Anet.. can you make a DPS meter? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Anet.. can you make a DPS meter?

Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

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Comments

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

    Why? Anet would "share" "your" personal data even if they made a tool of their own. Why make a tool when the community is more than glad to do so?

    Now sure anet could make one and i like the idea of rewarding good players ( which could use more refining). But they have already given the green light to ppl to make by abet's design so it would be any diff.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nahhh,,, if it's just a feature of raids, then, it kinda stays with raids, if they don't like it, they can avoid raids. Also., works great for casual groups that might not want to deal with 3rd party software, and yet still know at a glance if they have a chance.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

    Why? Anet would "share" "your" personal data even if they made a tool of their own. Why make a tool when the community is more than glad to do so?

    Now sure anet could make one and i like the idea of rewarding good players ( which could use more refining). But they have already given the green light to ppl to make by abet's design so it would be any diff.

    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017

    It is probably the same as templates. On the reddit discussion about arcdps housing templates it became clear that they would need a dedicated team to maintain,fix and update the templates after each new build so they dont bug and crash. A dps meter would be exactly the same.
    Ofc arcdps already does it so anet dont think they need to bother creating one.

    Lastly, an add-on meter is probably more flexible to changes and updates than a meter that is hardcoded into the game severely reducing the necessary workload.
    For me BGDM was by far the best and i always used that but RIP.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Nahhh,,, if it's just a feature of raids, then, it kinda stays with raids, if they don't like it, they can avoid raids. Also., works great for casual groups that might not want to deal with 3rd party software, and yet still know at a glance if they have a chance.

    You are in luck with ArcDPS you do not have to install a 3d party tool to see your stats. Only one person in the group needs it. The rest can play the game without making any changes and then see their charts that the one with the meter created.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I actually think 3rd party is probably the smart way to do this. I'm an active raider, and I get why we would all love a 1st party meter. However, there is no doubt gw2 has a lot of casual players. Casual players with dps meters is not a good thing, they won't use them correctly, and won't be able to interpret them correctly. They will do stupid things like trash talk dps in open world pve, or complain about a players dps while ignoring boon uptime. But, casual players are a lot less likely to download a 3rd party tool.

    Keeping dps meters as a 3rd party tool helps to keep them out of the wrong hands. Obviously sometimes players still get them who shouldn't have them, but on the whole, I think 3rd party is better.

    Build templates on the other hand, that needs a 1st party solution imo.

    Since It would only be a feature activated in Raids and T4 Fractals, it would not even be an option in Open world, so that is not a problem. Also, I was thinking more a color coded meter, as opposed to just numbers, could also put in a gear score mechanic as well, to see who has optimal gear, or at least the quality of their gear (IE: Exotic, Ascended, Etc) if not how well their stats are laid out.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Nahhh,,, if it's just a feature of raids, then, it kinda stays with raids, if they don't like it, they can avoid raids. Also., works great for casual groups that might not want to deal with 3rd party software, and yet still know at a glance if they have a chance.

    You are in luck with ArcDPS you do not have to install a 3d party tool to see your stats. Only one person in the group needs it. The rest can play the game without making any changes and then see their charts that the one with the meter created.

    Still reeks of being 3rd party spyware, which is what the real problem is. Much better to have Anet just tell me, then to have to depend on other players who may or may not be kitten about it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoomborg.9462 said:
    It is probably the same as templates. On the reddit discussion about arcdps housing templates it became clear that they would need a dedicated team to maintain,fix and update the templates after each new build so they dont bug and crash. A dps meter would be exactly the same.

    You all realize that Anet already has a stat meter/monitor installed in PvP that is better then some bland limited DPS meter. It not only charts your DPS, but also your healing, and other stats, and it even runs comparisons, and charts/gives rewards at the end of matches for top stats in various abilities, like Healing, Defense, Damage, Kills, etc. an it's been running fine build after build, expansion after expansion.

    Moving that system to Raids (Another 10 player Instance based combat system) seems like a no-brainer.

    There is really no reason for 3rd party programs when Anet already has a better system installed, running and being maintained in the game right now.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    The meter is the golem in the special forces training area.

    can I bring that golem into the raid, and wave it around showing off my DPS?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

    Praise delta!

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    The meter is the golem in the special forces training area.

    can I bring that golem into the raid, and wave it around showing off my DPS?

