A contrast in shift of Difficulty — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A contrast in shift of Difficulty

Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 25, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Come three months after the launch of Guild Wars 2, I distinctly remember asking myself, "when do I get to the fun part?" Fast forward about a couple of weeks in and I get to lvl 80, I become excited to finally go do that AC run I failed at a week ago. And as time goes by I keep looking for an answer as to what to do now that I'm level capped.

Normally I thought to myself there would be some secret dungeon or raid I wasn't aware of but no, all you had to deal with was the world, PvP, and WvW, which is something I didn't touch.

So one day in Lion's Arch I'm greeted with the first advertisement for my first WvW guild. I get introduced to the reality of WvW and things like Red Guard, and the challenge was seemingly present in chunks.

However the one thing I've always hated about this game was just how easy it was on the PvE side of things. The most present challenges available during those days were the Ahra, CoF, and CoE dungeons which if given the ability were not actually more than just dungeons.

I wanted to raid and WvW was that thing that quelled my satisfaction. Boredom drove me to quit as ANET pushed out content. Living story season one with Scarlett came, and her character as I recall was really hateable. But the challenge in PvE was there. And after she attacked Lion's Arch, that on its own was challenging to go through.

Sure there were fractals but they were the same ones we've done for an eternity. And they weren't as spread out in options as they are today, in fact there were like only 6 and if you've done them once, at the time you never really wanted to do them again because the reward you have today weren't really there.

And as the waves of living story come out I can't help but notice that the boredom in PvE was still there. As a skilled WvW fight guild player, everything that was PvE was simply too easy, like a walk in the park.

The only thing we had at the time to deal with were massive meat shields which was ANETs brilliant idea at the "harder content we asked for". This was the mordremoth living story stuff. Just mundane massive meat shield.

Come the first raid and this is it, a real challenge, the Vale Guardian. Finally a challenge worthy of the gods. The new expansion too was amazing because enemies stopped being these absurd massive meat shields and in turn turned into mechanic heavy opponents. Things weren't boring anymore. New skills, new specs, gliding, it made the game more interesting on the oven side of things.

However during my first time raiding I greatly underestimated how hard it was going to be. Mind you I really took lengthy breaks from the game because of how boring it was. When I realized what raiding was actually like, a couple of things greatly puzzled me. The first is that there wasn't any back story as to why we were going to kill the Vale Guardian. The story didn't make sense, and there's nothing that told me to go do this task for the special forces.The second thing was the lack of reasonable rewards; see if you raid in another game there would be some sort of special loot or something but instead you get exotics and a couple of gold? No thanks.

This mentality kept me away from raiding even during alot of the longevity of PoF. Why go through this challenge to get really nothing in return? The incentive wasn't really there. I didn't even want legendary armor because I didn't really need it. After all, all I needed was my minstrel and berserker ascended armor sets so why bother doing all of that to inconvenience myself.

And besides it was incredibly challenging to find a raiding guild at the time. You could spend hours and hours spamming map chat to look for one that did any raids with a silent response. And in reality Elitism was rampant in raiding, to the point where you weren't taken in by any guild. I managed after a week of searching to land a training group and practiced a set of training bosses for weeks and I loved it. The problem is that they were the same bosses, the same order, the same strategy, it eventually became mundane. But it gave me joy to fail and fail and fail again for the first time and notice that as I was failing in PvE I made actual progress.

Now that I come back to the game in March 2020, I feel energetic to get back into action and finish what I started, I've even managed to find groups for training and an actual guild that does static raiding. I want to get through the content raids and have downed two new bosses, amazingly enough through much failure. But that's what I want. I want that challenge, it is actually fun to die with a solidified purpose in gw2 and achieve something noteworthy.

Fractals have even become harder and I'm getting into that too, it's actually 10x more rewarding than it used to be 5 years ago. Just like all the new content, just like everything new.

