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Yet Another "Should I Raid?" Thread


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Hi! So I've been back playing the game for about 6ish months now after a 5 year hiatus, enjoying most of what the game has to offer in terms of PvE and WvW. I've loved getting immersed in the game again but I have a problem- I'm reluctant to experience group content. I suffer from anxiety and while I feel I'd like to start the experience of raiding (and fractals, which I still haven't stepped foot in since I've been back) my brain steps in and throws all sorts of roadblocks in front of me.

Question 1) I recognise Discord is a must for raiding but the thought of speaking is.... urgh. Is listening to instructions enough?

I'm very experienced playing my Berserker and by the looks of the build guides they seem like an optimal DPS class for raids. My main alt also happens to be a SB Soulbeast which I read is pretty good also. Both have full ascended so gear isn't an issue. What I cannot seem to get into my head is rotations- I know it's the most simple rotation you can do (berserker) and against dummys I have no issue. Introduce a proper enemy and it's as if my brain freezes up. I've tried so hard so many times but I can't seem to be able to pay attention to rotation as well as damage mitigation, movement, my HP and the other friendlies all at once. The damage is there (I'm not useless as I've been playing my main for a long time) but I'm probably nowhere near optimal. Trust me when I say it's not a case of practicing more... my brain just doesn't seem to work that way as I've been trying for weeks now.

Question 2) How relaxed are raid groups (non-pug) with rotations? Do a lot of groups not accept you if you cannot master rotations? Are DPS and competency checks common (which I'm not necessarily against BTW, I understand the need to to waste everyone's time)?

I know there are raid training guilds but again my damn anxiety shows its ugly face once more. I've played the game solo since coming back with only a private guild for the bank space. My thoughts are racing about what is expected of me in one of these more hardcore guilds.

Question 3) Would it be considered rude to just join a raid training guild for just that reason? By that I mean I really don't wish to offend anyone by being the quiet one and just turning up for training and that's it. I'm a pretty shy guy and may wish to go back to 'solo-guilding' when not raiding if that's at all possible.

Question 4) How strict are training guilds? What is the typical requirement to join and what is typically expected of you in terms of participation and activity?

I wrote down a couple more questions but answered them myself so deleted them :) Thanks in advance for some answers!

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1) It will depend on the group but most (in my experience around 90%) are fine with just listening to instructions.

2) Under 250LI tend to be quite relaxed. As long as you are doing more damage than the support classes its very unlikely anyone will say anything.Most training guilds will accept people who havnt fully mastered rotations as long as they output reasonable dps. Again this will be up to the group, but on average, 20k dps on golem and 10k dps in real raid scenario (boss dependant) is ok for training.This will be very different however if you plan to progress into clear groups or hardcore guilds. You need to do around 80% of benchmark for these and people will call you out if you are lacking dps. Expect 90% benchmark for more hardcore players.

About your rotation, its more important to understand the rotation, and know where your damage is actually coming from, than executing it perfectly step by step like snowcrows guide. In raids things will go wrong and you will mess up. Its better to know which steps are just filler and can be skipped and how to get back on track to keep your dps up. If you already have done this, the only thing you can do is keep going. Practice until its muscle memory and you do it without thinking. You should be able to do your full rotation without looking at your keyboard once on golem to have fully learned it.

3) No. Most wont care.

4) Again its guild dependant but most ask that you have appropriate build for your class. E.g vipers for condi dps, beserker for pdps. With exotic armor and maybe ascended trinkets/weps. Expected to know your rotation enough to outdps the supports and have a general idea of your responsibilities in a raid. It seems you have all this covered fine already. More importantly, a training guild will expect you to be active and sign up for trainings, turn up on time and listen to instructions. Do not afk for unreasonably long and dont leave in the middle unless its an emergency. Having patience with others, non toxic attitude and williness to learn. Basically respect your guildies and their time and there should be no issue.

