Anet.. can you make a DPS meter? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Anet.. can you make a DPS meter?

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Comments

  • @Rising Dusk.2408 said:
    You do realize that arcdps was literally approved for usage by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

    I am fully aware of this, but it is still prone to changing, at which point ArcDPS may no longer be "safe" to use. If Anet just makes their own it will work from the get-go every patch instead waiting for some unknown, working for free whenever they feel like it 3rd party developer to get on it. (Who may or may not be on vacation for the next 5 years). I'm just saying I'm in favor of an ArenaNet developed DPS-meter, and I'm not going to use ArcDPS because I don't want to risk getting spyware from a source I know nothing about. /rant

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Like the idea to add that stat summary that PvP has in the end of every instanced content

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A proper DPS meter, one to provide us with all of the information we are craving for, would be a great tool to behold. All though, rather unlikely that we would see anything able to rival the 3rd party meters made for raiders by raiders, let alone a tool that includes the additional information not provided by the most extensive 3rd party meters at the moment.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2017

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

    You do realize that arcdps was literally approved for usage by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

    If this is so safe, why ArenaNet refuses to protect players using it offering support and help if anything unexpected happens. They literally said they do not take any responsibility for this tool.

    I find it reasonable request from OP to ask for build-in DPS meter because ArenaNet would then make sure and would be obligated by UA to make sure it's safe to use, compliant and what's important compensate if any damage is done by this tool.

    Using 3rd party tools is a risk. Always. From DPS meters, to YOLOmouse. You cannot guarantee anyone here that one day its developer changes this tool into credit card data stealing tool. And if it happens, ArenaNet is free from any responsibility.

    This is why I agree and endorse OP's request for considering creating and support build in DPS meter supported by the game dev.

  • Any software is a huge risk.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @xDudisx.5914 said:
    CAN they make it? Yes, absolutely. WILL they make it? Who knows.
    I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

    @Kururu.8140 said:
    Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

    The thing is, They already have the meters in place for their PvP arenas, not only do they track DPS, but healing, kills, and defense, I would wager from their attempts at E-sports. so it makes no sense for them to not put the same kind of feature in their raids, if their player base wants it so badly they made it themselves. In fact if Anet put in the feature it could even be set up to give top stat awards like PvP, and support players could also get bonus rewards for healing, raising downed players, etc.

    There is no real reason why Anet should not put this in, they already have it in the game, so it would not require any additional development.

    This makes a lot of sense to me. They could add it for certain areas of the game, including fractals and they could even include lore to go along with it. Like Dessa pops up after the fractal is over with her summary of the "data" she "gathered" during your fractal encounter etc etc. Same could go for raiding and Scholar Glenna, she could just give you a report after the boss fight win/lose etc.

    If they did something like this, they could include it in the mechanics of fights, like an NPC voice-over telling you something bad (boss mechanic) is going to happen if you (personally) don't do more damage or you are doing well type of thing, to help people get into raiding easier and judge their performance in real-time without having to look at a bar graph or numbers.

    I had not thought about that, but, having some kind of NPC either cheering you on, or warning you of doom, could be another great mechanic that could be added to the encounters to give it a more personalized feel! Great Idea!

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2017

    @Henry.5713 said:
    A proper DPS meter, one to provide us with all of the information we are craving for, would be a great tool to behold. All though, rather unlikely that we would see anything able to rival the 3rd party meters made for raiders by raiders, let alone a tool that includes the additional information not provided by the most extensive 3rd party meters at the moment.

    Well the good news would be, that raiders that wanted something more just their style, "for them, by them", could still make it. Nothing would stop them, even if Anet made a DPS/Stat Meter for their Instance content. Anet making a mater would simply help everyone else, like the people that don't want to deal with overlays and 3rd party programs.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    Like the idea to add that stat summary that PvP has in the end of every instanced content

    Maybe even give rewards for it as well, like PvP does.

    Which makes me wonder if the people objecting to this, don't want everyone else to see how well they really did at the end of the encounter?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight no one's gonna notice you have or dont have a dps meter.
    Been filling dps and cPS roles for over a year now, no dpsmeters, no problems

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Substatic.6958Substatic.6958 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight

    You mean play the right build in a very poorly balanced game.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:
    ANet isn't going to make one.

