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Your entitlement to my LFG requirements

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  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    No thanks, I'll stick to the people that have LI. There are people like you who will make all welcome squads to teach them.

    I still think using LI is not the best concept, its better than AP though, or the glory days of outright banning classes. I have over 30LI myself and when i see those requirements i just laugh. Im not the best player out there, i do slightly above average DPS(or so ive been told by the raid comms ive been with.) but the LI requirements tend to make me shy away from joining the group, even if its low.

    That's perfectly ok. You recognize that my group doesnt fit your needs and opt out. The system is working as intended. It's no sweat off your back if I'm stuck in lfg for 5 minutes longer.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

    Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still GASP actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

    This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

    EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

    There is a diference.
    If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

    When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

    And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.
    When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

    Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

    I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.
    Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....
    Alot of comunication required

    I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them.

    Teaching is done when the teacher wants to, not when someone else demands to be taught.

    See my comment above to person who you basically parroted. I'm not saying force anyone to do anything.

  • kiri.1467kiri.1467 Member ✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

    Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still GASP actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

    This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

    EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

    There is a diference.
    If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

    When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

    And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.
    When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

    Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

    I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.
    Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....
    Alot of comunication required

    I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

    Don't wait for training runs in lfg, join Raid Academy. It's how I started until I found a guild in my timezone willing to train and run raids.

    https://snowcrows.com/raids/training/

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @kiri.1467 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

    Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still GASP actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

    This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

    EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

    There is a diference.
    If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

    When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

    And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.
    When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

    Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

    I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.
    Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....
    Alot of comunication required

    I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

    Don't wait for training runs in lfg, join Raid Academy. It's how I started until I found a guild in my timezone willing to train and run raids.

    https://snowcrows.com/raids/training/

    I'm trying this again. When i joined before, because i was told i couldn't ping PuG runs i thought it was unfriendly because i didn't see how to start a group as someone who was starting out and didn't want to just wait around until someone would finally take me (and my schedule is kind of chaotic, so static feels out of the question).

    I found out they have a process where you start a group and after you get 6 people, you can ping for an instructor, so now i have some hope, i can actually start a group with them.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    I miss the times where someone goes : "Hey, yu don't meet the requirements for this group, sorry I gotta let yu go/ disallow yu from tagging along"
    And the other guy goes : "Aww, it's okay, I'll leave."
    And the group leader goes : "Sorry, goodluck finding another group!"

    These days it's like :
    WOW UNREALISTIC REQUIREMENTS
    or
    THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY I'M SUFFICIENT EVEN IF I DON'T MEET REQUIREMENTS
    or
    I CAUSED THAT WIPE 5 TIMES IN A ROW BECAUSE I'M LAGGING, BUT KNOW WHAT? I'M NOT GONNA LEAVE. I'M GONNA FORCE EVERYONE HERE TO ACCOMODATE ME, NOT FLAME ME WHEN I DIE, OR I WILL THROW A HISSY FIT AND POST IT ONTO REDDIT

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I miss the times where someone goes : "Hey, yu don't meet the requirements for this group, sorry I gotta let yu go/ disallow yu from tagging along"
    And the other guy goes : "Aww, it's okay, I'll leave."
    And the group leader goes : "Sorry, goodluck finding another group!"

    Sometimes a person might join a run with high requirements, and say outright: "I know the encounter well but I don't have 1000 KP", and instead of kicking, you might get a very good player. Other times, a player might cause a wipe due to inexperience and be like "sorry guys, I didn't know the boss would do that, I'm not very experienced in this fight", and instead of kicking them, you offer them a guild invite. After all, if you are playing Vale Guardian, got the healers and tanks covered and your ad is for 250 LI and someone with 10 LI (or no LI) joins and says "hey guys, I've not done this fight a lot of times, but I know the mechanics well." it might be enough to take them anyway. There are roles in a raid fight that require experience, and roles that do not.

