Why Are the Legendary Renegade Stance skills still killable? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why Are the Legendary Renegade Stance skills still killable?

jpsssss.7530jpsssss.7530 Member ✭✭
edited March 26, 2020 in Revenant

Anet, y'all made scrapper gyros into wells (removing the health bar), so why not just make these essentially wells with a neat animation at the center. I know you can do it because scourge exists... They have cooldowns AND a resource cost but can be ended early the way gyros were. Unlike the gyro wells, these are ground targeted. There's easy mode counter play for them and its called walking out or drop another circle inside to make people not want to stand in them. Give Revenant a bone of once...

Comments

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    BuT tHeY cOvEr thE entiRE PoinT on PvP!!!1!

    Yeah, actually - Rework Renegade, it certainly doesn't feel like Ritualist, nor a Summoner, not even a Warband leader.

    I don't think there is a healthy way of fixing Spirits with how they work.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, and a year before the gyro rework they made guardian's spirit weapons unkillable, ammo-based skills with unrestricted AoE placement. I wouldn't bother questioning it though, people are just going make excuses like no one uses these skills except meme builds, or it's an apples and oranges comparison.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020

    make all ai unkillable with strong actives and weaker passives.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    They have the lowest cooldowns comparatively and last longer. They can be buffed with Stability as well as Damage Reduction from it's own utility.

    Revenant can also be proactively oppressive without them which is why they can be countered. As it is in the new balance, they are stronger because they dodged the patch.

    If they weren't counterable, that would mean dropping Icerazor with Soulcleave 24/7 on mid fight and win everything as your team just sucks health away and you autospam away. While I hate Guardian Symbol Spam, even they aren't that strong compared that scenario.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    they shouldnt be killable, but stunnable

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    They have the lowest cooldowns comparatively and last longer. They can be buffed with Stability as well as Damage Reduction from it's own utility.

    Revenant can also be proactively oppressive without them which is why they can be countered. As it is in the new balance, they are stronger because they dodged the patch.

    If they weren't counterable, that would mean dropping Icerazor with Soulcleave 24/7 on mid fight and win everything as your team just sucks health away and you autospam away. While I hate Guardian Symbol Spam, even they aren't that strong compared that scenario.

    Hey now, don't be such a party-pooper.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Well if summons being unkillable is too strong, then adjust them accordingly. What renegade has now is pitiful. You cant summon them on so many grounds due to uneven ground problem, you cant summon them on top of walls or near the walls like sword of justice, they dont follow you like scrapper gyros or they cant even do a proper burst without getting stunned/killed like necro wells. And on top of that you cant even use a proper rune to buff them because their skill type is uncompatible with any of the runes that designed for specific skill types. In pvp they might cover the whole point but in wvw they are bad.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Admitting that having to play with Jalis for efficiency sucks, but nothing stops you from not picking Kalla when playing Renegade. It's fun but also have it's other advantages since the traitline is a strong one. In the end, nothing is gonna stop people from stepping out of the AoE's which is why Renegade is a great bunker and mediocre at the rest in PvP.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2020

    Renegade is fairly strong now due to the reworks and low amount of damage. If the damage level stays the same as it is now then they don't need more health and they certainly don't need no health. Renegade, including Kalla, is the best it's ever been in PvP at the moment. It's quite effective if you know what you're doing with it.

    I like how it plays now. I would be careful of any buffs to the spec and certainly don't think we need a rework since it does have a unique playstyle that isn't very comparable to any other profession except maybe Scourge

  • I've been seeing for PvP. I mainly play WvW want want them for roaming. Like I fought a condi renegade using kalla in pvp today and literally did not give a single rat's hat about them on Scourge. Like big sand shade almost covers the whole point and its WAY more impactful than a summon because it does way more (and there ain't nobody killing it)... I just wish they'd be essentially wells and not have a health bar... Even if they had a power adjustment to go with that change, that'd be better...

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    They have the lowest cooldowns comparatively and last longer. They can be buffed with Stability as well as Damage Reduction from it's own utility.

