[Suggestion] AFKing at spawn - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] AFKing at spawn

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  • WvW ticks in PvE / PvP maps would solve the problem as well, though it is understandable why this is not done.
    Perhaps leave the participation as-is (freeze), until you rejoin the fight? That way you could coast on your tier 6 all the way to reset, without having to rebuild it every day.

    I still think the best option is cash out NPC at spawn, which gives a participation blocker debuff (on a real time timer, so that it also counts down when not logged in).
    The participation blocker would count for the same time as full tier 6 decay to tier 3 (which is the ideal max afk time for the reward chests).
    Ignoring the reward tracks might be ok here, opinions may differ. Otherwise debuff would last for the full 6.

    It could simply invert the number of participation, continue the countdown (but now going back up to 0), it would be less profitable, as the first two tiers do not grant reward pips. Add a 20% tax if you deel the need to.

    Simple math can handle the rest, forget outnumbered if you want those you can afk without being a problem to anyone. (No queue = no problems)
    Removing outnumbered all together might be a piece in the puzzel as well, simply redistribute those pips to participation.

    Possible downsides:

    • more profitable; attempt to make it equal (or slightly less, you are getting your free time back, drop reward tracks perhaps?)
    • participation blocked; well you did just say you weren't going to play anymore. Perhaps participation could tick down the debuff instead? or you know, wait an hour.

    The downsides just do not weigh up against a large queue of people wanting to get in, being blocked by afk'ers.

    If I were in the WvW design team I would put forth these goals:

    • reduce afk behaviour (it should not be rewarding at all)
    • alter the system so the feeling of lost loot is lessened. (happens if you exit wvw and don't log back in)
    • offer a way to switch characters without having to re-queue (because sometimes you don't need X but Y, but 50 man queue)
    • stop food/utility/booster counters in spawn, because every minute counts but you still need to clear your bags
  • I"m not entirely sure why any participation should be blocked by as much as an hour after you "cash out" I've seen people say it's to discourage people from playing the system. But say cashing out gives you the minimum reward you would've received if you had afk'ed and removes all participation you had at that point. There is no real advantage over continuing to play is there? It's not like you receive extra rewards, if anything if you continued you'd receive more.

    Personally I think locking anyone out of rewards is a harsh punishment. People change their minds all the time. I could be logging off to do something, which gets cancelled. It would be very discouraging if I then knew I could go back to wvw but would not receive rewards for an hour. For people playing hours upon hours maybe this would be 'no biggie' but when you only have an hour or two that's half of your game time.

    As to people trying to get pips with minimal effort, repairing walls and gliding in to cap that one ruin over and over. You'll always have those people, and discouraging that behaviour without punishing active players is very hard. You get similar things in pve but maybe it stands out less there.

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    I"m not entirely sure why any participation should be blocked by as much as an hour after you "cash out" I've seen people say it's to discourage people from playing the system. But say cashing out gives you the minimum reward you would've received if you had afk'ed and removes all participation you had at that point. There is no real advantage over continuing to play is there? It's not like you receive extra rewards, if anything if you continued you'd receive more.

    The only possible issue I can see is a player that manages to go fairly fast (in, say, 8 minutes) to T6, then cash out. That player gets the same rewards as a 15 minutes AFK session. Then he could just log back in, spend 8 mores minutes reaching a high tier, cash out, etc.

    This is the reason why I'm for a blocking associated to a cash out option. Though I'm deeply against a punishing 1 hour block. A simple 15 minutes block would be fair and make sense, because it's the time you won by cashing out.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • @Mokuren.4069 said:
    I"m not entirely sure why any participation should be blocked by as much as an hour after you "cash out" I've seen people say it's to discourage people from playing the system. But say cashing out gives you the minimum reward you would've received if you had afk'ed and removes all participation you had at that point. There is no real advantage over continuing to play is there? It's not like you receive extra rewards, if anything if you continued you'd receive more.

    Personally I think locking anyone out of rewards is a harsh punishment. People change their minds all the time. I could be logging off to do something, which gets cancelled. It would be very discouraging if I then knew I could go back to wvw but would not receive rewards for an hour. For people playing hours upon hours maybe this would be 'no biggie' but when you only have an hour or two that's half of your game time.

    As to people trying to get pips with minimal effort, repairing walls and gliding in to cap that one ruin over and over. You'll always have those people, and discouraging that behaviour without punishing active players is very hard. You get similar things in pve but maybe it stands out less there.