    Honesty is what changes everything and allows players that do not meet requirements, to join such groups.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My gripe is that people want something that is not from the mode played. Also i get the feeling that the guy wanting LI is a shitster that wants to be carried , cause if he was good enough he will be in guild and wouldn't be kitten puging. So you want optimized speed runs find a guild and don't cover my pug realm with kitten.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Strikes are supposed to be steping stone to raids. This fight is not dificult compared to most of the raids. If the point is to introduce something where players can learn, then this dificulty is great.
    For example grithmar strike is extremly easy. Players will definitely not improve there.

    There's nothing in Fraenir that would help players improve. Those that will improve would have improved regardless. The rest will also not improve - they will just stop playing that content. So, we're basically back to the point Raids are at.

    Strikes are not "stepping stone to raids". They won't change the raid popularity in the slightest. They may be good for seeing which levels of difficulty (and what types of mechanics) are a cutoff for different percentages of population, but they won't ever be able to change those cutoff levels.

    What the strikes are now is as if Anet decided to create easy mode raids, but did not want to label them as such, and simply mixed the easy modes along with the hard difficulty ones. Without clearly marking the difficulty tiers, all it would accomplish would be a mess that would make everyone disappointed. And, surprise surprise, that's exactly what is happening now with strikes.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

    Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still GASP actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

    This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

    EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

    There is a diference.
    If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

    When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

    And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.
    When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

    Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

    Teaching runs are different from clear runs. I teach raids, fractals and strikes weekly - but these are NOT my clear runs. Teaching runs require few hours of investment for some things, whereas clear runs only take me 20 minutes or so. I do not wish to dedicate a few hours every time I want to run t4 fractals or strike missions. For raids it can be excused to spend more time as they are cleared once a week.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    Sometimes a person might join a run with high requirements, and say outright: "I know the encounter well but I don't have 1000 KP", and instead of kicking, you might get a very good player. Other times, a player might cause a wipe due to inexperience and be like "sorry guys, I didn't know the boss would do that, I'm not very experienced in this fight", and instead of kicking them, you offer them a guild invite. After all, if you are playing Vale Guardian, got the healers and tanks covered and your ad is for 250 LI and someone with 10 LI (or no LI) joins and says "hey guys, I've not done this fight a lot of times, but I know the mechanics well." it might be enough to take them anyway. There are roles in a raid fight that require experience, and roles that do not.

    Honesty is what changes everything and allows players that do not meet requirements, to join such groups.

    Yur missing the point of the entire thread.
    The main point here is that PLEASE RESPECT THE LFG, ESPECIALLY IF REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN STATED

    If the group decides to accept the member, then yea sure, all is cool.
    The thread kind of suggests that the player in question has already been rejected and the issue arises when a player gets unhappy about being rejected despite not meeting requirements starting all sorts of hoo ha.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The main point here is that PLEASE RESPECT THE LFG, ESPECIALLY IF REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN STATED

    Oh yes I know that requirements should be respected, joining a group without filling those, means you disrespect the team. I agree with the OP and your post. I simply stated if people where honest about their abilities (or lack of having the requirements) when joining, they might've been in a better place. In other words, I believe that honesty can skip requirements, not always, it depends on the group, the role and the boss, but it can work.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    This is kind of a hilarious thread. Y'all realize that other MMOs get their raids reset regularly, right? So like if you're behind on say, EP and you come in late that tier, in WoW you can catch up as much as you can through other means and when the next tier hits, you're on the same level more or less as everyone else, so people can't ask for KP, etc before letting you in to groups at the beginning of the new tier. GW2 has this unique issue where there isn't really anything resetting anyone's progress and no content is ever outdated per se.

    Not resetting progress means that there's no natural way that new players to jump into the content with experienced ones to allow for any kind of mixing. This is an issue with Strikes as well right now, they're starting to stratify just like raids (maybe not as bad, because plenty of people like me seem willing to PuG in a more casual manner and we still GASP actually succeed), but it's still a problem nonetheless that people are asking for KP in beginning group content. When I was learning boneskinner before EotN I actually didn't kick noob players I had in my group for this reason: I wanted them to have a good experience with the player base. That was probably my worst boneskinner clear ever and took longer, but I don't regret it at all for the impact it had on the new player who was fawning about how fun it was.

