Returning Player's Feedback on State of Revenant — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Returning Player's Feedback on State of Revenant

Hi All. Returning player here. Haven't played in many years but found the game fun and started again. Was going to post on another thread but my response became too long so decided to create a thread. First post so go easy on me. Anyway, been playing Rev consistently for some months now and just wanted to lay out my thoughts. Most of this will be from a PvP/WvW perspective, but there are some unifying themes that I think need to be addressed. I'll document them in sections. Super short and small TL;DR at the end.

When just thinking of the patch overall from a Rev perspective, there are a few things that stick out in my mind: the reduction of damage on CC's (which I think ANet reduced all CC to basically 0 as a testing phase and will increase damage now that they have full server data), removal of Empty Vessel, over nerf of Shiro, and the decaying situation of the energy system. While those are specific points, I'd like to generalize my feedback in to sections and I'll start with weapons.

Weapons

Overall, I think Rev's weapons are so-so. After reading the Rev section of the forums, there seems to be some common issues that keep popping up. I'd have to agree with a lot of them:

  • sword 5 Deathstrike has an awkward animation for the 2nd strike. This should be cleaned up.
  • Sword 2 change was for the better. This feels much more crisp and gives a theme for the ability.
  • Staff 5 - enough has been said about this change since patch. So awkward to use and it's mainly used for evade frames and rez displacement. This should be a candidate for a damage buff on a CC skill.
  • IMO, Hammer is in an OK spot. in PvE, it has no place in raids but is a good open world zerg mob weapon. No use in sPvP but usable in WvW (probably what it was designed for). But as others have said, Hammer 2 is so buggy, it doesn't warrant a 10 sec CD. I think CD should be 6-8 secs (can slightly lessen damage if needed) until it's reworked. Hammer 5 needs some damage back as well. I would rather have huge damage from this ability than CC because in WvW, stab is still almost perma in zergs. So just add some damage back to this and it should be good.
  • I think Mace and Axe are fine atm, which probably contributes to the popularity of Condi Rev in PvP as well. Mace 3 could benefit from Quickness as I've read somewhere on here as well.
  • Shield is just OK. Shield 4 needs a projectile speed increase and we should be able to move with shield 5. The ability concepts are fine, just need to work on the small things.
  • Lastly, Rev simply doesn't have enough weapon options. I think it needs another ranged option and a main hand baseline. Just throwing out ideas, but I think shortbow should become baseline and Dagger/Axe could be Renegade weapon. It may not fit with lore, but one of those could fit the hybrid damage/bleeds theme of Renegade and give the one not used for Kalla as a baseline weapon. I'm just tired of having 2.5 options for main hand damage weapons for most content (Sword, Mace, and Shorbow which =.5. The rest are a pseudo support (Staff) and WvW focused (Hammer))

Specializations

Lots of the changes have been well documented, but have some additional thoughts I'd like to add. I'll recap the discussions alot of you are already having.

  • Devastation line will be fine when battle scar numbers are adjusted. The grandmaster line is actually super good (after Battle Scar numbers change) Someone pointed out (I think @Yasai.3549 ) that adept line in Devastation is actually really weak compared to other professions, which I will agree as they are lackluster but would be hard to balance with more buffs. One thing about battle scars for PvP is it also needs a slight coefficient buff, not just the base damage/heal numbers.
  • Corruption is great. It's meta in PvP, versatile, and fun - what every specialization should be. The best thing I love about Corruption now is that it can be talented in to without using Mallyx. Recently had a 1v1 match up in WvW and noticed the the Herald I fought went Devastation, Corruption, Herald. Talents were Acolyte of Torment, Abyssal Chill, and, Diabolic Inferno. So while he had all Berserker gear, he was doing lots of tick damage through Corruption - the legend swap does torment, burning and poison, each time he chills was torment too. Great specialization and fun theorycrafting here.
  • Retribution is OK. Nothing special here. Been using the Weakness talents with Steadfast to be more tanky. I think Eye for an Eye needs to remove the ICD or decrease it. The retaliation traits seems average at best as I haven't got a lot of use out of them yet.
  • Invocation - this is the jack of all trades line for Revs and it's stayed that way. Most of things you want for Rev are in this line and it hasn't changed - except removal of Empty Vessel. Personally, I think this is a great change because it makes not taking Invocation less punishing; I hated always having to run Invocation in PvP because of that stun break. Now that it's removed, ANet can buff/nerf other areas to compensate for no cheap stun break. Simply put, that talent was too strong that it had to be removed - Revs just haven't been compensated yet.
  • Salvation - I'm pretty passionate about this line as I like to run this alot. Other than the orb talents, it is pretty good and could be great with some small changes: I wish ANet would change the Serene Rejuvenation Grandmaster minor so you don't have to use Centaur to benefit from the Alacrity. They could say something like "using an elite skill or Natural Harmony will give Alacrity" so you can be flexible with which legend you use for this. About healing orbs, I think the easiest thing they could do is add in 1- 2 secs of Regeneration instead of the orb as this simply the mechanic and give Regeneration in the healing specialization line. Something like a combination of Guardian Mace 2 (Symbol of Faith) and the healing roll in Honor line (Selfless Daring). The way I see it possibly working is that instead of spawning a healing orb, it grants Regeneration at the end of your dodge roll in a small AoE; or make a symbol like AoE that grants Regeneration (like Guardian Mace 2). This can also be applied to Staff 4 - if it removes conditions, it grants Regeneration duration by amount of conditions it removes. The challenge with Regeneration however, is how you integrate Vital Blessing (Vigor on Healing Orb pick up). I like the idea of this talent so it should be kept, But you could perma vigor your team with Herald Face of Light if vigor is granted on Regeneration gain. So think Vital Blessing should only work on Dodge Rolls (grant vigor in an area at the end of your dodge roll). Finally for PvP/WvW - I think Resilient Spirit numbers should be increased a little. Barrier is fun to use but doesn't feel as impac~~~~tful as it did prior to patch. I may be a little biased here as this is a fav talent of mine, but just the base barrier and the coefficient should be increased slightly.
  • Both Herald and Renegade lines I think are pretty good. Can be touched up based on numbers but I use all of them frequently, even in PvP based on the situation. Love protection talent on Kalla. Elder's Respite on Herald is underrated in Condi meta and would be even better with the Regeneration change I suggested to healing orbs. Going back to Retribution Eye for an Eye for an example, Bold Reversal on Kalla has a 5 sec ICD on stun break. While it doesn't have protection, EfaE is just too long for an ICD.

