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Is it viable?

Hello mesmer community, i've been playing my mesmer since i started (i also got a ranger and a necro, both level 80). Got into condi mirage and i really liked it. I've been reading about the profession to make sure that it's the one i want to main and craft ascended gear (going for viper). My question is: Should i start going for chrono instead? Since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read? Should i keep going for the viper gear as it works on both specs? What do you advise me to do in this meta if you were on my position? Thank you so much for your help!

Comments

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    Are you gearing for fractals or for raids?

  • https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-Condi_DPS_Chaos(Fractal) i was aiming for this. In resume i want to know what is the best way to go right now. Where will i be more viable? if i go chrono, can i clean pve content alone?

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    I don’t know of any recent PvE mirage nerfs, the most recent ones only apply to PvP.

    Chaos mirage is outdated by more than a year. It’s been replaced by an Illu variant which shatters much more frequently.

    cMirage and pChrono are kinda level in all kinds of PvE content: both can hold their own well in open world, chrono is weak in fractals so mirage being condi isn’t all that much worse, and chrono has the highest power dmg potential in raids while mirage is meta on many condi based encounters. cChrono is extremely situational and is only recommended in 1-2 raid encounters (where cMirage is still more than acceptable).

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • xort.2093xort.2093 Member
    edited April 19, 2020

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    I don’t know of any recent PvE mirage nerfs, the most recent ones only apply to PvP.

    Chaos mirage is outdated by more than a year. It’s been replaced by an Illu variant which shatters much more frequently.

    cMirage and pChrono are kinda level in all kinds of PvE content: both can hold their own well in open world, chrono is weak in fractals so mirage being condi isn’t all that much worse, and chrono has the highest power dmg potential in raids while mirage is meta on many condi based encounters. cChrono is extremely situational and is only recommended in 1-2 raid encounters (where cMirage is still more than acceptable).

    Hm, i see. What about support chrono, is still demanded in every party?

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @xort.2093 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    I don’t know of any recent PvE mirage nerfs, the most recent ones only apply to PvP.

    Chaos mirage is outdated by more than a year. It’s been replaced by an Illu variant which shatters much more frequently.

    cMirage and pChrono are kinda level in all kinds of PvE content: both can hold their own well in open world, chrono is weak in fractals so mirage being condi isn’t all that much worse, and chrono has the highest power dmg potential in raids while mirage is meta on many condi based encounters. cChrono is extremely situational and is only recommended in 1-2 raid encounters (where cMirage is still more than acceptable).

    Hm, i see. What about support chrono, is still demanded in every party?

    In fractals: not that much, it is outperformed by firebrigade... Still playable but not meta
    In raids: it is good..

    Condi mirage.... Condition damage is irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve with the exception of some specific raid bosses that are only vulnerable to condi damage and how confusion and torment condi works on them, which makes them hard countered by condi mirages (that's where the hype comes from), other than that, you should definitly not go for viper's stats as your 1st set, unless you really want to have something to play vs those bosses and have other classes to play power dps and supports. In open world pve go POWER mirage, in the rest of the game go pChrono, support chrono or whatever that is power.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Condition damage is irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve with the exception of some specific raid bosses... you should definitly not go for viper's stats as your 1st set, unless you really want to have something to play vs those bosses and have other classes to play power dps and supports. In open world pve go POWER mirage, in the rest of the game go pChrono, support chrono or whatever that is power.

    Untrue, condition dmg is not irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve. In the end, the thing you are killing will die and it really doesn't matter if it dies a few seconds more than going power - especially when no one cares in open world, and mesmer power is horribly unsuitable for speed running outside of raids anyway. If it really did matter, you'd be playing CORE instead because it deletes trash faster than pchrono. I don't why you'd suggest pmirage in this context, it's a build that mostly just excels in tagging mobs and looking flashy rather than killing them.

