Strike Missions are going to end up like raids — mostly closed for new players. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Strike Missions are going to end up like raids — mostly closed for new players.

Just look at the LFG sometimes. 100LI, 250LI, 100 Dhuum KP(!), for SIMPLE and EASY content. How beating W5 is supposed to help me complete a strike mission which can be easily finished by bunch of random players without support and heal? I'm doing strikes everyday, only with random people. Of course, sometimes it's difficult to do Whisper Of Jormag or Boneskinner, but honestly LI and KP doesn't mean anything. I saw a lot of people pinging 250LI and messing raids like beginers. I can ping my 600LI and do 10k dps because today I want to play my engi and I never learnt it's rotation. I just have fun playing holo. But, hey, I have what you asked for. Does my LI matter now? I can be a first timer in strikes and screw everything, but still I know how to do raids.
It's not OK if you have to participate in different content to gain access to strikes; it's like "show me you dungeoneer title to play Fractals with us". Strike Missions are easy, just need to remember 1 or 2 simple things.

Master of garbage builds and being useless.

<1

Comments

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whisper can be pretty tough, especially the last 25% where many people panic and it all falls apart. Boneskinner is heal spam and walking circles around him. I've seen those 250+ LI groups too, but none of that is required. What is required is the will to improve and learn an encounter, something which a large part of the community has been sorely lacking.

    Just one friend who grabs somebody by the hand and explains stuff, takes them through, can make the difference. Ignore idiots, they can't dictate how others play the game - unless they just let them do it through their own inaction.

    I rather choose death.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    As far as my experience with NA LFG goes, Strike Missions are pretty chill. I do a strike tour every day. It takes between 30-45 minutes to finish everything except Forge Steel and people largely don't mind a couple of wipes to get everyone familiar with the mechanics which can be explained briefly in a couple of sentences. The DPS check is non-existent, it actually encourages casual players to play whatever they are comfortable with and cruise over the mechanics.

    It takes much less effort to host strikes than raids; more LFG filled up frequently, so I don't think strike will become like raids ever.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    Lfg looks full on strikes w/o reqs in NA. If fact I have almost never seen anything more then "be experienced" and that's only whisper. New players should easily be able to join groth-duo-raven and new steel and fire so I know your title is wrong. Some will just peak at those and struggle or be overwhelmed by Whisper/Boneskinner. I was annoyed one of the footsteps weapon collection had defeat Whisper because alot of players could get stuck but strike lfg seems way more active now then ever

    WvW bandwagoners have small D's and never left their house even before Covid19

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Just look at the LFG sometimes. 100LI, 250LI, 100 Dhuum KP(!), for SIMPLE and EASY content.

    Heh...if Whisper and Boneskinner were SIMPLE and EASY, every group would one shot it.

    I don't think we need to have groups locked behind LI, and I wouldn't have the kill proofs required for entry, but at this point, I'm zoning in to one shot strike missions, not spend 15-20 minutes on them, as I'm trying to fit them in around other activities. I have no heartburn about joining a group to help others learn, etc, but I would schedule myself for that. But if I want to grab a mission before a meta starts, I'm gone if the groups wipes at 50% or higher, and there was a steady stream of downed states from the start of the fight. Took me three separate groups to get the Whisper daily done, and the group I dropped last night and early this morning were not going to down the boss, no matter how many attempts they made.

    So long as people think they can just waltz in to end game content with a LB core ranger that was outDPS'd by the Heal Scourge (true story), you're going to get at least some in the community reacting this way, and I don't blame them, even if I don't agree with them.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Last time I checked, every1 could post their squad in LFG with their own requirements. So far this has not changed so what is a proplem if some ppl has specific requirements for their raid/strike squad?

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Boneskinner is heal spam and walking circles around him.

    Yeah that's the cheapo cheese tactic brought on due to it's raid like difficulty.

    In all honesty doing Boneskinner the way it's supposed to be done is way waaaay too hard for Strike mission content.
    Strikes are supposed to be easy introduction type content to raids, they're not supposed to be harder than raids and Boneskinner is harder than some raid bosses.
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

    Actually, that's exactly what's happening to raid.
    No Green Vale Guardian anyone?

    And no, I disagree with the topic, raids are never closed for new players, they are only closed for closed minded casuals.

