Something that was forgotten - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Something that was forgotten

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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

    It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

    Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.

    Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

    umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.

    Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????
    FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.
    Renegade still has no trade off too :)
    Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

    The ability to attack during the evade.

    This is SO MISSUNDERSTOOD. I forgive your ignorance because it a common miss conception. However, just to clarify AGAIN about Mirages ability to "Attack during evade and how its allegedly only Mirage"

    The fact is that Thief, Ranger, and most if not all other classes can also attack during an evade. evades are attached to many skills in the game for other classes. Thief I think has the most by far. For sure FAR more than Mesmer in any form.

    Also Mirages ability to attack during evade is the ambush attack. It IS the dodge. The ambush damage doesn't do kitten for damage without clones and also needs IH traited. With EM traited your clones WONT ambush and WONT do jack during dodge! WITH IH traited they will ambush (cause of the GM trait NOT Mirage cloak alone). Mirage cloak allows mesmer to move during evade SO DOES Normal Dodge. Anyone can use instant cast skills during any other action NOT only mirage or mesmer.

    The Trade off for Mirage Cloak is how the dodge behaves. Normal dodge you roll and move out of danger, however, with Mirage you dont dodge roll u gain Mirage cloak which gives the same 3/4 sec evade window but also allows you to move. That said, if you move backwards you are slow as kitten (unlike normal dodge) Mirage can easily get stuck in danger due to the different mechanic of the dodge. THAT IS THE TRADE OFF. YOU STAY IN AOE rings IN MELE RANGE.

    Basically, what I am saying is the real trade off for Mirage cloak is you gain not rolling when you dodge so you can still attack, however, you then find you have a harder time getting out of danger because you dont move out of the way of anything with Mirage cloak. The only way you move out of danger is to choose a direction and walk/run or use up a stun break (blink) or your elite (jaunt) unless you bring specific utility skills or specific weapon skills.

    The Trade off for Ambush damage on mirage is you lose the ability to bring a 3rd core traitline that would often add more to the build and give more advantage other than the fact that base weapons have been so badly nerfed that core damage in general is HORRIBLE. That said, the fact remains that choosing Mirage over other traits has its own trade off in the form of losing better trait lines. Its the only gain from Mirage is "Mirage Cloak." ITS the ONLY gain from choosing the traitline and espec. That's IT!

    peeps complain about mirage cloak doing too much.
    but mirage cloak for the most part was many many MANY traits.
    Deceptive evasion -> grandmaster 1
    IH -> grandmaster 2
    mirage cloak -> minor adept 3
    renewing oasis -> major adept 4
    evasive mirror -> major master 5
    mirrored axes/mirage mantle -> major master 6
    speed of sand -> grandmaster minor 7
    and you end up with 7! traits almost compleatly tied to the stupid dodge, and some ONLY tied to the dodge.
    I actually never thought about how many traits are devoted into making mirage cloak good, holy kitten.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    You guys arguing with someone thinking using Swipe into a block is a waste... but i guess boredom in quarantine took over? I for myself looking for an interesting thread to jump in too and give some detailed wall of text no one will read. Like can someone open a Mesmer hate thread or something? These i always had the most fun and reason to interact with, because finding the most bias, biggest lack of knowledge and most narrowed bronze propaganda and stupidity there, just like the most clueless and biggest nonsense balance changes from Anet. It is time for some Mesmer hate guys. I am bored, DO SOMETHING!