    This "I just want my rewards and other people are a means of getting it" mentality is just becoming a symptom of the way progress works in high-end PVE content. I mean that's really what you're saying when you make LFGs like that, you're not willing to teach anyone else. Which is just as toxic as not being willing to try/learn new things. And makes the community seem unfriendly. Maybe that's why blow-out metas are the most popular content in the game. just sayin' some of you are the creators of your own problems...

    EDIT: I want to make it clear that I like GW2's horizontal progression system, and I like that old content still has some value, it just brings its own challenges with it that neither the playerbase nor anet has done a good job of addressing.

    There is a diference.
    If you see someone (you dont know) has a problem with math homework, you can decide to help him/her (in this example for free). This is you teaching strikes to new players. But at the same time you could go to a movie with friends.

    When someone join strikes (with some lfg demands) without them, its like a kid that comes to you and give you his homework so you do it for him

    And huge mistake you made is this: you asume that players ask for high requirements becausethey want loot fast. That is not always the case. I ask for high requirements (well, I only do strikEs with raid static but for same reason why I would ask for high requirements) because I dont care about the loot or kill.
    When I do strikes or raids, I want to have fun. And I have fun if players come together, they take responsibilities, they comunicate and they try to make every effort to not only kill the boss, but do so in as efective way as possible. We could just take anything, go there and kill it while talking about cats but then it would be ~10 minutes of a chore. Or we can wait 30 minutes doing something fun while waiting for one pug to join and ten have 5 minutes of fun.

    Well in the long run if players aren't teaching new people, the number of people for your PuG will keep declining. The value of any mmo activity is in how much of the playet base it involves. If you take time to teach more people, you'll still get the fun you want, because you're communicating with them. Also, let's be real, there's usually less communication when people actually know what they're doing, and you're probably an outlier in the intent behind those high requirements.

    I teach new raiders almost every week. But only when I want to.
    Also I guess you never played with experianced raiders. There is alot of comunication required. Who cc on which bar, who block which mechanic, who does. Who use pulls when, the order of timewarps....
    Alot of comunication required

    I almost never see training runs going. If you're willing to help people that's great, i can tell you based on the ratio of training to non training runs in lfg, that my opinion of raiders (and community as it matures in any content) as a whole is that they have no desire to work with newer players/teach mechanics. If you're truly doing as you say my comments were in no way aimed at you.

    I never do training run in LFG. That is suicide. I do that in one of my guilds or training discord servers. If you want to learn raids (or strikes), then lfg is not a great place to start. And to be fair, not a great place to finish either.

    Then LFG for raids should just be deleted, period. They should have links or a UI for finding a community in the LFG tool instead. This content is not intended to be pugged in any way shape or form, that's what drives these insane requirements (and community furor), it doesn't build community and isn't healthy for the game. The raids themselves, I'm starting to change my mind, might actually be. But everything else around them, just is toxic poop unless you find a guild or community. Other games have puggable raids so it's just sending the wrong message to anyone experienced with MMOs to even have an LFG listing. Maybe they make an in-game feature like a community that has higher pools of players for people who like to PuG with experienced people, I don't know, but LFG tool and the way raids are designed is just plain tacky.

    I'm completely serious. I attempted a training run with raid academy for Mythwright gambit and it was actually fun. But I'm realizing, you need a lot of stuff in place to make a raid work (both in terms of people willing to teach as well as people with gear). And you have to really want to raid to build the gear sets to do raids, etc. It's best done helping people find people to play with and who will teach them what gear they need, and be willing to teach them how than to open up an LFG tool that is 90% full of crazy requirements and people advertising paid runs.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭

    People who are making these absurd requirements in strikes LFG are usually exactly the same people who made raid community flop flat. They just moved to the new pool, because old one is kinda dead and dry now.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    People who are making these absurd requirements in strikes LFG are usually exactly the same people who made raid community flop flat. They just moved to the new pool, because old one is kinda dead and dry now.

    Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

    Promoting unreasonably high requirements usually leads to overall higher requirements over time, and by doing that gradually blocks more and more new players from easy joining, which, in turn, gradually shrinks overall active population to the point of becoming insignificant and not worth their share of developing resources. That happened with raids, and now these people came to supposedly casual strike community, poisoning it as well.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Those same people did the same thing when only dungeons are fractals were available. The LFG requirements have had very minimal impact of the raid community.

    Promoting unreasonably high requirements usually leads to overall higher requirements over time, and by doing that gradually blocks more and more new players from easy joining, which, in turn, gradually shrinks overall active population to the point of becoming insignificant and not worth their share of developing resources. That happened with raids, and now these people came to supposedly casual strike community, poisoning it as well.

    Ive never seen more than a few groups for strikes with LFGs that are the same levels as raids. Further, as much i despise raids and that community that community did not migrate over to strikes, not fully at least.

    Im on NA and you can usually find 3-4 groups at any time*(when im on), with no requirements for all variety of strikes up to and including Whispers.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Except that is not what happened.

    What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

    What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

    You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

    I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state. For years, people were suggesting different measures that would help new players to get more experience and more skill in less difficult raid encounters. And for years people, same people who a still lurking there and on reddit, were yelling "NO, DO NOT WASTE RESOURCES, KEEP MAKING NEW WINGS FOR US, CAZULS GIT GUD MAKE YOUR OWN RAID LUL", were valiantly supporting each other in defending their views before developers, and promptly ignored everything even when it was obvious that situation is deteriorating rapidly. Actually, it is very hilarious to return here after a few years and realize that people like me were actually right. Though, it is not a very satisfying kind of feel.

    That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

    I did a few. Also, never ever joined a single strike LFG with any kind of LI/KP requirements.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Except that is not what happened.

    What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

    What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

    You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

    I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state. For years, people were suggesting different measures that would help new players to get more experience and more skill in less difficult raid encounters. And for years people, same people who a still lurking there and on reddit, were yelling "NO, DO NOT WASTE RESOURCES, KEEP MAKING NEW WINGS FOR US, CAZULS GIT GUD MAKE YOUR OWN RAID LUL", were valiantly supporting each other in defending their views before developers, and promptly ignored everything even when it was obvious that situation is deteriorating rapidly. Actually, it is very hilarious to return here after a few years and realize that people like me were actually right. Though, it is not a very satisfying kind of feel.

    and for years, players have been running training runs, put up guides, videos, training servers, etc.

    You are focusing on 1 aspect of what experienced players have been vocal about, and ignoring all the rest.

    As for not wanting easy mode raids: the answer is clearly seen with strikes. The development resources devoted to this type of content are to few for multiple difficulties. This has become very evident now, and was a main reason to be against easy mode raids.

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

    I did a few. Also, never ever joined a single strike LFG with any kind of LI/KP requirements.

    So in short: you are bascially screaming your displeasure from the sidelines at players who both keep the content alive and are actively engaged in it.

    Instead of judging others or demanding they do you a service: start your own daily groups where you practice and train new players. Do that for a few years (hey I'd settle for even just a month), then come back and judge other players who have been doing that for this amont of time, and longer.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    and for years, players have been running training runs, put up guides, videos, training servers, etc.

    You are focusing on 1 aspect of what experienced players have been vocal about, and ignoring all the rest.

    Yeah, I've heard that before many, many times, and what we see now? These measures were only a band-aid that helped only to prolong the agony. The actual cure, working one, was only in creating a different system that would function by itself and would funnel new players in naturally.

    As for not wanting easy mode raids: the answer is clearly seen with strikes. The development resources devoted to this type of content are to few for multiple difficulties. This has become very evident now, and was a main reason to be against easy mode raids.

    Development resources for raids now are non-existing at all, there is nothing to devote. Something makes me think that back then, when there was an actual raid development team, things were different.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Except that is not what happened.

    What you call unreasonable requirements were requirements in place from a very small subsection of players. The vast majority of players had/have all free for all LFGs up, or used to have.