I'm hoping they ramp up the challenge in the metas and everything else. It's a huge shift from the old days where warriors can hop into Arah and clear a wing solo, to now having to focus on stressful mechanics in strike missions and raids.

I really genuinely hope ANET continues to push out more raids and more involvement for the player into the stories leading into them. Like something unique, like say once you finish the living world story, there's another one that builds up so you have an item that works inside of the raid or something unique to say "oh this is why I'm here" the next time I'm in a raid. I love the challenge and it's good to finally have access to a variety. In short terms, more raids!

The reason I say all of this is to encourage players saying content is too hard to take a closer look at the content from the old days and really question yourself how easy you want things to be. Because I have to tell you, we went from literally not having to dodge roll enemies to be successful to actually having to. There's too many people discouraged by a bad experience but really I implore you to keep trying. And if realistically you're not having fun with a good challenge, then don't do it. But don't go off antagonizing people who actually give them a shot, because given ANETs past, it is a blessing to actually have one.

I see this a lot, people are just spreading confirmation bias amongst each other to not do more challenging stuff because of their bad experiences. And I see this as people agreeing with each other to be bored and not have fun. Maybe look at it from another angle, maybe the person wasn't capable of learning from their mistakes, maybe the person doesn't actually know how to play the game more efficiently. Be skeptical of people trying to remove yourself from actual fun, including yourself. Remember, being given a challenge in Guild Wars 2 is an actual blessing from ANET, so appreciate it and look at it as an angle as if you're to do something great like climbing mount Everest.

Comments

  • Thank you , you're a helpful player :)
    Sad i have 6fps so no hard content for me xD

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doing Arah explorable with no guides and people that just got their first character to 80 equipped with mostly green/yellow gear because no one could afford anything else, that was difficult. Today you sneeze at enemies and they die pfff.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Doing Arah explorable with no guides and people that just got their first character to 80 equipped with mostly green/yellow gear because no one could afford anything else, that was difficult. Today you sneeze at enemies and they die pfff.

    Is that a covid-19 joke?

    but aye... i do believe some mobs are just too easy in most areas to fight.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2020

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Doing Arah explorable with no guides and people that just got their first character to 80 equipped with mostly green/yellow gear because no one could afford anything else, that was difficult. Today you sneeze at enemies and they die pfff.

    Is that a covid-19 joke?

    but aye... i do believe some mobs are just too easy in most areas to fight.

    Its called a common phrase and if you want to get sensetive then I would imagine one would be more offended over the other 300,000+ that die every year in normal influenza, but I digress.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Aridon.8362 said:

    ~SNIP~

    You play the content you like and let the rest of us play the content that we like, not everyone finds the same things as "FUN", everyone has their own fun factor, and for a majority (over 50%) of the player base, Open World PvE is fun for them. It's also less time consuming, allows you to hop in and out as often as you like and take breaks from playing for long periods of time and not get left behind.

    Perhaps you don't remember, but when this game first launched everyone complained about Orr being too difficult because of mob density, that you couldn't walk two feet without getting stunned, pulled, etc., etc.,...and 3 months or so after release they culled over 2/3's of the mobs there and made it trivial. I think if they had left the original mob count there it wouldn't have been so bad once people realized you actually had to play the game a bit to advance, but no, people wanted to be able to run through Zaitan's doorstep without having to fight your way there.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I had my fun raiding in other games. It is indeed rewarding content. But I play this game to get away from that, it is not for me anymore. I do hope Anet adds that content for those who still like it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andy.5981 said:
    It would be a very sad day if the game only catered for the more hardcore players.

    It’s a sad day when a developer only caters to a subset of its player base. It doesn’t matter if it’s casual or hardcore.

    However increasing zone / creature / open world difficulty isn't the way forward. People want to be entertained, they certainly dont want to be frustrated.

    Not for existing maps but future maps and content should continue to gradually get more difficult and challenging. That’s typically how most other games operate. Something being difficult and challenging doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not entertaining.

