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Racial Depth

Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

So I made a post not long ago, probably a few days ago about new classes. Seems it got poo pooed on but it made me think of the potential for "Racial" specs and "Racial Classes" which are unique based upon the race you choose. For example a havroun can only be a norn for lore reasons, while a dervish can only be a human again for lore reasons and these classes/specs can be created to give racial diversity to classes that currently exist.

Im going to build this post based upon the notion that they would be a fourth spec line, which is simply present and can't be changed that bring racial bennefits to the forefront that honestly don't destroy anything or put one above the other. Simply add racial flavor, perhaps they add unique synergies and I can do a one v the other but it shouldn't be applicable unless you wish to min-max (Which is hilarious that you'd waste the time but whatever lol..)

  • Havroun: The norn racial traitline is based entirely around the spirit of the wild you chose at the beginning of the game, the benefits are dependent on this choice which makes it mean something when you make a character. For a example is that both raven and snow leopard offer a sort of trickster gameplay, but raven is more about dark magic and the augmentation of it while snow leopard is beneficial to melee builds and melee gameplay which gives you benefits in the area of mobility. Wolf would be a support themed spirit based around team play and what you can bring to the table, in the way of hunting with the pack to bring down your quarry.. (Maybe like in ESO with their werewolves, the more wolf norn you have in a party the more benefits there can be?) And Bear would be a more sustained tank/bruiser playstyle offering damage mitigation's, and ways of staying in the fight longer as well growing stronger the longer the fight goes on. So think of it kind of like once you reach a point the bear norn will be extremely powerful, the draw back is their speed takes a hit as they continue to "Bulk up". All of these come with the shapeshifting that we know the norn to be all about, you take the form of your chosen spirit when you are in combat which is the point where the trait line comes into play. ( Could add a feature for the norn to make it more interactive, not sure but would be cool.)
  • Dervish: For the humans their gods might of left but the Dervish's were warriors who used Aura's and augmented themselves with various buffs. This would be based around the god you choose in the beginning, again to make this choice have meaning. The unique flavoring would be you pulling power from the god realms which we now know still exist due to war Eternal, meaning that energy can still be present. And with some of them being anchored to our world due to dragonfall its not hard to think the humans might find a way to harness such power, Similar to the norn you imbue yourself with the power of said realm. In doing so you gain aura's (Not sure how, by command or just passively) which benefit you in specific ways. Balthazar could be all about sustain, fire and melee combat (Skulls for the skull throne!) And Grenth could be all about darkness, chill, and occult like magic swirling around the user. This would like the norn mean that a Warrior born under balthazar would be completely unique when standing next to one of the other gods.... as it should be.
  • Legionnaire: For the charr we have their legion benefit them in specific ways, Blood is all about melee, ash is all about stealth and mobility and Iron is all about technology and how it can augment ones performance. As a bonus FLAME legion is all about magic and the addition of magical protections upon the user, since we are in a point where I think they might be good guys from here on out it would be a good way to make the game feel fresh. Add them in as a bonus but make it so there is a way you could choose to join them, during the Ice-brood saga we could also include the olmakhan if we wanted and have them be about magical protection? This way they have four putting them on an even standing with the others.
  • Savant: For asuran its their colleges and the lessons they teach, Im not honestly sure how this would work as I know next to nothing about the race as I couldn't be bothered to care really about their existence within guild wars 2. I like the race but their lore is lost on me~ Feel free to come up with something.
  • Wild hunt valiant: The cycle of day in which you're born is what decides what type of valiant you are, same as the others they give you specific flavor based on what you would have chosen during the character creation.

Note before you START your poo poo; These add flavor and a tiny pinch of power. They in no way should make it so X is better than Y in a racial choice; But it could encourage people who say ONLY play humans to try playing another race for the flavor alone. This could go a long way to make the races feel special, unique and choosing one is choosing how you interact with the world because as it stands now the racial choices seem pointless. I feel like they could completely be removed and it wouldn't make a difference once so ever. I mainly just want some flavor for the race I choose and the class I pick, Id like to see my norn warrior feel a bit different to my friends charr warrior and each be unique outside of some wonky animations and the fact that all I really have is tattoos. I know this will be poo pooed on; I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

Comments

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Blade and Soul locks some professions behind race. I didn't really care for it.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    So I made a post not long ago, probably a few days ago about new classes. Seems it got poo pooed on but it made me think of the potential for "Racial" specs and "Racial Classes" which are unique based upon the race you choose. For example a havroun can only be a norn for lore reasons, while a dervish can only be a human again for lore reasons and these classes/specs can be created to give racial diversity to classes that currently exist.