    Its' not for you to say what Anet will and will not make.

    Also, Anet already has DSP meters in the game, been there for years, its' just a matter of applying it to raids.

    but if you want to just ignore it and bury your head in the sand hoping for ANet to do something official when they won't... Well, you have fun with that.

    That is exactly what I am doing, good to see you finally catching on, feel free to move on some other discussion now.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Substatic.6958 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight

    You mean play the right build in a very poorly balanced game.

    Why aren't you using the build that does a lot of damage, or supply a lot of might?
    I'm not gonna queue for a might role and not equip my phalanx strength.
    That's like a fireman running in without a suit

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Dps meters are overrated. If you carry your weight no one's gonna notice you have or dont have a dps meter.
    Been filling dps and cPS roles for over a year now, no dpsmeters, no problems

    Sure, but they are an awesome tool to spot problems in performance and improve. Both personally and as a group. You might argue improvement isn't really necessary if you're getting the job done anyway, but you know... increasing mastery is rewarding in its own way.

  • Menaki.6329Menaki.6329 Member ✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    I've seen this coming, when they have introduced raids in gw2. Dps-meters are poison for the community in every game. It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps. Well, it's okay if you want yourself to get better, but many players won't stop at this point. Seeing or reading combat data from other players shouldn't be possible.

    Here is an example for what I mean and where I could vomit:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    REAPER SHROUD IS NOT HIGH DAMAGE. IT IS A DPS LOSS TO CAMPING GREATSWORD AUTOATTACKS AND GRAVEDIGGER.

    THIS IS WHY DPS METERS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE. So kitten like this doesn't get spouted right and left.

  • @Menaki.6329 said:
    It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

    You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @Menaki.6329 said:
    It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

    You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

    Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @Menaki.6329 said:
    It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

    You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

    Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

    There is no problem. There are just players who like doing stuff one way and players who like it another. Why would you expect everyone to comply with your own way of playing?

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @Menaki.6329 said:
    It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

    You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

    Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

    There is no problem. There are just players who like doing stuff one way and players who like it another. Why would you expect everyone to comply with your own way of playing?

    Yea, I just cant get my head around all the hype and drama. I raid, weekly with my guild team, 2 days, and that's it. If we clear we clear, if we do 2 bosses due to trying new builds and such, so be it. I wont pug, period. Its not my thing and I don't need to subject myself to such toxic people. Now, don't get me wrong, I have met some very nice people in a pug or 2, before I was an "active" raider, so they are there. But most times LFG is full of "need chrono +150LI and leg armor" or something like that. I just stay away. I have seen and been tempted to join the ones that ask for new folks, training, whatever, so its there for everyone.
    This needs to go away, bury it and move on folks. Discuss BALANCE and lack of maybe!!! ;)

  • Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

  • jamesdolla.3954jamesdolla.3954 Member ✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    Arcdps is fine and easy to install. Why would we want Anet to waste time on something we already have instead of working on making gw2 better? No thanks to this.

    Maguuma

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:
    Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

    I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

    However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Substatic.6958Substatic.6958 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @Menaki.6329 said:
    It was a huge mistake to allow such tool, it has killed what was so precious on gw2. Playing the game and the profession just for itself and not for the numbers and highest dps.

    You could never ever "play how you want" in a pug speedrun group.

    Thats proplem caused players not devs, you could however do your own lfg with ur reguirments

    But It is caused by the devs. The Druid, Chrono, PS Trinity (on top of silly DPS deltas) causes group issues that aren't as extreme as in other MMOs. The result is very limited group comps for incredibly superior run times for any serious content. Imagine if WoW only had 1 good healing spec, 1 tank spec, and only 1 spec with Bloodlust. That would be horrific and raid/mythic participation would flat line...like in GW2.

  • Verenhimo.3296Verenhimo.3296 Member ✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:
    Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

    I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

    However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

    A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

    And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

    Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

    Same with a quest tracker.

    Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

    Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

    This also works in reverse, WoW still has voice chat within the game client, it's still there, it's not accessible, but the developers pretty much conceded that they'll never make a product as feature rich as ventrillo/mumble/ts3 for people at the time

    Same reason they've given up on DPS meters, they've become so feature rich and tailed to very specific gleaming of data, some want to just know what killed them in the last 4 seconds, some what to know who dispelled what, at what time the dispel was cast, where they were when it was cast, was it metzen in the shower with the crowbar? etc - I mean you can LITERALLY follow a raid's actions perfectly and visualize it in 2D because of parsing addons (example - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qx7TkFfMKbHm3P9w#fight=1&view=replay // click replay in the top right, then click play in the bottom left)

    DBM springs to mind aswell, all raid encounters are fully designed with the knowledge that the player WILL have Deadly Boss Mods to time everything down to perfection, same goes for bosses with very strict dps checks, they know you'll be monitoring the raids DPS atall times to reach the goal.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:
    Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

    I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

    However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

    A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

    And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

    Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

    Same with a quest tracker.

    Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

    Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

    This also works in reverse, WoW still has voice chat within the game client, it's still there, it's not accessible, but the developers pretty much conceded that they'll never make a product as feature rich as ventrillo/mumble/ts3 for people at the time

    Same reason they've given up on DPS meters, they've become so feature rich and tailed to very specific gleaming of data, some want to just know what killed them in the last 4 seconds, some what to know who dispelled what, at what time the dispel was cast, where they were when it was cast, was it metzen in the shower with the crowbar? etc - I mean you can LITERALLY follow a raid's actions perfectly and visualize it in 2D because of parsing addons (example - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qx7TkFfMKbHm3P9w#fight=1&view=replay // click replay in the top right, then click play in the bottom left)

    DBM springs to mind aswell, all raid encounters are fully designed with the knowledge that the player WILL have Deadly Boss Mods to time everything down to perfection, same goes for bosses with very strict dps checks, they know you'll be monitoring the raids DPS atall times to reach the goal.

    a lot said... I am sure I would have had to play WoW to understand it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:
    Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

    I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

    However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

    A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

    And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

    Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

    Same with a quest tracker.

    Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

    Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

    Exactly, its all about a QoL upgrade, there are a lot of players that don't want to have to depend on add-ons, overlays, and 3rd party software, they want to just play the game, and some things should just be standard features, and a performance meter is one of them.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Oh god no!!!! Not GEAR SCORE, that which killed WOW and all that was good and great with its raids. I shudder just to think......

    There's no reason to take the hyperbolic gear score nonsense seriously. What's the point of such a system in a game that effectively does not have stuff like item levels?

    Agreed, but people will try anything.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Oh god no!!!! Not GEAR SCORE, that which killed WOW and all that was good and great with its raids. I shudder just to think......

    There's no reason to take the hyperbolic gear score nonsense seriously. What's the point of such a system in a game that effectively does not have stuff like item levels?

    Agreed, but people will try anything.

    Now that's true in multiple directions ...

    Praise delta!

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:
    I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

    This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

    Not to mention the golem does not account team play, where other players using AoE boons, like banners for example.

    It... does though...?

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:
    Just as a footnote, not even World of Warcraft with it's years and years of work & FFXIV have home grown DPS meters, most developers have pretty much coceeded that the job is best left to the playerbase to create there own tools around there own needs. (Such as top guilds in WoW having there own custom bossmods & dps meters that are private.)

    I am going to disagree with this. When wow started DSP meters were not a thing, and originally were more fringe reserved only to the hardcore raider, their popularity has spiked, to the point that now they are viewed as a mandatory feature in any game with a raid, hence their arrival only after GW2 put in raids. Now, Blizzard has no need or motive to put one in, as their culture is older, it's built around the idea that things like DPS meters are still in the realm of 3rd party stuff, so it can play that card, of not their problem.

    However, GW2 is a newer MMO, and thus should cling to archaic concepts like that, Contribution Meters already exist in GW2, and are distinctly not the realm of fringe 3rd party stuff anymore, they are at this point, standard features that should come with any new raid, o in any MMO that plans to raid.

    A developer has every need to put in, there are so many things in WoW that we're just addons that got made full fledged features over the course of the games history, you want your game to be a complete package and not have your players outsource themselves to 3rd party, sometimes resource hogging addon.

