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Guild Wars 2: Remastered

I adress this forum post to all developers working on the latest releases.
I've discussed World Polishing before but what I really wish for is a remastered version of GW2.

Textures are all the same. Switching to another engine would only allow us to have better detail culling transparent textures and allows players to experience a higher framerate with more detail when zooming in.

Now from what I'm aware off is that the GW2 engine is the same as GW1's. This was because the original engine was good enough to provide people an experience like walking through a painting wich I very much appreciate.

Nonetheless there are many many people who suffer from overheating computers and low framerates still dedicated to GW2 for a reason. It's a perfect unique game with it's own lore and own way of storytelling. This could be easily solved if it was so easy to convert DX9 to DX12 Ultimate (with RTX and Ansel provided by Nvidia)
Now I can't look in Anet's wallet so I don't know if it's too much to cost to buy licences for a new engine but heck.. there are even free possibilities like Unreal engine provides us nowdays.

Why I feel stubborn enough to ask for a Remastered version is because I have helped developing other games that released around 2002.
I'm aware of polycount restrictions and texture minimizing for optimal use.. but isn't this way of working getting outdated?
With technology ike RTX simple reflections in ice or water would be far more detailed and immerges the player to love this game even more.
Another game called Black Dessert has remastered their game. Why can't anet?

About my thoughts on world polishing is a better way of guided by the lore of gw2 to update for example divinities reach castles in the sky that once were unreachable and now manditory for flying skyscale. The player finds out unrealistic balconies and doors that are even too smal for an asura to enter placed as mere scenery.

In the times of GW1 I wished for bump mapping and a day and night cycle. this GW2 has nailed because I love the way Supersample works although some still set it too native because of unrealistic lightning.

As our eyes confined to games getting more detailed every year our eyes are spoiled. Graphicwise/mechinacly and the high engine output that only allows people to play with more than decent desktops. I hope GW2 has the ambition to grow likewise by the effort other engines put into their game to optimize eyecandy for our lazy eyes that strive for the players mind to set priority ingame. GW2 has done a good job bringing out more visuals like infusions and legendary trinkets... But people still log off and they poof away into nothingness, Though when entering a portal the character has a nice transition to the other portal. maybe lorewise there could open possibilities to allow the player to log off but actually "standby" in the lore of gw2.

Cantha is upon us and I couldn't be more thrilled about this increddible expansion. I just really hope it's not in vain for those players who seek eyecandy to the fullest extend like I do.

GW2 is directX9 having an engine that only uses one CPU core. In a remastered version I'd imagine highering framerates and more "polishing" those ugly textures ore onesided ones to have as low polygons as the measure takes.

Question is: Is a remastered version of GW2 possible so we don't have to wait for GW3? honestly i dont think that's ever gonna happen. GW2 has all the assets a player needs to have fun in such an amazing game.

With all respect and love for the one's behind the screens.
I hope the community can work together with the developers to inspire this game to be timeless as much as possible.

With love and being faithful,
Van Marle

~ ▪ ☽ ★ ▪ Y ▪ U ▪ M ▪ I ▪ ★ ☾ ▪ ~

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Comments

  • huluobo.7036huluobo.7036 Member ✭✭✭

    Replacing the engine may mean layoffs again, the old engine does not need to be maintained

  • Veryl.7861Veryl.7861 Member ✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

    Personally if something needs working on graphically, it is less the engine etc, but more the visaal noise with all the horrific infusions, particle effects and other eye sores which have become a plague in this game and have very much taken away from what was a decent base art style for the game in favour of trying to clash as many out of place things as possible.

    At least in my opinion anyway

    When first I played GW1 and saw game footage of gw2 my first thoughts were "What's going on.. why is everything clipping and clustered.
    I believe Anet chose wisely to do so. Heck I'd love to combine a chakk eggsac with some more but I can imagine it's frustrating some people overdo their styles lowering framerates for others in a map like in Mistlock Sanctuary. We won't defeat male norns wearing pink allover wielding a fairy wand but.. the idea behind these exploitations is that players can customize their role into their character displayed on screen. The noise also called "clustered" is a thing I don't nescesary worry about.
    With modifications to the engine (if possible) like update it to DX12 would solve so many problems for so many people playing for the mechanics and not the looks.
    With more than one core to use and better dissolvement of framerates lowering noone would complain other than seeing a trolling pink norn with a fairy wand.

    I often complained about people that tease the game choosing their unique character names to be titles themselves or funny puns.
    What I'd hoped for is people to choose real names other than naming their toon "Big pink knight" etc.
    When creating my character I treat it like a baby to bloom in my perfect vision. I agree some infusions are like showing off how much money they poured in their souls to look not epic. but clustered. GW2 always been clustered and they warned us for that in "upcoming features" they released when GW1 was still actively played.
    When I first looked at the first images of gw2 I had no idea what I saw. But like I mentioned before. People get used to new ideas and comprimises.

    A little more detail in how booleans destruct and stay instead of merging with the floor (like Khylo) and more physics to enhance player's experience to feel victorious defeating a simple troll would allow us to see it die the same way every troll dies.

    Ofcourse this shouldn't result into players KD'ing corpses all over. Ofcourse new content comes first. but have a little patience so we won't have to enjoy a half assed product.