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

    Its not really a flase experience when you do it in raids too. Doing mechanics is a dps loss and people will do everything to ignore them. At least in raids you take big damage when you dont do the green on VG. Boneskinner just tickles. The bugged one was way more fun :(

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

    Its not really a flase experience when you do it in raids too. Doing mechanics is a dps loss and people will do everything to ignore them. At least in raids you take big damage when you dont do the green on VG. Boneskinner just tickles. The bugged one was way more fun :(

    In some maybe, there's no tanking instakill mechanics though which are pretty abundant.
    Point is it shouldn't be encouraged and if it becomes the normal way of doing things then clearly something needs to be done to deter it.
    In Boneskinners case put a short timer on torches so if they are not re-lit in like 30 seconds, whole party wipes.
    Then just tone down the wisps and aoe to make it the mechanic actually doable instead of wiping the whole squad in seconds.

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    some maybe, there's no tanking instakill mechanics though which are pretty abundant.
    Point is it shouldn't be encouraged and if it becomes the normal way of doing things then clearly something needs to be done to deter it.
    In Boneskinners case put a short timer on torches so if they are not re-lit in like 30 seconds, whole party wipes.
    Then just tone down the wisps and aoe to make it the mechanic actually doable instead of wiping the whole squad in seconds.

    Oh, i would love it if anet introduced proper dps checks. The current damage output is way too high anyway.
    Though, i dont think you need to tone down the wisps. Currently you can survive by just hitting the boss, not caring about torches nor wisps.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Whisper can be pretty tough, especially the last 25% where many people panic and it all falls apart. Boneskinner is heal spam and walking circles around him. I've seen those 250+ LI groups too, but none of that is required. What is required is the will to improve and learn an encounter, something which a large part of the community has been sorely lacking.

    Just one friend who grabs somebody by the hand and explains stuff, takes them through, can make the difference. Ignore idiots, they can't dictate how others play the game - unless they just let them do it through their own inaction.

    Last 25% is also rough because you can't see a kitten thing through the visual noise. During part of it my whole screen is just white.

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Boneskinner is heal spam and walking circles around him.

    Yeah that's the cheapo cheese tactic brought on due to it's raid like difficulty.

    In all honesty doing Boneskinner the way it's supposed to be done is way waaaay too hard for Strike mission content.
    Strikes are supposed to be easy introduction type content to raids, they're not supposed to be harder than raids and Boneskinner is harder than some raid bosses.
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

    You can call it whatever you want but there is no reason to do things the hard way(and probably riskier) when you end up with the same rewards anyway.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭

    Just make your own groups and they will fill up much faster than any of those who are asking for LI (and in cases where I've checked we finish the same strike while they are still stuck in lfg with their ridiculous demands). It's what I've been doing and for the most part other than a few failed whisper attempts it's been pretty successful.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Whisper can be pretty tough, especially the last 25% where many people panic and it all falls apart. Boneskinner is heal spam and walking circles around him. I've seen those 250+ LI groups too, but none of that is required. What is required is the will to improve and learn an encounter, something which a large part of the community has been sorely lacking.

    Just one friend who grabs somebody by the hand and explains stuff, takes them through, can make the difference. Ignore idiots, they can't dictate how others play the game - unless they just let them do it through their own inaction.

    Last 25% is also rough because you can't see a kitten thing through the visual noise. During part of it my whole screen is just white.

    Yeah, I always turn off post processing and just make sure to look from above as much as possible. Stacking and just heal spamming probably is my only saving grace, because I have NO idea where to be during that bullet hell garbage. On that note, I also feel like this fight bugs out far too often at this stage. Many attempts simply died because the boss despawned/turned invisible when he gets CC'd right as he hits 25% hp or the wonderful "every effect and attack is doubled" bug.

    I rather choose death.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Currently, I only do Strikes three times a week for the weekly chest.
    I haven't encountered many problems lately, other than the occasional Mesmer dying.
    I don't know why it was only Mesmers, might be coincidence.

    If those kill proofs are annoying you, open your own group in the LFG tool.

  • Use Gw2 ChatCodeBuddy. Problem solved.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    No you're right LI doesn't really matter. I haven't done all the raid wings yet and finished all the strike missions with ease.