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@"Thereon.3495" said:Question 1) I recognise Discord is a must for raiding but the thought of speaking is.... urgh. Is listening to instructions enough?Usually it's just enough to listenI'm very experienced playing my Berserker and by the looks of the build guides they seem like an optimal DPS class for raids. My main alt also happens to be a SB Soulbeast which I read is pretty good also. Both have full ascended so gear isn't an issue. What I cannot seem to get into my head is rotations- I know it's the most simple rotation you can do (berserker) and against dummys I have no issue. Introduce a proper enemy and it's as if my brain freezes up.There is currently a condi Soulbeast build who's rotation is just "fire off all but two skills off cooldown" and does more than acceptable damage. Considering how easy it is to farm up a set of stat-selectable exotic armor and ascended trinkets, this might be a good thing to look into.Question 2) How relaxed are raid groups (non-pug) with rotations? Do a lot of groups not accept you if you cannot master rotations? Are DPS and competency checks common (which I'm not necessarily against BTW, I understand the need to to waste everyone's time)?This depends on the group. Most will just check your DPS, and point it out to you if you are too low. Some will micromanage you. Most training groups in the guilds I belong to won't even call you out on low DPS. They don't go in expecting a kill. They let everyone do the best they can and then post stats afterwards so people can measure themselves.I am however, sure that other groups will micromanage you and set higher expectations.I know there are raid training guilds but again my kitten anxiety shows its ugly face once more. I've played the game solo since coming back with only a private guild for the bank space. My thoughts are racing about what is expected of me in one of these more hardcore guilds.Every guild I have been part of that offers raid training places zero expectations on those attending. Show up and do your best for two hours. Others might have higher standards, but Ive found it pretty common that a kill isnt expected, just show up and try for two hours and don't be a doosh.

Question 3) Would it be considered rude to just join a raid training guild for just that reason?That is what they are for.That said, from what I have seen, "raid training" guilds do carry slightly higher expectations. Look for a medium to high pop guild that offers raid training, they are usually a bit more chill.Question 4) How strict are training guilds? What is the typical requirement to join and what is typically expected of you in terms of participation and activity?_This will depend on the guild. Most of them are pretty upfront about expectations. Any guild offering raid training these days will have a discord with their expectations pretty clearly laid out. They will all be different.

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@Thereon.3495 said:Hi! So I've been back playing the game for about 6ish months now after a 5 year hiatus, enjoying most of what the game has to offer in terms of PvE and WvW. I've loved getting immersed in the game again but I have a problem- I'm reluctant to experience group content. I suffer from anxiety and while I feel I'd like to start the experience of raiding (and fractals, which I still haven't stepped foot in since I've been back) my brain steps in and throws all sorts of roadblocks in front of me.

Question 1) I recognise Discord is a must for raiding but the thought of speaking is.... urgh. Is listening to instructions enough?

Listening is enough.

Question 2) How relaxed are raid groups (non-pug) with rotations? Do a lot of groups not accept you if you cannot master rotations? Are DPS and competency checks common (which I'm not necessarily against BTW, I understand the need to to waste everyone's time)?

Atleast in my guild raid trainings are relaxed and fun. No1 expects you to master your rotation in our trainings, basic knowledge is enough.

Question 3) Would it be considered rude to just join a raid training guild for just that reason? By that I mean I really don't wish to offend anyone by being the quiet one and just turning up for training and that's it. I'm a pretty shy guy and may wish to go back to 'solo-guilding' when not raiding if that's at all possible.

Again when it comes to my guild, you dont have to do anything else with the guild than join for trainings where you have signed up unless you want to.Question 4) How strict are training guilds? What is the typical requirement to join and what is typically expected of you in terms of participation and activity?

Usually meta build for your class (stats, runes, sigils, weapons and traits). Ascended is not needed, exotic is fine.

If you play EU we are happy to take you, we have trainings going on around 5 times/week. Usually starting at 20cet or 18cet

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@Thereon.3495 said:Hi! So I've been back playing the game for about 6ish months now after a 5 year hiatus, enjoying most of what the game has to offer in terms of PvE and WvW. I've loved getting immersed in the game again but I have a problem- I'm reluctant to experience group content. I suffer from anxiety and while I feel I'd like to start the experience of raiding (and fractals, which I still haven't stepped foot in since I've been back) my brain steps in and throws all sorts of roadblocks in front of me.

Question 1) I recognise Discord is a must for raiding but the thought of speaking is.... urgh. Is listening to instructions enough?

Id say thats what most guilds want at least so they dont have to type every single thing, you can type out what ever you want to say.

