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Strike wont make me raid


Zzik.5873

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Strikes were never going to get people to raid. ANet are like a toddler in MMO-basics. An easy mode for casuals is the norm now but ANet didn't get the memo just like proper queue system for instances.

Its a shame because probably so few people actually see raids and they don't see it as a great return on investment. If they just implement a LFR then 90% of players will queue into it if all they have to do is press a button and do a couple ez mechanics and see the story. I bet the public option for strikes is very popular for example.

Then the content isn't "wasted" and THIS is what gets people to move onto pugging normal, heroic, etc. in WoW. Sure, most will probably stick to LFR which is fine, but you do get quite a few new raiders and in the end what does it matter if everyone gets to see the content you will still have your casuals and hardcores.

Strikes are so disconnected with raids its silly.

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So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

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Raids won't interest me until repetitive dmg rotations are erased from the meta. I need battle mechanics to be more of a constant thing, lower hp pool but make bosses harder, make it so top damage isn't someone with "standing in one place" damage meta. Instead, make it so top damage are those who get in their big attacks while surviving. Reduce reliance on healers or tanks for group survival and instead make healing and tanks save individuals instead of bulk healing.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

It's not the content. Seriously, for the vast majority of players, it's not the content that turns them off. It's the constant lecturing about how their build is inferior, or they're not playing the way their brother's sister's cousin plays, so they must be doing it wrong. I know I won't stay in that kind of group, even if the "advice" isn't being offered to me. I'm too old for that kind of thing, and I've seen way too much of it over the years to think, or believe "but it doesn't happen here". I saw the thread where they wanted to be able to view people's gear before entering a raid, so they could kick 'em before it started.

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

It's not the content. Seriously, for the vast majority of players, it's not the content that turns them off. It's the constant lecturing about how their build is inferior, or they're not playing the way their brother's sister's cousin plays, so they must be doing it wrong. I know I won't stay in that kind of group, even if the "advice" isn't being offered to me. I'm too old for that kind of thing, and I've seen way too much of it over the years to think, or believe "but it doesn't happen here". I saw the thread where they wanted to be able to view people's gear before entering a raid, so they could kick 'em before it started.

The thing is that these "bad apples" have a really good point. Weaker, maybe not as familiar groups, will struggle way too much. If one of them isn't pulling their own weight, it will cost everybody. Asking for top DPS is ridiculous and not needed, but some strong builds and a faint idea of how to play them simply are requirements and there is no way around it. People NEED to show this much interest in finishing it, it's the least anybody could ask for. Which is all the more surprising to me, because people ARE willing to run strong builds and classes when they are needed in strikes. I know for a fact many of these people never raided, so the interest to "play well" is definitely there.

Edit:To be fair though, most of that is the fact strikes don't take 30 minutes to set up. Raids have a couple attempts, then the first guy has to "go" and be online for another 5 hours doing meta events and you are back to waiting, then another guy forgot his pizza and now his house is on fire etc. The necessary time investment is the biggest hurdle and it is true, strikes will not change that one bit.

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@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

It's not the content. Seriously, for the vast majority of players, it's not the content that turns them off. It's the constant lecturing about how their build is inferior, or they're not playing the way their brother's sister's cousin plays, so they must be doing it wrong. I know I won't stay in that kind of group, even if the "advice" isn't being offered to me. I'm too old for that kind of thing, and I've seen way too much of it over the years to think, or believe "but it doesn't happen here". I saw the thread where they wanted to be able to view people's gear before entering a raid, so they could kick 'em before it started.

Thing is that this is really not a big invest when it comes to gear, we are talking about endame content here. For end game is it really too much to ask a player to spend 50-100 gold for exotic gear from trading post and fix their traits and skills? That is usually the biggest barrier to get into end game group content, but once a player gets the proper exotic gear raids and strikes are really easy to jump into.

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Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics
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@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics

Yeah, then we also have power DD which can be a bit harder to master, but no matter how much fails your rotation has, dps will still be ok as most of your sustained dps comes from auto attack.

