Anet pls bring back druid and make it a good support this time.

I mean, Firebrand and Tempest are better support than druid IN EVERY ASPECT. I'm asking too much when i say that druid should atleast be considered on-pair with these supports?

1) Just get rid of that 20% pet stats nerf and REMOVE the pet completely. Pets have ZERO interactions with Celestial Avatar and die way too fast in teamfights. This is why druid will never be a real support. Also the fact that the druid is able to do some damage through pets while running basically non-damage traits or amulets always led the spec to many nerfs over and over. JUST. REMOVE. THE. PETS. Replace them with some sort of Wisps, Pet spirits, totems, or something that can grant some AoE support.

2) Celestial avatar is weak. 20 second cooldown is too long AND ALSO you need to generate enough astral force to get into it when Firebrands can just wait cooldowns and rotate beetween tomes (which are x10 better than CA skills)? Even Engi MED KIT is better than Celestial Avatar in WvW, wtf Anet.

3) Staff IS TERRIBLE. Astral Wisp is the most useless skill in the game, no damage, low healing, no cc, no combos. Utterly garbage. Vine Surge is another bad skill...no damage, 1 second immob. Then you removed the evade on Ancestral Grace, which basically killed the weapon. Also you nerfed the autoattack which is THE ONLY DAMAGING SKILL OF THE WEAPON, just why lol. Half of the staff kit needs a complete rework.

4) Glyphs are outdated utilities that brings nothing more than cc, condi cleanse, cc and condi cleanse. I don't even want to say something about that 7 second cast time elite glyph ON A CLASS THAT HAVE ZERO STABILITY TO SECURE THE CAST unlike warriors that can grant themselves stability to secure Winds of Disenchantment or eles to secure Overloads.

5) Search and Rescue and other group utilities got nerfed so hard that druid is basically forced to play Survivals to stay alive. This lead to selfish builds which are not meant to support anyone outside some aoe stealth through Celestial Shadow. I really suggest to decrease Search and rescue cooldown and increase the radius, also Signet of Renewal should transfer less conditions BUT also the cooldown could be lowered by a lot. Protect Me should grant AoE barrier on top of the AoE stunbreak and the barrier should scale with healing power.

Here is an interesting post (not made by me) about an hypothetical druid rework: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101105/druid-reenvisioned-my-manifesto-of-suggested-changes#latestI think you can get some ideas from there Anet.

If druid is meant to be a support spec, MAKE IT A REAL SUPPORT SPEC AND STOP LOOKING AT PVE RAID BOSSES TO BALANCE IT.

PS. Bring back Chronomancer aswell.

When you have a healing weapon that needs an enemie around for halve of its skill or they just cant be used.

You know you have a bad weapon.

A druid rework with totems(like banners?) instead of glyphs would be idk, maybe cool, maybe useless.Maybe we should not remove the pet, with something like a "nature spirit" instead of the pet would be cool, with some Micro management and boons, heal or slow?

But It definitely needs a rework.

You're meant to be killable not unkillable, nobody wants to deal with perma boon perma resist perma heal rangers, let alone rangers who use GS5 to win abusively. I'm sure there is a support build you haven't found yet that works best for you, or you're probably gating yourself to an amulet or something.

I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

It has a staff with four healing skills and one cleanse. It has an avatar where four out of five skills are healing.

It's not about becoming support, it is about being actually viable at it. Ancient Seed is a cancer trait that no one likes, druid shouldn't be built around it to begin with.

@Aridon.8362 said:You're meant to be killable not unkillable, nobody wants to deal with perma boon perma resist perma heal rangers, let alone rangers who use GS5 to win abusively. I'm sure there is a support build you haven't found yet that works best for you, or you're probably gating yourself to an amulet or something.

No one said that druid should be unkillable. I'm asking about being A VIABLE SUPPORT, which means better group utilities. I've never mentioned perma resistance or perma boons. Also I've played druid since HoT beta and i'm sure on what i'm talking about, THERE IS NO SECRET GOOD SUPPORT BUILD TO DISCOVER. Even when druid was considered meta, it was a side-node bunker with some healing and group utilities (fast rez, aoe stealth). It was never considered a group support, Tempest was.

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

Weren't elite specialization meant to give us new playstyles, new roles? Ranger only have side-node or +1 builds and you want druid to be another side-noder? With longbow and that cancer trait? C'mon. EVERY MINOR TRAIT AND THE OVERALL DESIGN OF DRUID IS ABOUT SUPPORT, IT NEEDS TO BECOME A VIABLE SUPPORT.

Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

This will not solve any of the druid issues. Also support firebrand is not used much right now, i've seen more tempest and symbolbrands than supp firebrands honestly.

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

I mean it’s always been like that but never viable at all as a support, but ok...

@kappa.2036 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:You're meant to be killable not unkillable, nobody wants to deal with perma boon perma resist perma heal rangers, let alone rangers who use GS5 to win abusively. I'm sure there is a support build you haven't found yet that works best for you, or you're probably gating yourself to an amulet or something.

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

Druid did give a very new role as a side noder and actually made ranger viable for the first time in history. So yeah I think druid did a good job and we can let it rip.

Lets start with buffing its healing coefficients shall we?

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

It will solve some of the druid's problems but not all.

The problem Druid has is the same problem every support faces and either wins or loses to, competing within the same role. I said a while ago the problem druid has is that it has no niche so when Tempest comes along and basically does the exact same job better druid has no place, just as when FB came out and did the same job as Tempest but better it made Tempest obsolete.

If Tempest provided auras, sustained AoE healing and cleansing but wasn't a good burst healer and telegraphed on it then it has a niche.If Druid was good at focused burst healing in smaller areas, with some cleanses and can give superspeed to allies and self for quick rotation into and out of fights it has a niche that is different to Tempest.If FB provides the strong boons people want like quickness, aegis, stability, resistance, cleanses but is a poorer sustained healer than Tempest and lacks the burst healing of Druid then it has a niche that is different to Druid and Tempest.

So for rotation comps you want a druid.For team fight comps with vulnerable classes like necro you want a FB.For team fight comps that have plenty of stunbreaks and self booning you would have a tempest.

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

But ok? What requires less work? Shuffling and improving underused support aspect of druid to achieve what it clearly was designed for, or reworking almost the entire spec into some cancerous CC bot that will just put wood under the fire regarding all the ranger hate?

@"kappa.2036" said:I mean, Firebrand and Tempest are better support than druid IN EVERY ASPECT. I'm asking too much when i say that druid should atleast be considered on-pair with these supports?

1) Just get rid of that 20% pet stats nerf and REMOVE the pet completely. Pets have ZERO interactions with Celestial Avatar and die way too fast in teamfights. This is why druid will never be a real support. Also the fact that the druid is able to do some damage through pets while running basically non-damage traits or amulets always led the spec to many nerfs over and over. JUST. REMOVE. THE. PETS. Replace them with some sort of Wisps, Pet spirits, totems, or something that can grant some AoE support.

2) Celestial avatar is weak. 20 second cooldown is too long AND ALSO you need to generate enough astral force to get into it when Firebrands can just wait cooldowns and rotate beetween tomes (which are x10 better than CA skills)? Even Engi MED KIT is better than Celestial Avatar in WvW, kitten Anet.

3) Staff IS TERRIBLE. Astral Wisp is the most useless skill in the game, no damage, low healing, no cc, no combos. Utterly garbage. Vine Surge is another bad skill...no damage, 1 second immob. Then you removed the evade on Ancestral Grace, which basically killed the weapon. Also you nerfed the autoattack which is THE ONLY DAMAGING SKILL OF THE WEAPON, just why lol. Half of the staff kit needs a complete rework.

4) Glyphs are outdated utilities that brings nothing more than cc, condi cleanse, cc and condi cleanse. I don't even want to say something about that 7 second cast time elite glyph ON A CLASS THAT HAVE ZERO STABILITY TO SECURE THE CAST unlike warriors that can grant themselves stability to secure Winds of Disenchantment or eles to secure Overloads.

5) Search and Rescue and other group utilities got nerfed so hard that druid is basically forced to play Survivals to stay alive. This lead to selfish builds which are not meant to support anyone outside some aoe stealth through Celestial Shadow. I really suggest to decrease Search and rescue cooldown and increase the radius, also Signet of Renewal should transfer less conditions BUT also the cooldown could be lowered by a lot. Protect Me should grant AoE barrier on top of the AoE stunbreak and the barrier should scale with healing power.

Here is an interesting post (not made by me) about an hypothetical druid rework: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101105/druid-reenvisioned-my-manifesto-of-suggested-changes#latestI think you can get some ideas from there Anet.

If druid is meant to be a support spec, MAKE IT A REAL SUPPORT SPEC AND STOP LOOKING AT PVE RAID BOSSES TO BALANCE IT.

PS. Bring back Chronomancer aswell.

-Druid needs some love and adjustments but I don't think it needs a complete redesign nor does it need to changes to the pet mechanic(also close to 0 chance devs will actually do such a big redesign). If you want a tanky pet that does no damage with some support utilities, just take "Blue Moa"(asking for some Moa buffs is also very reasonable). The beauty of the pet mechanic is that you can design a pet to fill a specific role, both in terms of flavor and game play. Now that we know that a new expansion is on the orison, it will make more sense to just ask for a supportive pet which will be favored toward druid. I will even argue that the "Jacaranda" pet of POF, was an attempt to do just that(with some success).

-CA skills are fine, only "CA 1" needs a rework - I recommend a channeling skill that heals one person only from a range that ramps up in healing(kinda like ele's Arc Lightning, just for healing). The CA skills are strong with healing amulet + the Lingering Light trait.

-I agree with you regarding Staff 2 and 4, both need something... (I have some ideas)

-I think that Glyphs only need some boost for its CA version, as it has much more limited usage and should be rewarded for that. I recommend low duration AOE boon based on glyph). I agree that the Elite glyph is not great and not what the druid needs (I have some ideas).

-Most revive skills have been nerfed, making spirits more viable in PVP could change the way we evaluate druid completely in terms of utility and support capabilities(easy fixes).

Even in its current state druid is viable for platinum game play. I play 2 versions of druid around the 1600 rating(and BTW,non of which making use of the WS trait line), One for healing support and the other more hybrid healing/CC+damage. Better players could probably take the spec further toward the 1800 zone. The issue with support spec in PUGS groups is that your performance is based on your team quality. Doing a good job of supporting a bad team will not give you a win, and you cannot carry with a support spec.

@"LughLongArm.5460" said:-Druid needs some love and adjustments but I don't think it needs a complete redesign nor does it need to changes to the pet mechanic(also close to 0 chance devs will actually do such a big redesign). If you want a tanky pet that does no damage with some support utilities, just take "Blue Moa"(asking for some Moa buffs is also very reasonable). The beauty of the pet mechanic is that you can design a pet to fill a specific role, both in terms of flavor and game play. Now that we know that a new expansion is on the orison, it will make more sense to just ask for a supportive pet which will be favored toward druid. I will even argue that the "Jacaranda" pet of POF, was an attempt to do just that(with some success).

-CA skills are fine, only "CA 1" needs a rework - I recommend a channeling skill that heals one person only from a range that ramps up in healing(kinda like ele's Arc Lightning, just for healing). The CA skills are strong with healing amulet + the Lingering Light trait.

-I agree with you regarding Staff 2 and 4, both need something... (I have some ideas)

-I think that Glyphs only need some boost for its CA version, as it has much more limited usage and should be rewarded for that. I recommend low duration AOE boon based on glyph). I agree that the Elite glyph is not great and not what the druid needs (I have some ideas).

-Most revive skills have been nerfed, making spirits more viable in PVP could change the way we evaluate druid completely in terms of utility and support capabilities(easy fixes).

Even in its current state druid is viable for platinum game play. I play 2 versions of druid around the 1600 rating(and BTW,non of which making use of the WS trait line), One for healing support and the other more hybrid healing/CC+damage. Better players could probably take the spec further toward the 1800 zone. The issue with support spec in PUGS groups is that your performance is based on your team quality. Doing a good job of supporting a bad team will not give you a win, and you cannot carry with a support spec.

Every spec can climb to platinum, also i never said that druid is unviable. I have said that the spec is not good at supporting, which is a fact, and i mean, supporting is what the spec is designed for (Dev Irenio said that, not me). Also, the goal of my post is not trying to have a build that carry pugs in solo/duoq matches by supporting them. I want a viable support build that can be paired with tempest or fb when playing with a comp designed around it.Also, i don't think spirits will ever be usable competitively. They are just like warrior banners with decreasing health and long casts. Not worth it.

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I don’t honestly want druid to become a support. I feel like a build with longbow and ancient seeds could be good, but they just need to make it stronger at what it does

I never thought druid should be a support. The entire theme of ranger in pvp is to be and/or do stuff on your own. Whether that’s achieved by side noding or being a roaming that shines brightest in roads, then that’s fine.But why would you ever want a designated solo class to be the teams designated support? It makes no sense thematically or logically with the way the skills on ranger are atm. Also I highly doubt there is any way anet can shuffle the skills to even make it good

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

FB hasn't been a viable support for months, and people are still banging that drum :/

Legit can't remember the last time I saw one in either Ranked or AT. They'll be complaining about Scourges and Boonbeasts and D/D CEle next.

I'm fairly sure ANet don't want a full-support to be viable. They want people to play brawlers with support-aspects.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

Fb has been the best support since it was released and still is, but you can continue to think that this is not so.

Just out of curiosity, what would FB lack to be called "complete" support?

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

Being the best looking guy in the burns-unit isn't a compliment. Being the best out of a list of non-viable stuff doesn't make something viable. Being better than Druid isn't an achievement.

None of this means that Support-FB is something that anyone actually chooses to play at a high level.

It's been 100% non-existent in Ranked (Plat+) and mAT since the start of the year, and completely replaced with Symbolbrand. Go and watch some high level streams or mAT streams, and count the number of full-support FBs. It'll be zero.

The only conclusion to draw from that is that ANet don't want a pure support to be a thing, and want everyone to Hybrid.

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

Just for clarity- full support is just healing and at least according to all the good support/guardian players I know and/or do ats with, it seems the only players going full support atm are tempest as it pumps a little damage and has auras, while all the guardian even for team fights are going symbols or sages, which are hybrid builds. So while you may see a lot of firebrands still in team fights healing and whatnot- it doesn’t mean support firebrand is viable. Or actually as I would put it as just a swing in the meta where it’s very uncommon among organized teams or even in ranked.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

This however does not make the build impractical.

This is a discussion about Support and FB is unquestionably the best regardless of the Build that people are now using.In this game every profession should cover any role or almost, Druid is a support specification and if he does not receive buffs because maybe Anet thinks it is a balanced profession, at this point the problem will be somewhere else because FB shouldn't be better in every single aspect than another profession.

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

You have to be trolling.

Class 1 is D-tier and Class 2 is E-tier, so you want them both to be E-tier for the sake of fairness?

Neither Full-Support FB nor Full-Support Druid are used currently. How will nerfing FB make people play Druid?

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

Balance means that classes have equal opportunities, if this is a troll for you, perhaps you have a particular concept of balance?

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@kappa.2036 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Alternatively Anet could make FB less performing in order to make other support professions more practicable.

Okay, definitely trolling.

FB and Druid are not the only 2 classes in the game.

If a class is struggling, you buff it, you don't pick another non-meta class at random to be nerfed.

And yes, support-FB is not meta. Symbolbrand =/= Support.

By your logic, Druid should be nerfed because it's a better support than Thief.