Engineer underperforming in Small Scale ?

Hey guys,

i guess the title should clearly state what this diskussion should be about.

In my opinion Anet has nerfed engineer at at too many levers, so that espacially in WvWvW i feel im underperforming against all other classes.

I am maining Engineer since before HOT release and i never felt that much "tryhardness" to 1v1 against equally skilled players.

I mean in sPvP im absolut fine with the spot the engi is in with scrapper and holo, but in WvWvW small scale there is no place for engi in the meta.

I felt like i have to adress my opinion here and im really interested what you guys think about the actuall stand of our profession.

Greetings Vipex.

Stealth, invoulnerability, moa - three things thats made me turn would be outnumbered losses into victory and given me the tools needed to support my allies.

The thing is, other classes can do these things as well, but few are so flexible they can do all of them... It even apply within the engineer since scrapper/holo does other things than moa.

The engie has been nerfed indeed but I find I perform decent enough on condi core. The power nerf helped some. Its a rare class to find outside zerg healers (or zerg dps nowadays), but I still meet a few good holos/scrappers from time to time.

Its insanely hard to define whether you met an "equally skilled" opponent because despite any meta, the range of builds are very wide compared to sPvP, the range of skill even wider and the situation of engagement a chasm. I've been roflstomped so hard people would probably laugh, yet met the same enemy shortly after only to win... and of course vice versa.

I don't play much these days so, I might be off, but in some duels I made, I felt like you are forced to abuse to most broken skills and traits to be competitive. On Holo your bar is locked to S/Wall/U,+ drop all anticondi traits when fighting power builds and so on. The moment I got creative with builds the performance droped dramatically. Scrapper was never a 1v1 spec imho and core engi is just super outdated and a lot of skills clunky to use. Few matchups work nonetheless ofcourse like corecondi vs corewar. At the end balance is just bad in WvW since Anet refuses to acknowledge it as an competitive mode and copy paste spvp rules.

Core condi engi now can be quite good in small scale fights . Obviously the play style is different from holo or scrapper but now it is much better than in the recent past

@EUmad.7645 said:Core condi engi now can be quite good in small scale fights . Obviously the play style is different from holo or scrapper but now it is much better than in the recent past

Don't know. From my experience decent opponents just run sigil of cleansing + on demand clean/transfere, avoid torch and CC/pressure you agressive. For me it doesn't feel stronger with nerfed HT and burn. AED is fun but gets outplayed easily even when traited.

drunk post.. ignore. :open_mouth:

Holosmith overperforming and core underperforming

Let me give my opinion on the current state of some skills / traits on Engineer, with a more acute focus on Gadgeteers.

As it stands to me there are a few under-performing weapons / skills that make the Engineer non-competitive. Having said that the context for these critiques is for WvW performance.

TraitsSD aka Static DischargeThe current damage is fine (in PvE) granted the number of bounces if you only use it to tag mobs and receive credit. This trait is woefully weak in WvW and considerations should be made increase it's potential. Maybe it receives a flat damage increase with or without a bounce target decrease, or it does more percentage damage accord to how many boons the player or the target has, or maybe it transfers conditions from the user per bounce.

WeaponsHammerThe auto-attack chain doesn't offer enough pressure to use in melee. This makes Hammer into your UTILITY BAR instead of any other skills that you've equipped. Having said that equipping two utility bars is a recipe for disaster.

RifleAgain the auto-attack chain is woefully weak and it doesn't matter how much power you invest. Consider giving the Engineer increased damage or the ability to apply a condition or gain a boon from this skill. As it stands this makes P/P or P/S better options in, what feels to me, to be all cases.

Utilities / Tool belt SkillsMinefield (utility belt skill)Due to it's long cast time, random boon stripping results, random and inconsistent mine location, melee only use (very high risk) and basic damage, it is currently a high risk, inconsistent result skill. In some fights where if you pull it off perfectly (target is at a low enough percentage, you trip them up long enough to drop the thunder) there is significant chance that you won't down the target even in the best of scenarios.

Having said all of that. It needs to not be so random that it's unreliable. The boon strip results need to be consistent and considering that the Engineer now has become such a stranger to certain boons that it now has to search Google the definition of stability - this melee, high risk, long cast time, telegraphed skill ought to do more damage than it currently does. To be frank, currently opponents don't even mind walking through these. Among the other recommendations maybe even consider having each mine do more damage if it strips boons.

