Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!

So I was this active old style wvw player with different mesmers (races, etc). I enjoyed my class, swapping builds, swapping looks and races.

Thanks to anet call of killing the class (personal perspective, sorry) with 1 dodge. What happened? I realize, I don't like this class anymore. So I'm deleting at least 2 mesmers (I don't like this idea or the nerf itself, i think anet is smart enough to make something more creative but ok, its the decition they made).

Good thing, I needed a characater slot. So, good in bad right?

ty! say your thoughts, not about my case, but the big nerf.

Be nice!

Comments

  • Or.... you could play Chrono?

  • Figure out the newest dodge does not make the mesmer move out of the way like they used to. The mirage takes less damage from its dodge from being missed altogether and health regeneration along with it. the advice I have is to learn to play the mirage like it is once u do its fun to play and very survivable with lots of damage

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak...

    The big thing is that many people complained about evade uptime produced by Mirage Cloak and Anet took the easy way shaving down access to Mirage Cloak to reduce the evade uptime. My comment was entirely unrelated to whether any kind Mirage was too strong or not.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak...

    The big thing is that many people complained about evade uptime produced by Mirage Cloak and Anet took the easy way shaving down access to Mirage Cloak to reduce the evade uptime. My comment was entirely unrelated to whether any kind Mirage was too strong or not.

    removing the dodge didnt reduce evasiveness of mirage all that much.
    It just made it so you HAVE to spam it off cooldown, what actually reduced evade uptimes was 50% nerfs to scepter 2, axe 3. nerf to staff 2.
    and 50%+ dmg nerfs that forced mesmer off chaos line, meaning 0 vigor uptime.

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak...

    The big thing is that many people complained about evade uptime produced by Mirage Cloak and Anet took the easy way shaving down access to Mirage Cloak to reduce the evade uptime. My comment was entirely unrelated to whether any kind Mirage was too strong or not.

    Okey but then again I can’t follow you either. I think right now 8/8 classes have more dodges then Mirage, before the update 6/8. Sure you have also skill based dodges but a lot of people forget that the design of Mesmer itself needs 2 utility skills to work (blink and condiremove) the third is not used for another port/evade every 25 whatever seconds because there are just better alternatives. If i am serious, every time i see someone with a mirage port skill instead of blink I feel like something is dying inside me.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2020

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak... The problem is the auto attack and ambush attack of clones. And we didn’t even want that. Anet forced us to to play with this kind of style because they nerfed everything else with a 50% nerf hammer. If I don’t play a typical power shatter or cmirage build I don’t even make enough dmg to get through the regeneration of an warrior. How can then mirage cloak be the problem in any way.

    They even nerfed shatter f1 so hard, that the old classic power shatter style is a downgrade itself because the skill (f1) doesn’t make enough dmg anymore to compensate the bad design of the other Mesmer weapons. If I do not have a little bit of luck and furry for my burst the 3 clones will not all crit and do less dmg then the shatter with only 1 clone, ridiculous.

    And then you guys just say something like this:

    @Chyanne Waters.8719 said:
    Figure out the newest dodge does not make the mesmer move out of the way like they used to. The mirage takes less damage from its dodge from being missed altogether and health regeneration along with it. the advice I have is to learn to play the mirage like it is once u do its fun to play and very survivable with lots of damage

    Do I have also get used to the design of Chrono? Am I doing something wrong? Are we playing the same game? You stated that you have noticed that the dodge doesn’t „move the Mesmer out of the way“ lol, and then you give the advice to learn play mirage? I don’t have words for comments like this anymore....

    Yes, This is exactly what I was thinking. That is, that Chyanne is demonstrating a distinct lack of knowledge about Mirage by saying "** Figure out the newest dodge does not make the Mesmer move out of the way like they used to. The mirage takes less damage from its dodge from being missed altogether and health regeneration along with it.**". I mean, it demonstrates absolute ignorance about Mirage class and what each trait does and does not do. For example, when he says the "new dodge" doesn't make Mesmer move. Well Mirage Cloak doesn't make you roll, but it does let you move, this could be a misunderstanding. However, It also doesn't heal you. a minor espec trait can be used to add a small regeneration when you gain mirage cloak which is activated from dodge. This trait like others is a choice to bring and comes at the cost of losing either more clone generation or more damage on ambush from RoS. People love to say Mirage is fine, but lack obvious knowledge about Mirage, either with respect to pvp/wvw or in general. I think some know Mirage from pve and dont understand the pvp changes. Some just don't want Mesmer to be good and try to make posts that Mesmer is fine or even that its still OP. I have yet to any fact based claims of this. Quite the opposite.

  • Shena Fu.5792Shena Fu.5792 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's predict new elite tradeoffs.

    Warrior can equip only 3 armor pieces.
    Elementalist can attune only 2 elements.
    Ranger has only half a pet. (literally the pet is sliced in half.)
    Guardian heals the enemies.
    Necro shroud appears only when you get downed.
    Thief stealth means they can't see themselves, but everyone else can see them.
    Engineer blow themselves up when they dodge.
    Revenant plays blindfolded.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shena Fu.5792 said:
    Elementalist can attune only 2 elements.

    I wouldn't mind this, if we get solid options for DPS (Air/Water) and condi (Fire/Earth) .
    Having all four elements and the constant switching has been quite detrimental to the profession.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Arenanet had the choice between reworking Mirage Cloak or taking away a dodge.
    They chose the easier change.

