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Fractal CMs on Weekends...

Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

Joined 3 groups yesterday. All of them were previously set up in LFG with around 100-150 KP requirement.
Turned out all of them were fake.
One dude died on every boss encounter within the first 5 seconds.
In another group noone was doing CC except me.
There also was a guy who kept killing us with his red skull, because he simply didn't understand what to do.

How annoying is that...!? I don't want to be a crybaby but it's grinding my gears losing so much time due to people like that.

One group even kicked me after I called them out, saying that "I should be careful with what I say".
lol?

So is it just me or is it a real pain in the A to find a real group for Fractal CM on weekends?

<1

Comments

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    Turned out all of them were fake.

    u can use https://killproof.me on group creation to prevent any fake kp. It will be longer, but if u during that open map or etc this "longer" is nor matter.

    One dude died on every boss encounter within the first 5 seconds.

    kick or leave. Normal players not stay in this group and don't see reason make second try.

    In another group noone was doing CC except me.

    hope u not bs or ala xD also good rule is bs not have 2 mace on swap do insta kick

    to find a real group for Fractal CM on weekends?

    it is easy. but don't join in new non skilled group with low KP requirement. 100 is very low now. 250 is minimal, 500-750 is normal.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Very often the groups with the large kp requirements are made from ppl that dont meet said reqs but do so to bait in good players for an easy carry.

    This also extends to raids, strikes and dungeons back when ap was the kitten resource.

    The ideal way to play is to look for a group to do them consistently. There should be some discords or guilds available.

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    ^ All that zealex said; plus, sometimes huge kp requirement is just a troll group. It's rare but it happens at times when people are bored.
    So just make your own group and require certain classes, as well as exp, food, pots. I barely have any amount of kp require and I find that those are one of the best groups I've had doing CMs.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What I've found is: once you reach 250+ KP, even if there is 1 player who faked his KP yet brings poor performance, that players gets either removed from group or I leave, but I rarely run PUG CM groups currently thanks to a lot of guildies who also run CMs+T$, and I have yet to leave a group due to 1 person. I have left groups with fake KP requirements, probably around 4-5 in the last 6 months (again mostly due to not running with PUGs that much atm).

    Everything sub 250 KP works as follows:
    Most groups "round up" their KP. For example: If the average group KP is 50, if they will look for 75 or 100 KP. This will almost always be the case if the Firebrigade combo is of the same guild or searching together.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guilds requiring 200kp+ while max one of them has the amount is the norm.
    Pug revs, hfb are most of the time useless leeches. Dhs very rarely know how to play. How often do you see a rev doing more than 5-6k dps? usually they autoattack only.
    Its not only on weekends but lots of players returned due to corona and it did horrible things to pugs.
    Even had a fractal god scourge disguised as reaper only to swap to scourge after one boss in a 250kp group.

    My worst experiences were reset fractals. the worst ones are high kp + hfb. avoid those.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    How often do you see a rev doing more than 5-6k dps? usually they autoattack only.

    the proper rotation for rev
    main priority - f4
    f2 (if fb slack might),
    sword 2 (if party have reapers)
    keep elite
    and press 1 1 1 1 ONLY . Anything else is fail.
    not people a skilled enough to understand that. Read guides!

    Even had a fractal god scourge disguised as reaper only to swap to scourge after one boss in a 250kp group.

    this is proper in good choose. Read guides again!

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    ....

    Please tell me you are trolling.

    The proper rotation for rev includes sword 2,4,5 and icerazors ire and citadel bombardment all while providing alacrity and might. qfb cant give 25 might on its own, only hfb can.
    Kalla elite is not a dps tool. its sustain and heal which is already covered when you play with a hfb.
    Show me the guide that tells me to aa and elite only.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    The proper rotation for rev includes sword 2,4,5 and icerazors ire and citadel bombardment all while providing alacrity and might.

    no. 1 1 1 is proper.

    qfb cant give 25 might on its own, only hfb can.

    read 'if fb slack'. Also no one can grantee how random hfb, or qfb, or hybride, will stack might. More better not think but check - If not enough press f2, if 25 - not press.

    Show me the guide that tells me to aa and elite only.

    I am a guide.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    The proper rotation for rev includes sword 2,4,5 and icerazors ire and citadel bombardment all while providing alacrity and might.

    no. 1 1 1 is proper.

    qfb cant give 25 might on its own, only hfb can.

    read 'if fb slack'. Also no one can grantee how random hfb, or qfb, or hybride, will stack might. More better not think but check - If not enough press f2, if 25 - not press.

    Show me the guide that tells me to aa and elite only.

    I am a guide.

    I think both of you are talking about different renegades in fractals.

    Your rotation lare is basically the pleb rotation for people who barely understand their class or just want to somehow get through CMs and T4s. Nephalem's rotation is basically what a renegade can do if he is actually good at the game.

    If you take a renegade only for boon remove and alacrity, yes just auto 1. Works fine for every group.