    And I think you're wrong about the title. You can easily hop into a group using the LFG tool without issues.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020
    1. Make your own group
    2. Know the fight or watch people that have done it if it's first time for you
    3. A. Make sure other people know the fight or have them leave
      B. If people admit they don't know the fight explain it to them and kick them if they consistently do something completely idiotic (max range longbow ranger , Greatsword camping mesmers, pistol+pistol thieves, etc) despite being told to stop
    4. If said people complete the mission and are in your guild(s), get the same people next week to avoid step 3A/3B
  • Strikes are not in any way closed to new players, the majority of lfgs have no kp requirement or even specify experience... It's true that there are quite a lot of lfgs that ask for some LI or form of raid KP, but considering faster clears result in greater rewards, and it's reasonable to assume players with raid KP are able to perform rotations better than those who don't raid, it's justified to ask for such. This post is just blowing something out of proportion and making an issue out of something where no issue exists

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Painbow.6059 said:
    Strikes are not in any way closed to new players, the majority of lfgs have no kp requirement or even specify experience... It's true that there are quite a lot of lfgs that ask for some LI or form of raid KP, but considering faster clears result in greater rewards, and it's reasonable to assume players with raid KP are able to perform rotations better than those who don't raid, it's justified to ask for such. This post is just blowing something out of proportion and making an issue out of something where no issue exists

    I could not agree more.
    We will have a proplem if they takes off the ability to post in the LFG without an commander tag, till then every1 can just post their own group so I just cant see how some1 asking KPs is a proplem.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Just look at the LFG sometimes. 100LI, 250LI, 100 Dhuum KP(!)

    I prefer be in squad where ask kp from cm100. It make some good filter. How I see it not enough ask only li, or dhuum kp. So if you not have some li and don't go raid - this is not problem. You a always welcome if link yours cm100kp in my squad.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.
    I see plenty of groups in LFG without requirements or just asking for some experience with the Strikes fill up almost instantly all the time, and if no such group is available or one wants a complete beginner group, everybody has the power to make their own LFG asking for such, and I've seen those fill up quickly as well.

    I seriously don't get the mindset of people not wanting to lift a finger, either in self-improvement or group finding/making, but then complaining about or dismissing the content altogether instead, because the perfect beginner friendly no requirement but somehow still competent group for them doesn't fall into their lap to carry them instantly.

    Plus, half or more of the groups with outrageous requirements are just trolling/trying to scare away particularly incompetent and unwilling to improve and learn players anyway, without actually enforcing them.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I haven't encountered many problems lately, other than the occasional Mesmer dying.
    I don't know why it was only Mesmers, might be coincidence.

    I see you haven't met Continuum Split yet.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Aeon.4583Aeon.4583 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:
    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.
    I see plenty of groups in LFG without requirements or just asking for some experience with the Strikes fill up almost instantly all the time, and if no such group is available or one wants a complete beginner group, everybody has the power to make their own LFG asking for such, and I've seen those fill up quickly as well.

    I seriously don't get the mindset of people not wanting to lift a finger, either in self-improvement or group finding/making, but then complaining about or dismissing the content altogether instead, because the perfect beginner friendly no requirement but somehow still competent group for them doesn't fall into their lap to carry them instantly.

    Plus, half or more of the groups with outrageous requirements are just trolling/trying to scare away particularly incompetent and unwilling to improve and learn players anyway, without actually enforcing them.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Too many cliche text describing 'Elitism' for such simple and sarcastic joke.
    'That community has to go somewhere'

  • This is my mindset. I want to enjoy the game. I enjoy striked if I play with experianced raiders. If I play with beginers its boring. Thats why I only do strikes:
    a) with a static
    b) with experianced raiders
    I know that I can do them with anyone (especialy older ones) but why when it isnt fun?
    And waiting in lfg doesnt take any time since I CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE WHEN WAITING.
    So here is a choice: do something boring or do something fun while waiting for more players to do something fun.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    Brb end of May

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    Brb end of May

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    Brb end of May

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    When casuals would come here to whine aout the increasing demand of KP/LI/gizmos from last bosses , that was increasing by the min ....
    When the casual would whine that all players forced them to like their Berseker gear ....
    When casuals would come here to whine about needed to 20k dps otherwise they would get kicked ....

    You would come here and try to shut them down
    Have you thought for a sec , from where those players demanding such ludicrus demands copy from ?
    It was from the company ? From other casuals ?
    When we see ppl hating Raids .... they hate the company ? The other casuals ?
    Do they whine about the 30 min Raids every 9 months ?

    You failed with raids ... dont do the same in Strikes
    Use the 5 year friendlist/guild

    Brb end of May

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    When casuals would come here to whine aout the increasing demand of KP/LI/gizmos from last bosses , that was increasing by the min ....
    When the casual would whine that all players forced them to like their Berseker gear ....
    When casuals would come here to whine about needed to 20k dps otherwise they would get kicked ....

    You would come here and try to shut them down

    There main reason there are more groups asking for specific requirements in LFG, at least for Strikes, than those without is because those without fill much faster, often near instantly, while the ones with requirements stick around a while until they fill up, increasing their perceived visibility.
    If the people who Raid are such a small minority, how could the majority of LFG's be people asking for LI and who is joining all those groups?
    And why does no one else make their own groups without requirements?