  • Andy.5981Andy.5981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Andy.5981 said:
    It would be a very sad day if the game only catered for the more hardcore players.

    It’s a sad day when a developer only caters to a subset of its player base. It doesn’t matter if it’s casual or hardcore.

    However increasing zone / creature / open world difficulty isn't the way forward. People want to be entertained, they certainly dont want to be frustrated.

    Not for existing maps but future maps and content should continue to gradually get more difficult and challenging. That’s typically how most other games operate. Something being difficult and challenging doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not entertaining.

    I would agree, concentrating on one at the expense of the other isn't a good idea. GW2 I believe has the right balance.

    Whilst I have respect your opinion on your second point, in my opinion you are wrong.

    Future maps should not get more difficult. They should be fun to play and provide a reasonable challenge, but if you raise difficulty at some point someone will not be able to complete the content of that map due to lack of players. It is already happening to some people at quieter times. Not everyone lives in Europe or America.

    GW2 isn't most other games and has always prided itself on doing things differently. Going the same route as most other games I believe would alienate the vast majority of the player base.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Andy.5981 said:
    It would be a very sad day if the game only catered for the more hardcore players.

    It’s a sad day when a developer only caters to a subset of its player base. It doesn’t matter if it’s casual or hardcore.

    However increasing zone / creature / open world difficulty isn't the way forward. People want to be entertained, they certainly dont want to be frustrated.

    Not for existing maps but future maps and content should continue to gradually get more difficult and challenging. That’s typically how most other games operate. Something being difficult and challenging doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not entertaining.

    I would agree, concentrating on one at the expense of the other isn't a good idea. GW2 I believe has the right balance.

    Whilst I have respect your opinion on your second point, in my opinion you are wrong.

    Future maps should not get more difficult. They should be fun to play and provide a reasonable challenge, but if you raise difficulty at some point someone will not be able to complete the content of that map due to lack of players. It is already happening to some people at quieter times. Not everyone lives in Europe or America.

    GW2 isn't most other games and has always prided itself on doing things differently. Going the same route as most other games I believe would alienate the vast majority of the player base.

    Players that play a game naturally get better the more they play. This is true for pretty much all games. This is why the difficulty should increase for newer content. Also please realize that by challenging, I don’t mean Dark Souls level so please don’t take it to that extreme.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    Perhaps in my array of paragraphs my point wasn't clear. I wasn't saying to do harder content. I was just saying to stop antagonizing people who do harder content. Just as you all like to cater yourselves to easier stuff, don't downplay people who do harder stuff.

    Just because you like easier content doesn't mean ANET should have to create the game to just let you get by pressing 1 to attack. In fact although a large percentage of posters on this thread is wanting more easier gameplay, there was actually a poll done earlier about the difficulty of the game, and in fact the majority agrees that the level of difficulty of the game is where it should be or could actually be much harder. Here's the poll if you don't believe me.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97399/in-your-opinion-is-gw2-too-hard/p1

    In essence I'm an advocate for the majority. Simply to close this off if you don't want to do harder content then don't. But don't yell and scream at ANET for not wanting to push the game in your boring direction.

  • Guild wars 2 has actually warped my sense of difficulty in games. It's so bad that i'm shocked when I lose in a normal single player game. Or I'm shocked whenever I die in the open world.

    Devs have stated in the past one of the core reasons why their content leans on the easy side is because the dps of an experienced (or informed) player vs A
    relatively inexperienced/uninformed player is huge. 10x the damage, which is just strait up impossible to balance between the 2.

  • Rukia.4802Rukia.4802 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    Guild wars 2 has actually warped my sense of difficulty in games. It's so bad that i'm shocked when I lose in a normal single player game. Or I'm shocked whenever I die in the open world.

    Devs have stated in the past one of the core reasons why their content leans on the easy side is because the dps of an experienced (or informed) player vs A
    relatively inexperienced/uninformed player is huge. 10x the damage, which is just strait up impossible to balance between the 2.