    For example, if the cash out option was implemented without a lockout feature, a player could start with max T6 participation, cash out and re-enter WvW and get back to T3 participation before the time it would take for them to go from max T6 to min T3 AFK at spawn, thus double pipping. This could easily happen in EBG if your keep was under attack.

    The solution is to have a lockout feature that is as long as it takes to go from full T6 participation to min T3 participation after a cash out.

  • Here's a proposal for the participation cash out feature.

    Pips are awarded upon logout/leaving WvW.

    Pips = n*(lvl+loyalty+3rd placement)
    n is the number of skirmishes you would have finished and gotten pips for if you went AFK.

    Following a cash out, there is a lockout timer for your account that prevents acquiring participation that is equal to the time it would take a full T6 participation bar to reach zero.

    This gives some pips but not everything you would have received and the lockout prevents gaming the system aka double pipping.

    Now there no reason to AFK at spawn except to maintain your spot in the map.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point, in two different threads located on the old and new forum, Anet has said they are not going to do a cashout.

    People can do what they wish, but maybe moving on to a different issue would be good.

  • @ThomasC.1056 said:

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    I"m not entirely sure why any participation should be blocked by as much as an hour after you "cash out" I've seen people say it's to discourage people from playing the system. But say cashing out gives you the minimum reward you would've received if you had afk'ed and removes all participation you had at that point. There is no real advantage over continuing to play is there? It's not like you receive extra rewards, if anything if you continued you'd receive more.

    The only possible issue I can see is a player that manages to go fairly fast (in, say, 8 minutes) to T6, then cash out. That player gets the same rewards as a 15 minutes AFK session. Then he could just log back in, spend 8 mores minutes reaching a high tier, cash out, etc.

    This is the reason why I'm for a blocking associated to a cash out option. Though I'm deeply against a punishing 1 hour block. A simple 15 minutes block would be fair and make sense, because it's the time you won by cashing out.

    See, now that I can get, and 15 minutes would be OK I suppose, but yeah an hour just seems outrageous. :/

  • Lionwait.4815Lionwait.4815 Member ✭✭
    edited September 15, 2017

    @Mokuren.4069 said:

    @Lionwait.4815 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Lionwait.4815 said:
    I don't believe AFKing is the main problem here. Its a symptom of a bigger problem. Those that put them self's to AFK to get the little bit of a reward is a symptom and can be fixed with a one time use per skirmish pip cash out NPC. The big problem is those that choose to AFK on a map that is queued. To fix this problem I would make all territories that you're server owns put decay on participation at the end of each 5 minute match. This well incentivise people to engage enemy's in enemy territories then their own territories. This ultimately enforces those that want more rewards have to take more risks. This will spread out population balance by incentivising zones people don't commonly go to. This fix would discourage people that multi-box leaving an account to watch a fortification while playing with ally's on another account. Implementing such a fix wouldn't hamper people defending fortifications because of how participation is gained by hitting enemy's but it will hamper those that hang out in safe territories as it should. Unless a commander puts share squad participation on one person to be their scout. As for all zones being queued up you might want to think about changing servers. :open_mouth: who would of thought of that one, only a genius........ Look no further!

    Which does absolutely nothing to help with the issue of people going AFK.

    You're in luck! That this posted isn't made for your eyes alone. But to others that can understand a deeper issue at hand that gives cos to bad habits. The bad habit is the main topic of this post. With my post reply I suggest is a system to fix a cos to deter this habit.

    Right now you are just calling out fire and doing nothing to put out that fire. You shout out awareness with out giving action. Sure awareness has its place but when every one is aware then action is needed.

    1+1=2 basic math helps but advance math changes the world. Comprender?

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    Nice condescending tone you got going there. There is absolutely no need to address anyone voicing their opinion like that.
    Regardless of that though it seems to me that what you're proposing would only encourage people to flip objectives and not fortify or defend them. After all their participation will decay fast if they stick around in owned zones. Unless you're in a squad and get the commander to give you shared participation your participation would be dead pretty fast if you're scouting or fortifying objectives, after all enemy players aren't always kind enough to drop dead at your feet.
    I'm also unsure of why you feel your system would be more effective against afking than the suggested cash out option. I personally afk on low pop maps because I need my rewards. I'm by no means a rich person and every time I log off with participation left on the bar I feel it's a waste. I put in the effort to build that up after all, I deserve the reward it's worth in my opinion. Making it harder to keep that participation up would not change the fact that I feel I shouldn't log off without cashing in that reward. If anything I had to put in more effort and deserve it doubly.