    Revenant can also be proactively oppressive without them which is why they can be countered. As it is in the new balance, they are stronger because they dodged the patch.

    If they weren't counterable, that would mean dropping Icerazor with Soulcleave 24/7 on mid fight and win everything as your team just sucks health away and you autospam away. While I hate Guardian Symbol Spam, even they aren't that strong compared that scenario.

    They have low cooldowns because there's a resource system attached that your weapons and other utilities drain from...

  • @jpsssss.7530 said:
    I've been seeing for PvP. I mainly play WvW want want them for roaming. Like I fought a condi renegade using kalla in pvp today and literally did not give a single rat's hat about them on Scourge. Like big sand shade almost covers the whole point and its WAY more impactful than a summon because it does way more (and there ain't nobody killing it)... I just wish they'd be essentially wells and not have a health bar... Even if they had a power adjustment to go with that change, that'd be better...

    That's great and all, but a Kalla/Jalis Renegade got 2nd place in the Monthly AT today sooooooo
    Even saw an EU team using 3 Ren 2 FB

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @jpsssss.7530 said:
    I've been seeing for PvP. I mainly play WvW want want them for roaming. Like I fought a condi renegade using kalla in pvp today and literally did not give a single rat's hat about them on Scourge. Like big sand shade almost covers the whole point and its WAY more impactful than a summon because it does way more (and there ain't nobody killing it)... I just wish they'd be essentially wells and not have a health bar... Even if they had a power adjustment to go with that change, that'd be better...

    That's great and all, but a Kalla/Jalis Renegade got 2nd place in the Monthly AT today sooooooo
    Even saw an EU team using 3 Ren 2 FB

    Funny enough that all the builds that got people insulting me before the patch are now used by the majority of players, even though they always worked in the first place.

    Renegade has always been decent since the start, Core has always been decent since Ancient Echo was added or Charged Mists used.

    It shows how influential trends and meta's overshadow everything else. Renegade and Core are not exactly meta but they're not without their own uniqueness either.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since the last balance patch, renegade has been substantially better. The CC can be very oppressive, when played right. It also combos very well with Jailis. another winner from last patch, since no nerfs.

    The biggest issue renegade has right now, is SB. Skills 2, 3 and 4 are mostly not PvP viable. Especially skill 3. Skill 2 should have no issues with tracking moving target. Skill 4 angle to cast increased to 270. Skill 3...meh...beating a dead horse, the reverse shout-gun must be removed. If SB can land damage consistently, renegade should be competitive in PvP. It has no issues in sustain and is strong anti CC and anti condi, which is basically the current meta.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Since the last balance patch, renegade has been substantially better. The CC can be very oppressive, when played right. It also combos very well with Jailis. another winner from last patch, since no nerfs.

    The biggest issue renegade has right now, is SB. Skills 2, 3 and 4 are mostly not PvP viable. Especially skill 3. Skill 2 should have no issues with tracking moving target. Skill 4 angle to cast increased to 270. Skill 3...meh...beating a dead horse, the reverse shout-gun must be removed. If SB can land damage consistently, renegade should be competitive in PvP. It has no issues in sustain and is strong anti CC and anti condi, which is basically the current meta.

    I disagree that SB 4 isn't PvP viable. Obviously Scorchrazor is great, but I actually think Spiritcrush is probably the best skill on the bar. Pulsing slow and burning is no joke, especially in a team fight.

    I do agree that it needs to have its targeting changed though, since there's no reason it shouldn't be able to fire behind or to the side. And yeah, SB 2 & 3 are still hot garbage in PvP

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @jpsssss.7530 said:
    I've been seeing for PvP. I mainly play WvW want want them for roaming. Like I fought a condi renegade using kalla in pvp today and literally did not give a single rat's hat about them on Scourge. Like big sand shade almost covers the whole point and its WAY more impactful than a summon because it does way more (and there ain't nobody killing it)... I just wish they'd be essentially wells and not have a health bar... Even if they had a power adjustment to go with that change, that'd be better...