    Well you aren't punished or taught anything for failing even the basic story repeatedly, just revive and continue. Very differnt from GW1 where its git gud or git rekt. Same for any MMO.. the games literally cater to that easy mentality and then its surprise pikachu face when you get anything challenging because you've been conditioned to the opposite. I blame developers. It doesn't take a genius to know you need different difficulty levels of the same content in MMOs nowadays or only a very small minority will do them. I grew up with games being 'hard' so I have alway done that content but I get why casuals don't.

    You don't advertise an extremely casual game then add some 1 difficulty raid level content expecting casuals to do it in organized groups. That just alienates your casuals and only makes the minority happy which are the only ones to see that content then devs see it as a waste of time I'm sure. I wish they would just cater to both sides and add easy/norm in every raid, like the strike public version with daily reward. In GW1 basically every area had the same difficulty curve at least that's how it felt to me. Sure dungeons were harder but it wasn't much you haven't seen before. By that time you know if you don't pull a group correctly or make a big mistake you are screwed.

    You use same strategy in your starter zone than in end game, the GW1 learning experience was really good. GW2 devs thought 1 was too hard and wasn't friendly to casuals which I disagree with but this is what happens when you remove the most basic prefrontal cortex requirement in most of your game. 1 was still very relaxing and quite easy in many areas, you just weren't encouraged to run in all rambo style and pwn everything spamming 1 skill. Casual design has owned MMO development for many years now, we are just dusty relics of the past.

    I think the difficulty is fine in instances personally, but overland is just all over the kitten place it goes from ez to 1shot back to ez back to 1shots all the time like you never know what to expect in GW2 maps and it doesn't seem to be teaching anyone anything. I think the downed state is too much of a carry. And yes you have a big point with dps, that is the fault of their stat system I mean anyone can be running around in t/v/h gear and do 0 dmg. They should have stuck with GW1 attributes and not bother with stats, that was a horrible idea and why GW1 was able to be balanced much better.

    GW2 need list:
    GW1 Assassin elite spec
    Option to hide party/squad nameplate
    Particle effect slider/ability to turn friendly player effects off

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Before they waste money and developer time to create more raids for the maybe top 5% of the playerbase, they should change accessibility to currently existing raids by adding multiple difficulties.
    Some people won't bother getting better or physiologically can't get better. Those people should not be deprived of content.
    It's unfathomable how Arenanet didn't even bother to consider multiple difficulties.
    Even WoW, the (sometimes hotly debated) prime example of raiding, added multiple difficulties to increase raid participation and justify spending so much money on creating the arguably best content of the game.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Before they waste money and developer time to create more raids for the maybe top 5% of the playerbase, they should change accessibility to currently existing raids by adding multiple difficulties.
    Some people won't bother getting better or physiologically can't get better. Those people should not be deprived of content.
    It's unfathomable how Arenanet didn't even bother to consider multiple difficulties.
    Even WoW, the (sometimes hotly debated) prime example of raiding, added multiple difficulties to increase raid participation and justify spending so much money on creating the arguably best content of the game.

    There has to be a reward or something that's taken away in that case. Like for example, in the latest story the part where you know who dies, you don't get to do that. Instead you take the elevator out and don't actually see that part of the story.

    I say this because I'm letting you know that casuals are actually a minority. The people who actually do harder content like WvW and PvP, Fractals, and other said content heavily outweigh casuals as a whole. If you're going to make the game unfair something has to be taken away by those who don't try. In wow, it's viable gear that's taken away, in PvP you'd be a free kill, and so on. There's literally hundreds of thousands of people who would spend hours doing the Istan farm just to get what they want, and even that isn't entirely casual on its own.

    Saying that only the top 5% actually do challenging content is a delusion that is cultivated on this forum. Do you truly believe in every update people just cross their arms and leave content alone after losing one time?

