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Legendary Equipment and Templates - [Merged]

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  • @Firebeard.1746 said:

    I'm thinking this as well. If it doesn't come with the expansion, I'm dropping GW2 like a rock. I worked too hard on ascension for them to poop all over me like that. But I think it'd sell well so they'd add it as an expansion feature.

    Yeah, I'll probably keep on like it's coming with the expansion in the meantime, but I won't be paying a dime for the expansion until this feature is in. I'm not gonna accept another WvW alliance situation from Anet at this point. Game's gonna be 9 years old by then, and I've gotten my value out of it. Still hope for more reason to keep playing though.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2021

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    We want to talk a little about our plans for the next update that will affect the suite of templates features, and gather your feedback about what you hope to see from it.

    We’re calling it the Legendary Armory.

    Here’s a quick description of how it will work—when you bind a legendary item to your account, it will be added to the Legendary Armory. Any legendary item that is added to the Legendary Armory will become available for use by all the characters across your entire account at the same time. This removes the need for you to swap legendary equipment between characters through your bank or shared inventory. This feature will also come with updates to Equipment Template functionality to make it easier to copy the configuration of equipped legendary items from one Equipment Template to another template on the same character.

    Here are our goals for the Legendary Armory feature:

    • Make it feel more valuable to earn and use legendary equipment, while also making it easier to use legendary items with the Equipment Template feature.
    • Remove the need for players to swap account-bound legendary items between characters.
    • Make it easier to copy the configuration of equipped legendary items from one Equipment Template tab to another template on the same character.

    Let us know your thoughts in this thread. Thank you all!

    Here's my suggestion on how to approach the Legendary Armory:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    An alternative idea to the Legendary Armory being planned since a few months ago:


    The Armory system

    Instead of designing a whole new system for legendary equipment alone, I'm taking the idea further, and widening the system to cover ascended equipment as well:

    • The Armory is an accountwide unlock system for ascended and legendary equipment, letting you share the same equipment across multiple characters at once, no gear swapping required.
    • Any ascended or legendary equipment piece can be stored inside the Armory. Once stored, it can't be taken out. Stored equipment will appear directly inside the equipment tab, taking no inventory space.
    • Legendary equipment will be stored on its original form, but ascended equipment will be transformed into heirloom rarity (dark red color).
    • Heirloom equipment works exactly as legendary equipment, but stat selection is limited to stats you've previously unlocked.
    • Heirloom armor, weapons, and back items include a new exclusive skin upon unlock, which can only be obtained by using the armory system.
    • Heirloom equipment can be transmuted for free, with no transmutation charge costs.

    Storage process

    • Purchase an Armory Storage Kit from Miyani. Storage kits have 20 uses, and a fixed cost of 20 gold plus 200 transmutation charges.
    • Use your storage kit on the piece of equipment you want to store. The selected piece will permanently disappear from your inventory.
    • If the selected piece was already unlocked (item type + stat), the storage process will fail and the piece will remain in your inventory.
    • The account vault will keep track of your unlock progress in a new section, called Armory Storage.
    • Completing a legendary set will automatically unlock its corresponding heirloom set.
    • Transmutation Charges have been removed from the gem store. Additional charges can now be purchased from Miyani in exchange of Spirit Shards.

    Storage restrictions

    • Ascended back items can't be stored until they've been infused.
    • Ascended rings can't be stored until they've been infused and attuned.
    • Ascended precursors and slumbering legendary trinkets can't be stored until they've been upgraded to their final version.
    • Basic Agony Infusions and Swim-Speed Infusions have been demoted to basic rarity, and cannot be stored.
    • Stored upgrade components can only be socketed into stored equipment.

    Heirloom restrictions

    • One-handed weapons need two separate unlocks before dual wielding is available. Each stat only needs to be stored once.
    • Heirloom runes need six separate unlocks before a full set is available. Each type only needs to be stored once.
    • Heirloom sigils need four separate unlocks before a full set is available. Each type only needs to be stored once.
    • Underwater equipment does not require additional rune and sigil unlocks, and can slot the ones from the ground equipment they're replacing.