    Yes. Just do a video of yourself doing leet deeps against the golem, and then say you're bringing the same build into raids.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Kururu.8140Kururu.8140 Member ✭✭✭

    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    CAN they make it? Yes, absolutely. WILL they make it? Who knows.

    I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭

    What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

  • Shard.4791Shard.4791 Member ✭✭✭

    I believe there is some kind of DPS meter on their Developer Build of the game. Makes sense for class balancing purposes. Like zoomborg said it would be work for the devs to maintain and they want to pump out that sweet story content instead etc.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017

    @xDudisx.5914 said:
    CAN they make it? Yes, absolutely. WILL they make it? Who knows.
    I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

    @Kururu.8140 said:
    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

    The thing is, They already have the meters in place for their PvP arenas, not only do they track DPS, but healing, kills, and defense, I would wager from their attempts at E-sports. so it makes no sense for them to not put the same kind of feature in their raids, if their player base wants it so badly they made it themselves. In fact if Anet put in the feature it could even be set up to give top stat awards like PvP, and support players could also get bonus rewards for healing, raising downed players, etc.

    There is no real reason why Anet should not put this in, they already have it in the game, so it would not require any additional development.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kururu.8140 said:
    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

    Same as I see it, if they are gonna let this be the direction of things, they should embrace that direction and have their own system, expecting players to depend on 3rd party software to provide what should be a game feature, is just not good policy.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

    You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    Oh come on.. of course there is.. After all, if they are such a needed part of raiding, they should be a mandatory requirement for any game with a raid. If anything, Anet is behind the times at this point, still letting players build something that should be a standard feature in Raiding. Player made DPS meters are cave-man stuff at this point in gaming development.

    We all know this is true, it was cool back in the day, but now, its more a question of why are they still dragging their feet and expecting players to do their job, it's not like they didn't know DPS meters were going to become integral the second they made a raid, and if they sincerely didn't.. they need a better more in the know raid team.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kururu.8140 said:
    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

    This is actually incorrect. The standard dps meters we use now, such as arcdps, are memory reading. A long time ago we had dps meters that literally just read numbers on the screen, but in the past year anet approved the more accurate memory reading types.

  • Maunzi.3764Maunzi.3764 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I actually think 3rd party is probably the smart way to do this. I'm an active raider, and I get why we would all love a 1st party meter. However, there is no doubt gw2 has a lot of casual players. Casual players with dps meters is not a good thing, they won't use them correctly, and won't be able to interpret them correctly. They will do stupid things like trash talk dps in open world pve, or complain about a players dps while ignoring boon uptime.

    Sounds like a hardcore pug raider to me. The kind that complains about the orb pushing Druid's DPS.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

    Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

    and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

    Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

    and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

    "ArcDPS - measuring efficiency every day - today it's you, tomorrow your wallet"

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

    You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

    You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they could build a meter from it, but it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

    Praise delta!

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

    You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

    You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they could build a meter from it, but it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

    They can also use 3rd party app as a roadmap for designing their tool.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

    You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

    You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they could build a meter from it, but it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

    Let me see if I have your point correctly, You believe that The very people that made the Raid itself, that you and yours are so enamored with that you are downloading 3rd party software just to play it more, you don't think they know what you want?

    I have to say that twice just to process it, you don't think that the very people that made the raid itself... know what players want?

    Now, you may have a point if raids were this catastrophic fail that was hated with a passion, but, the fact that so many are so infatuated with how great their raids are that they are making and downloading 3rd party software just so they can be better at them.. that strikes as this team knows what they are doing and knows what makes you all tick.

    If even after all this time and all those raids, you really feel that the raid team is that clueless, and that game is build by people that utterly incompetent, why are you even still here?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you? The quality of the raids is utterly irrelevant to the question of whether I expect ANet to be capable of producing a good dps meter (or any other kind of addon). Just because one small team is good at producing raids it does not necessarily have to be good at anything else. That's a bit like asking the best car mechanic to do some intricate quantum mechanic calculations. Maybe he can even do them, but the likelihood is rather low. There have been enough games with better raids (though GW2 raids are, admittedly, nice casual stuff) where people have modded the hell out of the game, just because the dev solutions to those questions were mediocre to bad.

    Praise delta!