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    I say this because I'm letting you know that casuals are actually a minority. The people who actually do harder content like WvW and PvP, Fractals, and other said content heavily outweigh casuals as a whole.

    Citation please.

    Go to Lion's Arch and literally ask all the people sitting at the bank.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    I say this because I'm letting you know that casuals are actually a minority. The people who actually do harder content like WvW and PvP, Fractals, and other said content heavily outweigh casuals as a whole.

    Citation please.

    Go to Lion's Arch and literally ask all the people sitting at the bank.

    That's not proof of your statement.

    And all people are just standing in place at EotN and all the people in the aerodome and in front of the fractal portal, and all the people making queues for the battlegrounds in WvW they're just there doing nothing? You think they're there to just roleplay? Look at all the people in Heart of the mists, are simply just standing there to do nothing, just admire the scenery? Even the most mundane of all the guilds I've been in, in the entirety of my time playing this do fractals. Just acknowledge that you're actually the 5% who want easier content. You can play the game however you want but at the end of the day, the majority of players aren't playing for the theme park aspect you're thinking you're playing in.

    Literally you can go to an aerodome and you'll see it full of players. It's not as minute as you think it is. In fact a lot of those players have effects to their armors that often cause them to be walking lag spikes.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    I think it's pretty safe to assume the vast majority of players don't actually want raid-level challenges, the ones that demand self-improvement. I think most people are satisfied with a much lower level, just enough to feel a sense of accomplishment for winning. You and I (and the rest of us who raid) might relish higher challenges, but there are still a lot of people who play this game who don't even like the idea of dps meters to measure performance.

    I could say more, but I'll get right to it - there really seems to be no point in asking people to see challenging content as some kind of "blessing." Those of us who want it, like you, will find ways to do it. The rest have every right to see that level of challenge as a waste of time.

    There's also ones like me that don't have the time or social network to setup a raid with a consistent 10 man group. That's my ONLY barrier to raids. (I work nights in NA). I have the ability and the game experience to do them, just not the people who share the same schedule and have the length of time to learn it.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    Perhaps in my array of paragraphs my point wasn't clear. I wasn't saying to do harder content. I was just saying to stop antagonizing people who do harder content. Just as you all like to cater yourselves to easier stuff, don't downplay people who do harder stuff.

    In essence I'm an advocate for the majority. Simply to close this off if you don't want to do harder content then don't. But don't yell and scream at ANET for not wanting to push the game in your boring direction.

    Personally I don't hate Justin Bieber , but i adore Ricky Martin for his hip moves . I wouldn't stoop so low and ''yell'' at Youtube , for promoting Justin Bieber's video songs in the front page . I will not simply listen to them .

    Its like the everlasting question , of which company has the best MMo . The fans from each side , are the ones causing this drama while trying to intermingle .
    Just ... stay in the corner and don't interact with each other , thus avoiding antagonization .

    Dont Over Extent - Piken Square
    BrB Until Notice Sire - Desolation

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    Perhaps in my array of paragraphs my point wasn't clear. I wasn't saying to do harder content. I was just saying to stop antagonizing people who do harder content. Just as you all like to cater yourselves to easier stuff, don't downplay people who do harder stuff.

    In essence I'm an advocate for the majority. Simply to close this off if you don't want to do harder content then don't. But don't yell and scream at ANET for not wanting to push the game in your boring direction.

    Personally I don't hate Justin Bieber , but i adore Ricky Martin for his hip moves . I wouldn't stoop so low and ''yell'' at Youtube , for promoting Justin Bieber's video songs in the front page . I will not simply listen to them .

    Its like the everlasting question , of which company has the best MMo . The fans from each side , are the ones causing this drama while trying to intermingle .
    Just ... stay in the corner and don't interact with each other .

    That analogy is both poor and insulting. That deduction is also poor and insulting.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    So, you don't actually have any proof other than anecdotal. Ok, I understand now.

