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The All field and All "stars"; applying quantum field theory as The Eternal Alchemy

Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
edited April 10, 2020 in Lore

I have no formal training in quantum field theory. I am not even formally trained as a psientist. I am just willing to play both on the internet.

I hope to make a case for an All field modeled on quantum field theory. The All field will carry a force and be home to particle or particles, as wave-forms as discrete kinetic work loads, that communicate that force. The All field carries the force called Agent Affirmation and maintains a field wide emulation of the wave-forms generated by the other fields predicted by real world quantum field theory. The All field describes an agent as any sufficiently coherent quantity and quality of work; a quark, an organic cell, a meme, a mind, all qualify as agents. The All field actively seeks to describe agents and communicate agency. All field wave-forms, native and emulated, are very stable and rarely collapse. When life emerges on a planet, it creates increasingly complex wave-forms within the All field. The energy density of the All field around the planet increases until it reaches a threshold at which All wave-forms collapse forming an All star. Magic is the collapsed All field's emulated wave-forms, that have become entangled with the other force carrying fields. For instance, the All field wave-form created when a cat hunts, collapses and can excite the other quantum fields producing Hunting magic. When an All star forms, all Life on the planet becomes entangled with Magic. The physiology of the greatest Minds become entangled with the All star as central coordinates, allowing stable convective topology for magic particles.

That was supposed to be the TDLR.

Before diving deeper, I want to ask whether Tyria benefits from having a harder magic system. Imo, the demand for a harder magic system increased as overall plot scale increased. Elder dragons are cosmic scale manifestations of magic physics. As well, an increasing quantity of such manifestations would increase demand for a harder system that connects them. There are risks to a hard magic system. The studio wants to avoid making the plot Asura-centric for good reason and ,in general, magic celebrates imagination and the potential of chance. However, a hard magic system could make magic theory based plot available to all races. It would explain the power of science and prayer. A hard magic system could leverage imagination. That is my goal here.

Quantum field theory models reality using force carrying fields, force carrying excitation of the field commonly called wave-forms (particles), and math. The All field will need its force, particle and math explained.

The All field carries the Agent Affirmation force. To put the math poetically, love of structure multiplied by love of structural resonance. The All force discovers wave-forms and communicates their structure across the All field. The AA force resolves as a field of tiny, densely packed particulate wave-forms with one massive virtual Wave-form. Particulate wave length is the minimum distance needed to achieve two affirming agents. The field condenses into a fabric of maximized excitation density, particle density. The virtual Wave-form would be the simple topology for one wave length connecting two nodes and creating two slopes. The virtual W-form is a perfect state for the AA force (connecting two agents, each affirming the other) with the field as the topology described at the maximally turbulent inversion of the virtual W-form slopes. The All field would be extremely flat and react to excitation from other fields by unfolding and building an origami like structure from a densely folded fabric. The small size of All wave-forms predicts that they could emulate larger wave-forms with a resolution relative to the ratio of sizes. AA force particulates discover and simulate wave-forms. The virtual W-form powers affirmation as emulation of the agent, the W-form will spend energy to create a copy of the discovered wave-form. Since it is virtual and is calculating All equals the other All, most of that energy is spent on itself. Some must be spent on the field particulates producing the simulation. I predict that the energy would accumulate at moments of maximize field deformation and would impact particulate configuration, orientation, address requirements, and descriptor requirements. The need for a particulate address is produced by the virtual Wave-form leveraging its polarized affirmation. The need for a particulate descriptor emerges from the particulate's address within an emulated wave-form. Visualize a spinning jump rope with two slopes. The virtual Wave-form is the math of perfectly paired hands that spin to achieve an entangled field of uniformly long minimally distant pairs of hands.

Thank you for getting through that and I hope it was coherent. Put simply, the All field can emulate anything that could be described as "something doing something" and will seek higher resolutions for the emulation. The All field behaves as a currency field without symmetrically relative goods and services would behave. It seeks increased internal quantization and fungibility.

