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necro core shroud passive 50% dmg reduciton

Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭

necro core shroud passive 50% dmg reduciton. you nerfed the dmg down so why si this allow to exist? eveyr signel top 2v2 plaeyr plays dobule core nec and its optimal strat on legacy of foefire to cheese with core necs and tempsts. there is 0 interaction in this build, it's impossible to kill because he just wurms out and gets free life force from passives. passives everywhere on that calss theey don't take a single offensive trait. why is this alowed to exist?

Mesmer always finds a way.

<1

Comments

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmg

    Core can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmg

    Core can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

    I have those numbers by my self. Core condi necro can do Extremely dumb condition numbers.
    If you are out of stunbreaks and your stab is transformed in fear, and he gets the fear chain you are lost in condi numbers

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There exist equally strong if not stronger bunker builds on other classes. All you need to do to kill that build is picking berserker amulet. And this won't help you against a bunker that evades and blocks your damage all the time.

  • Moyo.3987Moyo.3987 Member ✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmg

    Core can't condibomb and if you don't take one or two stunbreaks, then you deserve the loss even more.

    I have those numbers by my self. Core condi necro can do Extremely dumb condition numbers.
    If you are out of stunbreaks and your stab is transformed in fear, and he gets the fear chain you are lost in condi numbers

    What about not using ur stability when you see that enemy necro is playing with corrupt boon? Core bunker necro has 2 sources of fear, Staff 5 (high cd) and shroud 3. If you die to this because you facetanked all conditions earlier and you are not using stunbreaks, you just deserve it. Where is the condi bomb on bunker core necro btw?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    necro damage is not the problem, necro CC is not the problem, they are just too tanky.
    If anything necro could use some more reliable CC.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    necro damage is not the problem, necro CC is not the problem, they are just too tanky.
    If anything necro could use some more reliable CC.

    problem is, if you aren't careful and nerf the sustain of a necro, they become free kills.

    They already got nerfed in sustain and before they were basically free kill to most classes.

    All it takes is a big nerf and they get kicked out of 2v2 and 5v5 again.

    They would basically need the kinda evades n stuff other classes have if sustain gets nerfed, plus nerfing life force is a double-edged sword, it hits both offensive and defensive.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    when you start messing with core class mechanics then its the beginning of a slippery slope. instead of doing that, how about we re-buff some damage first.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

    Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

    Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

    Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

    Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

    you don't know what you're talking about.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

    Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

    Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

    Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

    Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

    1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

    A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

    Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

    Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

    you don't know what you're talking about.

    Well gee, when you make a counterargument like that I can't help but agree.

    Is it not a common complaint that Necro is either immortal or a free kill depending on how numbers are balanced? I say, give players a way to play around the life force mechanic and introduce an element of counterplay to Necro's sustain so that, in the event that a Necro is living for a long time, you can point to the players and say "Well why didn't you dodge X? You had bleeding on you yet you let them hit the entire channel of Life Siphon on you?"

    As always, I enjoy these kinds of discussions. If you think this is a bad idea for whatever reason, I'd like to know why.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

    Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

    Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

    1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

    A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

    If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The issue I have is not all passives are bad, and some classes actively depend on such things to survive, unless you can replace said things which are just as strong active mechanics, which is hard since they got a lot of passive traits which would need to be overhauled.

    And on top of that, you cannot compare ele and necro, they just don't play the same. Sure ele has tons of melee range stuff but ele has different tools for different situations.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It exist because there not smart enough to come up with anything else.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

    Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

    Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

    1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

    A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

    If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

    They have stayed consistent. The skil could use s higher CD but not 300s.

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Necro should build life force off of skills and not auto attacks. Why does Axe 1 passively generate lifeforce? Why not make Axe 2 generate life force and generate additional life force at high vuln stacks?

    Dagger 2 literally saps life from its target. It could be changed to sap life force in addition to hp if the target is bleeding. Give players a way to interact with this mechanic and it will feel less like the necro is able to live for an eternity while literally afk.

    Also why did Unholy Sanctuary avoid the 300 sec CD nerf bat? I'm curious to hear Anet's reasoning on this one. Is it really that much weaker than Lesser Arcane Shield?

    you don't know what you're talking about.

    Well gee, when you make a counterargument like that I can't help but agree.

    Is it not a common complaint that Necro is either immortal or a free kill depending on how numbers are balanced? I say, give players a way to play around the life force mechanic and introduce an element of counterplay to Necro's sustain so that, in the event that a Necro is living for a long time, you can point to the players and say "Well why didn't you dodge X? You had bleeding on you yet you let them hit the entire channel of Life Siphon on you?"

