How do you not be a trash thief that does 0 damage?

I've never been good at thief but I've been trying out the dagger/pistol daredevil build and it literally does like 2k at most unless you land a backstab. And landing a backstab with this next to impossible, at least in a 1v1.

On top of that, nearly everything seems to instantly cleanse blinds. I watched some video showing off the build and the seemed to imply that you just do a few autos in pistol 5, cast a heartseeker, and you're good to go. But blinds never last and my autos do like 200 damage. So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

I don't understand why thief requires literally perfect play to be efficient or watching every single cast for perfect timing when nearly every other profession has a build that can perform the same role but twice as easy?

The only build I think is total bull is the sword/dagger build because thieves just use it to spam teleport. But even that does little to no damage unless you time your evades just right.

I'm always out of initiative, my abilities never land, my blind never lasts, my damage when it does land is miniscule, I'm somehow always out of range of steal, and stealth doesn't last long enough to get in position to land a backstab.

So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot? I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.

You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a bitch and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I've never been good at thief but I've been trying out the dagger/pistol daredevil build and it literally does like 2k at most unless you land a backstab. And landing a backstab with this next to impossible, at least in a 1v1.

On top of that, nearly everything seems to instantly cleanse blinds. I watched some video showing off the build and the seemed to imply that you just do a few autos in pistol 5, cast a heartseeker, and you're good to go. But blinds never last and my autos do like 200 damage. So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

I don't understand why thief requires literally perfect play to be efficient or watching every single cast for perfect timing when nearly every other profession has a build that can perform the same role but twice as easy?

The only build I think is total bull is the sword/dagger build because thieves just use it to spam teleport. But even that does little to no damage unless you time your evades just right.

I'm always out of initiative, my abilities never land, my blind never lasts, my damage when it does land is miniscule, I'm somehow always out of range of steal, and stealth doesn't last long enough to get in position to land a backstab.

So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot? I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.

Shhhhh, not so loud!!! We do not dare suggest Thief is actually not brutally OP but rather is a noodle plushie that can only and only run! Somebody might hear you keep your voice down!!

So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

None, not even joking, definitely do run Rev If you can and if you don't mind leaving Thief.

Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot?

Yes absolutely, thief is the only profession in game that can't afford to face tank or turn his brain off because Thief is the only spec that doesn't have access to stab and prot or at least to high armor or HP. Historically Thief has always relied on knowledge of other professions heavily.

I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.

This is the only reason + you can run portal as viable choice, however since Misha played few matches as mes with portal then I think even this part of Thief will get pushed off.

Anyway, like I said, never dare suggest Thief is not OP bs otherwise all those people playing specs that have 9/10 advantages and only 1 downside will descend on to you about how Thief with its 2/10 advantages (mobility and evasion when it happens to not be a locked-in frame death sentence) and 8/10 downsides is the most unfair and broken spec.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

you can look at my twitch/youtube to see how its played, but i do agree with you. We are limited to being a +1 role yet even in that scenario we struggle now - is it because thief is weak? Perhaps, is it cus other classes overperform? Probably. So i'd say it's a mix of both.

The fact that thief even struggles to kill stuff in a scenario where you are a person more than what you are ganking should ring some bells. But don't dare say thief is weak or the whole community will eat you alive :)

nerf teef

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I've never been good at thief but I've been trying out the dagger/pistol daredevil build and it literally does like 2k at most unless you land a backstab. And landing a backstab with this next to impossible, at least in a 1v1.

On top of that, nearly everything seems to instantly cleanse blinds. I watched some video showing off the build and the seemed to imply that you just do a few autos in pistol 5, cast a heartseeker, and you're good to go. But blinds never last and my autos do like 200 damage. So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

I don't understand why thief requires literally perfect play to be efficient or watching every single cast for perfect timing when nearly every other profession has a build that can perform the same role but twice as easy?

The only build I think is total bull is the sword/dagger build because thieves just use it to spam teleport. But even that does little to no damage unless you time your evades just right.

I'm always out of initiative, my abilities never land, my blind never lasts, my damage when it does land is miniscule, I'm somehow always out of range of steal, and stealth doesn't last long enough to get in position to land a backstab.

So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot? I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.

Welcome to the world of Thief. Where everything was nerfed so hard in the span of 2-3 years that it's a complete joke of a class now.. and yet some people still complain that Thief is OP. My only suggestion - don't play it and do yourself a favor. Lots of us OG Teefs switched to being Revs. Even the fact that we are limited to being decappers and shouldn't 1v1 really tells you alot about the class. A class that basically can't 1v1.. that speaks volumes. And btw.. if u do end up playing.. decapping doesnt always work out. If your teammates are down and if your enemy team is rotating very well or even if your teammate decides to go far.. u won't have a chance to decap nor you'll have chance to help your teammates either. You depend alot on rotations of both teams. Oh and also disable chat go offline. U don't want to see that believe me. I switched to Thief - PvE. Revenant - PvP/WvW. Funny thing is.. Thief isn't even #1/2 DPS in PvE anymore.

First put out of ur head the bias bs the forum poster had u thinking about thief still being a burst spec lol anet neutered thiefs burst so bad it gets out burst by tanks. 2nd is as a dp power thief u literally have to outplay most specs while avoiding being hit by more than a few hits all while hitting them 30 or so times within the minute or 2 long fight, its gonna be that long against most specs except mesmer and a bad ele.Dp is great for decap running, good at +1 if ur teamate can burst well(lol) while u 1000 cut along with them.Just keep practicing and eventually ull be able to outplay a core necro for 2 mins, hit it 50 times all while it continually shrouds whenever it's close to death and after couple mins u may down it lol.Anet teams so great at balance....I'm also trying to learn rev/war better lol

people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

Hate to break it to u all decent thieves kno the sit back in team fight and use poison and clusters, issue is it's not as effective as u make it out to be as most times that scenario ends with the thief outnumbered due to ur teammates still dying and thief is now forced to disengage. That IS the most effective team fight strategy for thief but it's not great. Thief still played at top cuz the players haven't gotten good enough on rev, if nothing changes in time players like sind prob be maining rev wrecking face and few thiefs will be left.

like everyone is saying its just better to play a rev than shortbow 5 bot

We have to put our builds together to be in service of our game modes mechanics, our team composition, and whatever time limits there are but then Thief is often "balanced" based on non thief players frustrations in what is largely 1v1 encounters even in team fights. The problem there is, what are their real frustrations fighting a thief? Do they not want to have to deal with creative stealth positioning, is it the perceived evade rate, is it our expensive disengage potential in lieu of passive mitigation, or is it the Stealth Attack itself? So, all of those things tend to be flattened together gradually instead of precisely regulating the one thing because they don't know what the one thing is that those players want "balanced".

The player base and the devs have to decide what exactly it is that they can't handle about the Thief or what build and precisely what can be adjusted, not balanced, without leaving thieves out of team compositions. I can put together a pretty effective gimmick build in WvW that can pack some other stuff into and around those blinds but other game modes like spvp, raids, or whatever have all aspects of the match or encounter funneling to a point and time and the thief needs to be able to get to where they need to be, have to potential to survive a fight, but still be effective in their builds role. I do like some of the changes recently but there definitely has been collateral damage to even our basic stuff over time that seem aimless, like any time our auto attacks get nerfed after we've gotten used to using them a lot more because our big hitters got flattened before.

@"kash.9213" said:We have to put our builds together to be in service of our game modes mechanics, our team composition, and whatever time limits there are but then Thief is often "balanced" based on non thief players frustrations in what is largely 1v1 encounters even in team fights. The problem there is, what are their real frustrations fighting a thief? Do they not want to have to deal with creative stealth positioning, is it the perceived evade rate, is it our expensive disengage potential in lieu of passive mitigation, or is it the Stealth Attack itself? So, all of those things tend to be flattened together gradually instead of precisely regulating the one thing because they don't know what the one thing is that those players want "balanced".

The player base and the devs have to decide what exactly it is that they can't handle about the Thief or what build and precisely what can be adjusted, not balanced, without leaving thieves out of team compositions. I can put together a pretty effective gimmick build in WvW that can pack some other stuff into and around those blinds but other game modes like spvp, raids, or whatever have all aspects of the match or encounter funneling to a point and time and the thief needs to be able to get to where they need to be, have to potential to survive a fight, but still be effective in their builds role. I do like some of the changes recently but there definitely has been collateral damage to even our basic stuff over time that seem aimless, like any time our auto attacks get nerfed after we've gotten used to using them a lot more because our big hitters got flattened before.

Due to the nature of thiefs design any aspect be it mechanics or skills that are effective with be in turn annoying to fight for the opponent leading to nerfs cries. It's up to the development and balance team to know this and also expect this and not let the majority of nerf cries steer their balance on a class like thief but unfortunately they are not following that creed and are just killing the class and as a whole well we know how good the population is in the game right now. I wouldn't expect to see thief in a better spot any time soon or ever with the current team in place and I doubt the longevity of this game will be long enough to see another team.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"kash.9213" said:We have to put our builds together to be in service of our game modes mechanics, our team composition, and whatever time limits there are but then Thief is often "balanced" based on non thief players frustrations in what is largely 1v1 encounters even in team fights. The problem there is, what are their real frustrations fighting a thief? Do they not want to have to deal with creative stealth positioning, is it the perceived evade rate, is it our expensive disengage potential in lieu of passive mitigation, or is it the Stealth Attack itself? So, all of those things tend to be flattened together gradually instead of precisely regulating the one thing because they don't know what the one thing is that those players want "balanced".

The player base and the devs have to decide what exactly it is that they can't handle about the Thief or what build and precisely what can be adjusted, not balanced, without leaving thieves out of team compositions. I can put together a pretty effective gimmick build in WvW that can pack some other stuff into and around those blinds but other game modes like spvp, raids, or whatever have all aspects of the match or encounter funneling to a point and time and the thief needs to be able to get to where they need to be, have to potential to survive a fight, but still be effective in their builds role. I do like some of the changes recently but there definitely has been collateral damage to even our basic stuff over time that seem aimless, like any time our auto attacks get nerfed after we've gotten used to using them a lot more because our big hitters got flattened before.

which is why its just better to reroll to a rev they pretty much can do a thieves job but better

@ArcanistSeven.8720 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"kash.9213" said:We have to put our builds together to be in service of our game modes mechanics, our team composition, and whatever time limits there are but then Thief is often "balanced" based on non thief players frustrations in what is largely 1v1 encounters even in team fights. The problem there is, what are their real frustrations fighting a thief? Do they not want to have to deal with creative stealth positioning, is it the perceived evade rate, is it our expensive disengage potential in lieu of passive mitigation, or is it the Stealth Attack itself? So, all of those things tend to be flattened together gradually instead of precisely regulating the one thing because they don't know what the one thing is that those players want "balanced".

The player base and the devs have to decide what exactly it is that they can't handle about the Thief or what build and precisely what can be adjusted, not balanced, without leaving thieves out of team compositions. I can put together a pretty effective gimmick build in WvW that can pack some other stuff into and around those blinds but other game modes like spvp, raids, or whatever have all aspects of the match or encounter funneling to a point and time and the thief needs to be able to get to where they need to be, have to potential to survive a fight, but still be effective in their builds role. I do like some of the changes recently but there definitely has been collateral damage to even our basic stuff over time that seem aimless, like any time our auto attacks get nerfed after we've gotten used to using them a lot more because our big hitters got flattened before.