    Im going to build this post based upon the notion that they would be a fourth spec line, which is simply present and can't be changed that bring racial bennefits to the forefront that honestly don't destroy anything or put one above the other. Simply add racial flavor, perhaps they add unique synergies and I can do a one v the other but it shouldn't be applicable unless you wish to min-max (Which is hilarious that you'd waste the time but whatever lol..)

    • Havroun: The norn racial traitline is based entirely around the spirit of the wild you chose at the beginning of the game, the benefits are dependent on this choice which makes it mean something when you make a character. For a example is that both raven and snow leopard offer a sort of trickster gameplay, but raven is more about dark magic and the augmentation of it while snow leopard is beneficial to melee builds and melee gameplay which gives you benefits in the area of mobility. Wolf would be a support themed spirit based around team play and what you can bring to the table, in the way of hunting with the pack to bring down your quarry.. (Maybe like in ESO with their werewolves, the more wolf norn you have in a party the more benefits there can be?) And Bear would be a more sustained tank/bruiser playstyle offering damage mitigation's, and ways of staying in the fight longer as well growing stronger the longer the fight goes on. So think of it kind of like once you reach a point the bear norn will be extremely powerful, the draw back is their speed takes a hit as they continue to "Bulk up". All of these come with the shapeshifting that we know the norn to be all about, you take the form of your chosen spirit when you are in combat which is the point where the trait line comes into play. ( Could add a feature for the norn to make it more interactive, not sure but would be cool.)
    • Dervish: For the humans their gods might of left but the Dervish's were warriors who used Aura's and augmented themselves with various buffs. This would be based around the god you choose in the beginning, again to make this choice have meaning. The unique flavoring would be you pulling power from the god realms which we now know still exist due to war Eternal, meaning that energy can still be present. And with some of them being anchored to our world due to dragonfall its not hard to think the humans might find a way to harness such power, Similar to the norn you imbue yourself with the power of said realm. In doing so you gain aura's (Not sure how, by command or just passively) which benefit you in specific ways. Balthazar could be all about sustain, fire and melee combat (Skulls for the skull throne!) And Grenth could be all about darkness, chill, and occult like magic swirling around the user. This would like the norn mean that a Warrior born under balthazar would be completely unique when standing next to one of the other gods.... as it should be.
    • Legionnaire: For the charr we have their legion benefit them in specific ways, Blood is all about melee, ash is all about stealth and mobility and Iron is all about technology and how it can augment ones performance. As a bonus FLAME legion is all about magic and the addition of magical protections upon the user, since we are in a point where I think they might be good guys from here on out it would be a good way to make the game feel fresh. Add them in as a bonus but make it so there is a way you could choose to join them, during the Ice-brood saga we could also include the olmakhan if we wanted and have them be about magical protection? This way they have four putting them on an even standing with the others.
    • Savant: For asuran its their colleges and the lessons they teach, Im not honestly sure how this would work as I know next to nothing about the race as I couldn't be bothered to care really about their existence within guild wars 2. I like the race but their lore is lost on me~ Feel free to come up with something.
    • Wild hunt valiant: The cycle of day in which you're born is what decides what type of valiant you are, same as the others they give you specific flavor based on what you would have chosen during the character creation.

    Note before you START your poo poo; These add flavor and a tiny pinch of power. They in no way should make it so X is better than Y in a racial choice; But it could encourage people who say ONLY play humans to try playing another race for the flavor alone. This could go a long way to make the races feel special, unique and choosing one is choosing how you interact with the world because as it stands now the racial choices seem pointless. I feel like they could completely be removed and it wouldn't make a difference once so ever. I mainly just want some flavor for the race I choose and the class I pick, Id like to see my norn warrior feel a bit different to my friends charr warrior and each be unique outside of some wonky animations and the fact that all I really have is tattoos. I know this will be poo pooed on; I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    Anet is having difficulties balancing the existing classes and you want to add another layer on top of that with the races?

