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Question regarding counters.

Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

So I was wondering something: Have classes with big aoes always hard countered you guys? It seems like the biggest way to destroy your illusions and phantasms is node controls like necros and guardians and revs and possibly engineers with aoes, specifically holosmiths, because they have really large aoe bombs they can place on points in SPVP or is this new phenomenon that is more recent? Just curious

Here is my list of characters i got so far:

Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

Comments

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭
    edited April 19, 2020

    No lol. Aoes don't hard counter mesmers. Clones don't do damage, and phnatasms use their skill and become clones, so you'd rather dodge that phantasm skill than using your burst skills/or aoe skills on phantasm. Just don't focus on those, focus on the real player (you can even tag him if you have troubles identifying, but meh)
    This is the reason mesmer gets so much hate and nerfs, because you guys don't have any clue how to play vs mesmers. Here is my advise to you, create a lvl 1 mesmer and go to pvp with any build you find on internet and try to do something, get disappointed and delete that mesmer for good... that will answer your question better than anything.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't want to delete mesmers though, nor do i want them to be gutted.

    I was merely asking about something because i was curious about control points.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2020

    Yes, aoes and cleave counter mesmers to a degree.
    No clones = less damage and less survival.

    The degenerate

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    yep things like nec's fear mark or ring, dh trap and your clones won't even reach target if you shatter
    mostly you wanna create clones to shatter them right away otherwise they indeed suffer from aoe and just die
    mes doesn't have a lot of node control nowadays anyway, better as roamer

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

    nobody here says attack clones with aoe
    you aoe so you hit both mes and clones hence topic starter asked if it always countered mes which it pretty much did

    Yeah, that was actually what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to using it to counter mes off point, but using it on points in order to force mesmers off point. I was just wondering if it could be used in that way to force them to leave the point.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

    nobody here says attack clones with aoe
    you aoe so you hit both mes and clones hence topic starter asked if it always countered mes which it pretty much did

    Yeah, that was actually what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to using it to counter mes off point, but using it on points in order to force mesmers off point. I was just wondering if it could be used in that way to force them to leave the point.

    It is actually a no brainer to not get into aoes, no matter it is a mesmer, revenant ranger, necro or anything else, if anyone sees an aoe he doesn't want to get into it. It is the same thning to say that damage counters healthbars. Yet again: NO, AOEs don't specifically HARD counter mesmers in spvp.

  • Never have cared about clones while fighting mesmers. They are more of less visual clutter to make inexperienced player confused. Would not waste any skill for them, not even an auto attack.
    For phantasms, if you can dodge then dodge. If you cant, then oh well its some avoidable damage you took. They become clone after their one attack and hence visual clutter.
    Clones are only useful for the mesmer if they are running shatter build, its like revenant energy or necro life force which enemy can see and also kill if they choose to.
    But enemies effort are mostly focused towards kill the actual mesmer and not clones. If some clones die while killing actual mesmer with aoe who cares lol.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

    nobody here says attack clones with aoe
    you aoe so you hit both mes and clones hence topic starter asked if it always countered mes which it pretty much did

    Yeah, that was actually what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to using it to counter mes off point, but using it on points in order to force mesmers off point. I was just wondering if it could be used in that way to force them to leave the point.

    It is actually a no brainer to not get into aoes, no matter it is a mesmer, revenant ranger, necro or anything else, if anyone sees an aoe he doesn't want to get into it. It is the same thning to say that damage counters healthbars. Yet again: NO, AOEs don't specifically HARD counter mesmers in spvp.

    I think you misunderstand, example is in order.
    Rev uses dragon pulsing aoe to hit mesmer, mesmer dodges.
    Mesmer uses shatter to shatter 3 clones, 3 clones run towards rev but 2 of them run through aoe and die, and do nothing.
    Aoe not only forced mesmer to dodge/reposition but also cleaved 2/3 clones while denying zone.