    ~ ▪ ☽ ★ ▪ Y ▪ U ▪ M ▪ I ▪ ★ ☾ ▪ ~

  • Veryl.7861Veryl.7861 Member ✭✭
    edited April 4, 2020

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.

    The biggest drawback of the current engine is that it doesn't thread graphics very well, but this is mostly solved with the advent of D9VK/DXVK/dx12pxy, which handle it in a way that ArenaNet doesn't even have to maintain, which is better for them.

    The game would not necessarily "look better" either, all modern 3D APIs have the same set of features that you've had since around Direct3D 9/10 and OpenGL 2.x, because almost everything has been exported back to historical APIs with vendor-specific functionality, with a few exceptions, and ArenaNet already uses alot of these features. The way the game looks comes as a result of it being an MMO and even with its low resolution textures and limited materials and shaders still already has a 40GB datafile, having HD graphics in particular would push this up to 400-500GB.

    This is why many modern games are at least 50GB+ when they're just single player games with a low amount of content. And besides this, those games don't even have to maintain backwards compatibility with existing content without regressions, while GW2 does.

    Lastly some of the biggest problems affecting the game right now are on the server side, namely skill lag, which is what really makes environments with alot of players unplayable; I can deal with 10-15 FPS in the worst case scenarios, I can't deal with people teleporting, rubberbanding, being in the wrong place visually so they can't be finished or revived, or skills taking up to 1-2mins to even cast.

    Would a new engine help? Yes. Would it look better? Possibly.

    What would it cost?

    An entire expansion's worth of revenue, and that could mean months or even years without any new content while we wait for it to be developed. The reason other companies are able to do it is because they use money from their other games, or from investors, not from the game they're working on. Even with all of Blizzard's resources for example they failed to properly remaster Warcraft 3.

    I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

    I couldn't agree with you more...
    Though I still hope GW2 sets a future equal to our development of next gen gaming. Maybe after Cantha... or a living story after that... We'll be surprised with content delivered remastered for optimal game pleasure.. I didn't intend to mean that this has to do be done now. But its wise to think it will in the future.
    ...And Anet will have an extra chance selling the game in it's ultimate form.

    With RTX and a full advertising of Nvidia the game's population would rise alot.
    Arenanet always seemed working in solitude, not caring about implenting latest advancements but..heck Doom1 is already RTX optimized.
    Why can't Arenanet do that?

    Edit: I'm aware of DX12pxy but I'm also aware this allows players to crash more often, having to reinstall their game.

    ~ ▪ ☽ ★ ▪ Y ▪ U ▪ M ▪ I ▪ ★ ☾ ▪ ~

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd personally love it. I mean if bdo can do it and have a mmo with amazing graphics,im sure arenanet can do the same. Even a remastered version, that doesn't use a different engine but better lights and shadow seems like a great idea. I don't think we'll see it though.

  • Hopefully

    This game mainly depends on its graphics and action combat just like bdo

  • MikeG.6389MikeG.6389 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2020

    "My suggestions for World Polish:
    Step 1: Port the game to another engine."

    Um... I don't think I need to read any further. You are late 3 days.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2020

    Try using gamebooster, it worked wonders with my RX 580. I was struggling to catch more fps on highest settings until I used it now things are ultra smooth. Also if you're using arcdps remove it, you don't actually need it, just have your leads or team members give you the stats, I had several crashes using it. There's also something I use called AI tweaks from RoG that allows me to tweak fan settings, I use that and blast it on high so my system doesn't crash from heat.

    I swear it's like playing a whole different game. I was exploring Orr and didn't even realize how...awesome it actually looks with good graphics.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really want them to do a remaster on skill effects, most of them have this aethereal, semi translusent look with a kitten tone of glow added to them for good messure, so an animation/effect pass could help make the game more optimised, clean and readable.

    Before any graphical updates to zones i think anet needs to focus on fully enabling multicore support as well as updating their rendering tech for armors and weapons. After that the lighting tools as from what i understand lighting can often make old looking stuff look great (minecraft comes to mind).

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.

    The biggest drawback of the current engine is that it doesn't thread graphics very well, but this is mostly solved with the advent of D9VK/DXVK/dx12pxy, which handle it in a way that ArenaNet doesn't even have to maintain, which is better for them.

    The game would not necessarily "look better" either, all modern 3D APIs have the same set of features that you've had since around Direct3D 9/10 and OpenGL 2.x, because almost everything has been exported back to historical APIs with vendor-specific functionality, with a few exceptions, and ArenaNet already uses alot of these features. The way the game looks comes as a result of it being an MMO and even with its low resolution textures and limited materials and shaders still already has a 40GB datafile, having HD graphics in particular would push this up to 400-500GB.

    This is why many modern games are at least 50GB+ when they're just single player games with a low amount of content. And besides this, those games don't even have to maintain backwards compatibility with existing content without regressions, while GW2 does.

    Lastly some of the biggest problems affecting the game right now are on the server side, namely skill lag, which is what really makes environments with alot of players unplayable; I can deal with 10-15 FPS in the worst case scenarios, I can't deal with people teleporting, rubberbanding, being in the wrong place visually so they can't be finished or revived, or skills taking up to 1-2mins to even cast.

    Would a new engine help? Yes. Would it look better? Possibly.

    What would it cost?