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All I see are unneeded balance issues and additional player limitations, because even if you have each class ready to play, you'd potentially have to either delete your character and remake it based on the race or spend for another character slot. So not to "poo poo on your idea", but I hate it. :D

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    Your main idea sounds really nice, but very unlikely since races will now have an advantage over another thus inevitably making some races "meta" build-wise.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    All I see are unneeded balance issues and additional player limitations, because even if you have each class ready to play, you'd potentially have to either delete your character and remake it based on the race or spend for another character slot. So not to "poo poo on your idea", but I hate it. :D

    Its ok , All I See is people wanting homogenization so again lets just give everyone a stick with one ability then it can be balanced. Then you can be happy~

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Blade and Soul locks some professions behind race. I didn't really care for it.

    Thats why I said racial specs that add flavor, races gotta mean something otherwise why bother allowing you to play anything other than human?

    @Edge.8724 said:
    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    Your main idea sounds really nice, but very unlikely since races will now have an advantage over another thus inevitably making some races "meta" build-wise.

    Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, the meta will always min-max.. But you really don't need to in this game and this would not change that.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    So I made a post not long ago, probably a few days ago about new classes. Seems it got poo pooed on but it made me think of the potential for "Racial" specs and "Racial Classes" which are unique based upon the race you choose. For example a havroun can only be a norn for lore reasons, while a dervish can only be a human again for lore reasons and these classes/specs can be created to give racial diversity to classes that currently exist.

    Im going to build this post based upon the notion that they would be a fourth spec line, which is simply present and can't be changed that bring racial bennefits to the forefront that honestly don't destroy anything or put one above the other. Simply add racial flavor, perhaps they add unique synergies and I can do a one v the other but it shouldn't be applicable unless you wish to min-max (Which is hilarious that you'd waste the time but whatever lol..)

    • Havroun: The norn racial traitline is based entirely around the spirit of the wild you chose at the beginning of the game, the benefits are dependent on this choice which makes it mean something when you make a character. For a example is that both raven and snow leopard offer a sort of trickster gameplay, but raven is more about dark magic and the augmentation of it while snow leopard is beneficial to melee builds and melee gameplay which gives you benefits in the area of mobility. Wolf would be a support themed spirit based around team play and what you can bring to the table, in the way of hunting with the pack to bring down your quarry.. (Maybe like in ESO with their werewolves, the more wolf norn you have in a party the more benefits there can be?) And Bear would be a more sustained tank/bruiser playstyle offering damage mitigation's, and ways of staying in the fight longer as well growing stronger the longer the fight goes on. So think of it kind of like once you reach a point the bear norn will be extremely powerful, the draw back is their speed takes a hit as they continue to "Bulk up". All of these come with the shapeshifting that we know the norn to be all about, you take the form of your chosen spirit when you are in combat which is the point where the trait line comes into play. ( Could add a feature for the norn to make it more interactive, not sure but would be cool.)
    • Dervish: For the humans their gods might of left but the Dervish's were warriors who used Aura's and augmented themselves with various buffs. This would be based around the god you choose in the beginning, again to make this choice have meaning. The unique flavoring would be you pulling power from the god realms which we now know still exist due to war Eternal, meaning that energy can still be present. And with some of them being anchored to our world due to dragonfall its not hard to think the humans might find a way to harness such power, Similar to the norn you imbue yourself with the power of said realm. In doing so you gain aura's (Not sure how, by command or just passively) which benefit you in specific ways. Balthazar could be all about sustain, fire and melee combat (Skulls for the skull throne!) And Grenth could be all about darkness, chill, and occult like magic swirling around the user. This would like the norn mean that a Warrior born under balthazar would be completely unique when standing next to one of the other gods.... as it should be.
    • Legionnaire: For the charr we have their legion benefit them in specific ways, Blood is all about melee, ash is all about stealth and mobility and Iron is all about technology and how it can augment ones performance. As a bonus FLAME legion is all about magic and the addition of magical protections upon the user, since we are in a point where I think they might be good guys from here on out it would be a good way to make the game feel fresh. Add them in as a bonus but make it so there is a way you could choose to join them, during the Ice-brood saga we could also include the olmakhan if we wanted and have them be about magical protection? This way they have four putting them on an even standing with the others.
    • Savant: For asuran its their colleges and the lessons they teach, Im not honestly sure how this would work as I know next to nothing about the race as I couldn't be bothered to care really about their existence within guild wars 2. I like the race but their lore is lost on me~ Feel free to come up with something.
    • Wild hunt valiant: The cycle of day in which you're born is what decides what type of valiant you are, same as the others they give you specific flavor based on what you would have chosen during the character creation.

    Note before you START your poo poo; These add flavor and a tiny pinch of power. They in no way should make it so X is better than Y in a racial choice; But it could encourage people who say ONLY play humans to try playing another race for the flavor alone. This could go a long way to make the races feel special, unique and choosing one is choosing how you interact with the world because as it stands now the racial choices seem pointless. I feel like they could completely be removed and it wouldn't make a difference once so ever. I mainly just want some flavor for the race I choose and the class I pick, Id like to see my norn warrior feel a bit different to my friends charr warrior and each be unique outside of some wonky animations and the fact that all I really have is tattoos. I know this will be poo pooed on; I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    Anet is having difficulties balancing the existing classes and you want to add another layer on top of that with the races?

    I exactly want that. I want my race to matter, Balance can never happen so at this stage I don't care anymore.... fun is above all. Something could be perfectly balanced and if it wasn't fun Id never touch it. Again just remove everything, hand the players a stick and give us all one skill~ People will still kitten that the stick is too op.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    So I made a post not long ago, probably a few days ago about new classes. Seems it got poo pooed on but it made me think of the potential for "Racial" specs and "Racial Classes" which are unique based upon the race you choose. For example a havroun can only be a norn for lore reasons, while a dervish can only be a human again for lore reasons and these classes/specs can be created to give racial diversity to classes that currently exist.

    Im going to build this post based upon the notion that they would be a fourth spec line, which is simply present and can't be changed that bring racial bennefits to the forefront that honestly don't destroy anything or put one above the other. Simply add racial flavor, perhaps they add unique synergies and I can do a one v the other but it shouldn't be applicable unless you wish to min-max (Which is hilarious that you'd waste the time but whatever lol..)

    • Havroun: The norn racial traitline is based entirely around the spirit of the wild you chose at the beginning of the game, the benefits are dependent on this choice which makes it mean something when you make a character. For a example is that both raven and snow leopard offer a sort of trickster gameplay, but raven is more about dark magic and the augmentation of it while snow leopard is beneficial to melee builds and melee gameplay which gives you benefits in the area of mobility. Wolf would be a support themed spirit based around team play and what you can bring to the table, in the way of hunting with the pack to bring down your quarry.. (Maybe like in ESO with their werewolves, the more wolf norn you have in a party the more benefits there can be?) And Bear would be a more sustained tank/bruiser playstyle offering damage mitigation's, and ways of staying in the fight longer as well growing stronger the longer the fight goes on. So think of it kind of like once you reach a point the bear norn will be extremely powerful, the draw back is their speed takes a hit as they continue to "Bulk up". All of these come with the shapeshifting that we know the norn to be all about, you take the form of your chosen spirit when you are in combat which is the point where the trait line comes into play. ( Could add a feature for the norn to make it more interactive, not sure but would be cool.)
    • Dervish: For the humans their gods might of left but the Dervish's were warriors who used Aura's and augmented themselves with various buffs. This would be based around the god you choose in the beginning, again to make this choice have meaning. The unique flavoring would be you pulling power from the god realms which we now know still exist due to war Eternal, meaning that energy can still be present. And with some of them being anchored to our world due to dragonfall its not hard to think the humans might find a way to harness such power, Similar to the norn you imbue yourself with the power of said realm. In doing so you gain aura's (Not sure how, by command or just passively) which benefit you in specific ways. Balthazar could be all about sustain, fire and melee combat (Skulls for the skull throne!) And Grenth could be all about darkness, chill, and occult like magic swirling around the user. This would like the norn mean that a Warrior born under balthazar would be completely unique when standing next to one of the other gods.... as it should be.
    • Legionnaire: For the charr we have their legion benefit them in specific ways, Blood is all about melee, ash is all about stealth and mobility and Iron is all about technology and how it can augment ones performance. As a bonus FLAME legion is all about magic and the addition of magical protections upon the user, since we are in a point where I think they might be good guys from here on out it would be a good way to make the game feel fresh. Add them in as a bonus but make it so there is a way you could choose to join them, during the Ice-brood saga we could also include the olmakhan if we wanted and have them be about magical protection? This way they have four putting them on an even standing with the others.
    • Savant: For asuran its their colleges and the lessons they teach, Im not honestly sure how this would work as I know next to nothing about the race as I couldn't be bothered to care really about their existence within guild wars 2. I like the race but their lore is lost on me~ Feel free to come up with something.
    • Wild hunt valiant: The cycle of day in which you're born is what decides what type of valiant you are, same as the others they give you specific flavor based on what you would have chosen during the character creation.

    Note before you START your poo poo; These add flavor and a tiny pinch of power. They in no way should make it so X is better than Y in a racial choice; But it could encourage people who say ONLY play humans to try playing another race for the flavor alone. This could go a long way to make the races feel special, unique and choosing one is choosing how you interact with the world because as it stands now the racial choices seem pointless. I feel like they could completely be removed and it wouldn't make a difference once so ever. I mainly just want some flavor for the race I choose and the class I pick, Id like to see my norn warrior feel a bit different to my friends charr warrior and each be unique outside of some wonky animations and the fact that all I really have is tattoos. I know this will be poo pooed on; I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    Anet is having difficulties balancing the existing classes and you want to add another layer on top of that with the races?

    I exactly want that. I want my race to matter, Balance can never happen so at this stage I don't care anymore.... fun is above all. Something could be perfectly balanced and if it wasn't fun Id never touch it. Again just remove everything, hand the players a stick and give us all one skill~ People will still kitten that the stick is too op.

    I disagree with the mentality that if balance can't happen then all efforts to prevent it from getting worse should be abandoned.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    So I made a post not long ago, probably a few days ago about new classes. Seems it got poo pooed on but it made me think of the potential for "Racial" specs and "Racial Classes" which are unique based upon the race you choose. For example a havroun can only be a norn for lore reasons, while a dervish can only be a human again for lore reasons and these classes/specs can be created to give racial diversity to classes that currently exist.

    Im going to build this post based upon the notion that they would be a fourth spec line, which is simply present and can't be changed that bring racial bennefits to the forefront that honestly don't destroy anything or put one above the other. Simply add racial flavor, perhaps they add unique synergies and I can do a one v the other but it shouldn't be applicable unless you wish to min-max (Which is hilarious that you'd waste the time but whatever lol..)

    • Havroun: The norn racial traitline is based entirely around the spirit of the wild you chose at the beginning of the game, the benefits are dependent on this choice which makes it mean something when you make a character. For a example is that both raven and snow leopard offer a sort of trickster gameplay, but raven is more about dark magic and the augmentation of it while snow leopard is beneficial to melee builds and melee gameplay which gives you benefits in the area of mobility. Wolf would be a support themed spirit based around team play and what you can bring to the table, in the way of hunting with the pack to bring down your quarry.. (Maybe like in ESO with their werewolves, the more wolf norn you have in a party the more benefits there can be?) And Bear would be a more sustained tank/bruiser playstyle offering damage mitigation's, and ways of staying in the fight longer as well growing stronger the longer the fight goes on. So think of it kind of like once you reach a point the bear norn will be extremely powerful, the draw back is their speed takes a hit as they continue to "Bulk up". All of these come with the shapeshifting that we know the norn to be all about, you take the form of your chosen spirit when you are in combat which is the point where the trait line comes into play. ( Could add a feature for the norn to make it more interactive, not sure but would be cool.)
    • Dervish: For the humans their gods might of left but the Dervish's were warriors who used Aura's and augmented themselves with various buffs. This would be based around the god you choose in the beginning, again to make this choice have meaning. The unique flavoring would be you pulling power from the god realms which we now know still exist due to war Eternal, meaning that energy can still be present. And with some of them being anchored to our world due to dragonfall its not hard to think the humans might find a way to harness such power, Similar to the norn you imbue yourself with the power of said realm. In doing so you gain aura's (Not sure how, by command or just passively) which benefit you in specific ways. Balthazar could be all about sustain, fire and melee combat (Skulls for the skull throne!) And Grenth could be all about darkness, chill, and occult like magic swirling around the user. This would like the norn mean that a Warrior born under balthazar would be completely unique when standing next to one of the other gods.... as it should be.
    • Legionnaire: For the charr we have their legion benefit them in specific ways, Blood is all about melee, ash is all about stealth and mobility and Iron is all about technology and how it can augment ones performance. As a bonus FLAME legion is all about magic and the addition of magical protections upon the user, since we are in a point where I think they might be good guys from here on out it would be a good way to make the game feel fresh. Add them in as a bonus but make it so there is a way you could choose to join them, during the Ice-brood saga we could also include the olmakhan if we wanted and have them be about magical protection? This way they have four putting them on an even standing with the others.
    • Savant: For asuran its their colleges and the lessons they teach, Im not honestly sure how this would work as I know next to nothing about the race as I couldn't be bothered to care really about their existence within guild wars 2. I like the race but their lore is lost on me~ Feel free to come up with something.
    • Wild hunt valiant: The cycle of day in which you're born is what decides what type of valiant you are, same as the others they give you specific flavor based on what you would have chosen during the character creation.

    Note before you START your poo poo; These add flavor and a tiny pinch of power. They in no way should make it so X is better than Y in a racial choice; But it could encourage people who say ONLY play humans to try playing another race for the flavor alone. This could go a long way to make the races feel special, unique and choosing one is choosing how you interact with the world because as it stands now the racial choices seem pointless. I feel like they could completely be removed and it wouldn't make a difference once so ever. I mainly just want some flavor for the race I choose and the class I pick, Id like to see my norn warrior feel a bit different to my friends charr warrior and each be unique outside of some wonky animations and the fact that all I really have is tattoos. I know this will be poo pooed on; I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    Anet is having difficulties balancing the existing classes and you want to add another layer on top of that with the races?

    I exactly want that. I want my race to matter, Balance can never happen so at this stage I don't care anymore.... fun is above all. Something could be perfectly balanced and if it wasn't fun Id never touch it. Again just remove everything, hand the players a stick and give us all one skill~ People will still kitten that the stick is too op.

    I disagree with the mentality that if balance can't happen then all efforts to prevent it from getting worse should be abandoned.

    I disagree with you knowing what balance is, because I've seen clearly that the community knows nothing about balance. People whine that X is OP but they refuse to use the tools to counter X and refuse to learn. PvP is the same kitten its always been "I lost to this class, must be OP." Well if you stand still and die sure I guess it could be considered so, just because your skill ceiling is lower than theirs doesn't mean its broken. There is NO CLASS breaking the game right now, there are overpreforming parts of specific classes and they are being looked at.

    However it shouldn't distill the fun down to a fraction of what it was, nor should it strip classes of their unique depth and they should aim to make everything unique to stand apart from their competition. Simple fact is they shouldn't listen to the community when it comes to balance because the most vocal people don't want balance, they want the class they dislike gutted and left for dead. There is no grey area there. You, I and anybody not on that team right now can't sit here and tell them what balance is as honestly we don't have the numbers.. CMC said that Dragon-hunter is overpreforming when he spoke to tea-pot. Dragon-hunter is being looked at, Its oppressive and it does get a lot for simply existing as does guardian as a whole. But does it break the game? No. I've walked into their traps and laughed as I kill them because they think ill die, and all I do is beat them senseless because their entire kit is just about on cooldown.

    They did a good job last patch, the game feels pretty even and there are a lot of facets people refuse to play. You wana know how to counter a class? Play it, play its specs and test it yourself and learn that class. It makes facing them that much easier~ Then Im sure people would see balance is not as bad as they claim it is. And if you wana see balance hell go play ESO, BDO or WoW all of them are in a very nasty place right now. (ESO is even trying to do what guild wars is doing right now.)

    Im asking for flavor, for depth and for more than a simplified system of traits that simply put when its done being distilled down will feel as meaningless as say getting a broken spoon. Again if you want balance remove the classes, hand everyone a stick and then give us auto attacks and watch how many people complain that the STICK is too OP and needs nerfs despite it being the same stick on every class with the same interactions, make traits be turned off. Do this for a week and then see how fun the game is, because that is what people are asking for. Homogenization; Perfect balance can never exist and I think we are just about to the point where the game is at its peak balance. Too much further and the game might be irreparably damaged in both nature, fluidity and fun which for a lot of people has already happened so again your opinion is yours. Mine is mine.

    Agree to disagree, and move on. ~ This is to anyone who disagrees as I don't seek approval. Im merely pitching Ideas to the dev's so they can think about it... Im to the point where I don't much care what the "Community" thinks.

  • I agree with you. It would give more variety if race was a decisive factor that incentivate players to choose this or that. I always see 90% human female characters everywhere I go.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    All I see are unneeded balance issues and additional player limitations, because even if you have each class ready to play, you'd potentially have to either delete your character and remake it based on the race or spend for another character slot. So not to "poo poo on your idea", but I hate it. :D

    Its ok , All I See is people wanting homogenization so again lets just give everyone a stick with one ability then it can be balanced. Then you can be happy~

    Nope, this has nothing to do with "wanting homogenization". Did I want to reduce class disparities here and somehow didn't realize I was typing that out?
    The idea about implementing possibly meta-bending racial skills/specs/disparities especially at this point just makes little to no sense for the reason I've mentioned before and which you didn't even specifically comment on. Instead you've said we should give everyone a stick, which is nowhere near to what I wrote.
    Making suddenly the race significantly count in regards of power level or playstyle of your character would be terrible and would potentially force players to re-create whatever they play for no good reason. But that's not just it -you try to claim that it would potentially make people more open to playing different races. But if that's correct, it would still be for the wrong reasons where they wouldn't pick the race based on the lore/style/their own enjoyment, but based on the skills/traits that force their way into their playstyle/class of choice. I don't see anything positive about that, the "addition" you're proposing here is more limiting than anything else you claim in your posts.

    And I agree with the post above -if you don't care about opinions of the players then there's pretty much no good reason to post the idea on a public forum.

  • Antycypator.9874Antycypator.9874 Member ✭✭✭

    One of the best things in Guild Wars 2 is that we are not locked in races. Every race is equal, so there is no such a thing like "meta charr warrior" or "meta asura elementalist". You can create a charr mesmer or asura warrior, and your character won't be weaker/stronger than others just because of it's race.
    Building your character's strenght and skills through personal story (choices) makes everything complicated.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2020

    Remember when the speed runner sites told everyone to roll Sylvari because Take Root/Seed Turret represented higher DPS on Temptest than any other elite?
    Yeah me neither.

    World of Warcraft offers racials that "mean something". As a result, unless you have rolled the "correct" race for your spec in many cases you are at a disadvantage over those that have. It impacts your ability to get a group if you have rolled the "wrong" race.
    This is exactly the situation GW2's developers have attempted to avoid. There is no compelling reason to reverse this course just for @Thornwolf.9721 's vision of fun.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    It's entirely possible that your idea is being "poo pooed" on, not because the community reacts to every idea this way, but instead because your idea is objectively hot garbage.

    Balance can never happen so at this stage I don't care anymore....

    After this statement I don't think any single comment you will ever make about balance or other people's concerns about it are valid.

    @Edge.8724 said:
    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    This happens already. Go talk to Smoxxi on a human vs any other race.

  • I would much rather effort go into racial dialogue and improving the home instance idea than locking specs behind races. I have zero interest in an asuran spec, I have a lot of interest in actually being able to develop an asuran lab.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    Racial classes? Nah. That doesn't sound particularly fun.

    More racial dialogue? Yes please!

    Also, Racial Elites not being complete and utter trash? I'd be down for that.

    A Racial trait line? Could be neat, but most likely would be a horrible thing to balance and thus unlikely to happen.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    Remember when the speed runner sites told everyone to roll Sylvari because Take Root/Seed Turret represented higher DPS on Temptest than any other elite?
    Yeah me neither.

    World of Warcraft offers racials that "mean something". As a result, unless you have rolled the "correct" race for your spec in many cases you are at a disadvantage over those that have. It impacts your ability to get a group if you have rolled the "wrong" race.
    This is exactly the situation GW2's developers have attempted to avoid. There is no compelling reason to reverse this course just for @Thornwolf.9721 's vision of fun.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I really don't care at this point because as I said the community just bashes on any Idea no matter what it is unless it is something that brings more of the same. (No faith in anyone to really actually offer constructive additions at this point.)

    It's entirely possible that your idea is being "poo pooed" on, not because the community reacts to every idea this way, but instead because your idea is objectively hot garbage.

    Balance can never happen so at this stage I don't care anymore....

    After this statement I don't think any single comment you will ever make about balance or other people's concerns about it are valid.

    @Edge.8724 said:
    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    This happens already. Go talk to Smoxxi on a human vs any other race.