    Like a broken record I'm going to say it again, just make your own group if you take issues with existing groups in LFG asking for specific things.
    Nobody is keeping you from playing that content, no one is forcing you to provide LI, no one is forcing you to play with specific gear, no one is forcing you to have a certain amount of DPS - unless you purposefully chose to join a group with any of those requirements over one without or to make your own group.

    I'm not shutting anyone down, rather than just pointing out the entitlement and victim mentality of some vocal casuals, who rather spend their energy complaining about other's not catering to them than to just make their own way.

    Again, how hard is it to put up your own LFG asking for "X content, everyone welcome", and how does another player asking for LI for their own group prevent you from doing so or harm your experience in any way?

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Have you thought for a sec , from where those players demanding such ludicrus demands copy from ?
    It was from the company ? From other casuals ?
    When we see ppl hating Raids .... they hate the company ? The other casuals ?
    Do they whine about the 30 min Raids every 9 months ?

    You failed with raids ... dont do the same in Strikes
    Use the 5 year friendlist/guild

    Surprisingly the players who hate Raids aren't the ones complaining about lack of Raids, but the ones who enjoy and play Raids, yes.

    And again you are trying to tell me how to play the game and how I'm allowed to look for groups, even though I'm not even one of those players keen on LI checks for especially Strikes myself.
    I just recognize that it doesn't effect me in any way if other's do.

    If I want to do a casual Strike run with a wacky/niche build I just don't join a group looking for specific things I'm not willing or able to provide, expecting them to just cater to my demands. I join a casual group or, if currently not available, make my own, so I don't come in conflict with other players with different expectations.

    If I want to play casually and/or am playing on a build I know can't perform at high levels/fill certain asked for roles, it is my fault if I get kicked should I join a group asking for those things and it would be imo quite rude of me to waste other people's time like that.

    Raids or Fractal CM's didn't fail, they just lacked support. Strikes won't fail either, but yes, if Anet scales them back and only releases a single Strike every 1-3 years and never updates the rewards in half a decade, Strikes will slowly die out too.
    That has very little to nothing to do with how people make their own LFG's/groups, as that is not an ability hardcore players or elitists have a monopoly over.

    Don't tell other people how they have to play and enjoy the game, just play it how you enjoy it.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    When casuals would come here to whine aout the increasing demand of KP/LI/gizmos from last bosses , that was increasing by the min ....
    When the casual would whine that all players forced them to like their Berseker gear ....
    When casuals would come here to whine about needed to 20k dps otherwise they would get kicked ....

    You would come here and try to shut them down

    There main reason there are more groups asking for specific requirements in LFG, at least for Strikes, than those without is because those without fill much faster, often near instantly, while the ones with requirements stick around a while until they fill up, increasing their perceived visibility.
    If the people who Raid are such a small minority, how could the majority of LFG's be people asking for LI and who is joining all those groups?
    And why does no one else make their own groups without requirements?

    Like a broken record I'm going to say it again, just make your own group if you take issues with existing groups in LFG asking for specific things.
    Nobody is keeping you from playing that content, no one is forcing you to provide LI, no one is forcing you to play with specific gear, no one is forcing you to have a certain amount of DPS - unless you purposefully chose to join a group with any of those requirements over one without or to make your own group.

    I'm not shutting anyone down, rather than just pointing out the entitlement and victim mentality of some vocal casuals, who rather spend their energy complaining about other's not catering to them than to just make their own way.

    Again, how hard is it to put up your own LFG asking for "X content, everyone welcome", and how does another player asking for LI for their own group prevent you from doing so or harm your experience in any way?

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Have you thought for a sec , from where those players demanding such ludicrus demands copy from ?
    It was from the company ? From other casuals ?
    When we see ppl hating Raids .... they hate the company ? The other casuals ?
    Do they whine about the 30 min Raids every 9 months ?

    You failed with raids ... dont do the same in Strikes
    Use the 5 year friendlist/guild

    Surprisingly the players who hate Raids aren't the ones complaining about lack of Raids, but the ones who enjoy and play Raids, yes.

    And again you are trying to tell me how to play the game and how I'm allowed to look for groups, even though I'm not even one of those players keen on LI checks for especially Strikes myself.
    I just recognize that it doesn't effect me in any way if other's do.

    If I want to do a casual Strike run with a wacky/niche build I just don't join a group looking for specific things I'm not willing or able to provide, expecting them to just cater to my demands. I join a casual group or, if currently not available, make my own, so I don't come in conflict with other players with different expectations.