    If you actually want to play the class properly, you will try to squeeze as much damage as possible from that group slot.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    ofc I don not see any criminal, if on non-renegate stance before swap to main stance you eat energy and spam some sword 2 4 5 skills.
    But main rotation on main stance is 111111111

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    ofc I don not see any criminal, if on non-renegate stance before swap to main stance you eat energy and spam some sword 2 4 5 skills.
    But main rotation on main stance is 111111111

    That's nonsense. What are you using the energy on Kalla exactly for? Soulcleave's Summit? Only needed in specific situations and not at all when a heal fb is present.

    The main skills you use on Kalla are Icerazor's Ire for damage and Darkrazor's Daring for cc and stab. Otherwise you use Orders from Above for alacrity, Heroic Command for might (in case of no heal fb) and Citadel Bombardment for damage combined with weapon skills.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/revenant/hybrid-renegade
    Has a precise guide on how Alaren should be played ideally in 99CM and 100CM. Notice they only use Soulcleave's Summit on boss phases where damage is unavoidable or avoiding the damage would mean a huge uptime loss. That is without a heal Firebrand present. Suffice to say, if a heal fb is present, Soulcleave's Summit does not need to get used at all, ever.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    ofc I don not see any criminal, if on non-renegate stance before swap to main stance you eat energy and spam some sword 2 4 5 skills.
    But main rotation on main stance is 111111111

    No it is not. You try to burst into breakbars with icerazor, shiro and citadel while trying to keep scholar with kalla elite. sometimes this means you can go full ham and sometimes you need high kalla uptime.
    I had a lot of fiesta runs where the ren did more damage than multiple dps players. Ren is one of the harder classes to play properly in fractals since you have to adjust rotation all the time to group dps.
    True you can 1111 all the time but thats true for all classes. a good ren can do so much more than f4, f2 and elite. Kalla elite is not the op super tool, it is indeed very good but high uptime isnt #1 priority. Having it up at right moments is much more valuable.

  • You dont wanna use the raid rotation in fractals which is this AA-spamming on Kalla and its completely depending on your group.
    Do you run without healer and you need to keep scholar up? There are 2 possibilities:

    • Your group is fast: Youre using youre strongest skills to do as much DPS as possible to shorten the phase to a minimum. Kill it before it applies damage to you
    • Your group is not fast: you might upkeep kalla from time to time by playing more supportive

    Rev doesnt only have one playstyle

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That's nonsense. What are you using the energy on Kalla exactly for? Soulcleave's Summit?

    ofc.

    Only needed in specific situations and not at all when a heal fb is present.

    welcome in real world, where hfb can't keep 25 might, can't make good heal and don't know about stability. For skilled h/fb u should ask 2k KP.

    yes, it is perfect biuld and guide for ideal world. up !

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Kalla elite is not the op super tool, it is indeed very good but high uptime isnt #1 priority. Having it up at right moments is much more valuable.

    mostly in 95+% this is only one way to keep hp for scholar 's pdps. Any sword 245 will increase your dps and lose total. Trust me.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That's nonsense. What are you using the energy on Kalla exactly for? Soulcleave's Summit?

    ofc.

    Only needed in specific situations and not at all when a heal fb is present.

    welcome in real world, where hfb can't keep 25 might, can't make good heal and don't know about stability. For skilled h/fb u should ask 2k KP.

    yes, it is perfect biuld and guide for ideal world. up !

    I'm sorry, not all of us play with 3 healers and low skill groups in T4 fractals.

    You gave advice on how to play a class. That advice was trash, deal with it. If your goal post is to full-fill the bare minimum on alaren, then yes, giving alacrity and boon stripping while doing 3k dps will work. The class can do a lot more though, and good advice should reflect that.

    Nobody says you have to do 15k dps on alaren, which top end groups do btw, but neither is accepting low tier performance or giving advice around that.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I'm sorry, not all of us play with 3 healers and low skill groups in T4 fractals.

    3 healers setup you mostly need only in common** non cms group**, wiht people who don't want do mechanic, they mostly just stand. cms people sometime move and do dodge, so 1 hfb and nurse suncleave alac is enough.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If your pugs are that potato, I would forego that healing and drop a feast of Fire Salsa, since they'll probably be downed most of the time anyways-- tell them to use necros for extra OP effect.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That's nonsense. What are you using the energy on Kalla exactly for? Soulcleave's Summit?

    ofc.