    An entire expansion's worth of revenue, and that could mean months or even years without any new content while we wait for it to be developed. The reason other companies are able to do it is because they use money from their other games, or from investors, not from the game they're working on. Even with all of Blizzard's resources for example they failed to properly remaster Warcraft 3.

    I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

    Or they could have the engine work as a background longterm project like poe has with poe2 while they put out their normal updates. Anet doesnt also need to drop the entire thing in one go, they can take diff things and rework them and ship them one at a time over a period of time. Like they can first work on proper dx12 support, then go a lighting rework, then upgrade their renderer to something that plays more nicely with 3d or smth like that, then maybe do graphical passes on older zones, do an animation pass on classes and a pass on the visual effects of skills, cutting the clutter and optimising them to be less intense for the pc.

    They could also introduce options to hide alot of the visual clutter and effects which could potenrially further boost the game's performance no?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

    Personally if something needs working on graphically, it is less the engine etc, but more the visaal noise with all the horrific infusions, particle effects and other eye sores which have become a plague in this game and have very much taken away from what was a decent base art style for the game in favour of trying to clash as many out of place things as possible.

    At least in my opinion anyway

    I mean, isnt that like saying "if anet was working on an expansion we wouldnt see lw for the entirety of its developement" which we know isnt the case, i believe snet is capable of having diff projects running in paralel with diff amounts of attention and man power dedicated to them.

    Poe is seemingly doing it fine, so did bdo too, i trust anet can do it as well if they decide to do it.

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First of all, GW2 engine is based on the GW1 engine, but it is heavily modified. Although it is called an engine, it is not a package easily distributed to third party's, it is an integrated part of the game.

    But more important to how it could be done, is why.

    It would give better graphics, but with a price. People would be forced to upgrade their PC or laptop to better performance. One thing GW always did good is that it was easily accessible to new players who never played a game before. By changing things it would mean also changing this. It would also move the audience of the game to a more hard-core audience.

    I personally also think that in this light, this is not the right moment to do so. We are moving to a new era with streaming games. That would be the perfect time to do such a thing. It would mean that people with poor specs can still play this upgraded game. People with poor internet could still play it in the classic way and only those with poor specs and poor internet would be left behind.

    But at this moment it is too early to take such a step. Maybe in 2 - 3 years.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.
    it is expected that new games will require better pcs. and it is expected that MMOs have to be contantly upgrading their graphics too, it shows on all of them if you compare the vanilla zones to the newer ones.
    But sometimes it isn't enough anymore and a massive overhaul is needed. like the remastered mode in BDO or the new character models in WoW. Now the question is if gw2 is in that moment now or not.

  • Veryl.7861Veryl.7861 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2020

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    First of all, GW2 engine is based on the GW1 engine, but it is heavily modified. Although it is called an engine, it is not a package easily distributed to third party's, it is an integrated part of the game.

    But more important to how it could be done, is why.

    It would give better graphics, but with a price. People would be forced to upgrade their PC or laptop to better performance. One thing GW always did good is that it was easily accessible to new players who never played a game before. By changing things it would mean also changing this. It would also move the audience of the game to a more hard-core audience.

    I personally also think that in this light, this is not the right moment to do so. We are moving to a new era with streaming games. That would be the perfect time to do such a thing. It would mean that people with poor specs can still play this upgraded game. People with poor internet could still play it in the classic way and only those with poor specs and poor internet would be left behind.

    But at this moment it is too early to take such a step. Maybe in 2 - 3 years.

    @coso.9173 said:
    all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.
    it is expected that new games will require better pcs. and it is expected that MMOs have to be contantly upgrading their graphics too, it shows on all of them if you compare the vanilla zones to the newer ones.
    But sometimes it isn't enough anymore and a massive overhaul is needed. like the remastered mode in BDO or the new character models in WoW. Now the question is if gw2 is in that moment now or not.

    I've experienced playing Guild Wars 2 on a laptop i3 or desktop i5 before I started upgrading.
    I could barely play with 5fps and because gw2 is the only game I've play, this forced me to upgrade to i7 with a 4gb graphicscard.
    I know I'm not the only one that thinks the engine of GW2 demands alot of cpu and memory...
    Even now with my new specs I get around 70fps wich is really high running this game,
    Although the majority of other games running 100fps smoothly and have better graphics I do not agree that gw2 is optimized for an audience that have low spec systems and lags/spikes in ping are everywhere.

    Streaming games heh.. That era will be far from now... People across the globe already complain about pings higher than 100.
    I know all about ping and scrapping textures from games to higher FPS and ping but GW2 needs a tremendous PC if you wish to play on max graphics.
    So I do agree that maybe it's moment is not now... But definately the moment to start discussing.

    Hopefully Arenanet's developers feel the same

    ~ ▪ ☽ ★ ▪ Y ▪ U ▪ M ▪ I ▪ ★ ☾ ▪ ~

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Veryl.7861 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    First of all, GW2 engine is based on the GW1 engine, but it is heavily modified. Although it is called an engine, it is not a package easily distributed to third party's, it is an integrated part of the game.

    But more important to how it could be done, is why.

    It would give better graphics, but with a price. People would be forced to upgrade their PC or laptop to better performance. One thing GW always did good is that it was easily accessible to new players who never played a game before. By changing things it would mean also changing this. It would also move the audience of the game to a more hard-core audience.