    Updates to crafting

    Ascended runes, sigils, and infusions will be introduced through updates to jeweler and scribe:

    Grandmaster Jeweler

    • The maximum rating for the jeweler discipline has been increased to 500. Ascended infusions will be available upon reaching a rating of 500.
    • Ascended infusions have the same stats as rare/exotic infusions, but can be extracted for free.
    • Enrichments and cosmetic infusions can be upgraded to ascended variants through the Mystic Forge, requiring crafted ascended infusions as one of the ingredients.
    • Basic Agony Infusion recipes have been moved from the Artificer into the Jeweler.
    • Jewelers have gained new recipes mirroring the vendor options from INFUZ-5959 and Dive Master Astora.

    Grandmaster Scribe

    • The scribe discipline has been heavily redesigned, and can now be trained outside of guild halls.
    • Mirroring the chef discipline and its nourishment production, scribes can now craft a wide variety of enhancement consumables. Scribes also gain access to common rune and sigil recipes.
    • The maximum rating for the scribe discipline has been increased to 500. Ascended theses, ascended runes, and ascended sigils will be available upon reaching a rating of 500.
    • Ascended runes and sigils have the same stats as exotic runes and sigils, but can be extracted for free.
    • Legendary runes and sigils have been upgraded with a new cosmetic effect.
    • Guild recipes will only be available from Scribing Stations inside guild halls.

    Pros and cons

    • You unlock your ascended items for the whole account, but lose the ability to salvage them once they're no longer useful.
    • You unlock ascended stats for all items of the same type, but lose the ability to swap stats in the Mystic Forge.
    • You gain new armor, weapon, and back item skins, but lose the ability to transfer transmuted pieces between different characters.
    • Since we're working with stat unlocks now, build templates (plus their corresponding chat codes) containing gear information could become possible through the armory system.

    Well, that's my ideal approach for the Armory system, hope you liked it!

    PS: The prices and costs can vary, but I'm confident they shouldn't be monetized through the gem store, since the Armory system would already be tied to the Equipment Template system. The game can always use some good old money sinks as well, and this would be a great opportunity for that.

    Quoten myself from: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/122597/alternatives-to-the-legendary-armory-heirloom-equipment-jeweler-500-and-more/p1

  • TwinFrozr.6214TwinFrozr.6214 Member ✭✭
    edited January 30, 2021

    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    @Voulex.4128 said:
    So please add a system to get a refund for the additional crafted gear and spended pvp/wvw currency, because it will all be totally useless after the system will be implemented. We're talking about multiple thousends of gold that alot of ppl spend to craft legendary stuff for all of their professions.

    I would be amazed if this happened. I requested refund for 7 of my 8 Copper-Feds during shared inventory release, and that was an indisputable no-no.

  • @TwinFrozr.6214 said:
    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    @Voulex.4128 said:
    So please add a system to get a refund for the additional crafted gear and spended pvp/wvw currency, because it will all be totally useless after the system will be implemented. We're talking about multiple thousends of gold that alot of ppl spend to craft legendary stuff for all of their professions.

    I would be amazed if this happened. I requested refund for 7 of my 8 Copper-Feds during shared inventory release, and that was an indisputable no-no.

    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2021

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:
    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    @Voulex.4128 said:
    So please add a system to get a refund for the additional crafted gear and spended pvp/wvw currency, because it will all be totally useless after the system will be implemented. We're talking about multiple thousends of gold that alot of ppl spend to craft legendary stuff for all of their professions.

    I would be amazed if this happened. I requested refund for 7 of my 8 Copper-Feds during shared inventory release, and that was an indisputable no-no.

    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:
    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

  • @Solanum.6983 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:
    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    Not only that arenanet doesn’t have to come up with new ways to get more trinkets. Currently you can only get one copy of vision and aurora.

  • TwinFrozr.6214TwinFrozr.6214 Member ✭✭
    edited January 31, 2021

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2021

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You get the ability yo dual wield legendary daggers someone with 1 dagger most likely wont be able to do. Plus you said it yourself you made it for twice told legend and you still got that title.
    The person making 8 armors will have had the convenience of not having to changed armor with alt through bank for all the years it was in the game until the armory is released when ever that is.
    They made a choice that they wanted the skin or convenience of not having to run to bank to use legendary armor on more characters.

    Same way people who bought multiple copper/silver fed salvageomatics did not get anything when shared inventory slots got into the game.