    Another example, FB uses line of warding to knock you down/deny area, after you reposition you use phantasm, but it walks into like of warding, gets knock down on his kitten and dissapears. ( berserkers tend to do that alot, most other phantasms dont due to range but its rng where they appear, sometimes unluck dude appears in aoe and ded )

    I would say that illusions/phantasms can be good against necro/dh, they trigger their marks/traps and thus deny some abilities, but its questionable how good it is expecially against necro, it gives them lifeforce and the more important marks wont be thrown willy nilly but aimed at you from the start.

    So yes, aoe absolutely counters mesmer, more then any other class, expecially aoe CC and blinds, since it can deny phantasms expecially, most people dont notice how little their phantasms do most of the time.

    Aye, i agree with you. Well said

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

    nobody here says attack clones with aoe
    you aoe so you hit both mes and clones hence topic starter asked if it always countered mes which it pretty much did

    Yeah, that was actually what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to using it to counter mes off point, but using it on points in order to force mesmers off point. I was just wondering if it could be used in that way to force them to leave the point.

    It is actually a no brainer to not get into aoes, no matter it is a mesmer, revenant ranger, necro or anything else, if anyone sees an aoe he doesn't want to get into it. It is the same thning to say that damage counters healthbars. Yet again: NO, AOEs don't specifically HARD counter mesmers in spvp.

    I think you misunderstand, example is in order.
    Rev uses dragon pulsing aoe to hit mesmer, mesmer dodges.
    Mesmer uses shatter to shatter 3 clones, 3 clones run towards rev but 2 of them run through aoe and die, and do nothing.

    No experienced mesmer would ever do that, we don't need 3 clones to run through aoes, if that happens it is either a lack of mesmer's skill, a misplay, or maybe just a distraction, I donno, I won't ever let 3 clones run in the battlefield like that. The only time that it can happen is when some ranged phantasms become clones and run towards their target, which is just how the phantasms work, it is rare that mesmer will shatter those clones, as they are very predictable, or if he does means he doesnt care much about commiting and is going to wait some cooldowns, and sends those clones to death hoping to get some free damage (again he wouldn't expect to oneshot someone with that even without aoes 3 clones running to be shattered somewhere would hardly do some real damge realistically).. What mesmer really needs is to hit his daze and while the daze is active (which is like really a short time) shatter a clone and himself ontop on his target (yes shatter effect occurs on mesmers and does much more damage). That happens in a split second. Yes just 1 clone. Or if you do your combo perfectly 2 clones.. but those 2 are shattered as I said instantly.

    Aoe not only forced mesmer to dodge/reposition but also cleaved 2/3 clones while denying zone.

    I understand the idea behind what you want to say, but it will never happen against a somewhat experienced mesmer.

    Another example, FB uses line of warding to knock you down/deny area, after you reposition you use phantasm, but it walks into like of warding, gets knock down on his kitten and dissapears. ( berserkers tend to do that alot, most other phantasms dont due to range but its rng where they appear, sometimes unluck dude appears in aoe and ded )

    As I said phantasms is a whole another story. You can easily deny those with a cheap cc skill or a dodge. However you should know that unlike clones, phantasms have some health and you need somewhat good damage to kill them, which should be rather used on real mesmer than a phantasm.

    I would say that illusions/phantasms can be good against necro/dh, they trigger their marks/traps and thus deny some abilities, but its questionable how good it is expecially against necro, it gives them lifeforce and the more important marks wont be thrown willy nilly but aimed at you from the start.

    pff yes it is actually a thing to do, but it is more of an outplay mechanic rather than anything. not relevant in aoe topic.

    So yes, aoe absolutely counters mesmer, more then any other class, expecially aoe CC and blinds, since it can deny phantasms expecially, most people dont notice how little their phantasms do most of the time.

    Well if you really want to think that aoes counter mesmers, go on, not that I care, lol.. It isn't relevant anyway now regarding where mesmer found himself lately in the meta haha....

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mesmers don't control clones, mesmer opponents do it. If someone wants to lure your clones into aoe they'll do it.
    Every competent player, especially those with good in combat mobility will "exploit" this.