    As to your changing server suggestion. Depending on what server you're matched up with you may or you may not experience queues. Last matchup my server barely had any. This matchup we have 20+ queues every night. It changes so paying to switch servers every time you get a match up that results in queues is a kitten idea. This besides the point that that person probably has friends and guildies on that server that they enjoy playing with. Personally I wouldn't leave my server for the world, unless they did as well.

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    Nice condescending tone you got going there. There is absolutely no need to address anyone voicing their opinion like that.

    An opinion has detail not one liner statements. I went in to detail to point out the flaws in his statement and I'll do the same to you and you call it condescending. Dude.. you got to stop speech policing. Most of all you flabbergast me because you are defending some one trolling another persons post. It appears to me you only some what see words and not the actions.

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    it seems to me that what you're proposing would only encourage people to flip objectives and not fortify or defend them. After all their participation will decay fast if they stick around in owned zones.

    Yes and no. If you are truly defending a fort to fortify it, the answer is no. Because that person is taking camps and escorting dolyaks to fortify fortifications. All those actions give participation. Now if you are talking about just building siege everywhere then yes you should lose out on participation because at that point you are playing with out risks and that is what I call the lazy game. My idea is proposing a idea of taking risks for rewards. Who is to stop you from escorting dolyaks and building siege for defense?

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    after all enemy players aren't always kind enough to drop dead at your feet.

    You don't have to kill them to get participation. Just hitting them sustains participation. That is why I said "Implementing such a fix wouldn't hamper people defending fortifications because of how participation is gained by hitting enemy's" As for the enemy players dropping dead at your feet is a bonus to participation.

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    I'm also unsure of why you feel your system would be more effective against afking than the suggested cash out option. I personally afk on low pop maps because I need my rewards. I'm by no means a rich person and every time I log off with participation left on the bar I feel it's a waste. I put in the effort to build that up after all, I deserve the reward it's worth in my opinion. Making it harder to keep that participation up would not change the fact that I feel I shouldn't log off without cashing in that reward. If anything I had to put in more effort and deserve it doubly.

    You don't deserve any rewards when looking back at the years of people that WvW with out such rewards. Now they give us rewards and we exonerate them for it. I'm not saying take the rewards away I'm asking for a system to use such a reward system in away to discourage bad habits. If they have to shave off some rewards to implement such a system so be it. It sure is better then people abusing the system. And I never denounced the cash out system I el·evated on it by saying; "can be fixed with a one time use per skirmish pip cash out NPC"

    @Mokuren.4069 said:
    As to your changing server suggestion. Depending on what server you're matched up with you may or you may not experience queues. Last matchup my server barely had any. This matchup we have 20+ queues every night. It changes so paying to switch servers every time you get a match up that results in queues is a kitten idea. This besides the point that that person probably has friends and guildies on that server that they enjoy playing with. Personally I wouldn't leave my server for the world, unless they did as well.

    Yes it depends on the match ups but for some servers its all the time. I speak for those some. Therein lies the correlation of my suggestion salving the problem with a detailed solution? If you still don't understand I'll explain it again in another way. The people crying the loudest about AFKers are those on map queued servers. Keep in mind this cry out of pain is self inducing. So poppa Anet has to build a system so that self inducing bad habits stop. Poppa Anet cant please all the kids because some kids don't see the bigger picture. This in lies the skill of the system to sway the masses in to a state of self indulgent and not triggering children.

  • Really, I think adding the participation bars to OS as well as NPCs so that people can sell, repair, and purchase their WvW goods. This would help make it clear OS is a good place to wait out timer. It would also mean no one needing to buy WvW items or have inventory cleanup to do after a WvW session would need to touch a real map.

    There would still be a learning curve, but between people seeing everything they want in OS along with Commander map tells, it would hopefully greatly cut the number down.

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭

    Everyone that is standing at spawn not participating in WvW, just standing around at spawn place or auto running against a wall should get no rewards at all.
    If you want rewards afking somewhere around, then there should be the risk for you of being killed by enemy players, thus there being a chance to deny you the rewards for actually doing NOTHING that helps your server side... anybody who stands just around for rewards is a liability for their server...

    No person has parked the right for themself to stay forever on a map, especially not if they actually dont participate at WvW at all and are there only to chat with other people ....
    If you go to WvW, then you go there to help your Server. Standing permanently afk around or auto running against a wall to pretend being active while being not at all to avoid the auto kick from the Wvw Map is no help for anybody at all.