    That's great and all, but a Kalla/Jalis Renegade got 2nd place in the Monthly AT today sooooooo
    Even saw an EU team using 3 Ren 2 FB

    Lol just watched that 3 Ren game right now. Holy eyecancer.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Since the last balance patch, renegade has been substantially better. The CC can be very oppressive, when played right. It also combos very well with Jailis. another winner from last patch, since no nerfs.

    The biggest issue renegade has right now, is SB. Skills 2, 3 and 4 are mostly not PvP viable. Especially skill 3. Skill 2 should have no issues with tracking moving target. Skill 4 angle to cast increased to 270. Skill 3...meh...beating a dead horse, the reverse shout-gun must be removed. If SB can land damage consistently, renegade should be competitive in PvP. It has no issues in sustain and is strong anti CC and anti condi, which is basically the current meta.

    I disagree that SB 4 isn't PvP viable. Obviously Scorchrazor is great, but I actually think Spiritcrush is probably the best skill on the bar. Pulsing slow and burning is no joke, especially in a team fight.

    I do agree that it needs to have its targeting changed though, since there's no reason it shouldn't be able to fire behind or to the side. And yeah, SB 2 & 3 are still hot garbage in PvP

    They should fix Spiritcrush's pathing issue --- it suffers from bugged terrain too often. And by that I don't mean 'moving / firing backwards'

  • @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    Since the last balance patch, renegade has been substantially better. The CC can be very oppressive, when played right. It also combos very well with Jailis. another winner from last patch, since no nerfs.

    The biggest issue renegade has right now, is SB. Skills 2, 3 and 4 are mostly not PvP viable. Especially skill 3. Skill 2 should have no issues with tracking moving target. Skill 4 angle to cast increased to 270. Skill 3...meh...beating a dead horse, the reverse shout-gun must be removed. If SB can land damage consistently, renegade should be competitive in PvP. It has no issues in sustain and is strong anti CC and anti condi, which is basically the current meta.

    I disagree that SB 4 isn't PvP viable. Obviously Scorchrazor is great, but I actually think Spiritcrush is probably the best skill on the bar. Pulsing slow and burning is no joke, especially in a team fight.

    I do agree that it needs to have its targeting changed though, since there's no reason it shouldn't be able to fire behind or to the side. And yeah, SB 2 & 3 are still hot garbage in PvP

    They should fix Spiritcrush's pathing issue --- it suffers from bugged terrain too often. And by that I don't mean 'moving / firing backwards'

    Bugged terrain? Perhaps you could explain that more. I use Spiritcrush all the time and the only issue I encounter with it is the “needing line of sight” issue. But that isn’t a bug just poor design.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerg everything to the point where Kalla start to look good. The sad state of rev lol

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    Renegade utilities should be ward based like we had on Gw1, instead of the ghost we could have a banner in center of the ward with the respective character utility is based on, would generate less visual clutter as well, and the banner could be destroyable as well.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_Spell

    @Shao.7236 said:
    They have the lowest cooldowns comparatively and last longer. They can be buffed with Stability as well as Damage Reduction from it's own utility.

    Revenant can also be proactively oppressive without them which is why they can be countered. As it is in the new balance, they are stronger because they dodged the patch.

    If they weren't counterable, that would mean dropping Icerazor with Soulcleave 24/7 on mid fight and win everything as your team just sucks health away and you autospam away. While I hate Guardian Symbol Spam, even they aren't that strong compared that scenario.

    Since they wont be KD nor KB they a are stealing stability and any other boon that could be helping an ally :\

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Since they wont be KD nor KB they a are stealing stability and any other boon that could be helping an ally :\

    Priority for boons is nearly always Players -> NPCs, so they shouldn’t be stealing any boons from allies unless there are not enough allies in range at which point they’re not stealing them just having them applied normally

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Kalla is closer to meta than I would ever like it to be. Would prefer a total rework, but if not I wish the legend would go back to the garbage bin.