    It doesn't matter if you go for viper's as the first set, you won't die endlessly in PvE content, your dmg isn't much different from your pchrono counterpart because the only time that matters is in speedruns where (maybe outside of a few raid encounters) you wouldn't take pchrono in the first place.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭
    edited April 20, 2020

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Condition damage is irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve with the exception of some specific raid bosses... you should definitly not go for viper's stats as your 1st set, unless you really want to have something to play vs those bosses and have other classes to play power dps and supports. In open world pve go POWER mirage, in the rest of the game go pChrono, support chrono or whatever that is power.

    Untrue, condition dmg is not irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve. In the end, the thing you are killing will die and it really doesn't matter if it dies a few seconds more than going power

    How is that ? What makes someting good or bad in open world is the ability to kill fast and cleave. For me it matters, because I want to get on my mount faster so I am not late from my group.

    • especially when no one cares in open world, and mesmer power is horribly unsuitable for speed running outside of raids anyway.

    You said "speedrunning" not me.

    If it really did matter, you'd be playing CORE instead because it deletes trash faster than pchrono. I don't why you'd suggest pmirage in this context, it's a build that mostly just excels in tagging mobs and looking flashy rather than killing them.

    It is exactly what you need in meta farms: tagging mobs (without killing what ?! trashmobs ?! maybe you are new here or unfamiliar with pmirage, even in t4 fractals it can be very strong if you know how to play pmirage, it is unpopular because there is no"snowcrows" build on that, but definitely shouldn't be underlooked), huge stunbreaks, safety and great mobility. If you want to kill something big by your own (an hp for example) and you are forced to play a mesmer, I'd definitely go pchrono there, but pmirage will do just fine, maybe even better than condimirage. Slow attacking immobile big enemies will just laugh at confusion's and torment's face. Anyway berserker stats will be much more versatile than vipers for 1st ascended set. He can always go some cheap viper exotics it will be totally fine.

    It doesn't matter if you go for viper's as the first set, you won't die endlessly in PvE content, your dmg isn't much different from your pchrono counterpart because the only time that matters is in speedruns where (maybe outside of a few raid encounters) you wouldn't take pchrono in the first place.

    Let's be honest here if you are playing condi mirage in a t4 fractal pug group, Just expect to be kicked lol. The big idea of getting those ascended sets is to put agony resist to be able to do fractals (which are at least somewhat doable with power mesmers), if you are not raiding: going ascended viper set for a mesmer is just lost gold especially for a new player, I am sorry.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Condition damage is irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve with the exception of some specific raid bosses... you should definitly not go for viper's stats as your 1st set, unless you really want to have something to play vs those bosses and have other classes to play power dps and supports. In open world pve go POWER mirage, in the rest of the game go pChrono, support chrono or whatever that is power.

    Untrue, condition dmg is not irrelevant in 95% of cases in pve. In the end, the thing you are killing will die and it really doesn't matter if it dies a few seconds more than going power

    How is that ? What makes someting good or bad in open world is the ability to kill fast and cleave. For me it matters, because I want to get on my mount faster so I am not late from my group.

    So for you it matters. That doesn’t make it irrelevant.

    • especially when no one cares in open world, and mesmer power is horribly unsuitable for speed running outside of raids anyway.

    You said "speedrunning" not me.

    You said 95% cases of PvE. 95% of PvE is doable with condi, 5% isn’t and that would only really be speedrunning.

    If it really did matter, you'd be playing CORE instead because it deletes trash faster than pchrono. I don't why you'd suggest pmirage in this context, it's a build that mostly just excels in tagging mobs and looking flashy rather than killing them.

    It is exactly what you need in meta farms: tagging mobs (without killing what ?! trashmobs ?! maybe you are new here or unfamiliar with pmirage, even in t4 fractals it can be very strong if you know how to play pmirage, it is unpopular because there is no"snowcrows" build on that, but definitely shouldn't be underlooked), huge stunbreaks, safety and great mobility. If you want to kill something big by your own (an hp for example) and you are forced to play a mesmer, I'd definitely go pchrono there, but pmirage will do just fine, maybe even better than condimirage. Slow attacking immobile big enemies will just laugh at confusion's and torment's face. Anyway berserker stats will be much more versatile than vipers for 1st ascended set. He can always go some cheap viper exotics it will be totally fine.

    pMirage on anything but tagging mobs with gs is a meme.