    AFKing should not be at all encouraged, nor rewarded at all. The moment you are afk are you have nowhere participation, you should get no pips at all, nor any progression towards your WvW reward track. Both should come only, if you have active participation in WvW and the moment you want to quit WvW and logout from a WvW map, the player should receive a cash out in reward based upon the difference of the remaining time it would need, until you would normally receive the rewards.

    Lets say 5 Minutes Timer = 100% Rewards.
    Now you leave the Map at 2 Minutes remaining before you would receive rewards somewhere outside of the Spawn place.

    Normally would selfless people now afk around somewhere for those 2 minutes at spawn safely under the current situation, until they get their rewards, before they log out, stopping active WvWers in queue for unneccessary 2 Minutes, before they can join the map ...

    Under my proposal would people log out quicker, thus giving people in queue which actually want to play WvW the chance to join faster the maps they want to go to and the person who has left WvW gains at least for leaving faster the map percentually a cash out in rewards based on the remaining time until receiving the next pips and reward track points.
    At my example are already 3 minutes from 5 gone, so over the half of the time for rewards is already over.
    To be precise, 60% have gone already, so when loging out at exactly 2 Minutes left until the rewards trigger, you would get then 60% Cash Out in Rewards that you would normally have received in Pips and Progression in your Reward Track, if you would have stayed in the map 2 minutes longer and actively participated in the map to help your Server.

    People should be encouraged and rewarded for leaving faster the maps, not for afking around in spawn!!


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
    I'm the proud Origin of the Elite Specializations Concept (Sub Classes) through the last made CDI Project.


  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't know why you guys always get hung up on 'afk players'. I think it really is a symptom of other stuff that is wrong.
    I often come back from being afk when anything is attacked, so I'm not completely useless. But punishing me for taking a break to get coffee or throwing me out of wvw would just make me quit wvw faster and then you have the cries for more players again.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2017

    I think a difference should be made between two distinct behaviours :

    1. People who are "idle" because they need to take a break, someone is phoning, at the door, or they're only waiting for participation to decay because they're about to leave.
    2. People who are AFK, who don't take part to action more than needed to raise participation and keep it high.

    The whole idea of making OS a cosy place to wait is targetted towards those #1 players. #2 won't be interested at all because they'll have to switch map back and forth to maintain participation, so that won't probably help with that specific kind of case.

    I'm mixed feelings about what Orpheal's saying. I'm not for a system that's too punishing for non-participation for 2 reasons, the easiest being the system can't know the purpose of what you're doing. That's the same issue that tactivator trolls. It's hard to have an automated answer to that.
    Now, the current behaviour is already extremely punishing. Think about it : even when you're running towards action, you are considered the same as doing nothing ! You're not "doing nothing" : you're running to the next objective to cap, you're chasing someone, you unfortunately died and are going back to your friends or to your business. All of that is not "doing nothing". All of that qualifies for "actively taking part in action", but on the system side, it's just the same as "doing nothing" for it doesn't prevent the participation from decaying. That's why I don't think that pushing towards more participation control is an appropriate solution. We need active players, and WvW won't be appealing if it feels like a too punishing place.

    To conclude, I understand that the game mode should be played for itself, for fights, for glory or whatever, but I'm not mourning some kind of purity of WvW either. The thing is : there are people that stay idle at spawn or are afk-farming or whatever you call that. I'm not endorsing that, I'm just trying to make things convenient for people on the leave so that they become the less impactful for the active players.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • I go into WvW I do my three dailies and I'm usually done with those dailies before the first tick even hits. So yes I do afk for a bit because I've capped the camps, killed the vets, monuments, nixed some roamers, and whatever is needed. Its contribution but its contibution that can be done quickly.

    So something needs to be done as while I'm only their for 2-4 minutes I still contributed and there are many many people that choose to complete their dailies in WvW. You see them all the time camping the vet mobs or soloing a tower. If cashing out isn't an option what about direct contribution my WvW automatically increases when I kill that scout of solo that camp. A lobby can work too but sittting around in WvW for many people is about getting credit for the contributions and actions you've taken.

    Also I disagree with the dimish thing as well because a person should get full credit for their actions if they took a tower then when the timer hits they should get full credit for that tower they did take it after all. So diminishing returns shouldn't be shorter than the pip timer.

    I understand the reason delayed rewards are a thing to discourage karma farming and people breaking off from the zerg but that's what EOTM is for isn't it? For the endless karma zergs capping nonstop. So unless I'm wrong adding a more instant reward system back into core shouldn't really hurt anything in fact all the people clamoring for an outnumbered map probably does more dmg.