    As always, I enjoy these kinds of discussions. If you think this is a bad idea for whatever reason, I'd like to know why.

    They said you have no idea what you are talking about because axe 1 generated no LF at all.

    Plus all the classes than generate a resource can do so with an auto attack and it's not passive.

    Also most LF does come from skills. It's just for some reason people ignore them. At the start of the game you would see people, in this forum, saying to avoid skills X/Y/Z to deny LF , not powering into SA or SW to deny LF..etc but you don't see that anymore.

    The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    necro damage is not the problem, necro CC is not the problem, they are just too tanky.
    If anything necro could use some more reliable CC.

    problem is, if you aren't careful and nerf the sustain of a necro, they become free kills.

    They already got nerfed in sustain and before they were basically free kill to most classes.

    All it takes is a big nerf and they get kicked out of 2v2 and 5v5 again.

    They would basically need the kinda evades n stuff other classes have if sustain gets nerfed, plus nerfing life force is a double-edged sword, it hits both offensive and defensive.

    I know, for all its worth necro mechanic is by far the most toxic I have seen in any game.
    Its always going to be broken or garbage, its how raw HP works in games.
    They gotta rework shroud I think
    MB make % of damage in shroud go through to HP but give them some extras.
    Some skills should eat nerfs but be cast faster, necro never runs out of skills to use, constant 3/4s cast on everything, its boring and has no combos whatsoever.
    IT needs to lose alot of the passives, every mark gives lifeforce without even landing, passive signets passive ticks passive aoue around pulsing aoe, its all kitten design. all of it.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    Unholy sanctuary has some healing in it while in shroud if life force is above threshhold.

    Doesn't this add value to the trait and make the 10x difference in cooldown between UH and LAS make even less sense

    Arcane shield is a block that can explode and a breakstun.

    1 has 30 sec cd the other has 40 sec cd two different things, and 300 seconds is nuts, its waaaay too huge, its a massive nerf.

    A 300 sec on a sustain that cannot avoid dmg and have to eat is nuts and it would make unholy sanctuary completely unviable.

    If i'm not mistaken, making these passive life saving traits unviable was the point. Lesser Arcane shield already had stiff competition from the other traits on it's row pre-nerf. Now, with the CD increase, it's so weak that it's not worth taking. Anet did this by design so these traits would not muddy things up when determining how the sweeping changes would effect the overall time to kill. Anet should either stay consistent on this or get rid of the rediculous 300cd on these traits to begin with. `

    They have stayed consistent. The skil could use s higher CD but not 300s.

    They said you have no idea what you are talking about because axe 1 generated no LF at all.

    Plus all the classes than generate a resource can do so with an auto attack and it's not passive.

    Also most LF does come from skills. It's just for some reason people ignore them. At the start of the game you would see people, in this forum, saying to avoid skills X/Y/Z to deny LF , not powering into SA or SW to deny LF..etc but you don't see that anymore.

    The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

    ty for the clarification. At one point I ended up playing necro for the sake of learning what the class did and and thought that axe 1 was my lf generator. Would explain why I never had any life force ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

    why is everyone pointing at blood magic?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow. I never even knew they got a dmg reduction in shroud. Better late than never I guess...

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Wow. I never even knew they got a dmg reduction in shroud. Better late than never I guess...

    most people dont :D, it reduces both power and condi damage.
    I dont even think its mentioned anywhere other then wiki, the only reason I know becouse i am autistic and google kitten like that lol
    Fun fact, if you get hit for 5k, it shows as 5k in the log but you lost 2,5k shroud. so its understandable that most people dont know about it.
    It should be mentioned.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Wow. I never even knew they got a dmg reduction in shroud. Better late than never I guess...

    most people dont :D, it reduces both power and condi damage.
    I dont even think its mentioned anywhere other then wiki, the only reason I know becouse i am autistic and google kitten like that lol
    Fun fact, if you get hit for 5k, it shows as 5k in the log but you lost 2,5k shroud. so its understandable that most people dont know about it.
    It should be mentioned.

    The damage log is not a representation of the actual damage done?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Wow. I never even knew they got a dmg reduction in shroud. Better late than never I guess...

    most people dont :D, it reduces both power and condi damage.
    I dont even think its mentioned anywhere other then wiki, the only reason I know becouse i am autistic and google kitten like that lol
    Fun fact, if you get hit for 5k, it shows as 5k in the log but you lost 2,5k shroud. so its understandable that most people dont know about it.
    It should be mentioned.