Legend Utilities

The one thing that drew me to Rev when I returned was the legend swapping and the combos and synergies that could come with it. While sometimes it feels more limiting that rewarding, I think it's mainly tied to the energy system instead of the flexibility of having 2 utility sets. I won't talk about specific energy amounts but mainly when decreases/increases are needed.

  • Shiro - The concept of Shiro is great and I think it works like it should. As some have mentioned, overloading the utilities creates high energy costs so maybe reducing the functions of the utilities and decreasing energy costs will be more functional.
  • Mallyx - great after the patch. The PvP varieties got energy nerfs which IMO aren't fully warranted. Can slightly reduce functions if needed to decrease costs again. I like having a toggle Elite legendary here for the Dark combo field. Enjoy all the chill to the theme now as I've used Ice Runes in PvP for some success as well. Great legend set.
  • Dwarf - I'm becoming more of a fan of it - besides the elite. RotGD energy cost is way to high by istelf and it's the stun break which makes it more punishing. Overall, I think this is my favorite theme for a legend and synergies well with a "defensive set", it's just that darn energy cost of RotGD.
  • Ventari - high risk/high reward healing mechanic. Tablet can be somewhat clunky to use, but it can be great when used correctly. When paired with Salvation, I use the heal to give Alacrity to Rams and Catas in PvP which is a decent niche utility. The projectile barriers help when sieging too. I read the comments about the no stun break in Ventari and I'm finally on the board of it needs one. I would tie it to the elite legendary so that when it's used, it removes the tablet giving some form of counterplay. Just keep the energy cost at 10 :)
  • Glint - pretty straight foward and great group buffs. Utility costs are manageable and CD's I think are OK. The Stun break may need a slight CD reduction but it doesn't have too. Using it offensively is a classic opportunity cost decision so it works out. Not sure if it's buggy or tricky to use but I feel Chaotic Release doesn't hit enemy heroes properly sometimes and doesn't give superspeed to allies sometimes either. Maybe it's just me. I've also read the Infuse Light discussions about it being too strong and I'll say that I'm fine with it how it is. Not because I play Rev alot now, but I think that melee oriented professions need a "get out of jail free" card somewhere in there kit. Guardian and Warrior have it so I think it's fitting Rev has one too. CD can be compensated if it's really an issue.
  • Kalla - Don't have alot of feedback on this one. I think the energy costs and concepts of the skill are fine. I just hate losing the NPC to random AoE damage.

Energy System

I'm new to the energy system with Rev within the past few months. So hopefully I can provide a fresh perspective on it. Overall, it's become more of a hindrance than an asset for Revs. It feels restrictive instead of rewarding, promotes staying above your stun break energy cost in PvP, and encourages combat camping to regen energy (without the escapes of a thief). A lot of this grief is from the removal of Empty Vessel as it was a 10 sec stun break CD and was very efficient. But now it feels like I'm being punished for using my utilities and weapon skills for fighting instead of always having enough energy for the stun break. I understand the "the best players adapt" mindset, but to me, it's just not fun having these limitations. So here's just a general list of where the energy system can go:

  • No more energy costs on weapon skills, just on utilities. Have any of you played the new Steel and Fire mission as a Rev when you get to use Ryland's sword? It's amazing! You don't have any energy costs on the sword abilities and use it just for the utilities. Absolutely fun and rewarding. Flying around with Shiro is so cool. Of course, for competitive purposes this would have to be balanced, but IMO, this is the way to go - no more energy on weapon uses.
  • Increase legend swap value to 75-100 and rework Charged Mists to compensate. This will work for PvP where energy costs are inflated but Raid DPS in PvE will increase for sure.
  • Reduced energy costs in PvP and remove function if needed.
  • Add a small energy cost gain on weapon swap - This could add to our tools for dealing with energy shortages and would give us 2 sources (3 for core Rev) for burst increases of energy.
  • @Scoobaniec.9561 had a great idea for an energy system with starting at 100 energy and no CDs on swap or energy on weapons but no burst energy on legend swap. I'd love to see a test phase for this. This sounds awesome.