    Only needed in specific situations and not at all when a heal fb is present.

    welcome in real world, where hfb can't keep 25 might, can't make good heal and don't know about stability. For skilled h/fb u should ask 2k KP.

    yes, it is perfect biuld and guide for ideal world. up !

    actually site u posted has updated guide for 99 and 100 bosses. it no longer has false guide of 111 and ss ftw, which made this false assumption that ppl like u still keep. Basic rule of fractals: cc bar is broken, u deal as much dmg as u can. check this effect: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exposed_(effect)
    On the other side i dont want to say ss is useless. as i was comparing logs soulcealve summit on skorvlad p2 and p3 deals around the same dmg as impossible odds. it comes from the fact that everyone was using whole burst, and many procs occured(also rene using his skills ofc). which means that full party burst on non exposed boss is definitly worth it to have SS up, but only if rev is also pressing more buttons than "111", so if he has more than 50 base energy.
    Here u can check log of last sN enso kill. https://dps.report/BAEr-20200409-144821_enso If u see graph of p1, u can see rene peaked at 117k dps. he didnt just aa.
    Exposed is broken and you should abuse it as much as possible.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    discretize.eu update site ?? fun

    very interesting bs. non common aa/at

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @lare.5129 said:

    to find a real group for Fractal CM on weekends?

    it is easy. but don't join in new non skilled group with low KP requirement. 100 is very low now. 250 is minimal, 500-750 is normal.

    what

    I realize I've been doing most of my CM's with friends lately but 500-750??? lulz

  • Memoranda.9386Memoranda.9386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @Bridget Morrigan.1752 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    to find a real group for Fractal CM on weekends?

    it is easy. but don't join in new non skilled group with low KP requirement. 100 is very low now. 250 is minimal, 500-750 is normal.

    what

    I realize I've been doing most of my CM's with friends lately but 500-750??? lulz

    Right? I literally have never seen a CM LFG with more than 150. Assuming you average 6 (2 per encounter, which is extremely generous) ESS per run, that's nearly a month of CMs to get efficient. Most decent players are going to be running them smoothly inside a week or two.

    At 500 ESS, you're looking at 3 months of CM experience. Who would waste 2 inventory slots?

    As an aside: every CM LFG group I have joined has never once asked for ESS links in chat, no matter how much the amount was.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bridget Morrigan.1752 said:
    I realize I've been doing most of my CM's with friends lately but 500-750??? lulz

    no one say what you can't do that wiht your friends. I say that 150kp absolutely not guarantee chill run, and this is ok. And 50kp party few years ago was more and more skilled than now 150kp.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    ur pressing 111 on rene, so nobody belives in ur ability to recognise skilled group.
    @Memoranda.9386 u get 1-3 essences for arkk always, and very small chance to drop from skorvald/artsa. so u should count 2 per day. so 500 would be more than
    half a year

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    ur pressing 111 on rene

    it depend from group, instabilities, and fb, sometimes is should be always 11111 and other press is show what ppl not understand who and what.

    so I don't belive

    I am expert on practices. Show more kp than me and we continue that talk.
    Now you looks non exp player, who try without proof say valued words.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    I am expert on practices. Show more kp than me and we continue that talk.
    Now you looks non exp player, who try without proof say valued words.

    That just sounds arrogant sorry but I'm sure most of the people arguing against you have 1k+ kp. Some even 2k if this even matters.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well you think rene should only Press 111, fb should do might, playing scourge is ok (i wonder which guide said its good), you see a diffrence between qfb and hybrid firebrand, and now u try to measure Any1's skill by amount of kp. It kinda tells enough about what kind of player are you.
    Plz stop Going stubborn against 4 other PPL that try to explain you rene is more than f4 and ss bot

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • robertul.3679robertul.3679 Member
    edited April 25, 2020

    @lare.5129 please do post a screenshot of your kp, genuinely curious

    or better yet, an api link/killproof.me for them

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    but I'm sure most of the people arguing against

    I ask not "most of people". I ask you. Because now looks what yo try hide you opinion on "some people". Don't try fade in "some people".

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Well you think rene should only Press 111, fb should do might, playing scourge is ok (i wonder which guide said its good)

    it was https://discretize.eu/ 4-6 months ago. Now they update web side, change meta, remove dps guard from meta, and update descriptions.

    you see a diffrence between qfb and hybrid firebrand, and now u try to measure

    I take only fat hfb for cms+t4. So I don't have plans to see that difference.

    Plz stop Going stubborn against 4 other PPL

    I say my opinion. If someone, on many think another - this is absolutely not problem. How we can measure who say truth ?
    For me chill run and completed is biger value, than toxic pressure and 15% less compete time. Someone think another. I don't say "don't do". I say how like I and some people on my friendlist.
    Same whit strike. Very parallel example to keep qfb vision: from start I take 2 Hfb, druid, Hscourge, Halacren. Yes, 5 supports. And 5 dps. Last few rans ask 20kp/li. Start form bony. Result - all strikes runs fine. Some people take 2-3 supp, get pressure, more toxic, for same result.

    try to explain you rene is more than f4 and ss bot

    I try explain that people have different vision, and have good result too.
    Inside my guild people on weekend go whit setup druid and 4 scourge still valid, also still valid setup hsg or dudu with chrno + 3 dps setup .. and etc. cms done ? done. So why why should say "oh, no - it is wrong".

    @robertul.3679 said:
    @lare.5129 please do post a screenshot of your kp, genuinely curious

    you can find me on https://killproof.me and satisfy genuinely curious

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    The whole KP experience is a completely unnecessary road to toxic nowhere. So much hassle for no real reliable enhancement to party performance. It increases wait times for parties and encourages people to lie, which bogs down everything.