    You talk as though condi mirage completely fails to function when confusion and torment are not getting full benefit. We all know that’s untrue.

    It doesn't matter if you go for viper's as the first set, you won't die endlessly in PvE content, your dmg isn't much different from your pchrono counterpart because the only time that matters is in speedruns where (maybe outside of a few raid encounters) you wouldn't take pchrono in the first place.

    Let's be honest here if you are playing condi mirage in a t4 fractal pug group, Just expect to be kicked lol. The big idea of getting those ascended sets is to put agony resist to be able to do fractals (which are at least somewhat doable with power mesmers), if you are not raiding: going ascended viper set for a mesmer is just lost gold especially for a new player, I am sorry.

    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    ???

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭
    edited April 20, 2020

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    The difference between taking power/support chrono or a condi mirage in a t4 pug is that while power or support chrono (the latter is demanded in pug groups btw) are just not meta (but can be quite strong at experienced hands even in cm groups, if it is not on dT doesn't mean it is unplayable), condi mirage is a troll pick (this one sadly is unplayable in t4s or cms, I have tried it many times, have you ?). Maybe you don't know why, I will explain: back in days trash mobs in fractals had scaling toughness. Tougness counters power builds but doesn't affect condi, back then condi builds were strong... Then they removed the toughness scaling which made power builds meta again, and since then the condi builds are left to dust sadly. The only exceptions are some specific condi supports (even firebrand should ideally be played power today btw).

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    He asked if he should play chrono 1st, and he definitely should, it is much more demanded and more versitile, there is absolutely no reason to get ascended viper gear for him now, he should rather go exotics vipers, try it, compare it to zerk stats, understand why it is irrelevant everywhere on practice, then if he wishes and has some spair gold craft those. I have 5 templates on my mesmer, and as much as I like condi mirage too I hardly ever touch that build template nowdays.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    As I understand he is making his 1st ascended set ever, because he hasn't mained anything yet. And if you are saying to a new player to go viper's ascended set as his 1st ascended set, you are not helping him at all. It is obvious that person asking this is not a veteran with 100 ascended sets and million gold.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    The difference between taking power/support chrono or a condi mirage in a t4 pug is that while power or support chrono (the latter is demanded in pug groups btw) are just not meta (but can be quite strong at experienced hands even in cm groups, if it is not on dT doesn't mean it is unplayable), condi mirage is a troll pick (this one sadly is unplayable in t4s or cms, I have tried it many times, have you ?). Maybe you don't know why, I will explain: back in days trash mobs in fractals had scaling toughness. Tougness counters power builds but doesn't affect condi, back then condi builds were strong... Then they removed the toughness scaling which made power builds meta again, and since then the condi builds are left to dust sadly. The only exceptions are some specific condi supports (even firebrand should ideally be played power today btw).

    The fact that dT completely wiped its existence from their website (didn’t even make to ‘t4 tier’/3 star) is a statement. And it’s not wrong, pchrono cannot keep up with the other specs unless they are bad/pug, or the group is tailored specifically for the pchrono (which makes the group bad).

    I’m sorry but I’m already very updated on how things currently work, thank you very much.

    I’m not saying condi mirage is good in fractals, BUT because pchrono is bad, condi mirage isn’t much worse (and outside of a few select cases where you shouldn’t be playing pchrono if it mattered, it isn’t really).

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    He asked if he should play chrono 1st, and he definitely should, it is much more demanded and more versitile, there is absolutely no reason to get ascended viper gear for him now, he should rather go exotics vipers, try it, compare it to zerk stats, understand why it is irrelevant everywhere on practice, then if he wishes and has some spair gold craft those. I have 5 templates on my mesmer, and as much as I like condi mirage too I hardly ever touch that build template nowdays.