  • @McKenna Berdrow.2759 said:

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:
    How about automatically cashing out your participation when you exit?

    Cashing out has a lot of issues. For example, we would somehow need to make cashing out be exactly as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If it does not give as good of rewards no one would do it and still afk, and if we make it too good then everyone would just constantly cash out. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would be expected to earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world moves placements. We also wouldn’t want people to constantly cash out, so then we would need to accurately lock them out of WvW for a set period of time. The period of time would probably need to be longer than just the amount of time it would take to decay because otherwise it could still be more ideal to play a little, cash out go back, repeat. We have considered it, we just don’t believe it is a viable option.

    Why not keep track of the player's last known participation and how long ago they were last in WvW and then "cash out" the participation next time they join?

    Outnumbered doesn't need to be considered because you can't be outnumbered the moment you join a map, it solves the issue of needing to lock players out because leaving a map and rejoining right away just restores your participation and doesn't give any rewards because no ticks have happened, and it lets players play other content when they're done with WvW instead of forcing them to pick between standing in one place for 15 minutes or losing their participation for no reward.

    You can even skip giving the pips for it, and just give reward track progress, or make it so the non-rank-based pips for ticks where the player was not in WvW don't count at all (or because the placement pips go 3-4-5, give 2 pips per tick to players that weren't in the map but still had high enough participation).

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2017

    @McKenna Berdrow.2759 said:

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:
    How about automatically cashing out your participation when you exit?

    Cashing out has a lot of issues. For example, we would somehow need to make cashing out be exactly as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If it does not give as good of rewards no one would do it and still afk, and if we make it too good then everyone would just constantly cash out. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would be expected to earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world moves placements. We also wouldn’t want people to constantly cash out, so then we would need to accurately lock them out of WvW for a set period of time. The period of time would probably need to be longer than just the amount of time it would take to decay because otherwise it could still be more ideal to play a little, cash out go back, repeat. We have considered it, we just don’t believe it is a viable option.

    And what's the problem with keeping the participation instead of reseting it?
    Thus there is no need to cash out and leaving early doesn't suppose a real loss.

    I get that probably the participation is working as a global environment (as such to keep counting down while in PvE too) but is it that difficult to stop the clock when the player is not in the WvW?

  • MasterYoda.8563MasterYoda.8563 Member ✭✭
    edited September 18, 2017

    Okay so what about all those who take a short break to you know answer the phone, go to restroom, go get a snack, answer the door, let the dogs out/in? should they be forced to leave the map and re-que if there is one? I bet every single person in WvW has afk at some point. How far do players really wanna go with this? Players got Anet to remove crafting stations from WvW making it out to be a much bigger issue than what it really was when after WvW population already dropped off a great deal vs what it was at release. We should be spending our efforts to get more players into WvW as every server could use numbers not less.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This afking issue need to be resolved somehow.

    Many times I have seen the map full yet only have 45ish on the tag then having to deal with 60ish enemy map blob.
    Maybe anet can add a tooltip like "Be nice, don't afk in WvW"?

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • It's a bit of a stretch to assume that everyone who's actively playing is "on the tag" and those not on the tag are afk.

  • @Bandlero.6312 said:
    A better solution would be to add a lobby map for WvW. Have this map reside in WvW just like the BLs, Mist, JP, etc. Relocate all npcs, merchants, etc to this lobby, and give enough gates to travel to each of the WvW maps, and a waypoint. Essentially this lobby can act as a staging area, an area for players to AFK, etc; and it is still considered WvW so players don't have to worry about ticks and decay, but this map would not count against the populations of the actual playing maps. They could even add a gemstore pass area with crafting tables to this lobby. Multiple copies of this map could be created as populations increase so that everyone can be at least in WvW benefiting from ticks even if they're stuck waiting in hours long queues during Friday primetimes.

    Why not using the Obsidian Sanctum?

    It could be improved by adding to the west or south of the map a neutral area where nobody can fight each other with all these services.

    And connected to this area, a cave with a series of cages where two players can enter and fight each other even if they are from the seam team. And we get rid of both afkers at bases and duelers taking up spots from mist warriors.

  • Drinks.2361Drinks.2361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    I know that too well. Unfortunately, either players don't know, or they're reluctant to go there. It must be said that participation bars aren't display in OS, eventhough they're still there, you only have /t chat and nothing to do. Adding more functionnality with some NPC's to OS would probably be the easiest and most clever solution.