    If I want to play casually and/or am playing on a build I know can't perform at high levels/fill certain asked for roles, it is my fault if I get kicked should I join a group asking for those things and it would be imo quite rude of me to waste other people's time like that.

    Raids or Fractal CM's didn't fail, they just lacked support. Strikes won't fail either, but yes, if Anet scales them back and only releases a single Strike every 1-3 years and never updates the rewards in half a decade, Strikes will slowly die out too.
    That has very little to nothing to do with how people make their own LFG's/groups, as that is not an ability hardcore players or elitists have a monopoly over.

    Don't tell other people how they have to play and enjoy the game, just play it how you enjoy it.

    ''And again you are trying to tell me how to play the game and how I'm allowed to look for groups, even though I'm not even one of those players keen on LI checks for especially Strikes myself.
    I just recognize that it doesn't effect me in any way if other's do.''

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    I am a maister too in circular comments :P

    Cy another time ..Mr Mod is agree..

    Brb end of May

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    Like honestly you're really not missing content on strikes all you're doing is killing a boss and after that nothing happens. I don't get why casuals feel like they're missing this grand adventure.

  • @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    I am not saying that they are not trying enough. I am saying that I want to play strikes with same kind of players as I play raids with. Why? Because playing with casuals is not fun for me

  • @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    I dont want to add players to friendlist. Why should I when there is lfg so I can find players I am looking for. Why didnt you add casual players to friendlist so you dont have to look at lfg? Same question

  • @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    When casuals would come here to whine aout the increasing demand of KP/LI/gizmos from last bosses , that was increasing by the min ....
    When the casual would whine that all players forced them to like their Berseker gear ....
    When casuals would come here to whine about needed to 20k dps otherwise they would get kicked ....

    You would come here and try to shut them down
    Have you thought for a sec , from where those players demanding such ludicrus demands copy from ?
    It was from the company ? From other casuals ?
    When we see ppl hating Raids .... they hate the company ? The other casuals ?
    Do they whine about the 30 min Raids every 9 months ?

    You failed with raids ... dont do the same in Strikes
    Use the 5 year friendlist/guild

    Dont you see this? You are saying that the way someone plays is bad because you like it diferently. I can make 200 dhuum kp squad to do keyfarm. I CAN. Why not? Because it is not needed? Because I dont take everybody? And so what? I can play with whoever I want. If you create your squad with no requirements and I join, I will not enforce any. I might leave if I dont have fun because we are failing but I wouldnt demand something when it is someone elses squad.

    If anet give special KP system to strikes, hardcore players will stop asking for raid KP or Li. Symple as that

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    Okay to sum up the reality of the title of this thread, let's say the title should be renamed to: Strike missions are going to end up just like raids--mostly closed to players who are afraid of failure.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    Okay to sum up the reality of the title of this thread, let's say the title should be renamed to: Strike missions are going to end up just like raids--mostly closed to players who are afraid of failure.

    And dont want to put up their own squads and instead want to get carried.

  • fra.5241fra.5241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020

    Unfortunately some people are toxic and Arenanet keeps sleepings here.
    I don't play Raid, but I know as to play every Strike Missions. But how can I join someone else, if I haven't any Kill Proof in my hand? I am simply excluded.

    This game's getting worse! ç.ç

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @fra.5241 said:
    Unfortunately some people are toxic and Arenanet keeps sleepings here.
    I don't play Raid, but I know as to play every Strike Missions. But how can I join someone else, if I haven't any Kill Proof in my hand? I am simply excluded.

    This game's getting worse! ç.ç

    That's why you should just open your own Squads in the LFG finder.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    No, as you said just now:
    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .

    That is LITERALLY what you said, in your very comment. Now following that statement and logic: the majority of players can make strike groups without demanding LI or KP, since they themselves do not have any (or join free for all groups).

    Every player has the same choice as far as who and how he wants to play with others. You don't get to tell others how they should play, and others don't get to tell you how you should play.

    If you want a group without any requirements, that is possible and just a few clicks away, here is a small guide:
    1.) You open your contact menu
    2.) You open the LFG section of that contact menu
    3a.) You now either join a LFG with no requirements
    3b.) You open a LFG with no requirements. Usually a simple:"all are welcome" is sufficient and will fill up in less than 1 minute
    4.) you can skip all of the above and simply join a public squad via the games tab, simply do not chose the squad option but rather the public option

    You can now proceed to play the content without any requirements in place or having to worry what other players do or do not.