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@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics

As other have said, devs have missed the mark. Doing strikes is not going to entice players to raid. Players dont want to raid because of many things:

  • time commitment
  • min maxing/focus on trinity
  • voice comms rwquiremrnts
  • forced to use certain builds
  • elitism (real and perceived)

Doing strikes doesn't automagicallty fix these. All strikes demonstrate is that players do want to enjoy 10 man fights if the tuning is at a casual level.

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I played only the "Lair of the Snowman" at Wintersday. Still in LS3 working myself through the old content. I like in that strike Missoin (I guess the others later in the story have a same setup) that it had a public mode (no elitists searching for parties just random and lots of people available were there) and that it was short. (Well still a bit long with some grindy boring trash mobs that you could not just 1-shot.)

Raids being any longer than the average strike mission would be a turn-off for me. If they took about the same amount of time as strike missions and had a public mode ... I'd do them. (But then they wouldn't be raids anymore. That's why there are the strike missions atm.)

I don't think they are here to get peope to raid. They are meant as replacement because reaids are mor for hardcore players (not a big amount of players are that type in GW2 since they mostly prefer to play other MMO). So I'd hope for more strike missions less raids in the future. (Maybe they "finished" raids like with dungeons and won't add more.)

If that stuff were at least fun ... but playing a very long time in that content (and maybe having to repeat it for achievements or legendaries) ... getting boring when you can do other stuff in the game. I try do do most stuff only once unless it is low amount of grinding (doing it "a few times").

I mean: Why should anyone do it more than once? You can do other stuff that you still have to complete. (If everything completed then do PvP for real fun instead of the scripted mobs.)

Edit: To summarize what I don't like at raids:Having to search for a party as noob when most people playing raids are actually expecting you to be elitist playing meta at 100 percent efficiency. (I don't think LFG tool is really helping there. They are more "selling raids there". :D)Raids taking a long time.Boring mobs outside of bosses to make it boring and increase the "play time" until you get to a boss that might be funA fun boss that might get boring once you have fought him a few times and have "mastered" how to kill him (I would not "grind" for legendary insights and stuff probably only doing it for the main achievements that can be done in a few playthroughs and then "every now and then" when I'm in the mood ... trying on different classes/professions maybe)

So "instanced direct boss encounters" with an lfg tool (like strike mission "public" mode but without trash mobs and directly only the final encounter) would be the thing I'd like most. Strike missions something I can be okay with. Raids ... no.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:Strike have an important goal to give players a ladder to practice before reaching raid, because the dev said there are significant differences in average dps between open PvE and raid. In a sense Strike is for people who already want to get into raid but want a stepwise approach before starting wing 1, if you're not interested in group content where dps is part of the challenge, then Strike is simply not targeting you.

This is literally the easiest build there is that can consistently make high dps in strike/raid. Just spam every skill behind/beside boss except F1, skill 3 and heal...Sure its not top, but it also doesn't take much effort to score decent spot in raid as dps and allows players to focus on mechanics

As other have said, devs have missed the mark. Doing strikes is not going to entice players to raid. Players dont want to raid because of many things:
  • time commitment
  • min maxing/focus on trinity
  • voice comms rwquiremrnts
  • forced to use certain builds
  • elitism (real and perceived)

Doing strikes doesn't automagicallty fix these. All strikes demonstrate is that players do want to enjoy 10 man fights if the tuning is at a casual level.

I guess we will have to wait and see then.

It's hard to make a judgement call here unless one has access to internal metrics of player behavior. If a significant amount of the player base, significant as in enough as far as the developers are concerned, takes a liking to strikes and move on to raids. Those content types will see support. If not, then these modes will not see continued support.

The devs have only missed the mark if this content sees absolutely no play. It does not mean that every player HAS to play the content, and I doubt this was ever intended. If this content is not to your liking, well as mentioned, then you were not the target group. If the content sees play by a vast majority of players, you might even be among a niche group eventually.

