50kp+ from Dhuum, to get pass in normal party, but step is good.
    Great idea !!

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Raids are a trickier beast.

    yes, strike is a good step to raids. ... Ofc to start this step you common need link 250li or 50kp+ from Dhuum, to get pass in normal party, but step is good.
    Great idea !!

    That was what a developer said, Im just not certain strikes actually will manage to push people to raiding. It sure as heck hasn't enticed me at all.