    What does happen though is: as players, even at release inexperienced players, become more proficient with content, they become more selective and/or drop out of the content (a lot of players play less and less of content the longer it has been out). As such, many players stop running the content, while the more dedicated players become more and more restrictive since clearing the content with the least amount of hassle is of primary concern. A shrinking player base will always happen for content which ages. Meanwhile without new incentives for engaging the content, there is no resurgence in players, and given there has been no new incentives for raids in over a year, do the math (though from reading the forums, there have been some players moving on to raids from strikes, the question is: how many?)

    You can't blame a small fraction of players for a natural progression and content burnout which takes place naturally. Well you can, but it only shows how superficial you are viewing the issue.

    I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state. For years, people were suggesting different measures that would help new players to get more experience and more skill in less difficult raid encounters. And for years people, same people who a still lurking there and on reddit, were yelling "NO, DO NOT WASTE RESOURCES, KEEP MAKING NEW WINGS FOR US, CAZULS GIT GUD MAKE YOUR OWN RAID LUL", were valiantly supporting each other in defending their views before developers, and promptly ignored everything even when it was obvious that situation is deteriorating rapidly. Actually, it is very hilarious to return here after a few years and realize that people like me were actually right. Though, it is not a very satisfying kind of feel.

    That said, what have you personally done to help strikes succeed? Have you been running daily "all welcome" groups? Have you been taking time out of your day/week to train and explain content to new players? It's always easy to judge when all one has to do is look at ones own contribution.

    I did a few. Also, never ever joined a single strike LFG with any kind of LI/KP requirements.

    You do realize that

    a) not everyone was against easymode and similar solutions?
    b) Most people against easymode had a way more nuanced view on the topic you make them out to have.

    On top of that you're thinking in the form of a logical fallacy here. It's not because raids are in a bad position now that they are in that position because their was no easymode. Their are lots of reasons why the player participation went down, most of them had nothing to do with easymode.

    To summarize people like you where not right (at least that's not a conclusion we can draw.)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    and for years, players have been running training runs, put up guides, videos, training servers, etc.

    You are focusing on 1 aspect of what experienced players have been vocal about, and ignoring all the rest.

    Yeah, I've heard that before many, many times, and what we see now? These measures were only a band-aid that helped only to prolong the agony. The actual cure, working one, was only in creating a different system that would function by itself and would funnel new players in naturally.

    Yes, a band-aid provided by players for players. Where were you in all this exactly?

    Also that band-aid was in tune with what made sense from a pure progression perspective. Even now, all strikes do is encourage players to try raid content, which they again access via ALL the methods from the past: trainings guilds, discords, guides, etc.

    That band-aid, was the best approach (and still is) for players to begin successfully raiding, and this was passed down from experienced players to new players. There simply is no content in this game which will magically make you raid ready, the combat system and mechanics are far to complex for that and miles to high compared to the basic nature of open world.

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As for not wanting easy mode raids: the answer is clearly seen with strikes. The development resources devoted to this type of content are to few for multiple difficulties. This has become very evident now, and was a main reason to be against easy mode raids.

    Development resources for raids now are non-existing at all, there is nothing to devote. Something makes me think that back then, when there was an actual raid development team, things were different.

    That is untrue. The raid development resources have been shifted to strikes, and part of the team was even returned to fractals.

    The instanced content team was never big, how successful strikes are will be seen in the future. There was never enough resources for multiple difficulty tiers for raids without neglecting other content. Something which by now should be very clear.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    I can, tho, blame that small fraction of players for being overly loud for years and effectively blocking all possible suggestions about saving their own community from their current sad state.

    You are correct, there have been multiple suggestions to help Raids but they were mostly derailed by the small overly loud part of the forums that was demanding an easy mode instead, preventing most discussions about the actual problems of Raids to flourish. And blocking all good suggestions. But we are here now

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On 1 hand i agree with op, on the other i laugh every Time i See 250 Li strikes. From my experience if u want succesfull strikes, u just need to join lfg with written roles. Even in 250 Li groups there is at least 1 pepega that dies on first boneskinner aoes. There are alway idiots that Will Dodge with his aoe right into u on woj even if he had full hp and wasnt hit by Any1 else. Li requirements doesnt make diffrence here

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    On 1 hand i agree with op, on the other i laugh every Time i See 250 Li strikes. From my experience if u want succesfull strikes, u just need to join lfg with written roles. Even in 250 Li groups there is at least 1 pepega that dies on first boneskinner aoes. There are alway idiots that Will Dodge with his aoe right into u on woj even if he had full hp and wasnt hit by Any1 else. Li requirements doesnt make diffrence here

    Yesterday I decided to join strike LFG with no requirements for my last day of doing strikes every day and finishing up runic armor collection. This is the druid's rotation I got on Fraenir. One of the reasons why I stick to LI groups.