    @fra.5241 said:
    Unfortunately some people are toxic and Arenanet keeps sleepings here.
    I don't play Raid, but I know as to play every Strike Missions. But how can I join someone else, if I haven't any Kill Proof in my hand? I am simply excluded.

    This game's getting worse! ç.ç

    Stop relying on others to make the squads and make your own. Problem solved.

    TL;DR:
    There is a simple solution to every LFG issue people have: it's called show personal initiative (aka make your own groups). You don't get to complain about others not playing the way YOU want, while expecting them to do all the work. That's not how the world works.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    If you are not (yet) part of that community or don't want to be, you don't have to join those groups.

    Everybody who actually wants to can play and beat this content (and to a lesser extend the same goes for Raids, it's just more effort to find or get beginner groups going, mainly due to lack of new content to serve as more even jump in point).
    It's just easier to complain most of the time than to actually do something about it.

    Or you can stay on Wing 5/6 and let the more casual envoroment alone without the KP /LI requiments .
    What kind of logic is that ?.. I did wing 5 and i then i move to a more casual and impose there humogous amount of requiments too ?

    Have you checked yourself in the mirror , and aks yourself why you are saying to the casuals 4 YEARS NOW ''you dont try hard enought'' . And when some1 else asked you why Raids are discontinued/failed you give them this answer :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1166940#Comment_1166940
    (short answer > the company released Wing 5 ... 9 months after the Wing4 .... the majority got a heart attack and quit ... its the company that screw it up)

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    One last try...

    Indeed.

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

    Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

    I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

    While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

    Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.
    Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

    And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

    The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.
    Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.
    Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.
    There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

    Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.
    It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.
    It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

    First of all, I mostly quit the game for a while after the "Template" fiasco and due to the lack of new engaging content and just recently came back playing a bit now and then, and quite casually so.
    In doing so I've never asked anyone for LI or KP for strikes, and considering their difficulty (or lack thereof) find it quite ridiculous to do so personally.
    I myself mostly pug Strikes through LFG, the majority of those groups I joined have no requirements whatsoever, or at most ask for some experience with the mechanics.

    That said, I don't see what the issue is with people wanting to play with like minded people of a similar skill level? How does that harm anyone, and why do casual players keep complaining about it to this extend? Everybody has the ability to form their own groups with their own rules and requirements.

    I've never seen hardcore players being toxic about casuals making groups with no requirements and how they now don't even want to play the content anymore.
    Why is the other way around constantly the case? Why are casuals in this community so toxic and hostile towards hardcore players and content, wanting everybody to play by their rules, rather than just doing their own thing?
    Don't like LI/KP groups? Don't make/join them and make/join one without.

    And why are Raiders moving to Strikes? Well, maybe they got tired of playing the same 3h of content, with seemingly no future, daily/weekly for years, so now they are moving to something at least somewhat comparable and new.
    Clearly there is an audience for hardcore content, they are just not getting it, so it's not surprising to now see those players in semi-casual strikes, but still wanting to play with other competent players for the smooth experience they are used to and with a efficiency which is fun to them.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Also the highest/most common serious LI requirement for Strikes that I've seen so far was 100LI, which is 4 full clears, aka 12 hours of raiding over 4 weeks. And while it would take a beginner surely more time than that to acquire, it's hardly humongous.
    Also, as said before, these requirements are usually just to provide some sort of barrier of entry to get at least baseline competent players and is hardly ever enforced, especially if players joining are upfront and honest about lacking the requirements and about their skill and experience level. Sure, some will just kick players lacking the requirements, but that's entirely their prerogative, just as more casual groups can kick elitists from their casual group if they are not a fit.

    You have played with simply minded player and you had the orppotunity to put them in your friendlist , for 5 straight years now (including your guild) .
    What you cannot find 10 ppl , from the 30% of the population that did the first boss from Wing 1 ?
    Is it the Templates ... that broke those friends bonds ? Where they , simpy '' discarded tools'' for each day to be used ?

    The majority of the population dont have Raid LI/KP , because they havent done Raids .
    So you comming here and telling them that they should go in Training Raids > put some efford > dont expect everything to be handed to them > AND THEN TRIED STRIKE MISSIONS AFTER THEY GET 100 LI , it doesnt sound too welcoming from here .
    Why shouldnt in return , be hostile to you too ?

    At this point I honestly don't even know what you are on about or what your beef with me is.

    I also didn't tell anyone they have to go do Raids and get LI to get into Strikes, quite the contrary.

    Your kind , breeds the same mentality that resulted into the failure of Raids .
    It was not the company fault for releasing raids 9 months later ... but comments like this ...