    I personally also think that in this light, this is not the right moment to do so. We are moving to a new era with streaming games. That would be the perfect time to do such a thing. It would mean that people with poor specs can still play this upgraded game. People with poor internet could still play it in the classic way and only those with poor specs and poor internet would be left behind.

    But at this moment it is too early to take such a step. Maybe in 2 - 3 years.

    @coso.9173 said:
    all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.
    it is expected that new games will require better pcs. and it is expected that MMOs have to be contantly upgrading their graphics too, it shows on all of them if you compare the vanilla zones to the newer ones.
    But sometimes it isn't enough anymore and a massive overhaul is needed. like the remastered mode in BDO or the new character models in WoW. Now the question is if gw2 is in that moment now or not.

    I've experienced playing Guild Wars 2 on a laptop i3 or desktop i5 before I started upgrading.
    I could barely play with 5fps and because gw2 is the only game I've play, this forced me to upgrade to i7 with a 4gb graphicscard.
    I know I'm not the only one that thinks the engine of GW2 demands alot of cpu and memory...
    Even now with my new specs I get around 70fps wich is really high running this game,
    Although the majority of other games running 100fps smoothly and have better graphics I do not agree that gw2 is optimized for an audience that have low spec systems and lags/spikes in ping are everywhere.

    Streaming games heh.. That era will be far from now... People across the globe already complain about pings higher than 100.
    I know all about ping and scrapping textures from games to higher FPS and ping but GW2 needs a tremendous PC if you wish to play on max graphics.
    So I do agree that maybe it's moment is not now... But definately the moment to start discussing.

    Hopefully Arenanet's developers feel the same

    I think, and that is the core of this discussion, is thatyou are not the target audiance to play on a low spec PC. I dissagree and know that 5FPS is very much playable. It doesn't look great, but it works and it is playable as long as you stay away from WvW and PvP formats. What is the bottom of excepted stats and how should it be judged. If the target is to attract new players (new to online gaming and the genre), they should say if the low stats are enough, not you or me.

  • GW Noob.6038GW Noob.6038 Member ✭✭✭

    New high-tech engine, like Unreal Engine 4? Yes, please!

    Blade & Soul is doing it...

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2020

    To be honest.... I would be happy with better performance.

    Upgrading hardware is no guarantee to improved performance. That shows how bad the engine is. I have new top of the line hardware, and can barely tell the difference with my 5 year old top of the line computer in World Bosses, big events, WVW. If Blade & Soul can do it, GW2 should be able to pull of the same feet. Neither of these machines should crawl to a halt.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2020

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    To be honest.... I would be happy with better performance.

    Upgrading hardware is no guarantee to improved performance. That shows how bad the engine is. I have new top of the line hardware, and can barely tell the difference with my 5 year old top of the line computer in World Bosses, big events, WVW. If Blade & Soul can do it, GW2 should be able to pull of the same feet. Neither of these machines should crawl to a halt.

    That is just silly. Blade&Soul uses UE3 and while an upgrade to UE4 is a large project that would require a ton of coding, its trivial in comparison to literally changing the entire engine for something totally different. Hell you got guides for it in their wiki (which is no longer online).

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    To be honest.... I would be happy with better performance.

    Upgrading hardware is no guarantee to improved performance. That shows how bad the engine is.

    Yes, a better performance/CPU utilization etc and a few updated textures is all this game needs. None of this:

    @GW Noob.6038 said:
    New high-tech engine, like Unreal Engine 4? Yes, please!

    Blade & Soul is doing it...

    Then go play Blade & Soul. Is there anything you don't want changed? More sci-fi, VR, no JPs, Unreal Engine... insane.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Veryl.7861 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    First of all, GW2 engine is based on the GW1 engine, but it is heavily modified. Although it is called an engine, it is not a package easily distributed to third party's, it is an integrated part of the game.

    But more important to how it could be done, is why.

    It would give better graphics, but with a price. People would be forced to upgrade their PC or laptop to better performance. One thing GW always did good is that it was easily accessible to new players who never played a game before. By changing things it would mean also changing this. It would also move the audience of the game to a more hard-core audience.

    I personally also think that in this light, this is not the right moment to do so. We are moving to a new era with streaming games. That would be the perfect time to do such a thing. It would mean that people with poor specs can still play this upgraded game. People with poor internet could still play it in the classic way and only those with poor specs and poor internet would be left behind.

    But at this moment it is too early to take such a step. Maybe in 2 - 3 years.

    @coso.9173 said:
    all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.
    it is expected that new games will require better pcs. and it is expected that MMOs have to be contantly upgrading their graphics too, it shows on all of them if you compare the vanilla zones to the newer ones.
    But sometimes it isn't enough anymore and a massive overhaul is needed. like the remastered mode in BDO or the new character models in WoW. Now the question is if gw2 is in that moment now or not.

    I've experienced playing Guild Wars 2 on a laptop i3 or desktop i5 before I started upgrading.
    I could barely play with 5fps and because gw2 is the only game I've play, this forced me to upgrade to i7 with a 4gb graphicscard.
    I know I'm not the only one that thinks the engine of GW2 demands alot of cpu and memory...
    Even now with my new specs I get around 70fps wich is really high running this game,
    Although the majority of other games running 100fps smoothly and have better graphics I do not agree that gw2 is optimized for an audience that have low spec systems and lags/spikes in ping are everywhere.