    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak...

    The big thing is that many people complained about evade uptime produced by Mirage Cloak and Anet took the easy way shaving down access to Mirage Cloak to reduce the evade uptime. My comment was entirely unrelated to whether any kind Mirage was too strong or not.

    removing the dodge didnt reduce evasiveness of mirage all that much.
    It just made it so you HAVE to spam it off cooldown, what actually reduced evade uptimes was 50% nerfs to scepter 2, axe 3. nerf to staff 2.
    and 50%+ dmg nerfs that forced mesmer off chaos line, meaning 0 vigor uptime.

    For WvW, ppl need to know that changes have been brought from PvP like: Scepter 2 only generates 1 clone on block, Staff 3 only 1 as well.

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭
    edited 10:08AM

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Senqu.8054 said:
    They don’t have to rework mirage cloak. Power mirage was NEVER a big problem, only Condi mirage was. And guess what, power mirage has also access to mirage cloak... The problem is the auto attack and ambush attack of clones.

    Your argument makes no sense. If the problem was auto attack and ambush, then why remove a dodge (which affects both power and condi) when they could have adjusted the ambush skills instead especially staff? They could have a done a bunch of other things to bring condi mirage in line, instead they decided to get lazy and just take a sledgehammer to the spec, this was on top of already nerfing other defensive parts of the class which affected base mesmer and chrono.

    I still think dodge, which is the minimum basic defense of every single class, should never be touched in a trade off for power.

    Your statement is: “What you say makes no sense, because they could have done better but I also don’t like these change“ what do you want so say with that?

    We are right now at the peak of massive amounts of 50 % nerfs till 2 years, why do you even expect a well thought out balance change from Anet? These changes not only affected Condi mirage, no, also power mirage even if they weren’t a big deal but every time they nerfed something it indirectly also nerfed power mirage/Mesmer. Anet is known that they bring irrelevant changes which where not needed.

    In the end here are plenty of explanations about this topic and we discussed it more then once and I’m tired of it so I will not go into Detail, for someone who thinks that Anet is a competent company and the balance changes are well thought out. If you are in the optinion that power mirage is viable in any form, give me your build or better post a video. I swear I would love to see a working pMirage build!

    Edit: do you really wanna tell me the Chrono nerfs are a good balance change, because „they just adjust things“ if needed...?!

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 12:22PM

    On a side note, when I look at misha gameplay (current 1st EU, best mesmer in this game), and to give you an idea of how mesmer role evoluate :
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/576743694?t=01h50m14s
    Look also at the 3 next matchs.
    What I see is that :

    • He has regulary the most dead in his team.
    • He spend most of his time with < 50% hp.
    • 80% of the time, he is running from point to point dropping portal.
    • He spam evade to mobility and condiclear, and sustain only with weapon and utility.
    • He can't 1v1 anything.
    • He die to random aoe in teamfight.
    • It should be worst if he didn't get some vigor from teamate.
    • He is plying probably some debuff build like @Koen.1327 mentionned it in other post, around domi/illu/mirage with some carrion like gear.

    So sorry but people who come here saying l2p, in every other class you don't need to put this amount of effort to do something, it's just a high risk, mid reward play.
    And considering how he plays and his op placement, it should be really more efficient than all thoses aoe spammer who just rollface their keyboard to win.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Senqu.8054 said:
    Your statement is: “What you say makes no sense, because they could have done better but I also don’t like these change“ what do you want so say with that?

    We are right now at the peak of massive amounts of 50 % nerfs till 2 years, why do you even expect a well thought out balance change from Anet? These changes not only affected Condi mirage, no, also power mirage even if they weren’t a big deal but every time they nerfed something it indirectly also nerfed power mirage/Mesmer. Anet is known that they bring irrelevant changes which where not needed.

    In the end here are plenty of explanations about this topic and we discussed it more then once and I’m tired of it so I will not go into Detail, for someone who thinks that Anet is a competent company and the balance changes are well thought out. If you are in the optinion that power mirage is viable in any form, give me your build or better post a video. I swear I would love to see a working pMirage build!

    Edit: do you really wanna tell me the Chrono nerfs are a good balance change, because „they just adjust things“ if needed...?!

    lol what? did you misread my post?
    No where in my post was I praising them or saying they've done better. I'm saying to you that if it was just auto and ambush problem they could have easily adjusted that. They think it's still about having too much defense, which is why they nerfed some defensive parts earlier and probably why they hit dodge, in either case it was mirage cloak and infinite horizon that was the problem, and instead of adjusting those they just decided to hit the thing that would baseline affect mirage offense and defense at the same time.

    I don't like this dodge change, in fact I've cold stop playing gw2/wvw two days after the patch because of it, I've finally had enough with their nerfing of mesmers (yes even chronos, another dumb change) the past 2 years while broken mechanics still run free with no trade offs.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • pninak.1069pninak.1069 Member ✭✭

    IH wasn't the problem. it is the ambush skills themselves. Even thief dmg is very low right now even if you got a perma. I wouldn't mind if condi dmg by these attacks got hit hard in nerfs in return for our second dodge. But it is always easier to push for nerfs on a class that just puts a lot of condi stacks on you which you could just cleanse directly. 2 condis isn't much.

    Sometimes it really feels like zerkers don't even consider using condi cleanse in their builds.