    Followed by, ‘since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read?’

    Stop using irrelevant, condi dmg is. not. irrelevant. If you randomly like but don’t end up using condi mirage, then good for you.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    As I understand he is making his 1st ascended set ever, because he hasn't mained anything yet. And if you are saying to a new player to go viper's ascended set as his 1st ascended set, you are not helping him at all. It is obvious that person asking this is not a veteran with 100 ascended sets and million gold.

    I’m not saying anything but going condi mirage IS FINE, pchrono is a nice addition but ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    The difference between taking power/support chrono or a condi mirage in a t4 pug is that while power or support chrono (the latter is demanded in pug groups btw) are just not meta (but can be quite strong at experienced hands even in cm groups, if it is not on dT doesn't mean it is unplayable), condi mirage is a troll pick (this one sadly is unplayable in t4s or cms, I have tried it many times, have you ?). Maybe you don't know why, I will explain: back in days trash mobs in fractals had scaling toughness. Tougness counters power builds but doesn't affect condi, back then condi builds were strong... Then they removed the toughness scaling which made power builds meta again, and since then the condi builds are left to dust sadly. The only exceptions are some specific condi supports (even firebrand should ideally be played power today btw).

    The fact that dT completely wiped its existence from their website (didn’t even make to ‘t4 tier’/3 star) is a statement. And it’s not wrong, pchrono cannot keep up with the other specs unless they are bad/pug, or the group is tailored specifically for the pchrono (which makes the group bad).

    I’m sorry but I’m already very updated on how things currently work, thank you very much.

    I’m not saying condi mirage is good in fractals, BUT because pchrono is bad, condi mirage isn’t much worse (and outside of a few select cases where you shouldn’t be playing pchrono if it mattered, it isn’t really).

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    He asked if he should play chrono 1st, and he definitely should, it is much more demanded and more versitile, there is absolutely no reason to get ascended viper gear for him now, he should rather go exotics vipers, try it, compare it to zerk stats, understand why it is irrelevant everywhere on practice, then if he wishes and has some spair gold craft those. I have 5 templates on my mesmer, and as much as I like condi mirage too I hardly ever touch that build template nowdays.

    Followed by, ‘since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read?’

    Stop using irrelevant, condi dmg is. not. irrelevant. If you randomly like but don’t end up using condi mirage, then good for you.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    As I understand he is making his 1st ascended set ever, because he hasn't mained anything yet. And if you are saying to a new player to go viper's ascended set as his 1st ascended set, you are not helping him at all. It is obvious that person asking this is not a veteran with 100 ascended sets and million gold.

    I’m not saying anything but going condi mirage IS FINE, pchrono is a nice addition but ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

    I agree with Noodle.

    Also, I suggest NOT listening to Armen when they suggest you could use "exotic Vipers to compare" DONT do this. Viper's exo will cost you as much or more to craft due to oil and other parts, vs crafting the bits to stat change an ascended set to Viper's. If you go Viper's either use a set of stat select able armor or just wait till you can get ascended. In other words, NEVER craft exo viper's, ever. On the other hand you can get a cheap set of Berzerker armor and put infiltrator runes or some other super cheap power runes into it and see if you like power Mes in any form. Weapons I would also get cheap if you want to experiment.

    Another thing to at least consider which ever way you go with mesmer you may want to consider what other light classes you may use the armor for. What I mean is, ascended armor is only account bound so I would also consider if you would want to play scourge or core necro or ele and which set you would use for those. That is, if those matter to you. Ultimatly, Im trying to suggest you at least consider if that will become a factor before you spend allot of gold in hopes that it can help you be happy with your choice.