    And it's not like they've not taken measures to control what they feel are extremely toxic addons, remember gearscore? remember the crazy gearscore addons? and how blizzard had to curb it with average ilvl stat, remember the virtual reality addons that let you draw on the screen? so people would literally just play follow the drawn line in raids? - Blizzard has broken the API for SO, SO SO many unhealthy addons over the years.

    Remember how there was no ingame calendar before they imported nearly all of the work done on one calendar addon and made there own.

    Same with a quest tracker.

    Same with altasloot which served as the template for dungeon journal, postal, etcetcetc.

    Same with alot of things, because they went on record saying a startling amount of players play purely without addons, they need to make sure must have addons that are huge QoL are also available to the mass majority, too.

    Exactly, its all about a QoL upgrade, there are a lot of players that don't want to have to depend on add-ons, overlays, and 3rd party software, they want to just play the game, and some things should just be standard features, and a performance meter is one of them.

    I guess you missed the entire part that even a multimillion juggernaught like blizzard won't make there own dps meter because it's outside of the realm of need for a fair size of the playerbase, not to mention there unable to bring such a feature rich 3rd party app into the game reasonably because there always growing in feature creep.

    Raiders are very self serving, they know exactly what data they want presented to themselves, they'll be alot more secure once there is an offical addon API, if there ever is, untill then I highly, HIGHLY doubt anet will ever make one, and even if they did these people would still defer to the ones that cater to there needs (that's why there's 3-4 different dps meters in WoW with millions of downloads each, all doing different things.)

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    Then there isnt any dps meter, and you are insta kicked everytime you join a T4 for being a scourge, a spellbreaker, a power mesmer... While you are pretty experienced with those and can pull the highest dps of the party.
    So no dps meter would be a lot of worse, because elitism would still be the same and you wouldnt have a tool to prove you are pulling more then your weight

  • Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    The reason Crystal Desert is a host instead of Darkhaven is because of arc. We love arc.

    [VII] Spectre Legacy - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
    Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
    [VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OnizukaBR.8537 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    Then there isnt any dps meter, and you are insta kicked everytime you join a T4 for being a scourge, a spellbreaker, a power mesmer... While you are pretty experienced with those and can pull the highest dps of the party.
    So no dps meter would be a lot of worse, because elitism would still be the same and you wouldnt have a tool to prove you are pulling more then your weight

    I played power mesmer for many years now and I never got kicked from a T4 fractal. And it's only post arcDPS creation that I started having issues with "Elitism" in pug groups.

    Honestly, it will be very hard for you to convince me that it is better now that the dps mater exist than before so don't even try.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Love them or hate them, they are a part of the game now, may as well have an in-game one, and not need to deal with 3rd party software and overlays.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    The reason Crystal Desert is a host instead of Darkhaven is because of arc. We love arc.

    kitten arc. Ecks Dee

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • marelooke.9708marelooke.9708 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

    Why? Anet would "share" "your" personal data even if they made a tool of their own. Why make a tool when the community is more than glad to do so?

    Now sure anet could make one and i like the idea of rewarding good players ( which could use more refining). But they have already given the green light to ppl to make by abet's design so it would be any diff.

    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    I'd much prefer they add an official combat log, they still get all of the above features but there wouldn't be a DPS meter in the game so only those who really cared would get to see it. (The way Blizzard does it for WoW, basically, at least, they didn't have an built-in dps meter when I still played, they did have a built-in combat log though)

    It might allow official support in third party parsers and remove the reliance on "single vendor" closed-source solutions (like Arc, raid-heroes, gw2raidar,...). I mean, if the dev for one of these quits for whatever reason we have nothing again. And if the Arc dev quits then when (if) something else then pops up then we would likely have to redo our parsers ... again.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    You joined a meta party. Something you shouldn't do if you don't give a kitten anymore, because you're grouping with people who do and you're pissing them off. Don't join meta parties, problem solved. Like I already said. I really don't like to repeat myself and I don't like when people insist that I do.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @marelooke.9708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

    Why? Anet would "share" "your" personal data even if they made a tool of their own. Why make a tool when the community is more than glad to do so?

    Now sure anet could make one and i like the idea of rewarding good players ( which could use more refining). But they have already given the green light to ppl to make by abet's design so it would be any diff.