    The degenerate

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Yet again nope guys, if your clones survive long enough to die to aoes, you aren't doing that right I suppose. I have never had big problems with aoe damage as a mesmer player. I mean specifically mesmer, if I play mesmer or elementalist or whatever getting hit by aoe on node is not very pleasing. Anyway there is no any bunker mesmer build now, that aoe skills on long fights in nodes be relevant. You don't want to get into long fights with mesmers anyway and it has nothing to do with clones or phantasms. Clones are very squishy and die fast, but are replentished fast too, and normally they are shattered as soon as they are born. Phantasms aren't squishy but they don't like cc.. So what is kinda annoying are aoe CC skills. A good placed AOE CC can screw up any mesmer, but probably not worth spending that on mesmers + clones, I'd rather use it in a teamfight. The thing with cc is that it interrupts the phantasms and makes them become clones before doing their skill, apart from that AOE skills are better saved to be used in teamfights rather than wasted on mesmers clones.
    If I see that someone wants to "counter my mesmer" by aoeing my clones, it will be actually me countering them because my opponent will be using strong long cd aoe skills on uselss clones. What about shattering, if I play the power shatter build, and want to do my usual combo, clones would hardly survive long enough to die to aoes, they are shattered as soon as they are born. Even then if supposidly the mesmer player is very slow and his clones die to aoes, it shouldn't be a big problem, because if it is a clone based build, it means that build must have some good clone generation, while strong aoe skills normally have long cooldowns.
    There are many ways to counter mesmers, but using AOE skills on clones (actually anything based on focusing clones) is worse than anything else. This is how people are still getting destroyed by this dead class in low ranks.

    nobody here says attack clones with aoe
    you aoe so you hit both mes and clones hence topic starter asked if it always countered mes which it pretty much did

    Yeah, that was actually what I was referring to. I wasn't referring to using it to counter mes off point, but using it on points in order to force mesmers off point. I was just wondering if it could be used in that way to force them to leave the point.

    It is actually a no brainer to not get into aoes, no matter it is a mesmer, revenant ranger, necro or anything else, if anyone sees an aoe he doesn't want to get into it. It is the same thning to say that damage counters healthbars. Yet again: NO, AOEs don't specifically HARD counter mesmers in spvp.

    I think you misunderstand, example is in order.
    Rev uses dragon pulsing aoe to hit mesmer, mesmer dodges.
    Mesmer uses shatter to shatter 3 clones, 3 clones run towards rev but 2 of them run through aoe and die, and do nothing.
    Aoe not only forced mesmer to dodge/reposition but also cleaved 2/3 clones while denying zone.

    Another example, FB uses line of warding to knock you down/deny area, after you reposition you use phantasm, but it walks into like of warding, gets knock down on his kitten and dissapears. ( berserkers tend to do that alot, most other phantasms dont due to range but its rng where they appear, sometimes unluck dude appears in aoe and ded )

    I would say that illusions/phantasms can be good against necro/dh, they trigger their marks/traps and thus deny some abilities, but its questionable how good it is expecially against necro, it gives them lifeforce and the more important marks wont be thrown willy nilly but aimed at you from the start.

    So yes, aoe absolutely counters mesmer, more then any other class, expecially aoe CC and blinds, since it can deny phantasms expecially, most people dont notice how little their phantasms do most of the time.

    I actually didn't think of that, but thats actually a really good idea, so wouldn't that technically make necros with aoe well with blind strong vs mesmers? I haven't seen that kind of thing on other classes yet, but i know necros can do a aoe well blinding everyone and your illusions, and thus make mesmers suffer from having to leave point

    In fact, i just thought of another thing: If we can also not only blind the mesmer and his phantasms but then daze mesmer, preventing him on point from being able to even land more illusions, the mesmer would have to leave that point no?

    Mesmers are good at surviving with adds but necros are god like in area denial, and for instance we could be in team denying mes from claiming a point and forcing that mesmer to leave due to some frustration.