    The damage log is not a representation of the actual damage done?

    Necromancer shroud is the only exception that I know of, might be more. Some old friends might chim in if they know any.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    The only thing that needs looking at on necro is blood magic at the moment.

    why is everyone pointing at blood magic?

    Bc it's way to strong in 2v2

  • They dumbed down core necro with last changes. Nerf Life Force regen and give back FitG. No questions asked.

    CHEEKYLA

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yea, Lich form does no dmg at all. And, since they are not killable, they play overtime, in where they have huge advantage: no heals but can have shroud. Its still kitten af after the nerf.

  • Moyo.3987Moyo.3987 Member ✭✭

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yea, Lich form does no dmg at all. And, since they are not killable, they play overtime, in where they have huge advantage: no heals but can have shroud. Its still kitten af after the nerf.

    Lich is doing about 2.5k +/-500 dmg if you play carrion and defensive amulet. LoS or condi damage is enough as counter for this 150s Elite. Imagine why no one is using Lich in ATs? You have several counterplay options vs bunker core necro if you learn how to fight them.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Best way to learn how to play and counter necromancer:

    Step 1: Create a necromancer
    Step 2: Look up a build or ask someone on core.
    step 3: Go pvp and practice with it.

    Shroud is necromancers strongest defense. The nerfing of it and gutting will kill necromancers offensively and defensively.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Best way to learn how to play and counter necromancer:

    Step 1: Create a necromancer
    Step 2: Look up a build or ask someone on core.
    step 3: Go pvp and practice with it.

    Shroud is necromancers strongest defense. The nerfing of it and gutting will kill necromancers offensively and defensively.

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Best way to learn how to play and counter necromancer:

    Step 1: Create a necromancer
    Step 2: Look up a build or ask someone on core.
    step 3: Go pvp and practice with it.

    Shroud is necromancers strongest defense. The nerfing of it and gutting will kill necromancers offensively and defensively.

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    IF so why not make suggestions to improve rather than flat out gut? Cutting necro more in defensive will just flat out make it unviable for SPVP.

    Killing its defensive is a bad idea.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Best way to learn how to play and counter necromancer:

    Step 1: Create a necromancer
    Step 2: Look up a build or ask someone on core.
    step 3: Go pvp and practice with it.

    Shroud is necromancers strongest defense. The nerfing of it and gutting will kill necromancers offensively and defensively.

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    IF so why not make suggestions to improve rather than flat out gut?

    I did, even quoted you.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Best way to learn how to play and counter necromancer:

    Step 1: Create a necromancer
    Step 2: Look up a build or ask someone on core.
    step 3: Go pvp and practice with it.

    Shroud is necromancers strongest defense. The nerfing of it and gutting will kill necromancers offensively and defensively.

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    IF so why not make suggestions to improve rather than flat out gut?

    I did, even quoted you.

    What we need then is a separation of defensive and offensive, because doing what Flandre says woul.d kill necro offensively and defensively and make them unviable in all PVP formats.

    Necro could use some changes to life force probably, but Its a fat chance in hell that we will get the kinda overhaul and it will probably just be a flat nerf into unviability and punching bag territory where it won't be seen in plat2 or up anymore.

    So many things need to be changed like: Staff boon corruption atm could see some minor tweaks in improvements warhorn has the stuff to improve dagger.

    Then there is dealing with death magic after these nerfs, which I'm not sure if it is or not viable, but for condi necro and power we need to remain in similar level of difficulty to kill, or we die too soon and face the problem of needing to be babysat 24/7 which is why I'm so harsh against nerf threads for the necro because necro lives on a fine line of inviability and overpowered state.

    The problem is also I don't know if those who complain are talking about 2v2 which is supposedly not the main mode and 5v5 and balancing 2v2 and 5v5 is a tough thing.

    If you nerf necro for 2v2 you might make them free kills in all mode.

    Remember the effects of nerfs for scourge for WVW hitting pve really hard? yeah, I do.

    They seriously need playtesters to fix this annoyance of people Q_Q and decide: Are they gonna nerf anything cried about? or are they going to actually playtest and decide what should stay and go? This goes back to the whole thing with warlocks in WOW.

    They nerfed resto warlocks who were Destro locks and made them for a year or so really easy free kills and nerfed the sustain because of QQ but couldn't decide what they wanted, then locks complained because they got the bad end of the stick as usual. Warlocks btw were complaining too that destro locks were boring to play just as loudly as others were complaining that warlocks were immortal. Warlocks you see(Resto locks) had almost no damage but were practically invincible and standing around while people walked around them trying to kill everything else.

