PvP is a circle of mess.

first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

whats a proto

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:whats a proto

prot holo :p

That's a derisive descriptin of the game and what makes the mentioned builds viable. Where's the mess?

@GewRoo.4172 said:That's a derisive descriptin of the game and what makes the mentioned builds viable. Where's the mess?

my badit's about how unhealthly these builds' play style are and how little effort is put in them to be effective, for the new players out there.every time the forum complain about anything, it's never about how good it is, but always about how less effort it takes to achieve it's effectiveness

Have you tried killing the DPS ranger pets?

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Have you tried killing the DPS ranger pets?

yeah, they pulled it back or swapped:

so do you dodge/block the tiger or do you focus it and eat the damage? Either way you've blown your dps/defensive cds while the only thing the ranger has done is press 1

also lol @ dps pets. All ranger pets are dps pets because they all hit harder than a dps specced player. smokescale still has a 2.0+ power coefficient on everything, including its CC. Here i thought 2.0 was supposed to be on only the hardest hitting skills in the game instead of on every pet attack.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Have you tried killing the DPS ranger pets?

I already responded in your other thread about what you could have done better here. This is a match up you can win! Good luck!

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

+10

well said.

(just yesterday as we were playing a competitive PvP match in ESO, a new player asked us Guild Wars 2 veterans for a cheese build for warrior class? We were not expecting it and had caught us off guard. I asked the new player, why not learn the ropes of Warrior Profession and come out with your own build? this new player>she stated that, i heard that the Guild Wars 2 balance was a mess and don't bother with the builds...just copy+paste the broken builds for the classes you want to play'

That really made me feel bad obviously, not sad at all. I felt bad for the new player and for other new players who are told to take the Toxic way out because, words of mouth says so.

Well few minutes ago, she told the guild members that she was having a lot of fun and that she did not know what she was doing but was playing exactly the way the warrior Profession player was playing the build in Youtube.

So yeah!, its never a good thing for a new player to come to the game to take advantage of its broken Toxic mess to get what they want and to leave thereafter.

Example: it is like a changing machine giving you more cash in return for each $1 dollar bill until you get what you want than leave in fear of being caught

Not too long ago, about 2 months ago, we had a new Thief Profession player who was using stealth with portal, told us in guild chat that she felt like a cheater. The Guild Leader asked her, why do you say that? She said that, in other games, that would be reported as hacking and using exploit tools. The Guild Leader asked her, are you using cheat, exploit and hack programs? she replied, Hell No!! Than Guild Leader and others in the chat told her that, than you are not doing anything wrong, it is intend to be this way...you are fine'

Than later she Pm a player and me in the chat and said that she was going to take a break. They told me that she never logged back until the next day and asked her if she was ok, she replied, this is new to me and wrote down /sad.

Lasty, this new players said that, she will get all Legendaries for Warrior and find the cheap way to make gold, buy everything for her warrior than leave.

Cheap right? Well it how once again, how the status of the game feel like....just copy+paste the cheap, no class and no standards to learn how the Profession plays like and to abuse the hell out of it until you get what you want then leave and return to the next cheap treat.

As a Guild Wars 2 Veteran including us two other Veterans, we were left in heartbrokenness and shocked. We just didn't have any more words of encrouragement for the new player. There was nothing that we could not do to hide the mess from her . What she saw is what we all have been seeing for 8 years

It is not a good feeling but at the same time, when the game state of being and its state of balance want to treat itself this way, there is nothing that we can do to change it. The only one who can change how PvP and WvW represents itself as is Anet

As the Op state, A Circle of Mess

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

there is a broken war build?

can you link pl0x

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

No!, this thread is not about Warrior Profession, it is about the state of the game/(pvp) being a mess

I agree, there is no balance, meta builds atm are just outliners that were nerfed the least. Good indicator of what needs to be nerfed next :)

PVP in this game is a joke. Just a repeated joke for years so the punchline got old. They tried to tell a new joke in October of 2019 with the addition of CMC's revamped PVP balance team that can implement changes without the PVE team.

And nothing changed.

It has been 6 months and nothing is different, still a huge mess.

@Kickpuncher.8109 said:PVP in this game is a joke. Just a repeated joke for years so the punchline got old. They tried to tell a new joke in October of 2019 with the addition of CMC's revamped PVP balance team that can implement changes without the PVE team.

And nothing changed.

It has been 6 months and nothing is different, still a huge mess.

Did you play the game?

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

PvE isn't much different in this regard players doing absurd shortcuts in the fractals in other games you get banned for them. The other problems is players knowing this game too well which result in using too many tricks used in builds and preparation . The cherry on top is Arena.NET encourage this often like you said with e.g the thief portal. I read a while ago an article how supporting elitists from the MMO publisher side destroyed many of them or pressed a lot of the player base out of the game.

I can only agree with this sure I can understand that we all got educated to be a part of a meritocracy but this isn't what the majority of the players looking for . Having so many 'cheats' is very beginner unfriendly and let often to toxic behaviour because people don't know what they want.(edit : to be clear they don't know what the expert or pro gamers wants because they don't know their tricks) In a sandbox game with not too many players this works well because people can decide in which pace/way they 'progress' but having an MMORPG with a lot of gamers letting the 1% of the players dictate(indirectly) the pace is bound to cause a lot of trouble. Basically the publisher has too push a bit against it but since the end of 2018 I have the feeling they making it more worse then good by not making things simpler but even more difficult for the players e.g

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

Okay that was a bit sarcastic D

What I also can add to this is the reason why many Asia Grinder fail in the west is this and the p2w concept which basically filter out 99% of the players. In the end its all about getting players play together and not grief them or doing fanservice for the 1% of the so called pro gamers.