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You get the ability yo dual wield legendary daggers someone with 1 dagger most likely wont be able to do. Plus you said it yourself you made it for twice told legend and you still got that title.
    The person making 8 armors will have had the convenience of not having to changed armor with alt through bank for all the years it was in the game until the armory is released when ever that is.
    They made a choice that they wanted the skin or convenience of not having to run to bank to use legendary armor on more characters.

    Same way people who bought multiple copper/silver fed salvageomatics did not get anything when shared inventory slots got into the game.

    Sure, that's a pro. And sure, I did it for Twice-Told Legend; a title I get regardless of the legendary wardrobe.

    But okay, this guy has had the armor for all the years, so it's not even worth history. Why not follow the trail and drop precursor crafting into copper price levels? Decrease Realm Avenger from 250,000 to 250 kills? Make all new characters start at level 80 with exotic gear, all skills and full world completion? Who cares about the rest, they already had it for all the years. Everything to everyone is apparently the way to go.

    I personally view this as yet another diminishing return for investing playtime and/or money in Guild Wars 2 (fyi, I've been heavily restrictive with gem purchases since I had to throw away my Copper-Feds). The veterans are yet again punished, so the newbies can get the world served on their shiny little silver plate.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You get the ability yo dual wield legendary daggers someone with 1 dagger most likely wont be able to do. Plus you said it yourself you made it for twice told legend and you still got that title.
    The person making 8 armors will have had the convenience of not having to changed armor with alt through bank for all the years it was in the game until the armory is released when ever that is.
    They made a choice that they wanted the skin or convenience of not having to run to bank to use legendary armor on more characters.

    Same way people who bought multiple copper/silver fed salvageomatics did not get anything when shared inventory slots got into the game.

    Sure, that's a pro. And sure, I did it for Twice-Told Legend; a title I get regardless of the legendary wardrobe.

    But okay, this guy has had the armor for all the years, so it's not even worth history. Why not follow the trail and drop precursor crafting into copper price levels? Decrease Realm Avenger from 250,000 to 250 kills? Make all new characters start at level 80 with exotic gear, all skills and full world completion? Who cares about the rest, they already had it for all the years. Everything to everyone is apparently the way to go.

    I personally view this as yet another diminishing return for investing playtime and/or money in Guild Wars 2 (fyi, I've been heavily restrictive with gem purchases since I had to throw away my Copper-Feds). The veterans are yet again punished, so the newbies can get the world served on their shiny little silver plate.

    I dont see how any of your examples compare to legendary armory its not like they are making the legendary them self easier to attain.
    The only one asking for that is you now sarcasticlly saying precursors should be copper levels to craft as that somehow made your point better.

    If we go the other way maybe they should make the Realm Avenger be per character since that's what you want for legendaries.
    Good luck trying to kill 250.000 times 9.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    That's a valid concern for a few players. Earlier in the thread I suggested the possibility of braking legendary items down to their base ingredients for those that have multiple, but that's just one suggestion.
    I don't see why they should scrap something that would be a huge QoL for a small portion of the playerbase that have multiple of the same legendary items instead of looking at ways to compensate instead.

  • TwinFrozr.6214TwinFrozr.6214 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You get the ability yo dual wield legendary daggers someone with 1 dagger most likely wont be able to do. Plus you said it yourself you made it for twice told legend and you still got that title.
    The person making 8 armors will have had the convenience of not having to changed armor with alt through bank for all the years it was in the game until the armory is released when ever that is.
    They made a choice that they wanted the skin or convenience of not having to run to bank to use legendary armor on more characters.

    Same way people who bought multiple copper/silver fed salvageomatics did not get anything when shared inventory slots got into the game.

    Sure, that's a pro. And sure, I did it for Twice-Told Legend; a title I get regardless of the legendary wardrobe.

    But okay, this guy has had the armor for all the years, so it's not even worth history. Why not follow the trail and drop precursor crafting into copper price levels? Decrease Realm Avenger from 250,000 to 250 kills? Make all new characters start at level 80 with exotic gear, all skills and full world completion? Who cares about the rest, they already had it for all the years. Everything to everyone is apparently the way to go.

    I personally view this as yet another diminishing return for investing playtime and/or money in Guild Wars 2 (fyi, I've been heavily restrictive with gem purchases since I had to throw away my Copper-Feds). The veterans are yet again punished, so the newbies can get the world served on their shiny little silver plate.

    I dont see how any of your examples compare to legendary armory its not like they are making the legendary them self easier to attain.
    The only one asking for that is you now sarcasticlly saying precursors should be copper levels to craft as that somehow made your point better.

    Because you're still focused on obtaining the legendary. The wardrobe isn't about obtaining the legendary. It's about sharing, or copying, the legendary you've already obtained. It's not a question about access to just one legendary. It's one, two, five, ten, perhaps even 71 legendaries. This entirely depends on the number of compatible characters you have.

    I mean, a 1,500-2,000 gold crafting price is a literal giveaway if 71 characters can simultaneously access it.

    If we go the other way maybe they should make the Realm Avenger be per character since that's what you want for legendaries.
    Good luck trying to kill 250.000 times 9.

    Thanks for explaining my thoughts and opinions to me, I seemingly have problems with that myself.

    To remind you from just a few scrolls up, you were the one quoting me to defend the wardrobe as-is (either that, or you lack understanding that >1 unit of effort is more than 1 unit of effort). Just because you want to save thousands of golds by not having to make additional legendaries, doesn't mean I want to raise current cost by 9x per legendary, or that account-wide achievements should be soulbound. I just explained a personal example to protect lower-end market failure, as well as satisfying multiple legendary owners.

    Aside, I never said a word about including Realm Avenger into legendary production. I just took the absurdity in your logic to its edge. All you care for is the legendary usable on all characters as easily as possible. You don't even see the slightest moralic problem with that others have sunk thousands of golds into the same thing before.

  • @Solanum.6983 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    That's a valid concern for a few players. Earlier in the thread I suggested the possibility of braking legendary items down to their base ingredients for those that have multiple, but that's just one suggestion.
    I don't see why they should scrap something that would be a huge QoL for a small portion of the playerbase that have multiple of the same legendary items instead of looking at ways to compensate instead.

    That could be one solution, as long as they keep time tracking, so people don't make new legendaries and break those down as well. Or maybe an exchange for a different legendary? Kinda hard with armors and trinkets for now, maybe we'll get wider choices in the future.

    My worry here is that we won't get everything back. Perhaps 1000g, perhaps something sellable on TP (like Salvaged Excellence), perhaps a title. At least, I hope they're aware of the issue and hear us out somehow.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2021

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:
    I'm not a fan of this, for many reasons:

    • What's the future incitament of ever crafting anything but a single legendary of each type, when you can simply copy around the same equipment for free?
    • What will happen to the interest of the entire sub-legendary market (exotics, ascendeds, etc)?
    • How will it affect your sales of transmutation charges, skins, etc (what is nicer to show off than legendaries, really)?

    Not only have you already made legendary skins freely transmutable, but with this wardrobe, also freely copyable. This will decrease the rarity of legendaries to a level below Basic. What would literally any living organism take; one VW or Ferraris for a lifetime?

    I cannot see the point of trashing the entire legendary rarity, instead of connecting free stat swaps to all lower gear of the same type. Bind a legendary greatsword, and all non-legendary greatswords will acquire free stat swapping.

    I don't think they're going to allow "copies" per se. So, if you have one legendary dagger, you won't get to wield two legendary daggers at once, just one. The goal of this system is to make sharing legendaries across characters easier.

    I would take it even further and include ascended gear in the armory, as per this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/122597/alternatives-to-the-legendary-armory-heirloom-equipment-jeweler-500-and-more/p1

    Also, I have a few legendaries myself, but I don't like their skins so I transmuted them long ago. Personal case, but I'm pretty sure most people do this.

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Voulex.4128 said:
    So please add a system to get a refund for the additional crafted gear and spended pvp/wvw currency, because it will all be totally useless after the system will be implemented. We're talking about multiple thousends of gold that alot of ppl spend to craft legendary stuff for all of their professions.

    I would be amazed if this happened. I requested refund for 7 of my 8 Copper-Feds during shared inventory release, and that was an indisputable no-no.

    That's pretty awful...

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You still need two legendary daggers if you want to dual wield them, so there should be no problem there.

    As for additional duplicates, I think refunds should be in place. Sacrifice the first piece to unlock it in the armory, then sacrifice duplicates of that specific piece to get the materials back. No refunds for non-duplicates with unique skins, even if they're the same type (The Bifrost and Nevermore). Refunds for PvP and WvW armor however, those have no unique skins, so a partial refund (don't get the vendor cost back, just the materials) would be fair.