    Streaming games heh.. That era will be far from now... People across the globe already complain about pings higher than 100.
    I know all about ping and scrapping textures from games to higher FPS and ping but GW2 needs a tremendous PC if you wish to play on max graphics.
    So I do agree that maybe it's moment is not now... But definately the moment to start discussing.

    Hopefully Arenanet's developers feel the same

    i still have an old laptop based on core 2 duo yet it runs GW2 relatively fine, if you run on 5FPS with an i3 then it's time you lower your graphic settings and don't expect your laptop to do the same as a i7.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • GW Noob.6038GW Noob.6038 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    To be honest.... I would be happy with better performance.

    Upgrading hardware is no guarantee to improved performance. That shows how bad the engine is.

    Yes, a better performance/CPU utilization etc and a few updated textures is all this game needs. None of this:

    @GW Noob.6038 said:
    New high-tech engine, like Unreal Engine 4? Yes, please!

    Blade & Soul is doing it...

    Then go play Blade & Soul.

    I'm gunna...

    Is there anything you don't want changed? More sci-fi, VR, no JPs, Unreal Engine... insane.

    Are you stalking me? o.O

  • ArmoredVehicle.2849ArmoredVehicle.2849 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2020

    @Veryl.7861 said:
    Nonetheless there are many many people who suffer from overheating computers and low framerates still dedicated to GW2 for a reason. It's a perfect unique game with it's own lore and own way of storytelling. This could be easily solved if it was so easy to convert DX9 to DX12 Ultimate (with RTX and Ansel provided by Nvidia)
    Now I can't look in Anet's wallet so I don't know if it's too much to cost to buy licences for a new engine but heck.. there are even free possibilities like Unreal engine provides us nowdays.

    Just a few points I'd like to mention here.

    • People who suffer from overheating problems can break down to multiple factors (dust, clogged ventilations, dried up thermal paste, background tasks using cpu power), while GW2 is CPU intensive it doesn't stress it as much as one would imagine, the game is certainly not to blame here.
    • You speak of RTX as if everyone can afford or has one, also don't forget some GW2 players are also AMD users.
    • DX12 is a dead end API being locked to 1 OS and the Xbox (which is still Win10 based), Vulkan would be a much wiser choice due to its' wider cross platform support while still offering the same level of performance.
  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Only if they make it so it uses more of the graphics card and less of the processor as it uses a TON of processing power because when they made the game it was made with potato computers in mind. I think its safe to say we can move away from demanding the processor do most of the heavy lifting~

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.

    ~SNIP~

    I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

    The server software, or more technically the software that let's them update on the fly without shutting the servers down like every other game out there is not the problem, all those problems you talk about have nothing to do with the servers...have you bothered to look at a trace route from the AWS data center to your house? That's been the problem in the past and still is to this day in most(not all) cases of lag, and the fact they don't have it housed on servers in 10 different regions of the world(only 2 I'm aware of besides the one in China) one en Europe(Germany I believe) and one on the East Coast of the U.S.(somewhere in New York).

    The other thing is that you where right about, or whomever mentioned it, no one wants to wait a year or two while they completely rewrite the base engine to utilize all of today's bells and whistles(and multi-threading/multi-cores) so people can forget that idea from the get go.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Kanok.3027Kanok.3027 Member ✭✭✭

    @coso.9173 said:
    all MMOS slowly or quickly get better graphics, and those who can't get a better PC have to sadly suck it up and can't be used as an argument for not upgrading it. if it was the case we would still be playing text only adventure games or Atari.

    Just remember that not everyone can afford the latest and greatest. That's why the engine has not been updated. They have to cater to their biggest audience, the more casual gamers that might not be able to, or know how, to upgrade to a better system made for running a higher end system. If they kept the ability to use both graphics modes, old and new, then it would work out, but knowing the way most people just want them to get rid of the old and stick to the new, it would not work at all. They would alienate their more budget-conscious audience, which is the majority. I get the need and want for an updated engine to take advantage of modern hardware, but they have to find the best way to execute that without doing the above, which is not easy.

    A good example was Aion that had the original, not-as-pretty older engine and the newer, but still not that optimized, pretty graphics engine. They allowed you to choose between then two and it was nice since people with older system could still play without issue and people with beefier systems could enjoy the better graphics and overall improvements. If Anet can do that, I'm sure they would, but it doesn't seem feasible and literally telling people to suck it up and spend money they don't have to appease the more minor audience seems selfish, in my opinion. This is another factor as to why some older MMOs still have an audience. While I would love an upgraded engine, at the same time, I don't want people excluded for the sake of new, shiny graphics.

    I Rev, therefore I am. Don't ruin my favorite class, please and thank you.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2020

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The problem isn't the engine, this is a common misconception from players who don't know how modern computer graphics work.

    ~SNIP~

    I'd rather them put that money into polishing older content (like Central Tyria) up to expansion quality. And if anything needs a complete rewrite, I'd say its their server software because it just doesn't seem very efficient.

    The server software, or more technically the software that let's them update on the fly without shutting the servers down like every other game out there is not the problem, all those problems you talk about have nothing to do with the servers...have you bothered to look at a trace route from the AWS data center to your house? That's been the problem in the past and still is to this day in most(not all) cases of lag, and the fact they don't have it housed on servers in 10 different regions of the world(only 2 I'm aware of besides the one in China) one en Europe(Germany I believe) and one on the East Coast of the U.S.(somewhere in New York).