    Warlocks wanted their sustain cut but mobility returned, and damage returned, and people wanted their sustain cut. The problem I have is Its hard to actually tell who has an agenda and just wants said class nerfed at times so they can win easy. I get the feeling the guy who made this thread doesn't really want a challenge, but I could be wrong, and this really leaves ANET with an issue: Who do you really listen to? everyone? or just a few people? I know that most of the time dadnir is looking out for necro and zdragon, but others i'm not putting it against them to complain about something and ask for nerfs because its annoying or they can't win.

    Look at some of the nerf threads for mesmer, you prob have faced people who genuinely wanted specs gutted like mirage complaining about evades, and you prob told them that it was a bad idea to nerf so and so and class would prob need an overhaul to keep them viable if you nerf said thing.

    It really doesn't help either the fact necros are supposed to be tanky with little to no mobility and ports and they got little to no ports and mobility few cc and only 2 evades from stamina bar. I seriously don't know if anet can get over their stubborness of certain things about necro and decide to make actual changes, maybe if everyone in the game screamed overhaul necro over and over and ask for changes to make separation of sustain and offensive tools without killing them, and even then they would probably mess it up or not do it.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Moyo.3987 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Moyo.3987 said:
    You complain about Core Necros with 3 defensive traitlines dealing 0 dmg and having 0 stability. There are only 2 ppl in top20 atm which played MOSTLY core necro. 5+ ppl are playing reaper (its better in this meta) and 1 scourge. If you lose to full bunker punching ball core necro, maybe you deserve it :)

    Yea, Lich form does no dmg at all. And, since they are not killable, they play overtime, in where they have huge advantage: no heals but can have shroud. Its still kitten af after the nerf.

    Lich is doing about 2.5k +/-500 dmg if you play carrion and defensive amulet. LoS or condi damage is enough as counter for this 150s Elite. Imagine why no one is using Lich in ATs? You have several counterplay options vs bunker core necro if you learn how to fight them.

    I was apparently talking about the 2v2, where a little bit competent players would use it when opponents burned some defensive CD. Note that it kitten hits 2-5k, ranged, and very fast attach speed. Eating 2 hits already puts you in a huge disadvantage. Moreover, in 2v2, the annoying thing is its messing power and fear, while the other one deal dmg.

    But w/e, keep defending this braindead class. Who cares. At least the devs dont care.

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    It really amazing that players are defending this class. Amazing.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why is everyone pointing at blood magic?

    Bc it's way to strong in 2v2

    what about it tho? the res stuff?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Crozame.4098 said:
    It really amazing that players are defending this class. Amazing.

    It's not so amazing people who truly love their class defend it and try to get it improved.

    People with an agenda try to get it gutted because it's too hard/its annoying.

    It would also be better if we had more honest people out there who weren't out there just to gut a class they don't want to learn to fight or have an agenda because they hate such and such class.

    There are necros who want changes but they want it in the right way because ultimately it hurts their experiences if it gets changed for the worse and ruins their fun.

    If for instance, I'm playing druid see it gutted, I, of course, get mad and complain on the forums about it being nerfed. If it's a flat nerf no I won't accept it and nor will a lot of necros, because of anger towards "our spec" being turned into a free kill.

    There is anger and outrage because for years necro was free kill and finally its viable and some want it to go back to where it's useless without a group and easily killed.

    If its a overhaul to improve the class nerfing it some places buffing it others so the game is overall better? Sure that's great.

    If you want to discuss why necro is problematic and why it is on the fine line of overpowered underpowered and ask for overhaul so it can perform well without being perceived as op? yes pls, but if its just necro OP nerf all please make it easy kill then no, I don't think anyone should listen to anyone proposing any idea like that about any class, because it's preposterous and incredibly selfish. Reason people criticize mr flandre is because he sounds like he doesn't know the class or understand, and he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.

    If you talk to the main rangers players trevor boyer for instance and some others they can tell you what needs overhauled because they understand it, and people who really play ranger will understand it better than someone who doesn't, and some won't have the care or passion on what goes on besides the chances they want nerf said thing take it away. Take for instance nerf of rangers maul for instance: To me, 10k is fine for a melee attack that has to be buffed to do that. IF warr/ele/Mes/thief has similar? that's fine because they still need to deal enough damage to kill someone through their sustain, and even if you nerf necros sustain you still have to deal with other people's sustain such as guardians and warrior dealing enough to kill. 16k, however, is not ok and is out of line I think.