    While we are at it, whats more viable atm for SPVP? core mes or mirage?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Mesmers are good at surviving with adds but necros are god like in area denial, and for instance we could be in team denying mes from claiming a point and forcing that mesmer to leave due to some frustration.

    I think we are talking of another game, or another meta maybe or some unknown rank. Just to remind you guys, that bunker chrono is gone a long time ago, mesmers are roamers now, roamer is the only role that mesmers can play now (even there it is not meta). Roamer's job is not to stand in an area, but +1 his teammates finish off wouned opponents etc... I am really sorry most of those things are irrelevant, or maybe I am irrelevant, I will just leave,
    good luck on fighting mesmers though. I hope with some experience you will learn to destroy them.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not trying to say anything but mesmer's hardest counter is a class with probably the lowest AoE damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 clones are sheep, after they are summoned its your enemy that controls them, if they move properly they WILL get slaped with AOE.
    Line of warding in FB example knocks phantasm down, it means it get interrupted and they turn to illusion, hug the wall and you get phantasm immunity.
    Its not on mesmer to not let clones get cleaved, all you can do is try to spread them out and give them good line of sights to the enemy, but if you do that you can shatter them close together so it is what it is.
    @Lincolnbeard.1735 I agree
    @Axl.8924 That would work if blind well was actually good skill, ranged clones/phantasms still can shoot you, mesmer can stand on edge of the point and still keep attacking you, and even if mesmer is forced to go into you they can focus MANY hits in a small frame of time to avoid most of the pulsing blind
    For example p4 + jaunt + shatter + weaponswap ->axe2 etc etc, making quick 8-10 hits, and losing 1-2 hits from those is not a big deal, other skills would serve necro much better, blind well is just bad :/
    I think Mirage is better in SPVP, both are medicore but mirage wins due to mobility. The way I look at it, every class does what core mes can do but better.
    Roam as power core shatter? thief, rev or ranger does it better.
    Bunker as condi core? rev, prot holo, maybe necro etc does it much better.
    Mirage can afford to still be played due to mobility from jaunt/sword ambushes, IA, portal. If not for superspeed nerf in chaos core would be still viable.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    I'm not trying to say anything but mesmer's hardest counter is a class with probably the lowest AoE damage.

    The question is "does aoe counter mesmers?" not "is aoe the only counter to mesmers?".

    The degenerate

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2020

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    The question is "does aoe counter mesmers?" not "is aoe the only counter to mesmers?".

    That's why "I'm not trying to say anything".
    For example DH counters mesmer because of AoE, regardless of clones activating traps.

    However, single-target focus is way harder for mesmer, for example thief, DH (for F1) and ranger.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    The question is "does aoe counter mesmers?" not "is aoe the only counter to mesmers?".

    That's why "I'm not trying to say anything".
    For example DH counters mesmer because of AoE, regardless of clones activating traps.

    However, single-target focus is way harder for mesmer, for example thief, DH (for F1) and ranger.

    RN everything counters mesmer, DH becouse of aoe, thief we all know why, necros becouse they never take dmg, FB becouse of aoe cleanse, holo becouse perma dmg immune, ranger becouse pet 1shots mesmer etc etc :D

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    I think this sums up how to counter mesmer :p

    Number one thing in my opinion is getting the targeting minigame down - being able to use any combination of nearest/next/previous/cursor select, or whatever your preferred keybinds and method is, to refocus the mesmer asap. All well and good being able to notice visually immediately, but the targeting minigame has to strive to match that immediate visual recognition. Being able to maintain focus puts a lot of pressure on the mesmer, and then is just a case of noticing/burning key cooldowns - eg when F4 is blown, etc.

    But that's where aoe and cleave come in handy - eg if you don't necessarily have the player targeted but know where they are/might be, you can cleave/aoe to land damage without having to first play the targeting minigame. Makes it much easier to keep pressure on the mesmer in general, and can also have the supplementary benefit of getting rid of their fuel (clones).

    So it's a combination of all of that together, but being on top of your targeting is crucial imo.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.