    The other thing is that you where right about, or whomever mentioned it, no one wants to wait a year or two while they completely rewrite the base engine to utilize all of today's bells and whistles(and multi-threading/multi-cores) so people can forget that idea from the get go.

    ArenaNet has confirmed that problems like skill lag are server-side, and have repeatedly implemented many workarounds, like 30min cooldown on summoning items, reducing map populations (WvW got reductions just from mounts being introduced), hiding minis, etc. Its also part of why alot of skills were nerfed to no longer summon minions, such as the Guardian weapons.

    The game even had server-side culling at one point because of the known deficiencies of the engine, but it was exploitable.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    Presuming Anet has metrics which shows them what hardware (and OS) people are using to play the game. They could probably require higher specs (nvidia 8800 is 13+ years old at this point) to something say 7 years old and not loose that many customers (and I wonder, if someone doesn't have the money to update their 13 year old laptop, is that person also spending much money on gems?)
    I'd have that with the expansion, maybe Anet can use it as a basis to spend some effort on engine improvements. Having it use multithreading effectively would be a big win for a lot of the user base, and a fairly minimal loss for those with cpus with 2 cores. However, only Anet themselves (or folks that have worked for them) really know how easy any updates are.
    However, I have to imagine that without some update, the game will slowly bleed out users - old users will get tired of poor performance, and new users will install the game and say 'performance sucks', and move to something that does perform well. Which long term would then not bode well for Anet or the game.

  • SinisterSlay.6973SinisterSlay.6973 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah lots of bad information here.
    Simply put, upgrading to DirectX12 would do nothing for performance. They would have to re-write the entire rendering pipeline to take advantage of it.

    They should be doing this, and I don't understand why they aren't. This game is the only thing keeping the company floating, and they don't appear to be planning for any eventualities like when AMD and nVidia stop caring about DX9 features in their cards.

    We can only hope they aren't idiots and are actually building something and just haven't told us. Maybe it will be the next expansion. It would explain why it took so long.

  • ScyeRynn.4218ScyeRynn.4218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2020

    That would be nice, but Anet will never do it. They can't even manage to get out new LW content properly or address QoL solutions without adding another layer of issues to the game. Remastering games is something Blizzard has more of a track record in. They should also remaster GW 1 before touching this.

    If there is ever new blood in the management team and finally someone with an actual vision for the game and its longevity, this might be possible.

  • Hawkeye.2308Hawkeye.2308 Member ✭✭

    I think the idea of a remastered version along with the older version would woud great to allow people with older and newer computers to be allowed to run it. I think its great to not limit themselves to a small % of the people who play games who are running the top of the line computers. I am fortunate enough to have a computer that can run it with other modern games but there was a point starting off where I didnt. Me personally, would rather have smaller content patches and allow a remastered or updated version that would run better the only downside will be the cost in resources to get it done.

    I think overall we will just end up dealing with it until a new game comes out or they surprise with the 3rd expansion being an overall updated version of the game. I think that would be the best option due to we know nothing about it and they could take that extra time to come out with a more stable and better optimized platform. I think the way GW2 is setup is the game can last for many more years by adding more living world and so on. I think dropping a GW3 so soon would be a bad thing when this game has a lot more areas and potential it could bring to the table to setup an even better foundation for the next game if there is one. My biggest complaint about GW2 compared to GW1 was I missed cross classing but it really wouldnt work well with the way this game is setup.

    All we can do is wait and hope that they actually read these and take some of these ideas into consideration. I think this game has a lot of potential and is a lot of fun even with the current engine and so on.

  • Timbersword.9014Timbersword.9014 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    @Kobi.8347 said:
    The games are huge cause the developers got lazy and don't compress the content to spare CPU cycles (mostly because the Xbox One and PS4 consoles have weak CPUs), there's lots of new features in both Vulkan and DirectX12 which help with assets management a lot, which show again you have no idea what you talking about.

    It's not laziness. Compression means a dip in quality. Games that take large amounts of disk space but happen to be "small" content wise are huge largely because of one if not two reasons - really big texture files (talking 2k-4k here,) and lossless audio. Art assets are just memory hogs all around. It's generally understood that the average piece of computer hardware is capable of producing some pretty good sound even if they can't make full use of high quality audio files, and disk space is only becoming more cost efficient, so file size for lossless audio is considered an acceptable trade off. 2k-4k textures are still in that sketchy territory where most people aren't going to be able to run them without their frame rates sweeping the floor.

    Otherwise, on the topic at hand, what really needs to happen is that Anet needs to upgrade their engine. At least Direct X 10-12 support. How their studio is set up and the funding available is the issue though. I don't expect the guys that would be coding in DX12 support to also be sculpting art assets, but they could probably be involved to some degree in event scripting. Really depends on how many hats everyone is expected to wear.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    If gw2 keeps going for many years to come, they'll be forced to upgrade eventually. The question is when.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd love to see an upgrade not only to the engine but graphically to core Tyria.
    The only reason I don't think it'd ever happen is because the time it would take to do this versus the payoff probably isn't worth it in Anet's eyes.

  • videoboy.4162videoboy.4162 Member ✭✭✭

    @SinisterSlay.6973 said:
    Yeah lots of bad information here.
    Simply put, upgrading to DirectX12 would do nothing for performance. They would have to re-write the entire rendering pipeline to take advantage of it.