    The best groups I've been in, including the recent static guild I run with at resets, literally never once asked each other to ping KPs. We just noticed over the course of time of bumping into each other that, "certain guys know what they're doing, and others don't". And this was mostly through LFGs labeled "CMs/T4s/Recs HB/Alac/DPS" with no requirement for any KP or LNHB check.

    In fact, we are only a static group of 3 players, not even a full team. We just start the group with HB/Ren/Some DPS, and then post in LFG: "CMs T4s Recs bring DPS" and we carry literally anyone who joins, without asking any questions. And if we see someone is struggling, we take 2 minutes to explain mechanics to them. Not once have we failed to correctly teach a player how to run 99 100 CMs. And by the end of such experiences, which only take maybe +10 minutes from an elite crew clear time mind you, the nightly run actually ends very positively with people saying things like: "Thanks guys. I actually understand how to run this now." and this often results in making a friend or two. <- This is a very refreshing experience compared to KP check groups and all of the usual elitist fake it till you make discriminating behavior that they bring in.

    Furthermore I'd like to state that I've been a part of groups who are 100 ESS who were kind of mediocre, and then the very next night joined a non KP group that was exceedingly efficient, despite a lack of some important role even, like missing a Renegade. I don't speak for KPs in other games, but in Guild Wars 2 CM Fractals, KPs are a joke for these reasons:

    1. Grinding enough CM fractal to have 100 ESS and LNHB may show that someone is an "adequate" player, but it doesn't mean they are a strong player.
    2. And having only 10 ESS doesn't mean that a player isn't strong. Let me tell you, when it comes to players who are actually talented who pick up on things rather quickly because they aren't a potato, they only need to run something like 100 CM a couple times before becoming more than adequate. Then if they were to run it 5x or 6x, those types of players will have essentially mastered the run.
    3. Requiring 100 ESS or even 50 ESS cuts out those kinds of players from joining your group, elongating wait times. But the worst thing it does, is encourage people to lie, which invites in all kinds of problems within the team comp and encouragement of toxicity.
    4. Speaking for myself here: "As a person with currently 90 some ESS, I can state that I am no better at running 99CM or 100CM now, than I was when I had first recognized that I had confidently come to understand all of the mechanics, which must happened for me around 6 to 8 ESS." So in my humble opinion, it would seem that most players reach their peak in mechanical understanding/performance at around 10 to 15 ESS that I've noticed. <- So due to my observations of this, I feel it is incredibly ridiculous, unnecessary, and only asking for trouble, when you make groups like 100 ESS req. Again, all it does is invite in the potential for problems to occur.

    So @Clyan.1593 I suggest just try lowing your ESS req. Seriously man, posting for a 10-20 ESS group will draw in more people who actually have 10 to 20 ESS, and less people who feel the need to lie, who don't know the run at all. At least this seems to be true in my experience.

    Hey, if you're creating an elite static run guild, I totally understand asking for 100 ESS pings and proof checking it, when you're aiming at some seriously organized nightly speed runs. But in LFG? Hell nah, you gotta lower the status quo for all of the reasons I've mentioned, as well as another reason I didn't mention, which is generally lowered population/pool of players even viewing Fractal LFGs to join at all.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    I say my opinion. If someone, on many think another - this is absolutely not problem. How we can measure who say truth ?

    the proper rotation for rev

    no. 1 1 1 is proper.

    its not opinion, ur telling others how rev should be played. and u can simply measure the thruth with... numbers omegalul.
    but yea i agree with u, that everyones is free to play however he want. just dont flex with all ur kps, cuz ur perfect example, it means literally nothing

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    posting for a 10-20 ESS group will draw in more people who actually have 10 to 20 ESS

    on strike this experiment do same result, no matter you ask 20kp, or 200+ kp, people always link 200+, and only few 150+..
    May be same can be with cms.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    its not opinion, ur telling others how rev should be played.

    yes, I can tell how everyone should play, bs, rev, hfb, hsg, chrno, druid, and etc. And after check I see that I complete that content 2x more times than you.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Grinding enough CM fractal to have 100 ESS and LNHB may show that someone is an "adequate" player, but it doesn't mean they are a strong player.

    Grinding? LNHB gets done on the way. I had mine before I had 10 KP together. Also you just described why KP and similar demands are seeing use: to find adequate players. The PvE content in this game is not taht hard, but the majority of players is rather weak. Sorting for adequate is literally what most LFG demands are for.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    2. And having only 10 ESS doesn't mean that a player isn't strong. Let me tell you, when it comes to players who are actually talented who pick up on things rather quickly because they aren't a potato, they only need to run something like 100 CM a couple times before becoming more than adequate. Then if they were to run it 5x or 6x, those types of players will have essentially mastered the run.

    If you are looking for 300+ KP players, you aren't looking for players who have to "pick up on things". What ever you believe your runs are like, there is a huge gap to the top. You are basically comparing gold to legend players here, to use a pvp analogy (with legend being organized static speedrun groups, and P1-3 being high skill PUGs to medium skill statics).