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love clueless moderators that remove your posts without a reason and when 70% of the thread is off-topic/derailing its w/e. Best moderators ever /s

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I love clueless moderators that remove your posts without a reason and when 70% of the thread is off-topic/derailing its w/e. Best moderators ever /s

    they love you <3

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    You guys arguing with someone thinking using Swipe into a block is a waste... but i guess bordem in quarantine took over? I for myself looking for an interesting thread to jump in too and give some detailed wall of text no one will read. Like can someone open a Mesmer hate thread or something? These i always had the most fun and reason to interact with, because finding the most bias, biggest lack of knowledge and most narrowed bronze propaganda and stupidity there, just like the most clueless and biggest nonsense balance changes from Anet. It is time for some Mesmer hate guys. I am bored, DO SOMETHING!

    im on it!, this one is going to be a doozy TRUST ME.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876
    aaaaand its gone, and I got a warn :o

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 Rofl, sad times! I could not even see it

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    The degenerate

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    I could not see what he wrote but i guess it maybe still was too pro Mesmer for Anets taste? Maybe the nerf suggestions were not clueless and nonsense enough?

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    I could not see what he wrote but i guess it maybe still was too pro Mesmer for Anets taste? Maybe the nerf suggestions were not clueless and nonsense enough?

    No, he more or less covered everything that’s still usable.

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    I could not see what he wrote but i guess it maybe still was too pro Mesmer for Anets taste? Maybe the nerf suggestions were not clueless and nonsense enough?

    Ill ask why I was warned lol

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    I could not see what he wrote but i guess it maybe still was too pro Mesmer for Anets taste? Maybe the nerf suggestions were not clueless and nonsense enough?

    No, he more or less covered everything that’s still usable.

    Didn't he forget to take away the second dodge?

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    They also forgot the Tradeoff to add to FB, but these are insignificant details.

    It kinda has one. The virtues work differently between all three. It's just that they're way better for the elite specs.

    Now compare that to 1 endurance bar, tell me how they compare.

    Why dont you question why daredevil has better evades but also gain additional evae ... when other class have better evade but -1, instead of +1 ;)

    umm.. but DD has a tradeoff in swipe instead of steal. So yes, there's a tradeoff. FB has none.

    Swipe was made UNBLOCKABLE, which is a trade off. What he gave up for +1 evade AND 3 better evades on his choice??????????
    FB "trade off" that he lost normal virtues and gained tomes - doesnt mean trade off didnt happen in anet logic, tomes are basically +15 skills but who cares.
    Renegade still has no trade off too :)
    Also this thread isnt about "trade offs", feel free to make another one

    The ability to attack during the evade.

    This is SO MISSUNDERSTOOD. I forgive your ignorance because it a common miss conception. However, just to clarify AGAIN about Mirages ability to "Attack during evade and how its allegedly only Mirage"

    The fact is that Thief, Ranger, and most if not all other classes can also attack during an evade. evades are attached to many skills in the game for other classes. Thief I think has the most by far. For sure FAR more than Mesmer in any form.

    Also Mirages ability to attack during evade is the ambush attack. It IS the dodge. The ambush damage doesn't do kitten for damage without clones and also needs IH traited. With EM traited your clones WONT ambush and WONT do jack during dodge! WITH IH traited they will ambush (cause of the GM trait NOT Mirage cloak alone). Mirage cloak allows mesmer to move during evade SO DOES Normal Dodge. Anyone can use instant cast skills during any other action NOT only mirage or mesmer.

    The Trade off for Mirage Cloak is how the dodge behaves. Normal dodge you roll and move out of danger, however, with Mirage you dont dodge roll u gain Mirage cloak which gives the same 3/4 sec evade window but also allows you to move. That said, if you move backwards you are slow as kitten (unlike normal dodge) Mirage can easily get stuck in danger due to the different mechanic of the dodge. THAT IS THE TRADE OFF. YOU STAY IN AOE rings IN MELE RANGE.

    Basically, what I am saying is the real trade off for Mirage cloak is you gain not rolling when you dodge so you can still attack, however, you then find you have a harder time getting out of danger because you dont move out of the way of anything with Mirage cloak. The only way you move out of danger is to choose a direction and walk/run or use up a stun break (blink) or your elite (jaunt) unless you bring specific utility skills or specific weapon skills.