    They should be doing this, and I don't understand why they aren't. This game is the only thing keeping the company floating, and they don't appear to be planning for any eventualities like when AMD and nVidia stop caring about DX9 features in their cards.

    We can only hope they aren't idiots and are actually building something and just haven't told us. Maybe it will be the next expansion. It would explain why it took so long.

    The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.

    I'm not sure that would be feasible. That might require a re-work of the entire code base for all of the content released prior to this expansion. To me, that seems like an awful amount of work. Would ANet trust the expansion release to not be marred by whatever was implemented to address the other portions of the code to upgrade the entire game?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

    There IS an engine team working at Arenanet, they are responsible for all the visual/engine upgrades we got over the years, starting with the new shaders required to make the karka skin back with southsun, the flame patches used by wyverns in Heart of Thorns and of course the new post processing in Path of Fire and onward. There is zero reason to believe that working on the engine and modernizing it would suddenly mean slower content releases. Character models, sounds, music, dialogue, text can remain the exact same between engine versions.

    Working on the engine would slow down content releases is like saying working on new mount skins will slow down releases. Different teams, different responsibilities.

  • videoboy.4162videoboy.4162 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    The whole time I was reading this thread, I was wondering if they could use the upcoming expansion as a way to improve/upgrade things.

    I'm not sure that would be feasible. That might require a re-work of the entire code base for all of the content released prior to this expansion. To me, that seems like an awful amount of work. Would ANet trust the expansion release to not be marred by whatever was implemented to address the other portions of the code to upgrade the entire game?

    I was probably unclear. I was thinking updating/upgrading in parts, not the whole thing at once. I know they do small-medium updates alongside the release of many of their other patches. I thought maybe an expansion would allow room for a larger one this time. Like, maybe the expansion came with an upgrade to Dx12 or maybe a group of texture enhancements to bring older armor more in line with newer armor. I didn't mean the expansion + an entirely new engine. =D

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That certainly makes more sense.

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭

    Just to make people aware that upgrading directx or other engines will not automatic improve graphics, the features needs to be coded in.

    Am sure that anet would love to improve it but the work would take longer then it will to release an expansion pack, whole game code needs to reviewed and edited.

    ESO directx11 also has performance issue with their engine i believe, and they have a much more funding then anet (correct me if am wrong).

    MMORPG are much more complex then the usual games, there are single player games with a simplier engines yet still have issues with directx upgrade.

  • New Graphic Cards are supporting the new Direct X version. To have the performace you expect when buying a new Graphic card is not that big if the game codec is running on an older Direct X version.
    I Upgraded from NVidia 960 to a NVidia 1070. Some effects have been added but not as much as expected. Compared to a Game that have been coded for Direct X 11/12 the imporve after this upgrade was not as expected.

    Maybe this will bring back more players to GW2 if the game is beeing moved to an actual Direct X version that will use and support today features of newer graphic Cards.

  • Magao.6894Magao.6894 Member
    edited June 1, 2020

    Ryzen 3600X, GeForce 1060. Wandering around Lion's Arch, same graphics settings. For DX12 I'm using configuration options in d912pxy that use more CPU rather than GPU.

    Using DX12 you can see that the CPU load is spread much more evenly across the cores, which gives greater room for CPU spikes. Also although it's not really evident in this example, in large battles it tends to be CPU-limited with DX9 (primarily due to that one core that's permanently at 95+%), whereas with DX12 it's GPU-limited. DX12 is also a lot smoother esp. while panning the camera. And both minimum and maximum FPS are higher for me under DX12 (it's the first I've ever spent a lot of my time at my 75FPS refresh rate ...).

    This is using a DX9 -> DX12 converter, which naturally limits what can be done. It's a proof of concept that there are significant benefits even with a fairly minimal DX12 implementation.

    DX9
    gw2-dx9.png

    DX12 (note - DX12 uses the Graphics_1 GPU engine, at least with nVidia, and that's not reported in Utilization - the small bit of usage at the end in 3D is when I switched from GW2 to screenshot Task Manager).
    gw2-dx12.png

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm not against it unless it impedes or delays future content. This is very much way, way low down the priority list vs actual content.

    Hopefully a new engine could improve the development of content. Right now, it seems that some types of content require tremendous amounts of work, QA, and tweaking to ensure it goes into the game without bugs. As part of remastering, I'd think ANet could go to the drawing board, and re-think, how they design, create, implement, and render different types of content to create a concise workflow with greater efficiency. Perhaps new licenced technologies or engines exists that can push the tools for the content team to another level.

    The technology isn't simply about what runs on a client computer to put the pixels on the screen. Behind the engine is a chain of tools and processes that work behind the scenes to get content ready for the engine. The back and front of this content pipeline could be very intricately, and interdependently put together. And as a part of an exercise in changing engines, or remastering content, can be to rebuild this pipeline to be more efficient.

    I don't think games companies talk in detail of how their technologies have helped or hurt their process. It is probably somewhat proprietary information. But, my optimism is that, a push to revamp technologies and engines can lead to cheaper, better, and less buggy content. Maybe even open up the possibilities of making content previously though too expensive to implement vs the benefits.