    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    I'd much prefer they add an official combat log, they still get all of the above features but there wouldn't be a DPS meter in the game so only those who really cared would get to see it. (The way Blizzard does it for WoW, basically, at least, they didn't have an built-in dps meter when I still played, they did have a built-in combat log though)

    It might allow official support in third party parsers and remove the reliance on "single vendor" closed-source solutions (like Arc, raid-heroes, gw2raidar,...). I mean, if the dev for one of these quits for whatever reason we have nothing again. And if the Arc dev quits then when (if) something else then pops up then we would likely have to redo our parsers ... again.

    Solid point.. if it's 3rd party and the person taking care of it opts to just quit doing it.. that screws everyone. had that happen with the best controller software I ever had, the person who made it just quit.

    Just one more good reason for Anet to handle things.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @marelooke.9708 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

    Why? Anet would "share" "your" personal data even if they made a tool of their own. Why make a tool when the community is more than glad to do so?

    Now sure anet could make one and i like the idea of rewarding good players ( which could use more refining). But they have already given the green light to ppl to make by abet's design so it would be any diff.

    Better Quality Product, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, and it would eliminates disagreement among the players, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

    I'd much prefer they add an official combat log, they still get all of the above features but there wouldn't be a DPS meter in the game so only those who really cared would get to see it. (The way Blizzard does it for WoW, basically, at least, they didn't have an built-in dps meter when I still played, they did have a built-in combat log though)

    It might allow official support in third party parsers and remove the reliance on "single vendor" closed-source solutions (like Arc, raid-heroes, gw2raidar,...). I mean, if the dev for one of these quits for whatever reason we have nothing again. And if the Arc dev quits then when (if) something else then pops up then we would likely have to redo our parsers ... again.

    the game has a combatlog, but you have to make a second tab for it, and it's highly inaccurate.

  • Verenhimo.3296Verenhimo.3296 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    I'm going to be that guy here, honestly doing less damage than a chrono is kind of kitten, but at the end of the day fractals can be completed with everyone autoattacking, there not hard, and it's not a reason to roast you over.

    That being said if you join peoples groups on a class you don't have any knowledge how to play, even on a surface level, I would imagine people will get mad at you for more than just low DPS, you're effectively wasting there time by not caring about the content and respecting their time.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    You joined a meta party. Something you shouldn't do if you don't give a kitten anymore, because you're grouping with people who do and you're pissing them off. Don't join meta parties, problem solved. Like I already said. I really don't like to repeat myself and I don't like when people insist that I do.

    I pugged a random T4 fractal that had no description. I avoid all the parties that people ask for specific professions because I know what kind of people I will be dealing with, but I still ended up with one of these kitten in my party... Honestly, I don't understand why someone obsessed with DPs meter would be pugging a fractal anywy... I'm pretty sure he problably have a competent PvE guild that do this content. Or maybe he isn't competent enough to be in one of these and rather come annoy people in pug parties.

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    Can we just don't have a DPS meter at all? I hate having some tryhard to annoy me because I'm not running a meta build that should be doing more dps than I currently do.

    It's a tool. It's not a prerequisite for playing the game. Don't use it, problem solved. Don't join meta parties, another problem solved.

    Other day I was playing my Weaver for the lulz (I have absolutely no idea of how to properly play Weaver) in some pug T4 fractals (Not Nightmare or Shattered) and I had this one guy complaining that I was being outdps'ed by a Chrono... Yeah, I don't use arcDPS because I don't give a kitten about dps meters anymore (I quit PvE hardcoring when I quit WoW 5 years ago) but there are those who use, and will talk kitten when they see you're not performing "as you should".

    I curse the guy who made arcDPS every single day.

    You joined a meta party. Something you shouldn't do if you don't give a kitten anymore, because you're grouping with people who do and you're pissing them off. Don't join meta parties, problem solved. Like I already said. I really don't like to repeat myself and I don't like when people insist that I do.

    I pugged a random T4 fractal that had no description. I avoid all the parties that people ask for specific professions because I know what kind of people I will be dealing with, but I still ended up with one of these kitten in my party... Honestly, I don't understand why someone obsessed with DPs meter would be pugging a fractal anywy... I'm pretty sure he problably have a competent PvE guild that do this content. Or maybe he isn't competent enough to be in one of these and rather come annoy people in pug parties.