    There needs a deeper analysis of how necro works than just kneejerk nerf this or that because many times ANet has missed the mark. It's not the first time they nerfed the wrong thing and nerfed it too hard leaving the class still op but weak in one area more than they should. Also even if a person is at ranked and good, I wouldn't put it against human nature because yes there are sociopaths out there who look out for their own interests and don't care about how it affects others, which is why until I see a video and see deep analysis, I think this can be ignored. As I said, you can miss something in interaction with a class, for instance when I was facing herald rev I didn't know what I was seeing because I saw a bunch of flashing colors and it all happened fast and some stuff had very little flashy effects. If you actually know what you are looking at, like when I described attacks from reaper and core, then you can say at least this person is describing a said thing,

    If you want to nerf necro at least make sure it doesn't kill necro completely off and make it free kills, i mean its bad enough they lost sustain.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hotte in space.2158 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    IF so why not make suggestions to improve rather than flat out gut?

    today he says

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    yesterday it was

    I had 90% winrate with necro, up to about 1520 ranking. you can try that. brainless easy.

    what will it be tomorrow ? gold 3 with 100% winrate ?
    nobody knows

    I lied about plat 2, I ment plat 1 about 1570 untill I started playing mesmer again did not reach plat 2 with necro.
    I stared with 100% winrate first 8 games, then lost 1 for every couple of wins untill i got bored and quit, then came back to kitten aroud with mesmer and dropped to gold3/plat1
    If you think about it
    -> I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.
    and
    -> I had 90% winrate with necro, up to about 1520 ranking. you can try that. brainless easy.
    can both be true at the same time.
    I cant give you exact numbers becouse I was kitten around with scrapper and trust me I have no clue how it works.

  • Brimstone Jack.3462Brimstone Jack.3462 Member ✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    If this is true, that just means that the top 20% of players on your tier just had no problem killing you. Necro has easy hard counters, can be kited and CC'd into oblivion, and bad players make mistakes either way. You just won't be one-shotting necros with meme power builds again any time soon.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why is everyone pointing at blood magic?

    Bc it's way to strong in 2v2

    what about it tho? the res stuff?

    Yeah, altough the lifesteal and protection are also pretty strong (lifesteal just needs a lil tuning down and the protection duration reduced)

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    If this is true, that just means that the top 20% of players on your tier just had no problem killing you. Necro has easy hard counters, can be kited and CC'd into oblivion, and bad players make mistakes either way. You just won't be one-shotting necros with meme power builds again any time soon.

    If you think necro is in an ok state right now you are honestly delusional

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:
    It really amazing that players are defending this class. Amazing.

    It's not so amazing people who truly love their class defend it and try to get it improved.

    People with an agenda try to get it gutted because it's too hard/its annoying.

    It would also be better if we had more honest people out there who weren't out there just to gut a class they don't want to learn to fight or have an agenda because they hate such and such class.

    There are necros who want changes but they want it in the right way because ultimately it hurts their experiences if it gets changed for the worse and ruins their fun.

    If for instance, I'm playing druid see it gutted, I, of course, get mad and complain on the forums about it being nerfed. If it's a flat nerf no I won't accept it and nor will a lot of necros, because of anger towards "our spec" being turned into a free kill.

    There is anger and outrage because for years necro was free kill and finally its viable and some want it to go back to where it's useless without a group and easily killed.

    If its a overhaul to improve the class nerfing it some places buffing it others so the game is overall better? Sure that's great.

    If you want to discuss why necro is problematic and why it is on the fine line of overpowered underpowered and ask for overhaul so it can perform well without being perceived as op? yes pls, but if its just necro OP nerf all please make it easy kill then no, I don't think anyone should listen to anyone proposing any idea like that about any class, because it's preposterous and incredibly selfish. Reason people criticize mr flandre is because he sounds like he doesn't know the class or understand, and he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.

    If you talk to the main rangers players trevor boyer for instance and some others they can tell you what needs overhauled because they understand it, and people who really play ranger will understand it better than someone who doesn't, and some won't have the care or passion on what goes on besides the chances they want nerf said thing take it away. Take for instance nerf of rangers maul for instance: To me, 10k is fine for a melee attack that has to be buffed to do that. IF warr/ele/Mes/thief has similar? that's fine because they still need to deal enough damage to kill someone through their sustain, and even if you nerf necros sustain you still have to deal with other people's sustain such as guardians and warrior dealing enough to kill. 16k, however, is not ok and is out of line I think.