Superspeed (utility belt skill)For some reason a lot of skills that break stun have gotten one stack of stability for one or two seconds but this skill doesn't seem to need it. You can push this button and feel like nothing has happened against some opponents and it is worst yet in group fights.

Throw Mine (utility skill)Un-traited this skill could offer the engineer 5 stacks of might for 5 seconds after detonation in order to boost damage from the next attacks. An older generation of The Gadgeteer benefited from this on the Utility Googles skill (it was longer duration might), making The Gadgeteer competitive. This is an attempt to restore some of The Gadgeteer's overall performance and yes, I am implying that it should get 10 stacks of might for 5 seconds from traited (drops 2 mines) Throw mine detonation.

Utility Googles and it's Utility SkillI don't run it.. I also don't know what would make me want to run it. I'm of the opinion that the Utility Belt skill could be completely replaced (WvW people are going to go mental here?). I'm just going to throw an alternative little something out there.. Maybe it could create a Darkness Bubble (or dome) of 400 radius (800 range total) of Dark Field type which reveals on the first pulse, applies 5 stacks of vulnerability on the second pulse and grants fury on the third pulse on 5 targets all effects lasting for 5 seconds.

Rifle TurretNeeds some oats or did I forget to remove a whole belt of rubber bullets? I'd increase the stacks of vulnerability to 2 stacks when overcharged or increase the damage when overcharged per hit (stacking between 2- 5% increase per overcharged shot). The stacks change might be better for most opponents.. since people generally seem to be disinterested in adds (minions, bots, AI etc) existing in the game.

Static Shock (AED Utility Belt)Is 20 seconds CD reasonable here? Consider keeping the CD and also making it remove 3-5 boons. This way it can be used more effectively as a set-up for Minefield combo against opponents, especially those that passively gain boons like protection on hit, after a dodge roll, etc.

ConclusionOverall, yes you can win some fights as a Gadgeteer against the low armor opponents, who (from the looks of things) typically are unprepared (most people don't know what a Gadgeteer is these days). Granted that I'm not so sure that I really won those fights or whether I just got lucky enough. Against similarly skilled opponents, it is definitely a losing affair when your setup randomly under performs (you will potentially be fighting people forever until they figure out that AED is a thing, then you immediately lose) for long enough that your opponent is able to figure out (learn) what your end game is and play around it.

You can already be outplayed/countered by opponents who simply pay attention/observe what's going on (which to me is a better trade off than a Gadgeteer losing because he or she randomly might be able to kill you, even when they do everything right) therefore performance should be rewarding to those players who can weather the storm of Engineer in melee combat, land the setup and bring the thunder (minefield detonation).

Again, this is my opinion. What's yours? Is there something in here that makes sense or would be useful? What's your experience running a Gadgeteer in WvW?

@LilBiM.3581 said:snip

I was typing a long, detailed post, but all I'll say is, most of Gadget skills are very underwhelming and not powerful enough to be considered useful for Engineer. We depend on utility skill much more than other professions because of the lack of weapon swap. There is very limited pool of useful skills (Elixir U, Bulwark Gyro) that offer both defensive and offensive values, and then there's Throw Mine that does no damage and tiny CC, same for PBR.Utility Goggles are a joke skill ANet changed to show us they still remeber there is an Engineer profession, it's used only during the opening of GvGs and swapped immediately after toolbelt skill is used. Getting caught in combat with them still on the skillbar is punishing not only for you but for the whole squad.

If 15v15 PvP mode will ever see the daylight the skill won't be ever used as it's not possible to swap skills during PvP match.

Turrets are not used because:

1. they go down too fast if you accidently place them in an AoE;
2. they do 1 thing and then turn off, god forbid you forget to pick them up or explode immediately to start recharging them. There are much more useful utility skills like Elixirs.

Every time engi utility skills are being spoken of I need to hold myself to not start ranting and swearing about ANet's balancing and skill design teams.

Engineer is kind of umderwhelming everywhere maybe less in pvp. They kill my perk, aim assit rockect.... why the 450 its not fun to play around this... it feel like Im fighting the game mechanic not my enemy...