    Also CMirage will get most of its damage from bleeding last I checked when the target is stationary and doesnt attack quickly.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    The difference between taking power/support chrono or a condi mirage in a t4 pug is that while power or support chrono (the latter is demanded in pug groups btw) are just not meta (but can be quite strong at experienced hands even in cm groups, if it is not on dT doesn't mean it is unplayable), condi mirage is a troll pick (this one sadly is unplayable in t4s or cms, I have tried it many times, have you ?). Maybe you don't know why, I will explain: back in days trash mobs in fractals had scaling toughness. Tougness counters power builds but doesn't affect condi, back then condi builds were strong... Then they removed the toughness scaling which made power builds meta again, and since then the condi builds are left to dust sadly. The only exceptions are some specific condi supports (even firebrand should ideally be played power today btw).

    The fact that dT completely wiped its existence from their website (didn’t even make to ‘t4 tier’/3 star) is a statement. And it’s not wrong, pchrono cannot keep up with the other specs unless they are bad/pug, or the group is tailored specifically for the pchrono (which makes the group bad).

    I’m sorry but I’m already very updated on how things currently work, thank you very much.

    I’m not saying condi mirage is good in fractals, BUT because pchrono is bad, condi mirage isn’t much worse (and outside of a few select cases where you shouldn’t be playing pchrono if it mattered, it isn’t really).

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    He asked if he should play chrono 1st, and he definitely should, it is much more demanded and more versitile, there is absolutely no reason to get ascended viper gear for him now, he should rather go exotics vipers, try it, compare it to zerk stats, understand why it is irrelevant everywhere on practice, then if he wishes and has some spair gold craft those. I have 5 templates on my mesmer, and as much as I like condi mirage too I hardly ever touch that build template nowdays.

    Followed by, ‘since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read?’

    Stop using irrelevant, condi dmg is. not. irrelevant. If you randomly like but don’t end up using condi mirage, then good for you.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    As I understand he is making his 1st ascended set ever, because he hasn't mained anything yet. And if you are saying to a new player to go viper's ascended set as his 1st ascended set, you are not helping him at all. It is obvious that person asking this is not a veteran with 100 ascended sets and million gold.

    I’m not saying anything but going condi mirage IS FINE, pchrono is a nice addition but ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

    I agree with Noodle.

    Also, I suggest NOT listening to Armen when they suggest you could use "exotic Vipers to compare" DONT do this. Viper's exo will cost you as much or more to craft due to oil and other parts, vs crafting the bits to stat change an ascended set to Viper's.

    So you want to say spending 8 gold on exotic is the same as spending 55 gold on an ascended piece ? And btw I have never talked about crafting until now, you can get exotics with preselectable stats as you said. Crafting viper's ascended armor is not cheap at all because of the reason you stated yourself: lost gold on stat change. Even if you craft exotics though, it is still gained money, as ascended viper set doesn't make much sense anyway, it is not a huge damage boost for the price it gives, and you can forget about condi mirage fractals. The only benefit of ascended armor over the exotic is the tiny amount of damage which can only be noticed in long fights in raids and agony resistance slots. I say it again, you will get kicked a lot from fractals so you don't need those slots.

    If you go Viper's either use a set of stat select able armor or just wait till you can get ascended.

    It was what I did when I crafted my viper set long time ago. It is a good idea. Same goes for diviner btw if you ever go support chrono.

    Also CMirage will get most of its damage from bleeding last I checked when the target is stationary and doesnt attack quickly.

    Maybe you should check it again dude, ofc mirage does some serious damage with bleeding, but it is just behind the confusion and torment. I bet even on idle golem you will get like twice more torment than bleeding. Condi mirage is all about confusion and torment nowdays. Bleeding is just a nice addition to all of that.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    Another thing to at least consider which ever way you go with mesmer you may want to consider what other light classes you may use the armor for. What I mean is, ascended armor is only account bound so I would also consider if you would want to play scourge or core necro or ele and which set you would use for those. That is, if those matter to you. Ultimatly, Im trying to suggest you at least consider if that will become a factor before you spend allot of gold in hopes that it can help you be happy with your choice.