The All field emulation would normally be weakly interacting with the real world. It would make structure more likely and more persistent. It would either move space time or particulates into higher Agency configurations. Perhaps both as parts of the virtual particle are virtually annihilated and particulates fold back up. The All emulation would have an energy density, a magnitude of available work per unit of space. Every emulated structure increases density. Structure type would multiply paths to density and structure magnitude and quantity would accumulate velocity.

It may be impossible to see the effects of the All field without Life's effect on it. Compared to matter, Life will provide the All field with agents of extreme energy density. As Life proliferates, the density and energy level of All particulates leveraged by the All virtual Wave-form emulation increases. All particles that are part of the emulation increase in energy density; they are faster, better aimed, have larger field addresses and descriptions. When energy density reaches a threshold, the All field reacts by adjusting the local topology of dense All particulates. The most dense particulates are a given a unique descriptor and address algorithm. This condenses their ability to do work by giving them a smaller space to influence and broadens their workload profile. The new descriptor and address allows this population of particulates to anchor a convective topology of high energy All particulates. This population of particulates would be energetic enough produce excitation of the other fields. The All particulates with the most energy and information from the All's emulation of Tyrian fire would manifest in the other fields as Fire Magic.

Life produces structure and energy in the All field because Life is structure. Extend that concept of structure to the Mind. Simple, mechanized lifeforms will produce a simple mechanized topology for the All emulation. A Mind can produce imaginative topology, descriptors, addresses and magnitudes. Life and Mind are always producing an increase in the All field energy density. When the All field reaches the density threshold, the high energy All particulates are given Life and Mind descriptors and addresses. At All star ignition, the most energetic Living Minds are given the Elder address and descriptor. High dragons become Elder dragons when the location and description of their Minds are used to organize the orbits of all Magic particles into a convective system that moves about a common center. At Six Elders, all Magic particles share one of six Elder address and description symmetries as well as a quantity of hierarchically applied address and description symmetries. Every living thing is used as an address and description symmetry and experiences Magic as the All star leveraging convective agency against themselves.

The Mists would be created by the shock wave created by All star ignition. The All field would be sloped towards the common center of ignition and the densely folded, origami field would relax creating a ring of easily excited All space. If the star analog for an All ignition holds, and allows for new magic or new structure to form by fusion then an All Star would radiate that new structure. The Mists could capture any of that radiation.

I want to go on and but I need to get up. I want the simplest description of this model I can achieve. I would love to test this model against Tyrian phenomenon. If any of this makes sense and you can offer support and challenge, I encourage you to reply. Offer a Tyrian phenomenon and I will try to fit it to the model.

all primes work and not tearing down has value
ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

Comments

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    I have no formal training in quantum field theory. I am not even formally trained as a psientist. I am just willing to play both on the internet.

    Join the club :).
    .

    I hope to make a case for an All field modeled on quantum field theory. The All field will carry a force and be home to particle or particles, as wave-forms as discrete kinetic work loads, that communicate that force. The All field carries the force called Agent Affirmation and maintains a field wide emulation of the wave-forms generated by the other fields predicted by real world quantum field theory. The All field describes an agent as any sufficiently coherent quantity and quality of work; a quark, an organic cell, a meme, a mind, all qualify as agents. The All field actively seeks to describe agents and communicate agency. All field wave-forms, native and emulated, are very stable and rarely collapse. When life emerges on a planet, it creates increasingly complex wave-forms within the All field. The energy density of the All field around the planet increases until it reaches a threshold at which All wave-forms collapse forming an All star. Magic is the collapsed All field's emulated wave-forms, that have become entangled with the other force carrying fields. For instance, the All field wave-form created when a cat hunts, collapses and can excite the other quantum fields producing Hunting magic. When an All star forms, all Life on the planet becomes entangled with Magic. The physiology of the greatest Minds become entangled with the All star as central coordinates, allowing stable convective topology for magic particles.

    That was supposed to be the TDLR.

    I applaud your effort. As a layman, though, I must say that reading the entirety of your post is hard going. This paradigm makes sense to you, but you've delivered it with so much jargon - both professional and personal technical language - that it makes it harder for others to absorb exactly what you mean. Heaven forbid someone who doesn't comprehend English, or whose native language isn't English, should try to make sense of what you've presented us with!