    I mean I disregard almost everything people say on the forums, so more power to you. Have you seen some of the ludicrous statements on balance lately? The community would have you believe that all the classes are overpowered and need to be gutted not nerfed. When in reality is poor play on their part and a fundamental lack of understanding over basic mechanics and gameplay. The lack of drive to learn and the unwillingness to even attempt to offer anything of real weight or constructive criticism back much like you yourself showcase. Honestly I wouldn't want nor do I care to hear your opinion but I had to comment on yours specifically because you are exactly what the bulk, of the vocal minority are. You poo poo on everything because you lack vision, creativity or even knowledge about the game and you come at me as if I aimed to offend you.

    I never said they needed to be stronger than one another, I clearly gave examples where the traitlines would give you the same exact thing another did but in another way? Ontop of that you don't have to give up your E-specs for it as it gets its own traitline, I Suppose you could open it up so that anyone could use any of these given they'd of learned it but I feel like that kind of flies in the face of customization as we then know it would be pointless. All I Want is flavor~ Clearly all you want again, is more of the same.

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    All I see are unneeded balance issues and additional player limitations, because even if you have each class ready to play, you'd potentially have to either delete your character and remake it based on the race or spend for another character slot. So not to "poo poo on your idea", but I hate it. :D

    Its ok , All I See is people wanting homogenization so again lets just give everyone a stick with one ability then it can be balanced. Then you can be happy~

    Nope, this has nothing to do with "wanting homogenization". Did I want to reduce class disparities here and somehow didn't realize I was typing that out?
    The idea about implementing possibly meta-bending racial skills/specs/disparities especially at this point just makes little to no sense for the reason I've mentioned before and which you didn't even specifically comment on. Instead you've said we should give everyone a stick, which is nowhere near to what I wrote.
    Making suddenly the race significantly count in regards of power level or playstyle of your character would be terrible and would potentially force players to re-create whatever they play for no good reason. But that's not just it -you try to claim that it would potentially make people more open to playing different races. But if that's correct, it would still be for the wrong reasons where they wouldn't pick the race based on the lore/style/their own enjoyment, but based on the skills/traits that force their way into their playstyle/class of choice. I don't see anything positive about that, the "addition" you're proposing here is more limiting than anything else you claim in your posts.

    And I agree with the post above -if you don't care about opinions of the players then there's pretty much no good reason to post the idea on a public forum.

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Agree to disagree, and move on. ~ This is to anyone who disagrees as I don't seek approval. Im merely pitching Ideas to the dev's so they can think about it... Im to the point where I don't much care what the "Community" thinks.

    Then why bother posting to a public forum? You should just contact the devs directly.

    figured Id kill two birds with one stone. The answer is simple, I have a rite to a voice and I choose to use it. I don't need the approval of people who don't matter to me over a screen where they can say and do as they please. I've learned many times to distance myself from communities in games; Typically they are horrible and not worth the time of really giving much too. It was placed where the dev's could see it and perhaps take it and build it properly as its merely a rough-draft of Ideas; I had one so I offered it up to them and by proxy you lot..

    Again why should I care when I know the outcome? People did this about mounts, expansions, pvp, balance, classes, the revenant as a whole and so on. There is always negativity and hate spewed at a new idea regardless of its function or potential and its why nothing ever gets done. The opposition rather than taking an idea and making it better, would rather burn it to the ground. Its why our world is basically a clown fiesta ~

  • @Edge.8724 said:
    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    Your main idea sounds really nice, but very unlikely since races will now have an advantage over another thus inevitably making some races "meta" build-wise.

    @Edge.8724 said:
    Speaking of "racial depth", I wish I had dialogues between the player and the other npcs based on your race. Everyone feels the same right now and it's just the same texts but with different voice actors.

    Your main idea sounds really nice, but very unlikely since races will now have an advantage over another thus inevitably making some races "meta" build-wise.

    run around The Grove as sylvari and as human. You trigger different NPC chatter and you have different npc-dialogue.

  • Ooh, I'd like a Measurehead profession too which can only be played by the Semenese. Its play style would revolve primarily around spouting nonsense and looking much tougher than it actually is. Also, all of its chat dialogue would automatically be in caps. Oh, hang on, this isn't that kind of racial thread.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs

    And people who can't cook can't make an omelette at all. You've come up with the kind of idea that is commonly disregarded in MMO forums because it would work fine in a single-player game but would make a multiplayer experience less fun. Sacrifices made in the name of lore are ultimately not worth it.