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

This is not pve

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

well I generalized over all game modes

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

Gj but senseless

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

Lord of the Fire was not senseless at all

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

+1

i agree with you. This is why i constantly calling out for root cause problems to be addressed first than Anet 'pumping out the next upgrade' Many of us are against Anet of not releasing any new specialized without addressing the the main Profession first.

Having us to leave the knowledge of our main behind in favor of the next new big upgrade specialization resulting in new players to not know or learn what the core root Profession does. Throughout the years, what i've clearly noticed, when a new player play suddenly encounter an enemy main Profession Player, they are left with confusion and would 'blank out' as to not know what to do to defeat the main Profession Player.

I've seen witnessed many of them just standing there in state of shock and being scared at the same time. That experience was new to them because all they know is to copy+paste the 5 star Meta and there.....easy, better

its a shame

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

• nerf SoI of Chrono so we have to lern new classes and new rota and leave our mains char behind.(at least for fractals)
• nerf Stab weaver so we have to switch to swordweaver getting constantly cc and die and also learn a new rota. I doesn't looks like it took months to learn to staff weaver rota to that level
• ah let have the thief a portal we surely have a zerg in every garni if he/she hides there and surely nobody will find a glitch to come into the garni
• nerf quickness up time of the FB surely sacrificing stabi for quickness will be not important
• nerf stabi from fb surly we don't have a game breaking amount of cc in all game modes
• I'm also not a fan of the wvw mount nerf because it really did make the game easier and more accessible.

I don't have anything against the elite specialisation but I agree that besides warrior and guardian the balance between without and PoF, Hot is not really good. For Elementalist I did make a post about how to correct this to some degree for dps by moving the crit rate increase into core(so all have the same base crit rate) from weaver and change the trait to water dmg increase which gives staff weaver a bit of a better burst without increase the overall dmg. There are also other balance problems I recently looked into what rune options you have as a healer well not much monk for pure healing and the water for boon duration + condi clean.

Reason is not the max 10% healing from the monk rune for each boon you give , Its that the monk and water have 10% extra heal while to others have 125 static heal which should be 150 =~10% heal . Well this is not much but people counting even the small things.( I would suggest replace both static with 150 this shoots a lot of problems down)

The other things is how each heal build gives unique offensive boons ranger, warrior , revenant have traits for that guardian has a passive elite and elementist has a near useless skill because you need to activate it and has a high CD. Somehow this should be more streamlined.

The point is you know the balance is really good when the choice is really though.

Well.. yeah. How else are they going to sell expansions?

In order to make something fun to play and to let newcomers hop in and not feel completely underpowered, there needs to be some.. cheese.

The veterans learned to adapt to it, but for alot of the current playerbase this is all they have known - fighting cheese with cheese.

And naturally people flock to the most fun/effective because we like to win! Nothing wrong with that. It's just become more about being effective than having fun is all.

It's completely natural as population shrinks, the competition sharpens and we lose more and more outliers in the meta. The real problem is we have professions who do things too well, where they outshine other options or allow them to perform exemplary in several capacities instead of a select few.

Every profession had weaknesses and hard counters regardless of build back in the core days. This allowed for many possible counterpicks and therefore role diversity. With elite specs patcging up every hole in a professions armor, this is no longer the case and you can only fight fire.. I'm sorry "cheese".. with cheese.

@Lighter.5631 said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

That's a good summarize of the state of PvP but guess what ? Nothing will change for years, like always

@"Lighter.5631" said:first theres:Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not dienecro face tanks everythingrev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

then there'sdaredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the worldele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

where's the next balance info, i'm interested

Agreed. This meta is garbage. Seeing the same people over and over again in matches tells me that quite a large number of people have just moved on from the game mode.

I can still do good damage on my power mirage, but I'm too glassy to get heavily involved in any fights and dueling is sometimes pointless given the build the other person is running. Power rev is really the only thing that has the sustain and the damage to be useful anymore.

There are entirely too many bunker builds able to put out just as much damage as someone intentionally focusing on damage. There are also entirely too many cheesy cc spamming builds.

At mid you have a fear spam necro, a cc spamming firebrand, and a cc spam ele. Then on the side nodes you've got a some prot holo running thumper turret and a ranger with a pet knocking you down and a ranger bashing you or knocking you back with longbow.. or immobalize and knockdown/daze spamming you on a condi build.

Or, and you don't see this very often because it doesn't seem incredibly viable, you get some hammer wielding warrior that can somehow keep you knocked down/stunned for the entire duration of the fight back to back, then full-counter dazing you the second you get a moment to attack.

Idk. It's just all bad. I really don't even have suggestions at this point. I don't think the balance team has a clue either. I'm guessing that's what they were aiming for with the sweeping damage coefficient changes. But now they're probably scratching their heads wondering what to do now that they still have outliers and even if they didn't would actually have to focus on balancing class mechanics and traits. Given that, it's really a toss up as to whether or not their "fix" will actually be for the better or completely negate the relevancy of the spec. They've pretty much deleted scourge and chrono, almost deleted mirage, and I don't think I've seen a scrapper in months.

Best thing to do is just to play what you want and wait for it to cycle to the top of the list of broken specs after a few balance patches seeing as they seem to just draw weapon skills and traits out of a hat. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, and I'm about 90% salt at this point, but this season has definitely been the worst for me in a long time with a seemingly minuscule population.

Well CMC and the ANET PVP BALANCE TEAM have has the ability to change numbers separately from the pve team for 6 months now and nothing has really changed.... this game is hopelessly stuck in an endless cycle of poor decisions.