    I encourage you to scour the Guild Wars loreverse in search of examples to help you bolster your explanation. Then, if you're prepared to go the extra mile, translate your paradigm into something a little more intuitive so that the silent majority can grasp it.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2020

    I barely comprehended any of this. This is often the issue trying to link complex sciences to what is at the end of the day, just a basic fantasy World which isn’t designed or written to have a deeper meaning or science attached to it (something worsened when the writers themselves suddenly interject ill conceived and ill fitting concepts like The All which feel out of place or are thrown in just for the sake of it).

    If you really want to try and tie something like this to Tyria then I’d suggest as the above poster says and make it understandable to the average reader.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Dustfinger.9510Dustfinger.9510 Member ✭✭✭

    I think a hard system is beneficial for one reason in that it determines a definitive physics for the story. That physics can then be discussed and speculated on. That's cool. But I see a hard system as being problematic for a couple reasons. First, it defies the basic point of magic in the story in that it is extremely confining. That confinement binds the hands of the writers who are now subject to those rules. Each writer has to have a solid understanding of those rules in order to have any workable idea for the story. But, the classic benefit of writing magic is the ability to create and solve problems without needing to … solve actual problems. Loose rules allows the story to flow in potentially any direction the writers see fit. Hard rules are more determining and they eliminate a lot more options.

    The second problem I see is that hard rules becomes a science. It requires the in-lore races to pay attention and perform that science at a standard level. And, as you've alluded to, that basic operating level that would be explored is solidly the key characteristic of only one race. To require the other races to be at the asuran level takes a whole lot away from the asura while giving them nothing in return.

    In effect, the payoff isn't worth the cost except to those who are only interested in discussing a working quasi-quantum field system at the cost of the story and the game.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    A simpler description of the All field

    For the model to work we need to assume that everything creates a shape that can be mapped. This include matter, energy and actions like running, lying or thinking. The All field uses shapes from the other fields (the real world) to create a simulation of the real world. The simulation includes a history of past shapes. Normally, this simulation doesn't interact with the real world. Life and the Mind produce complex shapes and eventually the simulation becomes so complex that the All field has to change how it is maintained. A portion of the simulation emerges into the real world as Magic. The original post describes how pixels are formed, resolution is maintained, the simulation is powered, etc.

    I understand the arguments against a harder magic system. It can be restrictive, disciplining. However, it is impossible to build dimension into a fantasy world without hardening the world's magic system. Its magic system is the world's most defining personality trait. GW2's plot is based on digging into Tyria's personality. If the magic system is hard enough, it does not have to be restrictive, just disciplining. It can prevent Deus ex plot vectors from ever forming and provide directions that don't exist with soft magic. A hard magic system can make writing more productive. The All field turns imagination into a real force, it isn't very restricting. I think the risk to plot freedom is minimal. My magic system makes plasticity of shape unavoidable, the same goal of the softest magic system. Unlike the softest magic system, it can explain the All and predict other cosmic scale stuctures like Ley Lines and the Mists. It provides a rationale for gear binding. I don't know if any Tyrian phenomena escapes explanation and can think of many exciting plot directions offered. According to my model, we are on a heroic journey to save the star we live on or adapt to living on the remnants of a super nova. That is a steeply inclined power fantasy slope.

    Imo, the plot has always been causing the demand for a harder magic system to rise. The weakness of deus ex magic always becomes more visible.

    The Asura do create unique considerations. They could gain and lose competitive and comparative plot advantages. Imo, this model increases global comparative advantage because it increases the symmetry of all mindful use of Magic. An Asuran lab and Grawl shrine do very similar work when each uses Magic to shape the real world. Asurans would maintain a competitive advantage by focusing on their unique traits. As a people, they love to study, deconstruct and reconstruct reality. All peoples produce unique and powerful Mindful Magic and Aurans study, deconstruct and reconstruct them all. In general, a harder magic system likely increases Asuran plot advantage. Aurene would be a useful way to moderate that advantage.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    Using this model, we can make predictions concerning which magic numbers provide stable configurations for an All star. The All star would have a commonly shared center dominated by the All field. Six spheres form around six centers. Place six spheres in water and apply enough force to fill the Common Center with water. The Common Center represented by the water's surface forms a peak. The peak will rise as the number of spheres decreases. One Elder Sphere gets thrown away from the slope. I think two spheres would form something analogous to a black hole. A family of All star super nova remnants would emerge from three, four and five Elder sphere's.