    I plan on getting the participation bars displaying in OS to help encourage people to afk there.

    Any word on when this is happening?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    imo.

    Afk is ok only for the following reasons:

    1. you go bio
    2. you rest because you raided with zerg, duel, roamer, for a long time and will continue after rest
    3. you are a scout.

    Anything not mentioned, i feel should be penalized.

    So you can hunt pips, just help out.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mikau.6920 said:
    Why just not make a WvW lobby? There you would get still get participation, have WvW NPCs, etc. (even crafting).

    And maybe even finally these gvg / rvr thing i heard about ? \o/ kitten i woke up :(

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2018

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    imo.

    Afk is ok only for the following reasons:

    1. you go bio
    2. you rest because you raided with zerg, duel, roamer, for a long time and will continue after rest
    3. you are a scout.

    Anything not mentioned, i feel should be penalized.

    So you can hunt pips, just help out.

    Here on NSP we have large periods of dead hours where you can count the number of players on each BL with one hand, if not one finger. At this point of writing this very message I am practically alone on the map.

    To cap a camp you must spend around 1-2m each 10m in order to get participation for rewards. That is 10-20% of a regular player. Bring 5 such afk'ers and you have just created a wvw player "for free" where before there would not be any. That is 2-5 camps (4-10 world points). They will usually also help with towers, keeps or defense.

    Is a completely empty BL better than 5 afk'ers taking camps and doing random stuff? Myself I welcome more AFK farmers during the hours of 8am -> 2pm UTC. It would mean less permanent outnumbered on the BL's but at least there is some company to be had rather than NPC's and animals.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I play in T1/T2 on one account, and T3/T4 on another - AFKing is a non-issue and should not be worth ANET's attention. Let them focus on something that actually matters.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mokuren.4069 said:

    @Lionwait.4815 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Lionwait.4815 said:
    I don't believe AFKing is the main problem here. Its a symptom of a bigger problem. Those that put them self's to AFK to get the little bit of a reward is a symptom and can be fixed with a one time use per skirmish pip cash out NPC. The big problem is those that choose to AFK on a map that is queued. To fix this problem I would make all territories that you're server owns put decay on participation at the end of each 5 minute match. This well incentivise people to engage enemy's in enemy territories then their own territories. This ultimately enforces those that want more rewards have to take more risks. This will spread out population balance by incentivising zones people don't commonly go to. This fix would discourage people that multi-box leaving an account to watch a fortification while playing with ally's on another account. Implementing such a fix wouldn't hamper people defending fortifications because of how participation is gained by hitting enemy's but it will hamper those that hang out in safe territories as it should. Unless a commander puts share squad participation on one person to be their scout. As for all zones being queued up you might want to think about changing servers. :open_mouth: who would of thought of that one, only a genius........ Look no further!

    Which does absolutely nothing to help with the issue of people going AFK.

    You're in luck! That this posted isn't made for your eyes alone. But to others that can understand a deeper issue at hand that gives cos to bad habits. The bad habit is the main topic of this post. With my post reply I suggest is a system to fix a cos to deter this habit.

    Right now you are just calling out fire and doing nothing to put out that fire. You shout out awareness with out giving action. Sure awareness has its place but when every one is aware then action is needed.

    1+1=2 basic math helps but advance math changes the world. Comprender?

    Nice condescending tone you got going there. There is absolutely no need to address anyone voicing their opinion like that.
    Regardless of that though it seems to me that what you're proposing would only encourage people to flip objectives and not fortify or defend them. After all their participation will decay fast if they stick around in owned zones. Unless you're in a squad and get the commander to give you shared participation your participation would be dead pretty fast if you're scouting or fortifying objectives, after all enemy players aren't always kind enough to drop dead at your feet.
    I'm also unsure of why you feel your system would be more effective against afking than the suggested cash out option. I personally afk on low pop maps because I need my rewards. I'm by no means a rich person and every time I log off with participation left on the bar I feel it's a waste. I put in the effort to build that up after all, I deserve the reward it's worth in my opinion. Making it harder to keep that participation up would not change the fact that I feel I shouldn't log off without cashing in that reward. If anything I had to put in more effort and deserve it doubly.

    As to your changing server suggestion. Depending on what server you're matched up with you may or you may not experience queues. Last matchup my server barely had any. This matchup we have 20+ queues every night. It changes so paying to switch servers every time you get a match up that results in queues is a dumb idea. This besides the point that that person probably has friends and guildies on that server that they enjoy playing with. Personally I wouldn't leave my server for the world, unless they did as well.