    Btw, even here the zerk set wins, while you can change gear between your Power necro, power ele and power mesmer and do perfectly fine, you can't do that easily with light viper's armor... the reason for that is that Cmirage uses Superior Rune of the Nightmare (pain to get btw) while others use more standart runes. Meanwhile zerk armor with schorlar runes works perfectly fine everywhere !!!

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    Saying that gearing cmirage is a waste of time/money is the same as saying gearing pchrono is also waste of time/money. You can also do whatever pchrono stuff in exotics (it only needs ONE ascended sword) outside of fractals because it’s not good in fractals either. In the end, it really doesn’t matter.

    It’s not like we’ve all haven’t wasted time/money on something. And sometimes they aren’t such a waste after all (OP may eventually gear a condi mirage regardless). OP can do whatever OP wants.

    By this context, OP should just ignore mesmer and gear his ranger into a pSlb because that’s better than all the options mentioned here for the purpose of fractals and aGoNy ReSiStAnCe.

    But ofc that’s not the point of this thread, is it?

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    By extension then, if you simply play mesmer in a t4 pug group you should be kicked (it’s trash, even dT wiped it from their website). And here you suggested pmirage at t4?

    The difference between taking power/support chrono or a condi mirage in a t4 pug is that while power or support chrono (the latter is demanded in pug groups btw) are just not meta (but can be quite strong at experienced hands even in cm groups, if it is not on dT doesn't mean it is unplayable), condi mirage is a troll pick (this one sadly is unplayable in t4s or cms, I have tried it many times, have you ?). Maybe you don't know why, I will explain: back in days trash mobs in fractals had scaling toughness. Tougness counters power builds but doesn't affect condi, back then condi builds were strong... Then they removed the toughness scaling which made power builds meta again, and since then the condi builds are left to dust sadly. The only exceptions are some specific condi supports (even firebrand should ideally be played power today btw).

    The fact that dT completely wiped its existence from their website (didn’t even make to ‘t4 tier’/3 star) is a statement. And it’s not wrong, pchrono cannot keep up with the other specs unless they are bad/pug, or the group is tailored specifically for the pchrono (which makes the group bad).

    I’m sorry but I’m already very updated on how things currently work, thank you very much.

    I’m not saying condi mirage is good in fractals, BUT because pchrono is bad, condi mirage isn’t much worse (and outside of a few select cases where you shouldn’t be playing pchrono if it mattered, it isn’t really).

    OP said he enjoyed playing condi mirage, so I won’t put down what he likes playing because it’s fine under all reasonable circumstances.

    He asked if he should play chrono 1st, and he definitely should, it is much more demanded and more versitile, there is absolutely no reason to get ascended viper gear for him now, he should rather go exotics vipers, try it, compare it to zerk stats, understand why it is irrelevant everywhere on practice, then if he wishes and has some spair gold craft those. I have 5 templates on my mesmer, and as much as I like condi mirage too I hardly ever touch that build template nowdays.

    Followed by, ‘since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read?’

    Stop using irrelevant, condi dmg is. not. irrelevant. If you randomly like but don’t end up using condi mirage, then good for you.

    OP also said they had other classes at the back, so frankly this isn’t ‘their first set’.

    As I understand he is making his 1st ascended set ever, because he hasn't mained anything yet. And if you are saying to a new player to go viper's ascended set as his 1st ascended set, you are not helping him at all. It is obvious that person asking this is not a veteran with 100 ascended sets and million gold.

    I’m not saying anything but going condi mirage IS FINE, pchrono is a nice addition but ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.

    I agree with Noodle.

    Also, I suggest NOT listening to Armen when they suggest you could use "exotic Vipers to compare" DONT do this. Viper's exo will cost you as much or more to craft due to oil and other parts, vs crafting the bits to stat change an ascended set to Viper's.