    One of my reasons for writing this was to protect Aurene. It would be easy to feed Aurene to the resolution of the plot. With her, the studio could put the power and power structure discovered by the plot beyond reach. This model opens a field of destinations for Aurene. I consider that a convincing example of this magic system's potential.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    A simple poetic description

    The Tyrian universe is made from all the real world fields plus the All field. The All field behaves literally as a finite supply of a currency commodity like gold. The supply of the commodity can be divided down to the atom. All real world fields trade energy using particles. They maintain a barter economy. That barter economy is emulated by the All field as a currency based economy. The All field builds a historical ledger of the barter economy's trade floor activity. Life and Mind create complex asset structures that eventually overload the All field's ability to maintain the ledger using just its own energy. The currency trade floor emerges into the barter trade floor. Agents on the barter trade floor can then leverage assets from the All ledger. The All ledger would leverage barter agents as well. Elder beings would be maximally leveraged by the All ledger. Balancing the All star would resolve about the axis linking the increase and decrease in agency offered by leverage across enough agents, always including the All ledger, where an entangled structure stabilizes.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • as a mathematical physicist working on topological string theory and mirror symmetry, i dont think it is possible to use QFT to describe any phenomenon in Tyria, just because i dont see how can the definition of a QFT be introduced ingame, a QFT is an n functors on n categories Bord S n whose morphisms are manifolds with extra S structure, when S has a conformal structure we are dealing with CFT, when S has a pseudo reimaniann structure we are dealing with QFT and so on.... also me presonally i am against having all kind of physics and math ingame because well that's baisically my job so coming from a day of work to find out more about QFT in gw2 can be meh for me lol... but i would not be against including some simple classical physics stuff to explain and describe the magic of Tyria.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think a lot of this way too over the top and complex, that I doubt that the writing team is writing the lore based on these advanced systems.

  • Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭

    I confess I feel really stupid. I sort of understood it and then it kind of went over my head. I think the main problem is that it's over-complicating something that occurs naturally; magic defies human machinations and explanations. Trying to sync up magic and quantum physics sort of takes away the mystique of magic. I hope this makes sense, I haven't slept yet. Again

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  • Coeruleum.9164Coeruleum.9164 Member ✭✭
    edited September 4, 2020

    This contradicts the lore. The Mists were around before the world. They didn't come into existence because of something magical. I see no problem with saying magic is a kind of science in Tyria, because there are lots of scholars, not just in the class sense but in the sense of actually being academics and intellectuals, from all the playable races and not only Asura, but trying to explain exactly how it works leads to a paradox. The paradox is, if your magic is actually a real life science, it should work in real life, so you either end up with the extremely unlikely situation of making stuff from Tyria useable in real life, or the more likely scenario of your magic system not actually being a real science.

    Also, All "stars" is just going to make people sing a certain Smash Mouth song over and over again.

  • @Coeruleum.9164 said:
    This contradicts the lore. The Mists were around before the world. They didn't come into existence because of something magical. I see no problem with saying magic is a kind of science in Tyria, because there are lots of scholars, not just in the class sense but in the sense of actually being academics and intellectuals, from all the playable races and not only Asura, but trying to explain exactly how it works leads to a paradox. The paradox is, if your magic is actually a real life science, it should work in real life, so you either end up with the extremely unlikely situation of making stuff from Tyria useable in real life, or the more likely scenario of your magic system not actually being a real science.

    Also, All "stars" is just going to make people sing a certain Smash Mouth song over and over again.

    Your comment about the Mist existing prior to Tyria's and the All's existence is fair. The paradox bit is bonkers.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks