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We should probably look at Lightning Rod

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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you can smash anyone with anything if you try hard enough, if its an even fight is another story

    edit, how do you die to condi as warrior with 16s cd full condi clear that heals for 6k?

    It's 3 condis, its 20 seconds, it can be dazed because it's obvious?

    peak performance to lower it to 16, then cleansing sigil + condi clear on swap ( what is it 4-5s cd? ) and do giga clears :D but ya, daze could work if not counterpressured properly hmmm

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you can smash anyone with anything if you try hard enough, if its an even fight is another story

    edit, how do you die to condi as warrior with 16s cd full condi clear that heals for 6k?

    It's 3 condis, its 20 seconds, it can be dazed because it's obvious?

    peak performance to lower it to 16, then cleansing sigil + condi clear on swap ( what is it 4-5s cd? ) and do giga clears :D but ya, daze could work if not counterpressured properly hmmm

    Just to correct you there, the sigil CD is still 9 secs. So it doesn't matter how often he can swap.

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2020

    When you say "Pulm is nerfed" or "Lost Time, Power Block" etc has been nerfed and LR is the last trait of the variety that hasn't been, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding the differences between classes. That is not a good argument. Ele's damage is too low to operate without Lightning Rod as of now, it needs massive buffs if Lightning Rod were to be nerfed.
    Lets be clear here, Weaver has almost 0 stab, almost 0 condi cleanse, and almost 0 ways to resustain right now, all it has is it's damage and it's weakness.
    So we can nerf Lightning Rod, putting its weakness down to 1s base and nerfing the damage by 1/2 or something, and buff everything on Ele thats needing it. I'm cool with that. Except thats also a buff to Lightning Rod in 90% of the changes they could make the spec.
    ArenaNet is not good at nerfing unhealthy gameplay and rebuffing the class in the areas it should be buffed to compensate, its a very bad idea to nerf the only thing keeping a should be underperforming class up close to the high end especially without understanding how the class works, or how or where to re-compensate it .

    ******I'm all for Lightning Rod being nerfed, however Elementalist needs compensation for it.******

    Weaver has been pigeonholed into playing a scuffed version of Fresh Air Weaver that runs Lightning Rod and tries to burst the same way Fresh Air has/had in the past.
    Weaver needs to be pushed back in the direction of a bruiser rather than teamfight/roaming where it is now. To become more of a bruiser it needs a reliable way to heal its self, like Steam Surges water field going up in duration and Riptide going back to a 9s recharge but nerfing or even removing the evade frames from it(this provides counterplay to remove the consistent way of healing through rupting the Riptide to prevent the field even). However the damage on Lightning Rod will need to be toned down, otherwises you'll just take Lightning Rod still and reap the buffs that came with the healing coming back.

    Making a sidenode Ele build sucks right now, it has for the past 2 years, if its not a condi build so it can abuse Primordial Stance/Glyph/LavaSkin/Weave Self 20% modifier, you do no damage and you just take Water. Power Fire Weaver isn't good, even though Fire is amazing. Power damage on Weaver doesn't work very well unless its uncounterplayable like Lightning Rod or Scepter Fresh Air bursts, getting a CC chain for 6+ seconds as a Power Fire Weaver PREPATCH would result in only like 8k damage(this is with old CC doing damage mind you), meanwhile a warrior would've been able to do 30k easily within those 6 seconds of CC locking. This is for comparisons sake, I know CCs dont do damage anymore, but its to prove a point of, you either 1 shot on it, like you do now or with old Fresh Air, or you play death by 1000 cuts (which doesn't even really work) or you just intentionally spec out of even doing the slightest bit of damage.

    Which brings me to point 2 of Weaver Sidenoding Sucks; some of those condition skills I mentioned got slightly overnerfed, they would've been fine with the 1.5 treatment if you could still get decent burning duration, but with the nerf to the duration that traits and runes give, speccing into even more things than you did prepatch results in less than 1/2 of the damage that you'd get from speccing into ZERO duration prepatch. Probably buff the Burning duration on Primordial Stance(maybe glyph but idk i hate that skill, and so do most afaik) to actually function with the little bit of duration you can get right now.
    Without those skills doing decent damage you're also forced into the same decision making of death by 1000 cuts or intentionally forfeiting your damage and taking Water or Earth.

    Overall almost every ele skill does too little damage.
    What needs to be done is somehow:
    Nerf Lightning Rod to where it doesn't become OP with all the buffs Weaver gets, this may involve making the trait terrible.
    Buffing the damage to where you don't need to spec into all of these stupid extra damage things like Berserker Amulet or Air's Ferocity but making it not an issue like it is now when you do. Buffing its condition damage is a simple fix to making Air or Berserker amulet not an issue but bringing up its damage.
    Adding a reliable way to consistantly heal like it had prepatch.
    Nerf Earth and Water to where these sustain buffs don't make you want to run no damage setups like Prot Holo or Bunker Rev.
    Nerf the very few overperforming sustain traits Weaver has, mainly Smothering Aura cleanse to 1 on transmutation instead of 2.
    Ele needs to still be able to roam around like it was able to with Fresh Air or LR.

    To be quite honest Fire Weaver prepatch was exactly what Weaver should've been as a Bruiser and the only negative things anyone had with it from what I know was how overtuned it was, its been destroyed as a choice and will never see play in its current state. I have my thoughts on exactly what I would buff and nerf to bring it back where I think it'd see play but not be overtuned like it was.

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2020

    Oh, please change tornado to the following:
    Increase the CD by 20-30%
    Increase the automatic knockback pulse from 3 seconds to 3.5 seconds, giving you a window to dodge before the second pulse hits you, which you don't have right now.
    Increase Dust Charge's CD in sPvP to 12 seconds so you can only use it once per Tornado.
    Nerf Electrified Tornado's power scaling by 50% and remove 1 bounce or cast.

    These changes add alot to Tornado, now to CC lock you have to forfeit Electrified Tornado casts (you dont have to cast the KB during Tornado a single time right now)
    Dust Charge is more punishing to whiff, and doesn't reward you for camping Tornado for the whole duration.
    More counterplay to the default KB it does.
    Great changes all around, makes the skill actually engaging, have more counterplay, and more skillful.

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you can smash anyone with anything if you try hard enough, if its an even fight is another story

    edit, how do you die to condi as warrior with 16s cd full condi clear that heals for 6k?

    It's 3 condis, its 20 seconds, it can be dazed because it's obvious?

    peak performance to lower it to 16, then cleansing sigil + condi clear on swap ( what is it 4-5s cd? ) and do giga clears :D but ya, daze could work if not counterpressured properly hmmm

    Just to correct you there, the sigil CD is still 9 secs. So it doesn't matter how often he can swap.

    Im going to be honest and say I dont know how the cleansing sigil cooldown works, since you can have 2 of them for all I know they could have separate cooldowns, but even if they hold same CD you can still juggle 4-5 cleanses with 1-2 cleanses, its really good to supplement long CD on shake it off.