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    That's a valid concern for a few players. Earlier in the thread I suggested the possibility of braking legendary items down to their base ingredients for those that have multiple, but that's just one suggestion.
    I don't see why they should scrap something that would be a huge QoL for a small portion of the playerbase that have multiple of the same legendary items instead of looking at ways to compensate instead.

    That could be one solution, as long as they keep time tracking, so people don't make new legendaries and break those down as well. Or maybe an exchange for a different legendary? Kinda hard with armors and trinkets for now, maybe we'll get wider choices in the future.

    My worry here is that we won't get everything back. Perhaps 1000g, perhaps something sellable on TP (like Salvaged Excellence), perhaps a title. At least, I hope they're aware of the issue and hear us out somehow.

    A title would be the worst solution ever, I still dread the title they introduced for owning two identical legendaries.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2021

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @TwinFrozr.6214 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    In all reality you are not getting free copies of anything. You still have to grind and spend your hard earned gold to make the legendaries. Not an easy feat for casuals. Not to mention you can swap gear currently between characters. This is just making it easier to swap and making a huge improvement to the template system that really is needed. It’s not like can you play two of your characters at once so really it would just be as if you were sharing your armor. Transmutations are another story, but I’ll let the develepers figure that mess out.

    Not literally; but practically, yes you do.

    On paper, you're free to use the same item on every character of your account. In reality, the purpose is to make you avoid up to 70 additional purchases (if max character slots) of the same gear type. We can move stuff around already, but it's too much work; instead we currently give every character their own unique gear set. That keeps the market alive, raising the interest in level 80 gear exponentially.

    My point here, copying or not, is that legendary sharing will give every single character full access to the very best gear in the game. Once unlocked, 100% for free. Why in the world would anyone ever pick anything else?

    Imagine a Minstrel on an account with maximum characters. It's currently 1,725 gold. Divided by 71 toons, which undeniably will have access the same way as the physical item is actually there; "each" will be worth a whopping 24 gold. Even some exotics are more valuable.

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Not an easy feat for casuals.

    Do you honestly think it has been easy for anybody else? Do you understand what T6 mats and precs used to cost, that we haven't always been able to craft precursors, how much harder gold was to obtain pre-expansions, etc? Why should multiple copies of that suddenly be worthless?

    When we talk achivements like Realm Avenger, which for the vast majority is far more unobtainable than a legendary piece of equipment; then it's suddenly extremely important to preserve players' dedication (devs: "we are not changing the Realm Avenger (“Ultimate Dominator”) achievement requirements or title, as some players have actually obtained it and it’s a bit of a status symbol").

    One may argue that you still have the physical item, but what's the remaining use for it?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Well legendaries cost alot more then ascended so you wont go crafting 7 greatswords 1 for each class that can use it.

    I know people who did (not 7, but multiple). Besides, ascended + skin = legendary. Ascended + my idea of all-rarity wardrobe = definitely legendary (ascendeds also get free rune + stat swapping, once the corresponding legendary has been bound; however you still have to acquire the item physically)

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't see how this "Trashes the legendary rarity" Legendary items still cost a huge amount of gold, time and effort to make. I don't see how making something of great cost more useful could be a bad thing. The whole appeal of legendary items is that you never have to grind/buy another when you unlock them. All this does is make it easier and more convenient then having to bank swap every time you want to play a new character.

    I guess you don't get my point then. Just because you may only have made max. one legendary item of each type, doesn't mean the rest of the game's players also had. Someone here mentioned 8 armor sets, of which at least 5 have to be thrown away in the case of this update. I have made two Incinerators for the title Twice-Told Legend. What about us?

    You get the ability yo dual wield legendary daggers someone with 1 dagger most likely wont be able to do. Plus you said it yourself you made it for twice told legend and you still got that title.
    The person making 8 armors will have had the convenience of not having to changed armor with alt through bank for all the years it was in the game until the armory is released when ever that is.
    They made a choice that they wanted the skin or convenience of not having to run to bank to use legendary armor on more characters.

    Same way people who bought multiple copper/silver fed salvageomatics did not get anything when shared inventory slots got into the game.

    Sure, that's a pro. And sure, I did it for Twice-Told Legend; a title I get regardless of the legendary wardrobe.