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Aeon.4583 said:
    Yeah it is very very ironic how you need to be good in raids to porticipate in strikes. Should be the other way around, isn't it?

    You don't. There are some experienced Raiders looking for like minded players of a similar skill level in hopes for a quick and smooth run, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since their favoured content, like Raids, hasn't seen any updates for almost a year, or like Fractal CM's for almost 3 years. That community has to go somewhere and is likely intend on maintaining their expectations to their groups.

    So you are saying players choosing to play with like minded other players of a similar skill level, having fun together to the detriment of no one else is what is killing hardcore content, rather than people only getting 30 minutes of new hardcore content every year (or 15 minutes of content in 3 years for Fractals), burning out on playing the same extremely limited selection of content over and over, all while feeling like the content they are investing time and effort in has no future?

    And seriously, what is so outrageous to you about me suggesting to people to make their own groups with their own set of requirements (or lack thereof) and to have fun playing the way they want to play, regardless of what others are doing?
    Why are you, and a large part of the more casually playing community so hostile and toxic about how other more hardcore oriented players choose to play the game, rather than just playing the way you want to play yourself?

    How are you harmed in any way by someone else asking for 100LI or what have you for a Strike, when you can just join another group not asking for that, or make one yourself?

    Why does everybody have to play by your rules and cater to your needs, or be a horrible elitist?

    I'm not saying people who play Strikes or Raids or any other content with groups without any requirement are doing it wrong or don't belong, quite the opposite, I think it's great (and I'm infact one of those more casual players currently). Just like I also think it's perfectly fine for people with different expectations to set requirements for playing together with strangers, making it more likely that the expectations and skill levels in those groups are more aligned, making it in turn more likely that everybody has a good time in those groups as well.

    You are the one propagating a hostile mindset that is keeping yourself and other players away from more engaging content such as Strikes and Raids, when really you could just be making your own groups with your own set of rules and expectations, not other players asking for LI.

    When casuals would come here to whine aout the increasing demand of KP/LI/gizmos from last bosses , that was increasing by the min ....
    When the casual would whine that all players forced them to like their Berseker gear ....
    When casuals would come here to whine about needed to 20k dps otherwise they would get kicked ....

    You would come here and try to shut them down

    There main reason there are more groups asking for specific requirements in LFG, at least for Strikes, than those without is because those without fill much faster, often near instantly, while the ones with requirements stick around a while until they fill up, increasing their perceived visibility.
    If the people who Raid are such a small minority, how could the majority of LFG's be people asking for LI and who is joining all those groups?
    And why does no one else make their own groups without requirements?

    Like a broken record I'm going to say it again, just make your own group if you take issues with existing groups in LFG asking for specific things.
    Nobody is keeping you from playing that content, no one is forcing you to provide LI, no one is forcing you to play with specific gear, no one is forcing you to have a certain amount of DPS - unless you purposefully chose to join a group with any of those requirements over one without or to make your own group.

    I'm not shutting anyone down, rather than just pointing out the entitlement and victim mentality of some vocal casuals, who rather spend their energy complaining about other's not catering to them than to just make their own way.

    Again, how hard is it to put up your own LFG asking for "X content, everyone welcome", and how does another player asking for LI for their own group prevent you from doing so or harm your experience in any way?

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:
    Have you thought for a sec , from where those players demanding such ludicrus demands copy from ?
    It was from the company ? From other casuals ?
    When we see ppl hating Raids .... they hate the company ? The other casuals ?
    Do they whine about the 30 min Raids every 9 months ?

    You failed with raids ... dont do the same in Strikes
    Use the 5 year friendlist/guild

    Surprisingly the players who hate Raids aren't the ones complaining about lack of Raids, but the ones who enjoy and play Raids, yes.

    And again you are trying to tell me how to play the game and how I'm allowed to look for groups, even though I'm not even one of those players keen on LI checks for especially Strikes myself.
    I just recognize that it doesn't effect me in any way if other's do.

    If I want to do a casual Strike run with a wacky/niche build I just don't join a group looking for specific things I'm not willing or able to provide, expecting them to just cater to my demands. I join a casual group or, if currently not available, make my own, so I don't come in conflict with other players with different expectations.

    If I want to play casually and/or am playing on a build I know can't perform at high levels/fill certain asked for roles, it is my fault if I get kicked should I join a group asking for those things and it would be imo quite rude of me to waste other people's time like that.