    The Trade off for Ambush damage on mirage is you lose the ability to bring a 3rd core traitline that would often add more to the build and give more advantage other than the fact that base weapons have been so badly nerfed that core damage in general is HORRIBLE. That said, the fact remains that choosing Mirage over other traits has its own trade off in the form of losing better trait lines. Its the only gain from Mirage is "Mirage Cloak." ITS the ONLY gain from choosing the traitline and espec. That's IT!

    peeps complain about mirage cloak doing too much.
    but mirage cloak for the most part was many many MANY traits.
    Deceptive evasion -> grandmaster 1
    IH -> grandmaster 2
    mirage cloak -> minor adept 3
    renewing oasis -> major adept 4
    evasive mirror -> major master 5
    mirrored axes/mirage mantle -> major master 6
    speed of sand -> grandmaster minor 7
    and you end up with 7! traits almost compleatly tied to the stupid dodge, and some ONLY tied to the dodge.
    I actually never thought about how many traits are devoted into making mirage cloak good, holy kitten.

    Gee, where have I heard this argument before. Something beginning with S. Oh right, Steal. Yet you lot still thought steal was doing too much.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Wait. Thousand clueless kitten can make threads asking for mirage nerfs but mirage mains can't make threads asking for their own nerfs?

    I could not see what he wrote but i guess it maybe still was too pro Mesmer for Anets taste? Maybe the nerf suggestions were not clueless and nonsense enough?

    No, he more or less covered everything that’s still usable.

    Didn't he forget to take away the second dodge?

    Well that's never going to happen, so it's not worth mentioning.

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Back on topic...

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Back on topic...

    is that a burning DH?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Fun Daredevil

  • @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Back on topic...

    is that a burning DH?

    Yep.

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, remove all damage from torch. Nobody should run that trash weapon anyway. Not only does it never hit, but even if it magically does. Cleansing literally one condition will save you.

    But what other guardians has said already, you can't fit radiance into an fb build and core guard doesn't have any cover condis to actually make the stacks stick.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Yeah, remove all damage from torch. Nobody should run that trash weapon anyway. Not only does it never hit, but even if it magically does. Cleansing literally one condition will save you.

    But what other guardians has said already, you can't fit radiance into an fb build and core guard doesn't have any cover condis to actually make the stacks stick.

    I'm sure Ram can fit radiance into fb

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 9:22AM

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Yeah, remove all damage from torch. Nobody should run that trash weapon anyway. Not only does it never hit, but even if it magically does. Cleansing literally one condition will save you.
    But what other guardians has said already, you can't fit radiance into an fb build and core guard doesn't have any cover condis to actually make the stacks stick.

    I thought it was clear? I want it to do its damage over longer period of time, like other burns/conditions that were "adjusted" long ago. Or did I say I want to delete all damage from it ?
    What actually need a nerf its "Big game hunter", who even thought it was good idea to increase its duration from 33% to 66%? 10s reveal/constant burns, genius /s

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Yeah, remove all damage from torch. Nobody should run that trash weapon anyway. Not only does it never hit, but even if it magically does. Cleansing literally one condition will save you.
    But what other guardians has said already, you can't fit radiance into an fb build and core guard doesn't have any cover condis to actually make the stacks stick.

    I thought it was clear? I want it to do its damage over longer period of time, like other burns/conditions that were "adjusted" long ago. Or did I say I want to delete all damage from it ?
    What actually need a nerf its "Big game hunter", who even thought it was good idea to increase its duration from 33% to 66%? 10s reveal/constant burns, genius /s

    I know you didn't say that. And I never said you did.

    I'm saying you might as well remove all the damage, as it will make absolutely no difference to the weapons viability. If anything, I would remove 2 stacks of burning and add a long lasting cripple and weakness to it.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Yeah, remove all damage from torch. Nobody should run that trash weapon anyway. Not only does it never hit, but even if it magically does. Cleansing literally one condition will save you.

    But what other guardians has said already, you can't fit radiance into an fb build and core guard doesn't have any cover condis to actually make the stacks stick.

    I'm sure Ram can fit radiance into fb

    He runs zeal and spirit sword.

    ~ God Tier Guardian