    So you want to say spending 8 gold on exotic is the same as spending 55 gold on an ascended piece ? And btw I have never talked about crafting until now, you can get exotics with preselectable stats as you said. Crafting viper's ascended armor is not cheap at all because of the reason you stated yourself: lost gold on stat change. Even if you craft exotics though, it is still gained money, as ascended viper set doesn't make much sense anyway, it is not a huge damage boost for the price it gives, and you can forget about condi mirage fractals. The only benefit of ascended armor over the exotic is the tiny amount of damage which can only be noticed in long fights in raids and agony resistance slots. I say it again, you will get kicked a lot from fractals so you don't need those slots.

    If you go Viper's either use a set of stat select able armor or just wait till you can get ascended.

    It was what I did when I crafted my viper set long time ago. It is a good idea. Same goes for diviner btw if you ever go support chrono.

    Also CMirage will get most of its damage from bleeding last I checked when the target is stationary and doesnt attack quickly.

    Maybe you should check it again dude, ofc mirage does some serious damage with bleeding, but it is just behind the confusion and torment. I bet even on idle golem you will get like twice more torment than bleeding. Condi mirage is all about confusion and torment nowdays. Bleeding is just a nice addition to all of that.

    Just to clarify why I wouldnt suggest crafting Viper's Exotic is the that its very expensive exotic armor. Lets assume 8g per to craft Viper's compared to buying workable basic exo 40s-1g per or using stat selectable armor if are able to get (not that complicated but not instant). That is like 8x as much as just buying a carrion, rabit, etc set to just try condi with. Basically, you would be looking at spending about 50g to "try viper's with exotic" plus another 50g in recipes. However, its only like 5g each to make Viper's insignia to stat change existing ascended armor to Viper's compared to 30g per ascended insignia to craft Viper's. Do your own research, but keep iun mind Im very experienced and am only trying to help you be informed.

    https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-76115
    https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-76244

    Then since you said you are looking to gear up with Ascended, I am aware that the cost of making an ascended inscriptions, etc are also expensive and at that level the Viper's Insignia/inscriptions you would use for crafting or stat conversion become more comparable in price. The big expense with crafting Viper's as exo is that it uses special oiled leather that is very expensive to make and isnt used for ascended. Additionally, you can obtain your ascended in any stat and change to which ever stats you like. You can also change the stats again later( but you lose the runes and infusions without upgrade extractors).

    I was just trying to let you know which options you have and make sure you understood it would be fairly cost prohibitive to craft Viper's as exotic armor and its not something most experienced players would ever suggest. Its not practical. That said, you are obviously welcome to make what ever choices you wish.

    Basically, if you want to experiment with sets on the cheap I would look for sets off the TP that will work. You can get many full sets of Berserker, Carrion, Rabbid, Rampagers, etc on the TP for about 4-6g for an entire set of armor. Granted its not Viper's but you can get a good idea on how condi vs power compares and see how each feels.

    Also ranger is fun and necro too. If you like playing the necro AND mesmer allot you could always do a light set and pick a set you like on both. Again it could really be power or condi depending what you want to run. Good luck on your Journey.

  • Vincenzo.3145Vincenzo.3145 Member ✭✭✭

    @xort.2093 said:
    Hello mesmer community, i've been playing my mesmer since i started (i also got a ranger and a necro, both level 80). Got into condi mirage and i really liked it. I've been reading about the profession to make sure that it's the one i want to main and craft ascended gear (going for viper). My question is: Should i start going for chrono instead? Since condi mirage was so nerfed as i read? Should i keep going for the viper gear as it works on both specs? What do you advise me to do in this meta if you were on my position? Thank you so much for your help!

    If you think condi mirage got nerfed and are asking about Chrono... my friend... you have no idea the tragedy that has befallen. Save yourself. Go Necro. And don't look back. Anet has demonstrated again and again and it is without a doubt clear that they are prejudiced against Mesmers, notably Chronos. Necro was bullied again and again but survived countless nerfs. Anet wants Mesmer buried. They don't want anyone to play it. Anytime they become relevant or good at something, they put them back down and show them their place.