    We want the game to grow, and not just in the amount of content. But in the types of content being delivered, and the quality of each release. If the current way of doing things is holding this growth back, then by all means, any chance to change things, small to big, should be considered, irrespective of how it might affect short term delivery of things. With some people saying UE5 tools could be a real boon to the development process it makes me wonder...

    It would no doubt be a daunting, resource intensive task, but... That is what I would value the most of a "remaster", not spruced up existing content, but a foundation for improved content delivery into the future.

  • Genlog.4983Genlog.4983 Member ✭✭

    all i can say there engin is geting old and need a better 1 but i know that cost alot of money
    i also play BDO on ultra setting but to tell the truth that game runs better then GW2 for me
    i think there old engin cant keep up anymore with so much information
    i DC alot for no reason ? mostly in a story what i hate so much becouse i need to do it all over again :( the trading post is very slow mabye to many players use it

  • @Veryl.7861 said:
    I adress this forum post to all developers working on the latest releases.
    I've discussed World Polishing before but what I really wish for is a remastered version of GW2.

    Textures are all the same. Switching to another engine would only allow us to have better detail culling transparent textures and allows players to experience a higher framerate with more detail when zooming in.

    Now from what I'm aware off is that the GW2 engine is the same as GW1's. This was because the original engine was good enough to provide people an experience like walking through a painting wich I very much appreciate.

    Nonetheless there are many many people who suffer from overheating computers and low framerates still dedicated to GW2 for a reason. It's a perfect unique game with it's own lore and own way of storytelling. This could be easily solved if it was so easy to convert DX9 to DX12 Ultimate (with RTX and Ansel provided by Nvidia)
    Now I can't look in Anet's wallet so I don't know if it's too much to cost to buy licences for a new engine but heck.. there are even free possibilities like Unreal engine provides us nowdays.

    Why I feel stubborn enough to ask for a Remastered version is because I have helped developing other games that released around 2002.
    I'm aware of polycount restrictions and texture minimizing for optimal use.. but isn't this way of working getting outdated?
    With technology ike RTX simple reflections in ice or water would be far more detailed and immerges the player to love this game even more.
    Another game called Black Dessert has remastered their game. Why can't anet?

    About my thoughts on world polishing is a better way of guided by the lore of gw2 to update for example divinities reach castles in the sky that once were unreachable and now manditory for flying skyscale. The player finds out unrealistic balconies and doors that are even too smal for an asura to enter placed as mere scenery.

    In the times of GW1 I wished for bump mapping and a day and night cycle. this GW2 has nailed because I love the way Supersample works although some still set it too native because of unrealistic lightning.

    As our eyes confined to games getting more detailed every year our eyes are spoiled. Graphicwise/mechinacly and the high engine output that only allows people to play with more than decent desktops. I hope GW2 has the ambition to grow likewise by the effort other engines put into their game to optimize eyecandy for our lazy eyes that strive for the players mind to set priority ingame. GW2 has done a good job bringing out more visuals like infusions and legendary trinkets... But people still log off and they poof away into nothingness, Though when entering a portal the character has a nice transition to the other portal. maybe lorewise there could open possibilities to allow the player to log off but actually "standby" in the lore of gw2.

    Cantha is upon us and I couldn't be more thrilled about this increddible expansion. I just really hope it's not in vain for those players who seek eyecandy to the fullest extend like I do.

    GW2 is directX9 having an engine that only uses one CPU core. In a remastered version I'd imagine highering framerates and more "polishing" those ugly textures ore onesided ones to have as low polygons as the measure takes.

    Question is: Is a remastered version of GW2 possible so we don't have to wait for GW3? honestly i dont think that's ever gonna happen. GW2 has all the assets a player needs to have fun in such an amazing game.

    With all respect and love for the one's behind the screens.
    I hope the community can work together with the developers to inspire this game to be timeless as much as possible.

    With love and being faithful,
    Van Marle

    I think RTX is maybe a bit too much - given a LOT of work should be done to implement it (Only Blizzard has done RTX in their mmorpg, but that's blizzard they are swimming in money) and a completely new engine (for example Unreal like you mentioned) would mean the game would have to be written entirely from scratch again (8 years of developement needs to be written again in that case) would require an incredible amount of work and money probably. I think just updating to more modern standards of rendering techniques should be plenty and within their budget :D!

    I too would like to see a remastered version, I think with upgrading rendering techniques and more engine optimization Guild Wars 2's potential could really be unfolded. I would like to see more maps with as much visual eyecandy as Grothmar Valley for example but with the same performance as core Tyria maps:)! With optimization I really do believe a lot more content/systems could come to Guild Wars 2 because developers will have an easier time implementing them without having worries about crashes and gamebreaking bugs.

    A remastered version with world polishing and some big engine overhauls would make for an even more outstanding game than Guild Wars 2 already is, I fully agree with your statement:D!

    Thank you for the interesting post!

    Speedylord
    (UwU OwO)

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭

    The game is fine.

  • Mutisija.5017Mutisija.5017 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2020

    this definitely would be nice, but i do not think that this is going to happen. i highly doubt they have the people and resource to keep the promised updates coming and remaster gw2 (especially after the whole thing about having to boot out good chunk of staff). it would be possible in future after they are done with making new content for gw2... but its more likely that they would move on to making gw3 (or maybe entirely different title) rather than spend their resources on upgrading old content.