    Gotta say, missing might when being in druid's subgroup is new meta for me.

    It's also the week when everyone else will begin to finish up their collections. With next strike coming in 3 weeks, population will drop even more. If they are not going to introduce new incentive to farm strikes with next release, we will be rolling down the road of raids.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ouch. This is one of the reasons why I stuck with farming Forged Steel over and over weeks ago to complete that collection. As long as people used the tank on the boss, their ability to play their class didn’t matter.

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    From my experience the no-LI groups that yet advertise themselves as exp and tend to ask for specific class roles are usually the ones that get the job done quickest.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2020

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    On 1 hand i agree with op, on the other i laugh every Time i See 250 Li strikes. From my experience if u want succesfull strikes, u just need to join lfg with written roles. Even in 250 Li groups there is at least 1 pepega that dies on first boneskinner aoes. There are alway idiots that Will Dodge with his aoe right into u on woj even if he had full hp and wasnt hit by Any1 else. Li requirements doesnt make diffrence here

    Yesterday I decided to join strike LFG with no requirements for my last day of doing strikes every day and finishing up runic armor collection. This is the druid's rotation I got on Fraenir. One of the reasons why I stick to LI groups.

    Gotta say, missing might when being in druid's subgroup is new meta for me.

    It's also the week when everyone else will begin to finish up their collections. With next strike coming in 3 weeks, population will drop even more. If they are not going to introduce new incentive to farm strikes with next release, we will be rolling down the road of raids.

    last time i had simmilar druid in 250 li group. lets be clear about it, in raids 250 li groups are mostly bad, so its not any indicator of skill.
    strikes are quite ok farm tbf, and can give asc chests (quite expensive tho imo). generally SM hub is great, gives good access to strikes, which now can be done quite fast, regardless of squad skill. It came out in last update, so in future i guess, we will see more updates to it.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You obviously shouldn't bet your life on people not sucking at the game, like ever. But you are still far more likely to run into a Druid like that in an "all welcome" group than you are if you set some requirements.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • CutesySylveon.8290CutesySylveon.8290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

  • CutesySylveon.8290CutesySylveon.8290 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Meanwhile, my more casual raid guild has 5 new people who joined 4-5 weeks ago and have been raiding ever since, currently working on wing 7 after getting every boss at least 1nce killed in Wing 1-4 (mostly to get the collections done at least). Don't assume.

    Everyone can play how he or she wants. If you are more casual and start telling others how to play, you are no better or less toxic than some of those toxic raiders you are referring to.

    I never said people can't play how they want, I've avoided many LFGs because I didn't fit the criteria people wanted and just make my own if need be. Raiders though are, in general, much more toxic than any other aspect of the community and that's saying something when you play PvP/WvW, there's a lot of toxic people there. Got a good raid group you formed? Great, I wish you the best both in completing them and not becoming what that aspect of the game is known for.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Meanwhile, my more casual raid guild has 5 new people who joined 4-5 weeks ago and have been raiding ever since, currently working on wing 7 after getting every boss at least 1nce killed in Wing 1-4 (mostly to get the collections done at least). Don't assume.

    Everyone can play how he or she wants. If you are more casual and start telling others how to play, you are no better or less toxic than some of those toxic raiders you are referring to.

    I never said people can't play how they want, I've avoided many LFGs because I didn't fit the criteria people wanted and just make my own if need be. Raiders though are, in general, much more toxic than any other aspect of the community and that's saying something when you play PvP/WvW, there's a lot of toxic people there. Got a good raid group you formed? Great, I wish you the best both in completing them and not becoming what that aspect of the game is known for.