    But again, for most PUG groups it's about getting adequate players, no one will care if you do 15k or 20k dps.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    3. Requiring 100 ESS or even 50 ESS cuts out those kinds of players from joining your group, elongating wait times. But the worst thing it does, is encourage people to lie, which invites in all kinds of problems within the team comp and encouragement of toxicity.

    True, but if players chose to lie, that's on them. Simply removing the thing they lie about will not make honest people out of them. It will simply remove the metric which they are lying about. The players will still join groups not intended for them.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    4. Speaking for myself here: "As a person with currently 90 some ESS, I can state that I am no better at running 99CM or 100CM now, than I was when I had first recognized that I had confidently come to understand all of the mechanics, which must happened for me around 6 to 8 ESS." So in my humble opinion, it would seem that most players reach their peak in mechanical understanding/performance at around 10 to 15 ESS that I've noticed. <- So due to my observations of this, I feel it is incredibly ridiculous, unnecessary, and only asking for trouble, when you make groups like 100 ESS req. Again, all it does is invite in the potential for problems to occur.

    Speaking as a player who has 400+ KP, I saw huge differences in my performance between 10, 50, 100 and 250+ KP. Both in terms of automation, classes I play, problems I can deal with and the amount of carry I can bring if needed.

    Unless you are running no-healer (because heal FB is a way to strong carry for other players mistakes), play every class/role and don't wipe nearly ever, there is a lot of room for improvement on your side.

    Just to make this very clear:
    if you are running HEAL FIREBRAND in CMs and Fractals, you are robbing yourself of actually getting better at the game/content. The class makes it nearly impossible to fail and allows a good FB player to carry through almost ALL mechanics (stab when needed, well timed aegis against hit, massive healing, time for CC with consumables since mantras still work, etc.).

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    if you are running HEAL FIREBRAND in CMs and Fractals, you are robbing yourself of actually getting better at the game/content. T

    I was abort runs wiht qfb when after success 100 run people start die on mama in 99cm, or bleed of fire kill dps in common swapland .. qfb don't want swap and left, very often good dps left also, and you try find "any ptv scapper" to finish t4 .. No, thanks. Not my way.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    its not opinion, ur telling others how rev should be played.

    yes, I can tell how everyone should play, bs, rev, hfb, hsg, chrno, druid, and etc. And after check I see that I complete that content 2x more times than you.

    No Man u proved u got Little knowledge, and even less skill, u shouldnt tell anything to Any1.
    Ill skip the fact i sold some kp and bought infu, but i do fractals 3 Times per day on avarage, so no u didnt conplete content 2x more.
    I told i know what kind of player are u. Ur leeching fractals with healbrand everyday, and every Time someone point u did something bad, u just ping all ur kps do some ";)" emote and tell them ur simply better cuz u have more essences. As i told ur free to be bad its completly ur choice, but dont tell others to be the same.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    u. Ur leeching fractals with healbrand everyday

    exactly!! YES!!
    You confirm my word !! on normal setup when rene pres active elite siphon and 11, and with hfb who press buttons is is like leeching compared vs qfb and rev who do plus additional 4k(6) dps ..
    I like leach setups and non toxic runs. Also you can reread my post about strikes, where minimal count support is 5.

    You aslo free to be bad its completly only you choice, but don't tell others to be the same please.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    if you are running HEAL FIREBRAND in CMs and Fractals, you are robbing yourself of actually getting better at the game/content. T

    I was abort runs wiht qfb when after success 100 run people start die on mama in 99cm, or bleed of fire kill dps in common swapland .. qfb don't want swap and left, very often good dps left also, and you try find "any ptv scapper" to finish t4 .. No, thanks. Not my way.

    I fully understand running heal fb, I do it myself. It's a nice carry for smooth runs, especially with PUG groups.

    I was responding from an aspect of getting better at the game. It does not make sense to use heal FB while trying to improve or talking about player skill.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    u. Ur leeching fractals with healbrand everyday

    exactly!! YES!!
    You confirm my word !! on normal setup when rene pres active elite siphon and 11, and with hfb who press buttons is is like leeching compared vs qfb and rev who do plus additional 4k(6) dps ..
    I like leach setups and non toxic runs. Also you can reread my post about strikes, where minimal count support is 5.

    You aslo free to be bad its completly only you choice, but don't tell others to be the same please.

    Its more like 30 k dps diffrence if u talk about HB and 111 rene vs qb and rene that knows how to play. Not to mention high burst, that makes u skip bubble on mama p1 (im So glad last exposed nerf made HB groups struggle with mama p1 phasing).
    Not sur why PPL think sidestepping and doing dps is toxic

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Grinding enough CM fractal to have 100 ESS and LNHB may show that someone is an "adequate" player, but it doesn't mean they are a strong player.