I'm very experienced playing my Berserker and by the looks of the build guides they seem like an optimal DPS class for raids. My main alt also happens to be a SB Soulbeast which I read is pretty good also. Both have full ascended so gear isn't an issue. What I cannot seem to get into my head is rotations- I know it's the most simple rotation you can do (berserker) and against dummys I have no issue. Introduce a proper enemy and it's as if my brain freezes up. I've tried so hard so many times but I can't seem to be able to pay attention to rotation as well as damage mitigation, movement, my HP and the other friendlies all at once. The damage is there (I'm not useless as I've been playing my main for a long time) but I'm probably nowhere near optimal. Trust me when I say it's not a case of practicing more... my brain just doesn't seem to work that way as I've been trying for weeks now.

In case you are aproaching your rotation like smth you gotta memorize id say take a step back and just look at and study yoyr rotation, why does the rotation call for x after y, why use this skill after i swap or w/e. That helped me jnderstand back in the day my dh alot more.

Question 2) How relaxed are raid groups (non-pug) with rotations? Do a lot of groups not accept you if you cannot master rotations? Are DPS and competency checks common (which I'm not necessarily against BTW, I understand the need to to waste everyone's time)?

Depends on the groups really, some want very strong performance while other simply want ppl that are open to advice and willing to learn or at least put the effort to learn.

I know there are raid training guilds but again my kitten anxiety shows its ugly face once more. I've played the game solo since coming back with only a private guild for the bank space. My thoughts are racing about what is expected of me in one of these more hardcore guilds.

Whats expected of you is to be friendly and take advice whenever it is given, its a training run, you are there to learn the ropes not pull 40k dps and carry 9 other players.

Question 3) Would it be considered rude to just join a raid training guild for just that reason? By that I mean I really don't wish to offend anyone by being the quiet one and just turning up for training and that's it. I'm a pretty shy guy and may wish to go back to 'solo-guilding' when not raiding if that's at all possible.

Back when i did training runs that was fairly acceptable tbh, if they orginise runs tho try to be clear with them in regadds if you gonna show up or not,it sucks when half the raid doesnt show up.

The fact that you want to learn to raid means you plan on doing so as long as you are there for the raids what you do in your off raid times doesnt matter.

Question 4) How strict are training guilds? What is the typical requirement to join and what is typically expected of you in terms of participation and activity?

The discord i used to be had free entry runs and a ranking system for ppl that became more and more experienced, if you dont want extra hard commitment the simple free entry runs should be fine.

A suggestion id give you would to tune in on mighty teapot's streams and ask if hes up for some raids with viewers or pugs, hes very open to taking in new players or newbs and teaching them all about the content.

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Some amazing answers from all of you, thanks a lot. Its helping to put my mind at ease a bit. I wish I could turn off the anxiety as its just a damn game but it doesn't really work like that, worst luck.

With regards to the offers to join thanks, I may take you up on that when things calm down a bit. I'm a UK NHS worker so things are mad at the moment. Get home and I'm pretty much falling asleep by 8!

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Thereon.3495 said:Question 1) I recognise Discord is a must for raiding but the thought of speaking is.... urgh. Is listening to instructions enough?

Depends on the group (as do the answers for all of these questions), but should be absolutely fine.Most people just listen, but once (and if) you get more comfortable with both the content and whoever you are Raiding with, being able to communicate effectively can both be a viable asset in terms of you being able to spot and call out things, as well as just increasing your own and everybody else's fun.

Anxiety is a tough beast, but it get's worse/stays bad if you don't flex that muscle. After you've been in voice a couple of times you will most likely realise it's really not that bad and get used to it, it's just especially that first jump into it that's nerve wracking.

@Thereon.3495 said:I'm very experienced playing my Berserker and by the looks of the build guides they seem like an optimal DPS class for raids. My main alt also happens to be a SB Soulbeast which I read is pretty good also. Both have full ascended so gear isn't an issue. What I cannot seem to get into my head is rotations- I know it's the most simple rotation you can do (berserker) and against dummys I have no issue. Introduce a proper enemy and it's as if my brain freezes up. I've tried so hard so many times but I can't seem to be able to pay attention to rotation as well as damage mitigation, movement, my HP and the other friendlies all at once. The damage is there (I'm not useless as I've been playing my main for a long time) but I'm probably nowhere near optimal. Trust me when I say it's not a case of practicing more... my brain just doesn't seem to work that way as I've been trying for weeks now.