    Actually the toxicity is mutual in this case, when a certain type of players joined a raid squad with no intention of being cooperative, no preparation for the contents, and wouldn't be bothered for the training, and dragging the success rate down with under performance.

    And also no evidence that this is even true. At best its anecdotal from you and the people you know.

    I can make wild claims about open world toxicity in ab when south cant do basic mechanics. Theres way more people doing ab than raids. Therefore open world is the most toxic. I too can state something as fact with only anecdotal evidence.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Meanwhile, my more casual raid guild has 5 new people who joined 4-5 weeks ago and have been raiding ever since, currently working on wing 7 after getting every boss at least 1nce killed in Wing 1-4 (mostly to get the collections done at least). Don't assume.

    Everyone can play how he or she wants. If you are more casual and start telling others how to play, you are no better or less toxic than some of those toxic raiders you are referring to.

    I never said people can't play how they want, I've avoided many LFGs because I didn't fit the criteria people wanted and just make my own if need be. Raiders though are, in general, much more toxic than any other aspect of the community and that's saying something when you play PvP/WvW, there's a lot of toxic people there. Got a good raid group you formed? Great, I wish you the best both in completing them and not becoming what that aspect of the game is known for.

    Actually the toxicity is mutual in this case, when a certain type of players joined a raid squad with no intention of being cooperative, no preparation for the contents, and wouldn't be bothered for the training, and dragging the success rate down with under performance.

    And also no evidence that this is even true. At best its anecdotal from you and the people you know.

    I can make wild claims about open world toxicity in ab when south cant do basic mechanics. Theres way more people doing ab than raids. Therefore open world is the most toxic. I too can state something as fact with only anecdotal evidence.

    So can be said about these claims about raid community being toxic. But it simply came down to these common aspect that provoke a Commander to pass a kick decision while looking for players.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Honestly in my experience its a lot more comfermation and selection bias though.

    You don't remember all the non toxic people.

    I mean I've met toxic raiders, but also toxic open world players etc. In my experience it just feels way more on the nose in raids because the group is smaller then openworld.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    People asking for LI requirements for Strike Missions are being stupid. This isn't a raid.

    And? You mean they dont know that it isnt raid? How is that relevant to asking for Li? I think it is quite smart when your goal is to play with someone who played decent amout of raids.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Why? Is it toxic when soneone wants to play with players of certain level of skill, they ask for that level of skill, you say you have that and then they see you dont?
    Because that is the most frequent argument I see in raids or strikes. Players that come so others will carry them and then they call others toxic when they dont want to.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Why? Is it toxic when soneone wants to play with players of certain level of skill, they ask for that level of skill, you say you have that and then they see you dont?
    Because that is the most frequent argument I see in raids or strikes. Players that come so others will carry them and then they call others toxic when they dont want to.

    its only toxic when they DON'T ask and start their behaviour where there was no preconditions set. That's the issue , not the straw-man argument about groups that define preconditions for joining a group, which isn't actually an issue at all. This OFTEN happens in pug raids.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Why? Is it toxic when soneone wants to play with players of certain level of skill, they ask for that level of skill, you say you have that and then they see you dont?
    Because that is the most frequent argument I see in raids or strikes. Players that come so others will carry them and then they call others toxic when they dont want to.

    its only toxic when they DON'T ask and start their behaviour where there was no preconditions set. That's the issue , not the straw-man argument about groups that define preconditions for joining a group, which isn't actually an issue at all. This OFTEN happens in pug raids.

    I have ~1500 li and i would guess around double the kills. Like 1/5 of that was with pugs and I never so anything similar to what you are saying. And I mean never. I saw some people that joined and then didnt have what was required and insisted that they do. I saw much more people that joined and apologised that they dont have enough li/kp and 80% of time they were allowed to join. And if not noone was rude.

    I dont know where you these toxic stories come from? I gues NA servers?
    My problem with players is never toxicity. It is just if they are failing too much. So then I leave. Maybe you think this is toxic? I have to say I dont know what toxic means anymore, just like feminism or racism, I think you are searching for something that isnt there

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    People asking for LI requirements for Strike Missions are being stupid. This isn't a raid.