    Agree, defending is starting to have more value with the changes to higher tier structures have add more warscore, but there still needs more incentive to defend and not less, less just leads to K-Trains, we don't need that. I hear the devs about how the cashout could be abused but by using a cash-out now, at the current rate (minus outnumbered to prevent system gaming some) and then a timer lockout I think that would go a ways to doing it. Most people that are waiting for tick down have been out for a bit and are ready to move on to other things but they want their full reward for participation, so odds are good they would step out if they could. Unless I miss my guess a cashout would require less development time and if it didn't work, less work lost.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the best suggestion so far has been the immediate cash out and fifteen minute timer. Means if you need to leave, you don't really lose anything. Base the cash out on the pips earned on the last tick - which encourages people to move off the stacked map to try and find the outnumbered one and then log off to preserve that 'bonus'. Reduce outnumbered bonus to 3 pips and boost base pips by 1 to even it out.

    I frequently play a little before it's time to cook and eat, leave toon on to decay/kicked out to earn those pips, and also leave toon on to decay when it's time for stopping for the evening- tab across and do other stuff, tab back and move toon, etc. I always park on a map that's not queued.

    If the suggestion above was implemented I'd log off/use an 'encashment' NPC straight away and I'm sure many others would to. It wouldn't get rid of all afk pip farmers but it would reduce the numbers, and shouldn't really be that hard to implement.

    You'll still have people afking then running to flip a guard or camp every ten minutes- but at least they contribute a little to the score.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2018

    If cashing out were a thing, in my opinion, only one tick worth of pips & reward track should be granted, participation should be reset to 0 with a 5 minute lock on the ability to gain participation.
    Otherwise people who participate in large scale battles would cash out after every tick and be back up to T3+ before the next tick, effectively doubling their rewards.

    edit- wow, okay, I see you guys have covered this already. Glad we're on the same page. Also, this thread is ancient.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • For the people suggesting time-outs, how would this affect those of us getting client crashes? From the servers' perspective, we left wvw.

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    For the people suggesting time-outs, how would this affect those of us getting client crashes? From the servers' perspective, we left wvw.

    It actually wouldn't. The cash-out option should be a specific button to leave + cash out WvW. A crash wouldn't trigger the lock out.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raymond Lukes.6305 said:
    I plan on getting the participation bars displaying in OS to help encourage people to afk there.

    maybe you could add permanent outmaned buff for all sides in OS cause otherwise people would still prefer to afk on maps with the buff instead

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2018

    @Mikau.6920 said:
    Why just not make a WvW lobby? There you would get still get participation, have WvW NPCs, etc. (even crafting).

    A server based lobby!!!!!!

    That would be awsome.... no linkings either, just that server. There's so many positives from this situation I don't see why it shouldn't be done.

    @Drinks.2361 said:

    @Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    I know that too well. Unfortunately, either players don't know, or they're reluctant to go there. It must be said that participation bars aren't display in OS, eventhough they're still there, you only have /t chat and nothing to do. Adding more functionnality with some NPC's to OS would probably be the easiest and most clever solution.

    I plan on getting the participation bars displaying in OS to help encourage people to afk there.

    Any word on when this is happening?

    Feb 6th I would say, it was mentioned that there is going to be a PvP/WvW split so best guess is in that patch.

    @Karl McLain.5604 said:

    @Emtiarbi.3281 said:

    @Karl McLain.5604 said:
    Assuming that all goes well and we don't have any unexpected issues, the next balance update is scheduled for February 6th.

    Are you guys going to give us any sneak peak of the Balance Patch? D:

    We are planning PvP/WvW splits, changes to the Confusion condition, regeneration effectiveness prioritization, boon/condition conversion table changes... PLUS MORE!! There are some mesmer changes we're excited about and hope to talk them about in more detail as we draw nearer to the update. Stay tuned!

    -Karl

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wanya.1697 said:

    @Raymond Lukes.6305 said:
    I plan on getting the participation bars displaying in OS to help encourage people to afk there.

    maybe you could add permanent outmaned buff for all sides in OS cause otherwise people would still prefer to afk on maps with the buff instead

    Which isn't a problem.... If you are outnumbered with them there, you aren't taking up a slot...