    Grinding? LNHB gets done on the way. I had mine before I had 10 KP together. Also you just described why KP and similar demands are seeing use: to find adequate players. The PvE content in this game is not taht hard, but the majority of players is rather weak. Sorting for adequate is literally what most LFG demands are for.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    2. And having only 10 ESS doesn't mean that a player isn't strong. Let me tell you, when it comes to players who are actually talented who pick up on things rather quickly because they aren't a potato, they only need to run something like 100 CM a couple times before becoming more than adequate. Then if they were to run it 5x or 6x, those types of players will have essentially mastered the run.

    If you are looking for 300+ KP players, you aren't looking for players who have to "pick up on things". What ever you believe your runs are like, there is a huge gap to the top. You are basically comparing gold to legend players here, to use a pvp analogy (with legend being organized static speedrun groups, and P1-3 being high skill PUGs to medium skill statics).

    But again, for most PUG groups it's about getting adequate players, no one will care if you do 15k or 20k dps.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    3. Requiring 100 ESS or even 50 ESS cuts out those kinds of players from joining your group, elongating wait times. But the worst thing it does, is encourage people to lie, which invites in all kinds of problems within the team comp and encouragement of toxicity.

    True, but if players chose to lie, that's on them. Simply removing the thing they lie about will not make honest people out of them. It will simply remove the metric which they are lying about. The players will still join groups not intended for them.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    4. Speaking for myself here: "As a person with currently 90 some ESS, I can state that I am no better at running 99CM or 100CM now, than I was when I had first recognized that I had confidently come to understand all of the mechanics, which must happened for me around 6 to 8 ESS." So in my humble opinion, it would seem that most players reach their peak in mechanical understanding/performance at around 10 to 15 ESS that I've noticed. <- So due to my observations of this, I feel it is incredibly ridiculous, unnecessary, and only asking for trouble, when you make groups like 100 ESS req. Again, all it does is invite in the potential for problems to occur.

    Speaking as a player who has 400+ KP, I saw huge differences in my performance between 10, 50, 100 and 250+ KP. Both in terms of automation, classes I play, problems I can deal with and the amount of carry I can bring if needed.

    Unless you are running no-healer (because heal FB is a way to strong carry for other players mistakes), play every class/role and don't wipe nearly ever, there is a lot of room for improvement on your side.

    Just to make this very clear:
    if you are running HEAL FIREBRAND in CMs and Fractals, you are robbing yourself of actually getting better at the game/content. The class makes it nearly impossible to fail and allows a good FB player to carry through almost ALL mechanics (stab when needed, well timed aegis against hit, massive healing, time for CC with consumables since mantras still work, etc.).

    There are small increases in "efficiency" if you would, from 10 to 50 to 100 to 200, sure. But you're talking some ridiculously miniscule improvements for increased wait times and a lot of added social stigma.

    Look man, do it how you want. I'm just pointing out that in most cases I've experienced, 10-20 ESS ping groups draw in nearly as capable of LFG groups as an elite static crew, although the 10-20 ESS group may take slightly longer to complete a run vs. extra time waiting for the high ESS assembly or some daily schedule that you log in at the same time of day every day, to run with your crew.

    I'm talking practicality behind time & scheduling here. Personally I don't really care if a CMs T4s Rec run takes me 45 minutes to complete or an hour.. When I log in I want to form a group immediately that can clear the run in a reasonable amount of time, with the least amount of time spent searching for participants. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just clearing up that the safe zone margin to do that is 10-20 ESS. I don't prefer to wait for high ESS groups for some kind of 10% increase in clear time.

    For me it isn't worth supporting such elite expectations in a relatively easy game mode clear that varies little in clear times between 20 ESS vs. 200 ESS, especially for the amount of social stigma that it brings the community.

    There are also other truths to this that people don't seem to notice. For example:

    • A guy pings that he has 100 ESS and he actually does, it's real. But this is a player who is returning after a 3 month break, who isn't used to the new current patching, who is very rusty.
    • A guy pings 10 ESS, but that 10 ESS has all came from within his last week of solid gameplay where he has been focusing rather hard on refining his CM runs. In fact, even after daily chests are complete, he has went out of his way to run 99 and 100 to completion 3x or 4x a day, for the sake of good practice and teaching his friends.

    Who do you think is going to perform better in the CM run?

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    Ok, ok, we have the right rev rotation now. I think we can move beyond that. Just because lare and lare's 750 KP groups probably put in 1/4 the effort others do and still get the same rewards and more KP doesn't mean it's needed to be bitter and flex all over the place. Just let them play the way they want. :)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I'm talking practicality behind time & scheduling here. Personally I don't really care if a CMs T4s Rec run takes me 45 minutes to complete or an hour..

    Now do that math per day of fractal CMs that you do or plan to do.

    https://discretize.eu/augmentations calculates Fractal God to take 284 days (it's closer to 250 with bonus relics gained) if you run CMs+T4+recs daily. Now let's do the math for "only" 250 days of 15 minutes per day more in time spent.

    250x15 = 3,750 minutes = 62.5 hours = 2 days and 14.5 hours of extra time spent. That's around 3 days you spent more per year in fractals, and that's only for getting to fractal god, something fractal regular players have had done for quite a while.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    There are also other truths to this that people don't seem to notice. For example:
    - A guy pings that he has 100 ESS and he actually does, it's real. But this is a player who is returning after a 3 month break, who isn't used to the new current patching, who > is very rusty.