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I agree with this! Strikes don't make me Raid. I enjoy Strikes compared to Raids because they are more challenging than normal content, but not as hard as raids. This means even if I don't have much free time I can do Strikes and enjoy the game without feeling any pressure to success (from teammates, guildmates, etc.) or to be active~present at specific times of my life. The problem I am thinking of quiting Strikes too is... the rewards. I believe Anet should upgrade the rewards and combine Legendary Armors' materials (or future legendary weapons'/trinkets' materials) with the Strikes. If they do this, they will keep me active surely

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

It's not the content. Seriously, for the vast majority of players, it's not the content that turns them off. It's the constant lecturing about how their build is inferior, or they're not playing the way their brother's sister's cousin plays, so they must be doing it wrong. I know I won't stay in that kind of group, even if the "advice" isn't being offered to me. I'm too old for that kind of thing, and I've seen way too much of it over the years to think, or believe "but it doesn't happen here". I saw the thread where they wanted to be able to view people's gear before entering a raid, so they could kick 'em before it started.

The thing is that these "bad apples" have a really good point. Weaker, maybe not as familiar groups, will struggle way too much. If one of them isn't pulling their own weight, it will cost everybody. Asking for top DPS is ridiculous and not needed, but some strong builds and a faint idea of how to play them simply are requirements and there is no way around it. People NEED to show this much interest in finishing it, it's the least anybody could ask for. Which is all the more surprising to me, because people ARE willing to run strong builds and classes when they are needed in strikes. I know for a fact many of these people never raided, so the interest to "play well" is definitely there.

Edit:To be fair though, most of that is the fact strikes don't take 30 minutes to set up. Raids have a couple attempts, then the first guy has to "go" and be online for another 5 hours doing meta events and you are back to waiting, then another guy forgot his pizza and now his house is on fire etc. The necessary time investment is the biggest hurdle and it is true, strikes will not change that one bit.

The thing is that you really only learn group dynamics in a small group setting in small group settings. The really hardcore would likely get in small groups for OW stuff to practice it. They'd be reading everything they could find on their spec, to see how they can squeeze every drop of efficiency out of it, etc. etc. They could, in fact, develop the next FotM, but since it's not "the meta", they'll be ridiculed and rejected, unless they're well known for coming up with these new builds. Now, this doesn't cover Joe Casual, that's maybe just starting out wanting to "up their game". Then they get in a group, and these "bad apples" turn them off of trying to get into it.

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:So many people I've talked to and played with are the complete opposite. Many of them told me "strikes aren't so bad" and were really surprised when they had a lot of fun beating the encounters. Don't worry, you'll stay in the majority because people will forever stay scared of group content in this game, but I am very glad that at least some will try to get into content they've been avoiding before.

It's not the content. Seriously, for the vast majority of players, it's not the content that turns them off. It's the constant lecturing about how their build is inferior, or they're not playing the way their brother's sister's cousin plays, so they must be doing it wrong. I know I won't stay in that kind of group, even if the "advice" isn't being offered to me. I'm too old for that kind of thing, and I've seen way too much of it over the years to think, or believe "but it doesn't happen here". I saw the thread where they wanted to be able to view people's gear before entering a raid, so they could kick 'em before it started.

Thing is that this is really not a big invest when it comes to gear, we are talking about endame content here. For end game is it really too much to ask a player to spend 50-100 gold for exotic gear from trading post and fix their traits and skills? That is usually the biggest barrier to get into end game group content, but once a player gets the proper exotic gear raids and strikes are really easy to jump into.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. I've seen what players with BiS gear can look like in content where that matters. I've seen them be the one playing the "Elite" card, only to discover as the content progresses that they either bought, or were carried to that gear. It doesn't matter if you have BiS gear and the best rotations in the world, if you don't understand the basic mechanics you're a detriment to the group, and when it comes to endgame, those players aren't having it. At least, to be clear here, the ones that want to peek through your virtual windows to make sure your gear is up to snuff aren't having it. As I mentioned in the post above, I've been a progression raider. I have Master Mode and NiM trophies hanging on the walls of my SHs in swtor. I've been a tank, a healer, and a DPS in all of that content. I was willing to get the gear, and the rotations to "git gud" at it, and I did. But it's because I wanted to, and had the resources. Up until yesterday, I hadn't had 100 gold all at once. I've spent well over a million, according to the achievement that popped yesterday, but I've not had it there.