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2018

    it can become a problem e.g. when guild raids are over
    you often have the situation that your public zerg can´t get all players in map to defend stuff
    cause there are atleast 20+ afk players still on it cause they wanted to cash-out with unmanned buff
    while you have full enemy blobs banging against your doors/walls so your public is instantly handycapped
    if the players knew for certain that they have guaranteed unmanned buff in OS they maybe might switch there before afking
    so whole public could get on map to defend

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2018

    @wanya.1697 said:
    it can become a problem e.g. when guild raids are over
    you often have the situation that your public zerg can´t get all players in map to defend stuff
    cause there are atleast 20+ afk players still on it cause they wanted to cash-out with unmanned buff
    while you have full enemy blobs banging against your doors/walls so your public is instantly handycapped
    if the players knew for certain that they have guaranteed unmanned buff in OS they maybe might switch there before afking
    so whole public could get on map to defend

    Lol when guild raids are over? Thats not a problem at all. The problem is they start gathering an hour or more before and stand afk in spawn. And the closer to primetime the worse it gets. I've seen 20+ people in just one guild standing and picking their navels in spawn because the clock is only 19:57 so its not time for raid yet, while we are getting roflstomped trying to fight entire zergs with like 5-10 people.

    If only we had been outmanned like we actually are many times I wouldnt care but that is just stupid. Some days we have had many more in spawn than the enemy groups. I remember one time in particular when we tried defending our spawncamp against like 20 enemies... but we where just to few. We request help. Cant defend it. Die, port to spawn and prepare to run back for a valiant stand but instead just stands looking at spawn. We got more than 50 people there just standing around. 10 of them would have been enough to help fight the enemy but nope. 50+ kitten people. And we where wondering why the enemy seemed to be everywhere while we wasnt outmanned.

    I would still like to see two incredibly simple changes:
    1) if you have spawn buff more than 2.5m (half a tick), you will no longer be able to get pips or participation until you spend at least 5m without it.
    2) if you have spawn buff more than 5m, you also stop counting towards the active population. You only start counting again when you start gaining participation per limitation in point 1.

  • Remove the pips from arena and wvw..and the problem is solved....this pip kitten kitten up the whole pvp and wvw...

  • @Jana.6831 said:
    Don't know why you guys always get hung up on 'afk players'. I think it really is a symptom of other stuff that is wrong.
    I often come back from being afk when anything is attacked, so I'm not completely useless. But punishing me for taking a break to get coffee or throwing me out of wvw would just make me quit wvw faster and then you have the cries for more players again.

    Agreed. Trying to 'fix' things by blanket punishing people doesn't work.

  • I don't see the difference between a guy who has gone AFK after doing what ever it is he was doing....solo roam, flippin camps, dailys, what ever the case, and letting his pips run out, and the Zerg standing next to tag at spawn for 20 mins BEFORE they start. Well, I guess except that the solo roamer has already done something and earned his participation. Over the course of the last 6 months I have been through T1-T4 with the 2 servers I have been on, there is no 'mob' of afkers standing around, there is at most, (with the exception of the zerg standing around because commander called a 3-5 min break) 3-5 players "afking" at spawn. Yes the zerg is necessary, but so are the solo roamers, and all size groups in-between. This isn't the problem it was when the pips first arrived on scene. Most of the "PVE'rs" have gotten what they came for, or have decided that the rewards aren't worth their effort at this point. IMO Anet's limited WvW resources would be better utilized if they are focused on a different issue.

  • @Bandlero.6312 said:
    A better solution would be to add a lobby map for WvW. Have this map reside in WvW just like the BLs, Mist, JP, etc. Relocate all npcs, merchants, etc to this lobby, and give enough gates to travel to each of the WvW maps, and a waypoint. Essentially this lobby can act as a staging area, an area for players to AFK, etc; and it is still considered WvW so players don't have to worry about ticks and decay, but this map would not count against the populations of the actual playing maps. They could even add a gemstore pass area with crafting tables to this lobby. Multiple copies of this map could be created as populations increase so that everyone can be at least in WvW benefiting from ticks even if they're stuck waiting in hours long queues during Friday primetimes.

    i totally agree, its a great idea !

    HoD

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2018

    Sadly I see that EBG has become the place to AFK, Roam as 5-10 man groups and pug, without actually being a use, unless it's an easy fight, or Ktrain.

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    This really seems to be a NA T1 server issue more than anything. I'm in t2 right now and the amount of people afking is hardly the amount people are complaining about here. I afk to let my pips run out but typically I have no reason to stay after I get below t3 participation. But I haven't been on a map on my server where there are 20 people afking after a guild rally.

    Which is why I say it's more than likely a tier 1 server problem if your queued up everywhere and people are afk'ing, which making OS a place to do that is honestly the best solution for people like me.

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