There's many more to be discussed, but these are some thoughts I had or liked. Either way, Something needs to be done to the energy system.

In conclusion, I've enjoyed playing Revenant in my return to Guild Wars 2 from a very long hiatus. After playing Guardian primarily for a couple years, I needed a new challenge and I felt Rev was the profession that appealed to me the most. The faster pace and legend swapping seemed great on paper, but after diving in to it hardcore for the last few months, I'm beginning to feel like it has a lot of issues that need to be addressed. I know there is a lot of discussion on the forums about the problems with Revs and I probably hit a lot of them, but I just wanted to document my thoughts so maybe Anet reads this from a fresh players perspective and hopefully brings some constructive feedback.

Thanks for your time.

TL:DR - returning player after a few years started playing Rev. Had fun at start but now realizing a lot of the issues that pop up in forum discussions. Most know what the issues are. Leaving pseudo "new player" feedback as a point of discussion or something for Anet to look at.

Comments

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Friend, you got a good idea on rev and I would stand behind most of your ideas. Maybe I can add that weapons should be like trident, changing based on the legend. With that our need for more weapons would drastically reduce.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    u forgot axe 4, which always kicks me off every platform ^^
    sometimes u stop inside the enemy, sometimes u r 10m behind it

    and imo charged mists should always give +25 energy after legend swap. Cuz imagine u have a tiny skill lag, if u have just 1% more energy through that, the trait could have been wasted

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jaykay.9641 said:
    Hammer is in an OK spot. in PvE, it has no place in raids but is a good open world zerg mob weapon. No use in sPvP but usable in WvW (probably what it was designed for). But as others have said, Hammer 2 is so buggy, it doesn't warrant a 10 sec CD. I think CD should be 6-8 secs (can slightly lessen damage if needed) until it's reworked. Hammer 5 needs some damage back as well. I would rather have huge damage from this ability than CC because in WvW, stab is still almost perma in zergs. So just add some damage back to this and it should be good.

    >

    I think Hammer is fantastic for OW PvE use, as with normal damage and cooldowns, it puts out quite a bit of AoE damage. The problem though, is if you're running Glint/Shiro, we still have the same problems with Power Rev not having access to decent condi clear. Not a problem for Core maps, even Orr, but once you're in HoT or PoF, those conditions stack up and are annoying as hell, requiring you to run staff as a secondary weapon if only for Staff 4 (I still use my staff from WvW that has sigil of cleansing on it as well)

    Battle scars is great self-sustain now, but we really need a condition cleanse of some kind for Herald.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd scrap the Energy system in it's entirety.
    No more up keep for skills, but fixed durations instead.
    Herald would then get "Upkeep" points and can then have as many facets active as the upkeep points allow.

    But I'd also give Revenants racial skills as well as signets, to have more customization for the utility bars.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really like these suggestions. Pretty straightforward and wouldn't cause a lot of problem when applied. I also thought that Shortbow should be baseline for Core Revenant.

    My problem with Renegade is lack of synergy in itself (Weapon & Traits & Legend). Same with Herald.
    Corruption is a perfet example of how to make the Traitline versatile and viable accross the whole class. It opens so many new possibilites (mechanically), while Renegade and Herald Traitlines are mostly just increase, increase, number, number, number. Compared to SB, Reaper, or Berserker, Rev's E-Specs don't really change my playstyle, except the fact that I get a 2s Invulnerability.

    Agree on the Energy system. After 17 March patch, I feel punished and limited for having energy costs on every single ability on my skillbar. Unfortunately, I don't think that we'll see any major improvements over energy, as the creator of Revenant left a long time ago, and nowadays it feels like the current can't figure out what Revenant actually is.

    But yeah, to sum up: Give us more Core weapons, more Trident-like weapons and more versatility instead of Boons all over the place.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    My problem with Renegade is lack of synergy in itself (Weapon & Traits & Legend). Same with Herald.
    Corruption is a perfet example of how to make the Traitline versatile and viable accross the whole class. It opens so many new possibilites (mechanically), while Renegade and Herald Traitlines are mostly just increase, increase, number, number, number. Compared to SB, Reaper, or Berserker, Rev's E-Specs don't really change my playstyle, except the fact that I get a 2s Invulnerability.

    The problem is, Revenant was made with Herald in mind.
    I can totally see that the devs thought "everyone will take Invocation and Herald anyway, so we just need for more trait lines that work by themselves".

    Agree on the Energy system. After 17 March patch, I feel punished and limited for having energy costs on every single ability on my skillbar.

    That's why I only use one or two facets at once (the Fury one and sometimes the swiftness one) and Vengeful Hammer from the utilities and use the remaining energy for sword skills.