Take rotations as guidelines how to achieve optimal DPS under optimal circumstances, nothing more, nothing less.Benchmarks and rotations are an incredibly valuable resource to check what is viable and to compare your level of performance against, but it's not gospel once you actually go into a fight.I recommend looking at the rotations for a general idea at how something is played well, but then first go and actually understand the profession and build yourself and why it is played that way, recognising when and where the damage is coming from, where to pick back up from should things go sideways or be interrupted by mechanics, etc.Once you have that intuitive understanding of a build, then you can go and actually grind that rotation at a golem for a while to get it into your muscle memory.

The goal is to get good enough at knowing and playing your build that once you are in a actual Raid, your can focus on and fight the Raid boss and it's mechanics, not yourself or your rotation.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the rotations you will find online are catered to one thing and one thing only, maximum possible DPS against a static golem.A lot of times they include skills adding a miniscule dps increase, at the price of a drastically more complicated and hard to pull off rotation.A beginner who especially needs a lot of their focus on the actual fight rather than themselves would probably do better with a custom rotation doing 50-1000 theoretical DPS less, but being half as difficult to play, resulting in less panic, less mistakes, and actually higher real DPS in fights due to avoiding those pitfalls.

That's why it is important to actually understand each and every part of the build and rotation and what they each contribute, and to practice and experiment on the golem for a while, to see for yourself (with a DPS meter) how much each part of the rotation contributes, what you can substitute for an easier time at the beginning etc.Once you start to get bored in Raids and find them easy, you can always go back and learn to get that extra edge of DPS back in.

Also in fights, don't overload your brain. Pay attention to what you need to pay attention to, especially starting out before you know everything by heart. Trust your supports.

@Thereon.3495 said:Question 2) How relaxed are raid groups (non-pug) with rotations? Do a lot of groups not accept you if you cannot master rotations? Are DPS and competency checks common (which I'm not necessarily against BTW, I understand the need to to waste everyone's time)?

I know there are raid training guilds but again my kitten anxiety shows its ugly face once more. I've played the game solo since coming back with only a private guild for the bank space. My thoughts are racing about what is expected of me in one of these more hardcore guilds.

In years of Raiding I honestly barely have ever seen anyone being called out on their DPS unless it was truly horrendous, aka on levels below simply just Auto attacking, coming in behind full supports and eventually just being too much of a detriment to beat the content, or as part of extremely hardcore groups who basically want to race themselves for a personal and group best time every time they play.The requirements vary too much for me to really comment on, but for a training guild/run I personally wouldn't expect any crazy tests.

@Thereon.3495 said:Question 3) Would it be considered rude to just join a raid training guild for just that reason? By that I mean I really don't wish to offend anyone by being the quiet one and just turning up for training and that's it. I'm a pretty shy guy and may wish to go back to 'solo-guilding' when not raiding if that's at all possible.

That's pretty much most people I've ever seen in Training at the start, don't worry about it.Your are being (self-)conscious about your own performance and have a mind set of wanting to contribute and to not be a burden, that already put's you ahead of 90% of the players in this game.In my experience most players with their toxic horror stories about Raids and it's community are generally fairly stubborn players who are unwilling to listen or learn while utterly lacking the skill and experience to back up that mentality, generally becoming toxic themselves first due to a feeling of just being entitled to Raid and to get carried.

The fact that you are even thinking about all these things and making this post signals to me that most Training guilds most likely will count themselves lucky to have you.Watching and guiding a player who actually wants to learn grow as a player is one of the major reasons they offer training in the first place.

@Thereon.3495 said:Question 4) How strict are training guilds? What is the typical requirement to join and what is typically expected of you in terms of participation and activity?

@"Excursion.9752" said:You may want to check this out for Raid Training. If you join that group and follow the steps in their getting started guide you will have people there that are willing to help.

Seems like a good resource.Requirements etc. will vary. As for expectations of activity, generally it's just actually be there for the Training you signed on for.You would be surprised how often people cry and moan for Training and a way into Raids, but then repeatedly don't even show up without note or excuse, leaving everybody else hanging.

TL;DR:If you just show up to trainings and show a willingness to listen and improve, you are already ahead of 90% of the community in contribution to actually being able to get into Raids and to have a good time.Congratulations and good luck!

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