Now maybe it's simply because I'm far too sporadic in my play here to do the serious grind. While I've got mats together to start on Ascended gear, I'm not dedicated to getting it together, and, to balance that, I'm not looking to get into endgame raiding either. This quarantine has had no affect on my normal day to day, because it's the way I've been living for the last 15 years. For me, however, it's chronic migraines and severe sensitivity to light. So the flashy stuff that goes on has locked me out of being anything like dedicated to it. I had to walk away from Tera for that very reason, since endgame is all about that, with none of the filler stuff we have here. I don't want to play for three hours, and then spend three days laid up on the couch, unable to move for fear of my head exploding...

But I've seen how the elitists can/will act. I've seen story mode operations in swtor requiring Nightmare rated gear, and the achievement for beating the boss. I've seen the healer in DDO complain for 20 minutes about a character's HP, only to be the first one to die once they got in the quest, despite having "enough HP to run it". Now that last is probably an outlier of the endgame community, most of them will have the skill needed to survive, it's just too bad that these are the vocal representations of that crowd, and I say that having been a member of that crowd, for more than a few years. I get why it's wanted, but I also understand how that gear that is listed got listed. I also understand that anyone looking to get into it should be afforded the same considerations that were paid to everyone else when this was just getting off the ground, and not everyone had all the BiS gear. I also understand that that's not going to be the rule, but the exception. I mean, it's not like we had a thread insisting that everyone should run this rigorous 80 level tutorial so that they could "git gud", right? Wait, we did have that.

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Yeah theres alot of content players don't/won't do. Idk why you need a thread telling us. Do you make threads saying you don't pvp too? It's there as an option. Strikes seem more successful and populated so many are trying strikes at least. Will it lead them to raids I doubt it. Some players just can't handle these strikes and get downed over and over even in grothmar and raven so they peak. Anyone can do the new one so hopefully anet keeps up that level and don't add more whisper/boneskinner level.

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The reason why people feel the need to say this is that Anet seemingly has the impression that people who don't raid don't just not raid because they don't want to raid, but because there's not enough of a difficulty ramp between non-raid and raid content. Which is, for the most part, wrong, if you actually listen to what people who don't raid say their actual reasons for not raiding are.

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@"Cobrakon.3108" said:Raids won't interest me until repetitive dmg rotations are erased from the meta. I need battle mechanics to be more of a constant thing, lower hp pool but make bosses harder, make it so top damage isn't someone with "standing in one place" damage meta. Instead, make it so top damage are those who get in their big attacks while surviving. Reduce reliance on healers or tanks for group survival and instead make healing and tanks save individuals instead of bulk healing.

This, so much. I want lower hp, fighting game or TPS style NPC's, maybe even with stomping mechanics like those old nightmare courts enemies from season 1. Smaller more dangerous enemies similar to the player.

If anything, this recent story strike mission just reinforced how much I dislike the format - I found it very boring, and an excessive amount of time running around doing menial tasks.

Fractals are equally dull, but at least they are shorter with the occasional fun mechanic.

But the thing is, my perspective is that all instanced pve is only for the rewards - it's not content I find enjoyable for the gameplay, only for the shinies at the end. Eg I farmed fractals for ad infinitum last year but haven't touched them since because the gameplay isn't fun unless I want to get some reward.

Actually that goes for large scale open world bosses also - eg drakkar... All of them are interesting once, then purely for the reward. Massaging down a million hp 0.1% at a time is not my idea of fun.

I still have no intention of touching raids, would sooner play a different game.

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