    • A guy pings 10 ESS, but that 10 ESS has all came from within his last week of solid gameplay where he has been focusing rather hard on refining his CM runs. In fact, even > after daily chests are complete, he has went out of his way to run 99 and 100 to completion 3x or 4x a day, for the sake of good practice and teaching his friends.

    I'd take the 100 ESS guy and see how he performed in arc, kick if needed. Then again, I don't search for 100 ESS but 250+, at which point I'd take neither. As far as experience with lower KP groups, mine was seldom as positive as yours.

    You are correct though: people should play the game how they feel comfortable. I'm just saying: don't judge other players preferences or behavior based on your personal approach or experience with the content.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as experience with lower KP groups, mine was seldom as positive as yours.

    Honestly a lot of that is just because our 3 man crew carries hard. I mean we do HB/Ren/Usually me on BS, and then we pick up 2 rando PUGs whatever they want to play. I find that we don't even NEED the 2 extra PUGs outside of the luxury of extra DPS and of course for awkward mechanics like "2 buttons & console" which is a pain in the kitten for only 3 people to do sometimes, especially with the wrong instabilities in play. Other than that though, You can very easily complete every fight/boss with only 3 people who are good on HB/Ren/BS.

    And then if it's a night where I'm alone, "which happens from time to time" I have a Reaper build that I very specifically designed to hard carry random low KP groups. Reaper is the one class that can do this overly well in ways that sometimes I am not so sure Arenanet is aware of.

    So in a way, I don't really care if my PUGs are god awful bad because we'll make sure that the fractal gets completed, regardless.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly a lot of that is just because our 3 man crew carries hard. I mean we do HB/Ren/Usually me on BS, and then we pick up 2 rando PUGs whatever they want to play. I find that we don't even NEED the 2 extra PUGs outside of the luxury of extra DPS and of course for awkward mechanics like "2 buttons & console" which is a pain in the kitten for only 3 people to do sometimes, especially with the wrong instabilities in play. Other than that though, You can very easily complete every fight/boss with only 3 people who are good on HB/Ren/BS.

    Pretty much this lol. In the occasion we pug, we're really just looking for warm bodies that aren't rude and don't do crazy things like set off skulls or w/e, making a negative contribution. In some cases it may be better off to just 4 person it.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    And then if it's a night where I'm alone, "which happens from time to time" I have a Reaper build that I very specifically designed to hard carry random low KP groups. Reaper is the one class that can do this overly well in ways that sometimes I am not so sure Arenanet is aware of.

    Shhhhh! Don't go giving them ideas!

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Ok, ok, we have the right rev rotation now. I think we can move beyond that. Just because lare and lare's 750 KP groups probably put in 1/4 the effort others do and still get the same rewards and more KP doesn't mean it's needed to be bitter and flex all over the place. Just let them play the way they want. :)

    I agree, but with lower population, it's kind of ridiculous to look in the LFG and see a group posted as "200 ESS CMs" who has a HB and a BS sitting in it, and then directly under it is a "20 ESS CMs" with a Ren and 2 DPS with it, but then both groups wait for another 10-15 minutes or something to fill their groups before starting, rather than just merging.

    Play how you want. It just bugs me that people tunnel vision and are not conscious of their decision making, and that lately they are becoming less time efficient because they are trying too hard to be time efficient. <- This kind of stuff begins to effect everyone during low population. Situations like:

    1. It is 6:00 am eastern
    2. The only FB and Ren online are posted in the LFG as "150 ESS"
    3. A 2nd group posted as "20 ESS HB/Ren" is directly bellow them, sitting with 3 DPS.
    4. But the FB and Ren would rather wait 30+ minutes or more, or log offline and come back later, than merge
    5. It results in a situation where both groups end up killing their LFGs to come back more near reset

    ^ Considering the time of day, there is no reason other than blind elite tunnel visioning, why those two groups could not have merged and completed the CM T4s. In a way, what we are discussing here is a problem that is kind of transcendent of "How I want to play" because it's becoming an issue of "If there is even enough players within one's same ESS demographic to play at all".

    That's all I'm trying to point out. Just be conscious of what's going on. Help support game activity rather than community gating, because that is the same kitten that largely contributed to why raids have all but died off completely.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Ok, ok, we have the right rev rotation now. I think we can move beyond that. Just because lare and lare's 750 KP groups probably put in 1/4 the effort others do and still get the same rewards and more KP doesn't mean it's needed to be bitter and flex all over the place. Just let them play the way they want. :)

    I agree, but with lower population, it's kind of ridiculous to look in the LFG and see a group posted as "200 ESS CMs" who has a HB and a BS sitting in it, and then directly under it is a "20 ESS CMs" with a Ren and 2 DPS with it, but then both groups wait for another 10-15 minutes or something to fill their groups before starting, rather than just merging.