    I literally just gave you every visible example. You're just a false hope fallacy trying to exert confirmation bias.

    And no you don't understand, because you can't you're clearly incapable of actually going through the portals to the places I mentioned and actually interacting with people in them.

    And I see now arguing with you is like arguing with a useless wall.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As for the poll in that other thread, everyone already knows that the forums represent a very small sub-set of the playerbase, so any forums-based poll is inherently flawed as they don't provide a reliable sample size. It doesn't prove anything.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Look, just because I disagree with your premise and ask you to back up your claims doesn't mean that you can personally attack me. You know nothing about me, so please stop.

    You have outright dismissed any discussion of your own topic by claiming that your position is valid and then attack anyone who disagrees with you.. I never once advocated the position against your claim; rather, I only asked you to prove yours. Which you can't. Because you don't have the data. Only Anet has the data.

    I can too personally attack when you're trying to make me appear as if I'm being foolish. And with all due respect, your opinion, and all the data can never actually replace experience.

  • Thorstienn.1642Thorstienn.1642 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    Boredom drove me to quit as ANET pushed out contente
    Mind you I really took lengthy breaks from the game because of how boring it was.

    This mentality kept me away from raiding even during alot of the longevity of PoF. Why go through this challenge to get really nothing in return?

    The problem is that they were the same bosses, the same order, the same strategy, it eventually became mundane.

    Now that I come back to the game in March 2020

    Fractals have even become harder and I'm getting into that too, it's actually 10x more rewarding than it used to be 5 years ago.

    But don't go off antagonizing people who actually give them a shot, because given ANETs past, it is a blessing to actually have one.

    So how long were you gone for exactly? How long till you get bored of new "hard" content, that needs to be rewarding as difficulty is not it's own reward, and need more before leaving?

    Who should Anet cater to?

    Yes, I cherry picked lines, but they stood out to me.

    It all reads as "the game was and mostly still is boring. A 1 armed mentally challenged monkey could complete its content. So I quit. I came back for raids, but loot wasn't worth the effort. Quit. Back again, some content is harder now and I like it, but the forums are filled with cry babies saying it's too hard as they need to press more buttons than 1 now. They should stop crying and like the new harder things I like, or at least stop crying."

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 4:10AM

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Andy.5981 said:
    It would be a very sad day if the game only catered for the more hardcore players.

    It’s a sad day when a developer only caters to a subset of its player base. It doesn’t matter if it’s casual or hardcore.

    However increasing zone / creature / open world difficulty isn't the way forward. People want to be entertained, they certainly dont want to be frustrated.

    Not for existing maps but future maps and content should continue to gradually get more difficult and challenging. That’s typically how most other games operate. Something being difficult and challenging doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s not entertaining.

    I would agree, concentrating on one at the expense of the other isn't a good idea. GW2 I believe has the right balance.

    Considering the game gets hyper casual content every ~3 months and that the last piece of challenging 5 man content with the Shattered Observatory CM was almost 3 years ago, with the last proper challenging 10 man content in Wing 7 having been 9 months ago, I don't quite agree on the balance being right there.

    Add to that the fact that Arc templates added a lot of replayability and horizontal progression for hardcore players by allowing them to further and further broaden their horizons with a vast amount of encounter specific builds they were able to play, which was actually removed and replaced by anets incredibly limited and hyper monitized Loadouts, if anything hardcore players in a sense lost content and replayability over the last year or so.

    Sure we have Strikes now, which range from laughable solo content with the Icebrood Construct to alright group boss fights with Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag, but still, that's less than an hour of casual to semi-hardcore content competing with hours and hours of hyper casual content with multiple LW releases, and on the other hand zero proper hardcore content, be it solo or group.

    I imagine your perception of the balance between hyper casual and hardcore content would be different if the last LW release had been 3 years ago, with some side stories once per year, while a new Raid Wing or Fractal CM's came out every 2-3 months.