    Raids or Fractal CM's didn't fail, they just lacked support. Strikes won't fail either, but yes, if Anet scales them back and only releases a single Strike every 1-3 years and never updates the rewards in half a decade, Strikes will slowly die out too.
    That has very little to nothing to do with how people make their own LFG's/groups, as that is not an ability hardcore players or elitists have a monopoly over.

    Don't tell other people how they have to play and enjoy the game, just play it how you enjoy it.

    The basic logic that I’m getting from those who are arguing their point against you Asum, is that I think that people are considering Raids to be somewhat of a failure, due to the gate of entry as well as requirements.

    My basic understanding is that they don’t want Strikes to fail like Raids because of those reasons probably because they are enjoying the content and are beginning to guard it out of fear.

    100% get what your saying in your post though, but I think this generally what the problem is.

  • fra.5241fra.5241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Stop relying on others to make the squads and make your own. Problem solved.
    TL;DR:
    There is a simple solution to every LFG issue people have: it's called show personal initiative (aka make your own groups). You don't get to complain about others not playing the way YOU want, while expecting them to do all the work. That's not how the world works.

    Oh sure, problem solved! It's not about initializing something or not, because this is mental discrimination, and it's a topic that also goes beyond videogames.
    I'm agree that people have to get a bit of experience to certain contents. Maybe giving player a chance to join, it'd be possible to have an idea of him. But to read certain post as "250LI required", it's litterally crazy!
    Humanity is the key to all, my friend. But people think only of themselves. This is the real reason!

  • Moonyeti.3296Moonyeti.3296 Member ✭✭✭

    I have never done any Raiding in GW2, but I do strikes all the time. Often use the public lobby for the daily strike mission. While I do occasionally see those listed with ridiculous requirements, most of the time it is pretty chill. I suspect that those are made by people just wanting other people to rush them through content, because the few times I joined a squad asking for prior experience (link the gloves or some other dumb thing) they tended to be focused on cheese tactics, not adapting to the dynamic / group and generally being a slog.

    Conversely, joining a chill group, or forming my own, or just PUG in the public lobby have all been better experiences.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @fra.5241 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Stop relying on others to make the squads and make your own. Problem solved.
    TL;DR:
    There is a simple solution to every LFG issue people have: it's called show personal initiative (aka make your own groups). You don't get to complain about others not playing the way YOU want, while expecting them to do all the work. That's not how the world works.

    Oh sure, problem solved! It's not about initializing something or not, because this is mental discrimination, and it's a topic that also goes beyond videogames.
    I'm agree that people have to get a bit of experience to certain contents. Maybe giving player a chance to join, it'd be possible to have an idea of him. But to read certain post as "250LI required", it's litterally crazy!
    Humanity is the key to all, my friend. But people think only of themselves. This is the real reason!

    You're right and even as a raider myself I see requiring any LI for strikes as idiotic. I also see people leaving on a first couple of wipes as idiotic. But that's the same humanity you talk about.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's giving people a false experience using the cheeseo healo tactic beacuse you can't do that in raids when a bosses mechanics get too annoying to deal with.

    Actually, that's exactly what's happening to raid.
    No Green Vale Guardian anyone?

    And no, I disagree with the topic, raids are never closed for new players, they are only closed for closed minded casuals.

    I raise you a no updraft Gors and KC (honestly has anyone even had to do the kill white/red mechanic).
    Honestly the dev can't foresee how players find inventive way to crack the nuts they produced for them. I could forsee that wanted qadim 2 to be 3 subsquad of 3 at each pillar, and 1 tank in the middle. Honestly I wish Teapot could have a interview with all the old raid devs, and see how many mechanics the players found solutions to that were not intended.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    Okay to sum up the reality of the title of this thread, let's say the title should be renamed to: Strike missions are going to end up just like raids--mostly closed to players who are afraid of failure.

    Maybe ... but considering who this game caters to, that would still be a valid concern.

    Let's be clear: It is NOT in Anet's best interest to put ANY barriers in front of people that they are presenting this content to in an OW format. People might want it 'easy' that's true ... but don't think for a second those people are fooled by the attempt for Anet to inject raid content (that at best they are neutral to) into their playground. That 'transplant' is going to die hard like the original version if that's the ONLY change to raids that Anet is offering to those same people.

    The only difference is that now they are part of OW maps and seemingly sneaking their way into map metas, it's going to be clear that this direction means it's content we will have to eat just because it's what Anet put on our plate. I loathe the fact that content is being delivered like this and I have no doubt others feel the same. It's a direction where my choice goes from doing content or not to playing the game or not. That's not a healthy choice that Anet should be giving to players.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/