    Play how you want. It just bugs me that people tunnel vision and are not conscious of their decision making, and that lately they are becoming less time efficient because they are trying too hard to be time efficient. <- This kind of stuff begins to effect everyone during low population. Situations like:

    1. It is 6:00 am eastern
    2. The only FB and Ren online are posted in the LFG as "150 ESS"
    3. A 2nd group posted as "20 ESS HB/Ren" is directly bellow them, sitting with 3 DPS.
    4. But the FB and Ren would rather wait 30+ minutes or more, or log offline and come back later, than merge
    5. It results in a situation where both groups end up killing their LFGs to come back more near reset

    ^ Considering the time of day, there is no reason other than blind elite tunnel visioning, why those two groups could not have merged and completed the CM T4s. In a way, what we are discussing here is a problem that is kind of transcendent of "How I want to play" because it's becoming an issue of "If there is even enough players within one's same ESS demographic to play at all".

    That's all I'm trying to point out. Just be conscious of what's going on. Help support game activity rather than community gating, because that is the same kitten that largely contributed to why raids have all but died off completely.

    I agree, but what can you do?

    I think it probably comes with poor experience. Like someone will make a50 KP group, and it went bad so they assume they need even more KP to filter out undesirables. But it doesn't really work like that since the content's been around a while.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Ok, ok, we have the right rev rotation now. I think we can move beyond that. Just because lare and lare's 750 KP groups probably put in 1/4 the effort others do and still get the same rewards and more KP doesn't mean it's needed to be bitter and flex all over the place. Just let them play the way they want. :)

    I agree, but with lower population, it's kind of ridiculous to look in the LFG and see a group posted as "200 ESS CMs" who has a HB and a BS sitting in it, and then directly under it is a "20 ESS CMs" with a Ren and 2 DPS with it, but then both groups wait for another 10-15 minutes or something to fill their groups before starting, rather than just merging.

    Play how you want. It just bugs me that people tunnel vision and are not conscious of their decision making, and that lately they are becoming less time efficient because they are trying too hard to be time efficient. <- This kind of stuff begins to effect everyone during low population. Situations like:

    1. It is 6:00 am eastern
    2. The only FB and Ren online are posted in the LFG as "150 ESS"
    3. A 2nd group posted as "20 ESS HB/Ren" is directly bellow them, sitting with 3 DPS.
    4. But the FB and Ren would rather wait 30+ minutes or more, or log offline and come back later, than merge
    5. It results in a situation where both groups end up killing their LFGs to come back more near reset

    ^ Considering the time of day, there is no reason other than blind elite tunnel visioning, why those two groups could not have merged and completed the CM T4s. In a way, what we are discussing here is a problem that is kind of transcendent of "How I want to play" because it's becoming an issue of "If there is even enough players within one's same ESS demographic to play at all".

    That's all I'm trying to point out. Just be conscious of what's going on. Help support game activity rather than community gating, because that is the same kitten that largely contributed to why raids have all but died off completely.

    there is huge skill disparity between 20 and 200 kp groups (latter ones usualy suck as well). i dont treat fractals as daily farm only, but great source of fun, and im not having fun with ppl not doing cc, dealing 0,5 of dps they should do, failing mechs and so on. i prefer to wait longer and have somehow decent ppl.
    but everyone is finding fun is something diffrent ofc.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Kahlan.7249Kahlan.7249 Member ✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    I have not noticed any differences in fractal pugs on weekends vs weekdays

    But yeah that sucks :(

    Honestly now that we're on the topic of it, I find the kp discussion (verifying ~truth~ and whatever's a proxy for skill/performance in this game) to be very interesting.

    Sometimes I ask players who I see repeated high performance from how much kp they have, and I'm usually shocked to find that the number was actually really high. I get a lot of replies like "Uhh lemme check, I sold a stack and I have one stack in the bank rn and okay, gw2efficiency says i have 54 on my ren, 93 on my BS..."

    And then I do the calculations and this person has accumulated like over 600kp.
    .
    .
    Hehe maybe it's obvious but just because a group is "50kp" or whatever, doesn't mean the people who made the group/all the players in it actually have that amount on average. I know my friend who has like 800+kp and invites people who I know also have a lot (like at least 300kp), and she makes "50kp" or "100kp" groups just so they fill faster.

    I know this isn't the case you're talking about, but I do wonder if sometimes someone joins and thinks "Wow this 50kp group was so good!! 50kp is better than 250kp!!!" but the group was actually made up of people who say, had 500kp on average LOL.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If someone has many kp it means he "finished" arkk x Times. He should know mechanics and be used to them, but its not must be. As someone in thread proved, u May have over 1k kp and still be bad. Usually if i See PPL insisting on having healbrand, they are the ones failing mechanics. Thats what happen when u have a dedicated support that cover up ur mistakes.
    Last Time i had guy that told he dont have 250, and asked if we can give him chance. He played well and later he asked how can he improve and what to do to play better. These kind of players are usually worth Way more than PPL pinging all their possible kps

    make prepardness baseline plz