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

    Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Now with that said.. Anet has shown to be very resourceful when they want to be, look at how they handled the mount issue. As such, if it was something of importance to them, I am sure they could make an amazing participation meter.. and if they don't.. then we would know exactly how much or little as the case may be, they care about raids and player DPS.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

  • deltaconnected.4058deltaconnected.4058 Member ✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

    Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

    and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

    "ArcDPS - measuring efficiency every day - today it's you, tomorrow your wallet"

    No need. Windows, Flash, and plenty other [insert closed-source application you use and trust] already cornered those markets. Enough so that I don't even bother phoning home usage/config stats to decide which area gets a little focus for improvement.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    They won't because they want to sit on the fence. They want to not alienate the raiding crowd while pleasing the rabid open world magic casuals over their refusal to implement the tool themselves.

    "rabid open world magic casuals" as opposed to rabid raiding tryhards.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

    Not to mention the golem does not account team play, where other players using AoE boons, like banners for example.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Rising Dusk.2408Rising Dusk.2408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

    You do realize that arcdps was literally approved for usage by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

    Valor Zeal [VZ] - Stormbluff Isle

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

    Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

    ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8(c) or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

    I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

    Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

    ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8(c) or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

    I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

    The caps is to make it clear that Anet can't be liable regarding issues of harassment under the idea that they should have known what was going on.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

    You do realize that arcdps was literally approved for usage by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

    You also understand that Anet security only cares about the game and what information is taken from the game itself, if the program datamines your computer, Anet does not care, nor are they liable for such. Just keep that little tidbit in mind as you load it up.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Substatic.6958Substatic.6958 Member ✭✭✭

    How about they fix the industry worst balance first? Never seen a game with this huge of a delta gap accross so many specs.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Substatic.6958 said:
    How about they fix the industry worst balance first? Never seen a game with this huge of a delta gap accross so many specs.

    Woah there. lets not ask for the impossible .

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Rhanoa.3960Rhanoa.3960 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

    Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

    Let's get something clear, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE! Just about everyone whips out the I GOT EXPERIENCE CARD, and the look here I know what I am talking about. It doesn't mean many of us came here to experience the same games many of have us already played over and over and over and over again.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2017

    @Rhanoa.3960 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

    Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

    Let's get something clear, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE! Just about everyone whips out the I GOT EXPERIENCE CARD, and the look here I know what I am talking about. It doesn't mean many of us came here to experience the same games many of have us already played over and over and over and over again.

    Not being rude.. but.. what exactly is the point you are trying to make, and how does it pertain to the OP.. just asking so I can respond appropriately, because right now I am stumped.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @xDudisx.5914 said:
    CAN they make it? Yes, absolutely. WILL they make it? Who knows.
    I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

    @Kururu.8140 said:
    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

    The thing is, They already have the meters in place for their PvP arenas, not only do they track DPS, but healing, kills, and defense, I would wager from their attempts at E-sports. so it makes no sense for them to not put the same kind of feature in their raids, if their player base wants it so badly they made it themselves. In fact if Anet put in the feature it could even be set up to give top stat awards like PvP, and support players could also get bonus rewards for healing, raising downed players, etc.

    There is no real reason why Anet should not put this in, they already have it in the game, so it would not require any additional development.

    This makes a lot of sense to me. They could add it for certain areas of the game, including fractals and they could even include lore to go along with it. Like Dessa pops up after the fractal is over with her summary of the "data" she "gathered" during your fractal encounter etc etc. Same could go for raiding and Scholar Glenna, she could just give you a report after the boss fight win/lose etc.

    If they did something like this, they could include it in the mechanics of fights, like an NPC voice-over telling you something bad (boss mechanic) is going to happen if you (personally) don't do more damage or you are doing well type of thing, to help people get into raiding easier and judge their performance in real-time without having to look at a bar graph or numbers.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

    Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

    ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8(c) or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

    I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

    The caps is to make it clear that Anet can't be liable regarding issues of harassment under the idea that they should have known what was going on.

    The EULA is rather clear and I answered the "you constantly have to read the EULA", it's both accepted under the terms of the EULA AND they will send you a message or require you to accept it again in case they change it. Unless you see a pop up when you fire up the game that requires you to re-accept the EULA it's perfectly legal and safe to use ArcDPS. It happened when Heart of Thorns was released, everyone got a pop up while logging in to re-accept the EULA, possibly because they made changes to it.

    They are obligated to tell you when they change the EULA so you can give your consent once again, so there is no reason to worry and re-check it constantly.

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