    There needs a deeper analysis of how necro works than just kneejerk nerf this or that because many times ANet has missed the mark. It's not the first time they nerfed the wrong thing and nerfed it too hard leaving the class still op but weak in one area more than they should. Also even if a person is at ranked and good, I wouldn't put it against human nature because yes there are sociopaths out there who look out for their own interests and don't care about how it affects others, which is why until I see a video and see deep analysis, I think this can be ignored. As I said, you can miss something in interaction with a class, for instance when I was facing herald rev I didn't know what I was seeing because I saw a bunch of flashing colors and it all happened fast and some stuff had very little flashy effects. If you actually know what you are looking at, like when I described attacks from reaper and core, then you can say at least this person is describing a said thing,

    If you want to nerf necro at least make sure it doesn't kill necro completely off and make it free kills, i mean its bad enough they lost sustain.

    Well said^ one issue I people usually think like this when it's their class being qq's about then turn around and attack other classes in same manner ur describing. Not saying u do.
    Necro definitely needs its sustain lowered so its shroud isnt the annoying oh u out played me well have fun trying to kill me for 2 mins while I go back and forth through shroud carry mechanic that it is now lol. Whatever buffs need to come to it to allow for this to be nerfed I'm on board :)

  • @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    If this is true, that just means that the top 20% of players on your tier just had no problem killing you. Necro has easy hard counters, can be kited and CC'd into oblivion, and bad players make mistakes either way. You just won't be one-shotting necros with meme power builds again any time soon.

    If you think necro is in an ok state right now you are honestly delusional

    Name-calling is entirely unnecessary.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Yeah the condi bomb with fear and torment deals zero dmg
    @Avatar.3568 said:
    I have those numbers by my self. Core condi necro can do Extremely dumb condition numbers.
    If you are out of stunbreaks and your stab is transformed in fear, and he gets the fear chain you are lost in condi numbers

    Gonna point out that Tainted Shackles is only 8 stacks of torment if all 4 pulses hit. Terror is about 1k per tick. Nothing to scoff at for sure, but I'm not sure I'd call it a condi bomb. If you got hit by more than that it was probably from condis on the Necro being transferred with Putrid Mark or Plague Sending.

    Only really condi bomb from Core Condi is the last few ticks of Plaguelands.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I lied about plat 2, I ment plat 1 about 1570 untill I started playing mesmer again did not reach plat 2 with necro.
    I stared with 100% winrate first 8 games, then lost 1 for every couple of wins untill i got bored and quit, then came back to kitten aroud with mesmer and dropped to gold3/plat1
    If you think about it
    -> I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.
    and
    -> I had 90% winrate with necro, up to about 1520 ranking. you can try that. brainless easy.
    can both be true at the same time.
    I cant give you exact numbers becouse I was kitten around with scrapper and trust me I have no clue how it works.

    A sincere answer, I respect that and I believe you. Everythings fine^^
    But you must admit, that

    80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring

    sounds a bit weird =)

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @hotte in space.2158 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    IF so why not make suggestions to improve rather than flat out gut?

    today he says

    I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.

    yesterday it was

    I had 90% winrate with necro, up to about 1520 ranking. you can try that. brainless easy.

    what will it be tomorrow ? gold 3 with 100% winrate ?
    nobody knows

    I lied about plat 2, I ment plat 1 about 1570 untill I started playing mesmer again did not reach plat 2 with necro.
    I stared with 100% winrate first 8 games, then lost 1 for every couple of wins untill i got bored and quit, then came back to kitten aroud with mesmer and dropped to gold3/plat1
    If you think about it
    -> I did, reached plat 2 soloq with 80% winrate and quit the game becouse it was boring.
    and
    -> I had 90% winrate with necro, up to about 1520 ranking. you can try that. brainless easy.
    can both be true at the same time.
    I cant give you exact numbers becouse I was kitten around with scrapper and trust me I have no clue how it works.

    Hey, we are in GW2, everybody know that the profession you play in sPvP isn't what decide your winrate. What decide your winrate is whether your teams and the opposite teams actually play the game and whether your teammates are competent.

    The profession you play could be overpowered you wouldn't be able to cope with 1-2 afk players when your opponents' team is full. You had a winning streak on the necromancer, sure. You got lucky, nothing more.

    But if you want to think that your carrying yourself 1v5 without teammate with a necromancer because the profession is "OP"... Well, you're free to believe what you want...