    @Andy.5981 said:

    Whilst I have respect your opinion on your second point, in my opinion you are wrong.

    Future maps should not get more difficult. They should be fun to play and provide a reasonable challenge, but if you raise difficulty at some point someone will not be able to complete the content of that map due to lack of players. It is already happening to some people at quieter times. Not everyone lives in Europe or America.

    GW2 isn't most other games and has always prided itself on doing things differently. Going the same route as most other games I believe would alienate the vast majority of the player base.

    The reason I can't take the argument of if Open World and such becomes more difficult people won't be able to keep up and quit quite seriously is because in the current games state, literally 90% of open world mobs can be killed by pressing a single semi spammable button on a proper build for pretty much all professions, while they in turn take up to half a minute to kill you while being afk.
    That doesn't sound reasonable for max level post 2 expansions content.
    I'm not saying hyper casual content shouldn't exist, not at all, but currently it makes up the absolute vast majority of the content available, a sizeable amount of it not even including any combat and consisting of just running around and pressing F on things at the worst of times (achievements and story), and even big story bads which you can burst down in 10 seconds at the best of times.

    Currently the majority of the game isn't fun for a lot of people because it doesn't provide a reasonable amount of challenge and rather feels like playing a single player game with god mode cheats on. It's fun for a bit, sure, but rather quickly you start asking yourself what the point of it is.
    Sitting there disappointed and baffled after every story boss that got instantly nuked asking yourself "..wait, that was actually the boss, that was it?" for years, while craved content drops like Fractal CM's or Raids get rarer and rarer or disappear completely for years is pretty rough.

    And yes, whenever Anet tries to ramp up the difficulty a tiny bit (and quickly caves again nerfing it into the ground) there is a huge outcry of a vocal minority, but I firmly believe that would quickly die down without any action like nerfs taken due to people quickly improving in skill if they just for once have to, quickly realising it actually ain't that bad once they know what they are doing and properly engaging with the game an it's systems, realising the fun in all the mechanics the game has to offer.

    Point is, GW2 has plenty room for difficulty increases and the reason some people are struggling so much with anything remotely challenging is simply because the game never demanded of them to learn even the most basic game mechanics (like dodging, breakbars, build craft, etc.) all the way from level 1 to max level and through 2 expansions and LW content updates, unless they are the type of player willing to challenge themselves and to seek out the rare and separated away difficult content in Fractals and Raids, improving themselves.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Tanner Blackfeather.6509Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Look, just because I disagree with your premise and ask you to back up your claims doesn't mean that you can personally attack me. You know nothing about me, so please stop.

    You have outright dismissed any discussion of your own topic by claiming that your position is valid and then attack anyone who disagrees with you.. I never once advocated the position against your claim; rather, I only asked you to prove yours. Which you can't. Because you don't have the data. Only Anet has the data.

    I can too personally attack when you're trying to make me appear as if I'm being foolish. And with all due respect, your opinion, and all the data can never actually replace experience.

    Firstly, someone "making you appear foolish" is not a justification for personal attacks.

    Besides, you manage looking foolish perfectly fine on your own.

    You make a claim, back it up with anecdotal evidence (remember: everything that isn't actual verifiable data is anecdotal), then get pissy when called on it. Making a claim regarding objective states (group X is a majority i.e. >50%) and then saying "data can not replace experience" is fundamentally foolish.

    The number of people queing means absolutely nothing for you argument without a total number of players to compare it to. Since you don't have that, you can't actually supply data supporting a claim to majority. Don't make claims you can't support - they make you look foolish.

    On top of this, we have clear statements from ANet that no more than 10% play raids. That another 40% of the playerbase would be active enough in Fractals, PvP and WvW to consider themselvs non-casuals and still not do raids seems a bit of a stretch. There are absolutely players in that category, but 40% of the population? Seems unlikely. (Note how I'm not claiming that your statement is incorrect, just that it is unsupported and that I find it improbable. See bolded above re: making claims)