Already have, just need week or more unranked to learn it well enough to go ranked. I dont want to lower people's ranks as I try to learn.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

you are literally making no sense,when a class is truely bad, it will not be played at top level at all, no excuses, with 0 presence in the mAT last month in the finals. like some classes.

it's still played in top because people are not good at rev? the problem is with rev, not thief. without rev, thief will still be top, this game doesnt just play with 2 classes.what happens when anet nerf rev, like it's already guaranteed, thief will remain top.what happen to for example war when anet nerf rev? war is still trash, because there's still ranger, ele, fb, holo, necro etc.

meh, i never said any word when warrior are competing at mAT even tho it's 1/2 of the number of thieves, of mesmers. of fb.because i know, it's competing in the finals for a reason.

you've remained best and meta for so long, you failed to see how being second place in top level doesn't make you all the way trash.as long as people competing with thief in top levels, it is meta.

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:people always forget about shortbow, when in team fight, apply poison field constantly, that's 33% of enemy sustain gone(u don't even need to do damage) and also apply CC.and that's how your team will out perform your enemy team in terms of dps. and you can go in with dp to finish running low HP enemy often your team will take too much effort to catch

or if your team losing, or the fight is too long, decap.rev outperforms in +1 and brawling, but decap/shut down thief is still king, that's why it's still played in top.

U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:First put out of ur head the bias bs the forum poster had u thinking about thief still being a burst spec lol anet neutered thiefs burst so bad it gets out burst by tanks. 2nd is as a dp power thief u literally have to outplay most specs while avoiding being hit by more than a few hits all while hitting them 30 or so times within the minute or 2 long fight, its gonna be that long against most specs except mesmer and a bad ele.Dp is great for decap running, good at +1 if ur teamate can burst well(lol) while u 1000 cut along with them.Just keep practicing and eventually ull be able to outplay a core necro for 2 mins, hit it 50 times all while it continually shrouds whenever it's close to death and after couple mins u may down it lol.Anet teams so great at balance....I'm also trying to learn rev/war better lol

The people that complained the loudest about thief complained about the disengage, evades and stealth the most or that "they just run away and reset the fight". With power damage slashed as it has been the thief must still rely on those three and even more so. The damage out just not translate to "sticking in a fight" so it has to be all hit and run.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:U actually are not making sense. Thief is played still at high level because sb5 allows it to rotate to decap, that is literally thief's only strength now and if conquest didn't operate as it does thief would be a completely dead class. Ur a warrior main forgive me if I value my opinion playing a class 6 yrs vs u who doesn't play the class lol. I love this community where players who don't play a class or don't have much experience on it try and tell mains of the class the state the class is in, its priceless.

Exactly this. That's the issue i've been seeing that everyone is ignoring. It's not normal for a class to be so vulnerable that it has to only stick to decapping role. Delete conquest mode and suddenly your eyes open up and you're asking "So what can Thief even do now? Would i want a partner Thief in my 2v2 arena against Holo/Rev/FB/SB? Hell no. Useless class. Cant do anything.." Switch to healing? Switch to bunker? 1v1 build? Nope we dun have those options. Similar issues arise in PvE in how limited your role is and when you're not #1 dps? Well you're useless.. but PvE is another story nvm. Before HoT i remember i was able to decap if i wanted but i also could 1v1 and hold a node or even ress-up half of my team (cuz sometimes you need to. your team rotates in such way that you gotta stay at node and hold it). But when this class became only a decapper... that's when we have issues. No class in a healthy MMO should have issues 1v1'ing. It's ok when it's rock-paper-scissors in that sense that some professions counter one another..completely normal. You just don't fight such encounters or you fight against em knowing that you are goin against all odds but still have chance to win if you're good. (that's how it was pre-HoT/early HoT). But when you literally become always paper vs. scissors against every profession and skill doesn't even matter anymore? That's a problem.

Anet wont ever buff thief tho, to threatened by community backlash from non thief players so itl remain a decap bot, best to move on. Long ago if anet balance team had a clue they wouldn't have nerfed thief's autos and bursts and instead thought of ways to lessen thief's impact in conquest like for example making sb5 8 ini so if u use it once ud have to wait a couple secs to do a second one slowing thief's ability to rotate slightly but also leaving thief with the option to be highly mobile at a cost. I'm sure most thief players would rather have slightly less mobility, rotating prowess but actually have killing power more so than just being a decap runner.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:First put out of ur head the bias bs the forum poster had u thinking about thief still being a burst spec lol anet neutered thiefs burst so bad it gets out burst by tanks. 2nd is as a dp power thief u literally have to outplay most specs while avoiding being hit by more than a few hits all while hitting them 30 or so times within the minute or 2 long fight, its gonna be that long against most specs except mesmer and a bad ele.Dp is great for decap running, good at +1 if ur teamate can burst well(lol) while u 1000 cut along with them.Just keep practicing and eventually ull be able to outplay a core necro for 2 mins, hit it 50 times all while it continually shrouds whenever it's close to death and after couple mins u may down it lol.Anet teams so great at balance....I'm also trying to learn rev/war better lol

True but in a hit and run playstyle the hit has to be impactful enough that when u run u accomplished something when u hit, right now u may as well just run cuz if u hit u gotta hit 20 times before running to make a impact on the opponents hp.Hit run is a common rogue playstyle for sure but the opponent is supposed to feel ur hit before u run.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

Not so much troll as much as "try to uneven even fights", but yes, its that and decapping. If your team is constantly dying and their team can guard the points, you lose. Its as simple as that. Thief is extremely reliant on his team matching theirs. If theyre getting crushed, the enemy team is useless.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

You run away. Thats the first and most important lesson any new thief has to learn, when and how to run away. Because you will be running away a lot. If the fight is lost, get out and see if you can find a new one.

lol I just don't see the point.

The point is that you can turn even fights uneven, and upset the balance between 2 teams. Of course, if your team is worse than theirs, there isnt much you can do, but arguably there isnt much you can do on most classes. But its an unusual playstyle, and you have to like it. If you tried playing thief wanting to be an assassin or a duelist, Im afraid youre playing the wrong class.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

It didn't used to be that way though! And I've still seen some thieves that seemingly wreck people, including me, either dagger/pistol or sword/dagger and I have no idea how they do so much damage at once. Landing sword 3 ability after evade seems to be the best way to do damage with that build but I feel like it's next to impossible to land. Sword to immobilize seems to be kind of buggy for me. For that build it seems like it's just spamming sword 2 and avoiding as much damage as possible while occasionally landing decent damage.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

I mean, exactly like this? No. But thief had been a decap and +1 bot for a long time. A very long time. And if theyre "wrecking" people, its usually low-health targets theyre finishing off, or theyre playing a bad build and you just see the rare times where it works, rather than the 90% where the build sucks.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

It does really poor damage. Backstabs usually hit for 5k or less nowadays, which is far from impressive. And honestly, no class should ever lose a duel against a D/P thief. D/P thieves damage and sustain is just outclassed by everyone.

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

Swipe sucks, but thats not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is actually that Assassins Signet got a bugfix that was a major nerf, as well as the general lowering of damage but not survivability with the last patch. Still, you can +1 people sometimes.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

Yeah thieves current situation is less than ideal. The assassin's signet bugfix nerf lowered damage by a lot, and tankiness went up hard, so now even +1ing is often not really all that effective.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

Decap.

They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

Save an escape in case they turn on you

Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

Move around and be pesky.

Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

Thief has no honor, so play with none.

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

Assasin Signet used to give 15% damage increae + the current 560 attack power . It was a bug

You can use these second spec linked that was tested by the creator of the thread , where you cc the enemy + burst him in 6 sec .https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103273/how-should-i-improve-my-burst-combo-on-thief#latest