    And? You mean they dont know that it isnt raid? How is that relevant to asking for Li? I think it is quite smart when your goal is to play with someone who played decent amout of raids.

    It's like asking for the army to resolve a domestic dispute.

    You are raising a super high bar and asking for the best of the best, to do content that is really not all that difficult at all. So all you are really doing is excluding players.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Dungeons, strikes, raids - you name it, you literally have no power over me putting whatever I want in the LFG as long as it within the ToS. Every now and then some sad frog joins my squad or whispers me whenever I put up high-req LFG. Getting mad over the fact that I put my own LFG and have people join it anyway, baffles ms. Nobody is forcing You to join it. You can literally make your own LFG with requirements You see fit. If I put 1k LI for raids and have people join it or 250 LI for all strikes run - It's none of your business. Make your own all welcome LFG have fun in the game the way you prefer. Thank you (:

    State of the game in 2020: people actively whisper others to complain that they do not play the game in a specific way.

    and they call raiders toxic...

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    But at the end of the day, If you don't match what a LFG is looking for though just make your own.. it's not hard.

    Exactly.

    Nobody is someone else's performance slave. If a player/commander wants only pink asura with curly hair in his squad, that's his decision. If you don't have a pink asura with curly hair, make your own squad.

    Raiders are toxic though, it's why no one wants to get into raids because of the well earned reputation it has.

    Why? Is it toxic when soneone wants to play with players of certain level of skill, they ask for that level of skill, you say you have that and then they see you dont?
    Because that is the most frequent argument I see in raids or strikes. Players that come so others will carry them and then they call others toxic when they dont want to.

    its only toxic when they DON'T ask and start their behaviour where there was no preconditions set. That's the issue , not the straw-man argument about groups that define preconditions for joining a group, which isn't actually an issue at all. This OFTEN happens in pug raids.

    I have ~1500 li and i would guess around double the kills. Like 1/5 of that was with pugs and I never so anything similar to what you are saying. And I mean never. I saw some people that joined and then didnt have what was required and insisted that they do. I saw much more people that joined and apologised that they dont have enough li/kp and 80% of time they were allowed to join. And if not noone was rude.

    I dont know where you these toxic stories come from? I gues NA servers?
    My problem with players is never toxicity. It is just if they are failing too much. So then I leave. Maybe you think this is toxic? I have to say I dont know what toxic means anymore, just like feminism or racism, I think you are searching for something that isnt there

    Maybe your lucky or maybe you don't see the toxic behaviour because you don't recognise it as being toxic.

    Examples i've seen over the years (only talking about pug fractal and raid runs with no preconditions, i'e a casual run):

    Poor Altruistic Behaviour:
    Reference to someones performance or build negatively (i.e being rude), may include reference to meters
    Leaving early because of wipes because they expect a flawless run
    Trying to rush the run despite of the team wishes
    Impatience with new or poorly performing players, i.e they are not going to become a good player in 1 run regardless of any 'coaching' or bullying
    Calling wipe despite it being obvious the team wants to try and recover.
    Voting to kick someone because of performance.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    Maybe your lucky or maybe you don't see the toxic behaviour because you don't recognise it as being toxic.

    Examples i've seen over the years (only talking about pug fractal and raid runs with no preconditions, i'e a casual run):

    Poor Altruistic Behaviour:
    Reference to someones performance or build negatively (i.e being rude), may include reference to meters
    Leaving early because of wipes because they expect a flawless run
    Trying to rush the run despite of the team wishes
    Impatience with new or poorly performing players, i.e they are not going to become a good player in 1 run regardless of any 'coaching' or bullying
    Calling wipe despite it being obvious the team wants to try and recover.
    Voting to kick someone because of performance.

    I have a fully equipped Shaman Daredevil with perma stealth capability in which I run for off meta builds, and most of the time stays being the only person alive in various team wipes, yet 9 of 10 players of the players displayed displayed Poor Altruistic Behavior even in casual runs, even with low level players in dungeons.

    Therefore all players are toxic.