    But okay, this guy has had the armor for all the years, so it's not even worth history. Why not follow the trail and drop precursor crafting into copper price levels? Decrease Realm Avenger from 250,000 to 250 kills? Make all new characters start at level 80 with exotic gear, all skills and full world completion? Who cares about the rest, they already had it for all the years. Everything to everyone is apparently the way to go.

    I personally view this as yet another diminishing return for investing playtime and/or money in Guild Wars 2 (fyi, I've been heavily restrictive with gem purchases since I had to throw away my Copper-Feds). The veterans are yet again punished, so the newbies can get the world served on their shiny little silver plate.

    I dont see how any of your examples compare to legendary armory its not like they are making the legendary them self easier to attain.
    The only one asking for that is you now sarcasticlly saying precursors should be copper levels to craft as that somehow made your point better.

    Because you're still focused on obtaining the legendary. The wardrobe isn't about obtaining the legendary. It's about sharing, or copying, the legendary you've already obtained. It's not a question about access to just one legendary. It's one, two, five, ten, perhaps even 71 legendaries. This entirely depends on the number of compatible characters you have.

    I mean, a 1,500-2,000 gold crafting price is a literal giveaway if 71 characters can simultaneously access it.

    If we go the other way maybe they should make the Realm Avenger be per character since that's what you want for legendaries.
    Good luck trying to kill 250.000 times 9.

    Thanks for explaining my thoughts and opinions to me, I seemingly have problems with that myself.

    To remind you from just a few scrolls up, you were the one quoting me to defend the wardrobe as-is (either that, or you lack understanding that >1 unit of effort is more than 1 unit of effort). Just because you want to save thousands of golds by not having to make additional legendaries, doesn't mean I want to raise current cost by 9x per legendary, or that account-wide achievements should be soulbound. I just explained a personal example to protect lower-end market failure, as well as satisfying multiple legendary owners.

    Aside, I never said a word about including Realm Avenger into legendary production. I just took the absurdity in your logic to its edge. All you care for is the legendary usable on all characters as easily as possible. You don't even see the slightest moralic problem with that others have sunk thousands of golds into the same thing before.

    If they wanted to sink thousands of golds into for more sets and the convenience instead of sharing one through bank thats their choice.
    I shared my account bound stuff through bank to avoid this problem copper fed and infinite gathering tools. ( or I might be very frugal with my gold )

    But other bought more of the same and then got salty about shared slots.

    Edit
    As other have said in the thread, I have no problem with people being able to break down their extra and get account bound stuff to craft other stuff with if anet decide to add that.

  • so when is this happening?

  • Skyy.5380Skyy.5380 Member ✭✭

    Hey guys, I didn‘t read throu the whole thread but couldn‘t find something in the search function aswell.
    Are there plans to do legendary infusions? I was thinking about a „holder“ or shell for legendary infusions, which then you could upgrade with „normal“ infusions (including visuals) to unlock their stats.

    Like that I could completely unlock 20 Infusions of a version (f.e. +5 Power/ +9 AR) and swap between those stats.

    Any rumors about that?

  • So you guys ask for our ideas, then silence for over months? lol

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cyst.3108 said:
    So you guys ask for our ideas, then silence for over months? lol

    We can only guess they havent made any/enough progress to speak to us again.
    Its not like it havent happened before with other features like for example wvw alliances.

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @cyst.3108 said:
    So you guys ask for our ideas, then silence for over months? lol

    We can only guess they havent made any/enough progress to speak to us again.
    Its not like it havent happened before with other features like for example wvw alliances.

    I’m hoping they are just being secretive and releasing it as unlockable with the finale of icebrood saga, after delivering a mediocre finale.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @cyst.3108 said:
    So you guys ask for our ideas, then silence for over months? lol

    We can only guess they havent made any/enough progress to speak to us again.
    Its not like it havent happened before with other features like for example wvw alliances.

    I’m hoping they are just being secretive and releasing it as unlockable with the finale of icebrood saga, after delivering a mediocre finale.

    Then watch them gate it behind achiv like volcanic stormcaller weapons =P

  • @cyst.3108 said:
    So you guys ask for our ideas, then silence for over months? lol

    anet is depressingly silent :( as usual.

  • ALmost a year now! When is it happening?