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    I'm thinking the latter is the most correct option, but I still think Anet should in a meter, like they have in PvP, that tracks a whole lot more then just DPS.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre.

    If that's true then they failed. They gave in and added raids when reworked dungeons/5 man content could have filled that role perfectly. Then dps meters. Who know what's the next silly feature coming from wow? item level? world first leaderboards? Garrisons? Farming to keep your gear fed?

    Expecting game devs not to take the easiest route these days is rather delusional. They see wow makes profit and has tons of raids so of course they copy wow and call it a day. One could argue that raids are rather different from the wow ones and I'd agree, to some extent. They're more similar to inferior version of wildstar ones. At least wildstar was clear about being a raiding MMO from the start though, and they had a proper interface, proper telegraphs, and not this monstrosity that looks like the aborted child of hiroshima and a christmas tree. I mean, look at any GW2 raid video, it's just a huge mess of flysing kitten all over the place. Giant, obnixious effects in your face all the kitten time. They're not anti blizzard, they're chasing them, and worse, they're chasing them with an UI and a game that was never meant to support raids. What kind of MMOs has aoe damage telegraphs hidden under layers of kitten in high end group content? What kind of mmos makes aoe telegraphs not having a solid red color that you cannot miss? None except this one.

    So yeah back on the dps meter topic, if they really want to support that feature then they should make one. Like they should support raids with a proper and comprehensive visual overhaul of the game if that's the direction they want to take. At least that would be anti blizzard for once lol. They're really the kings of half done jobs of the MMO industry.

  • I don't mind DPS meter, but.

    Maybe instead of getting something from WoW why does this game still have zero UI Customization? Cant even move target bar rofl.

    Is GW2 ideology to not copy anything from GW1 even?

  • Verenhimo.3296Verenhimo.3296 Member ✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre.

    If that's true then they failed. They gave in and added raids when reworked dungeons/5 man content could have filled that role perfectly. Then dps meters. Who know what's the next silly feature coming from wow? item level? world first leaderboards? Garrisons? Farming to keep your gear fed?

    And how are raids literally just not bigger group content? there is a desire for big group content too do with more than 5 of your friends, if you can honestly list any way raids are different to CM fractals or shattered/nightmare outside of scope & player count, I'd happily concede on this point.

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre.

    If that's true then they failed. They gave in and added raids when reworked dungeons/5 man content could have filled that role perfectly. Then dps meters. Who know what's the next silly feature coming from wow? item level? world first leaderboards? Garrisons? Farming to keep your gear fed?

    And how are raids literally just not bigger group content? there is a desire for big group content too do with more than 5 of your friends, if you can honestly list any way raids are different to CM fractals or shattered/nightmare outside of scope & player count, I'd happily concede on this point.

    It's mostly due to a lower barrier of entry. It's far easier to gather 5 players than 10 for an equivalent mechanical challenge.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Verenhimo.3296 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Kundry.1249 said:
    Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

    ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre.

    If that's true then they failed. They gave in and added raids when reworked dungeons/5 man content could have filled that role perfectly. Then dps meters. Who know what's the next silly feature coming from wow? item level? world first leaderboards? Garrisons? Farming to keep your gear fed?

    And how are raids literally just not bigger group content? there is a desire for big group content too do with more than 5 of your friends, if you can honestly list any way raids are different to CM fractals or shattered/nightmare outside of scope & player count, I'd happily concede on this point.

    Ins't scope the whole problem with raids to start with. But, to answer your question, last I looked, which was quite a while ago, raids, unlike fractals, had roles that needed to be filled, like Condi, Power, Tank, Healer, and things like Knockback abilities, etc, as a mandatory to complete the encounter, where fractals., again, last I looked.. do not have such needed roles to be filled.

    I could be wrong, as it's been a while, but I don't think I read anywhere where they removed the special roles from raids, or added them to fractals.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
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  • Llethander.3972Llethander.3972 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2017

    That feeling when a mod that reads combat data is called "third-party spyware" and "invasive". I feel someone doesn't know what either of those terms actually means...

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