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The Death of Thief

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  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.
    balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

    Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.
    balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

    Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

    it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is kitten.

    edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.
    peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?
    Lol ur saying it's fine as a non thief player, best known thief player now with damage nerfs on thief cant in high level play even effectively down half the classes in a decent time in a +1 lmao that's 2v1.... states should ring some bells about thiefs dps but ok I'm sure u know thiefs state better than a long time top lv thief player being u dont play thief or atleast anywhere to the level sind does. Just be honest u like thief being weak as $hit at u dont want it buffed to point fighting them may be a challenge again, and to ur frail ego.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

    becouse its FAR easier for a thief to land a hit then almost any other class, play warrior and tell me how easy it is to touch a thief, and then tell me they should deal somewhat same damage. you hitting your enemies several times more is BASE RESOULT, you are NOT outplaying necro by hitting them twice as often, if anything they are outplaying you if that happens. When I fight a necro as mesmer and i trade blow for blow I will die before they lose 20% hp, 4-5 hits for one is more in line with going even, if I want to "outplay" them I have to roll them with propably 10 hits for every one I take.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

    becouse its FAR easier for a thief to land a hit then almost any other class, play warrior and tell me how easy it is to touch a thief, and then tell me they should deal somewhat same damage. you hitting your enemies several times more is BASE RESOULT, you are NOT outplaying necro by hitting them twice as often, if anything they are outplaying you if that happens. When I fight a necro as mesmer and i trade blow for blow I will die before they lose 20% hp, 4-5 hits for one is more in line with going even, if I want to "outplay" them I have to roll them with propably 10 hits for every one I take.

    I'm not asking for thief to do 70% of a classes hp on a single backstab I'm asking for a small general blanket buff to thiefs skills and slight general decrease in the sustain of classes in the game. I'm saying if a thief sets up and lands a backstab bursts and gets off some autos and a heart seeker they should be doing enough dps given how squishy they are for that handful of attacks to pressure a class enough to put thief on even ground considering its squishyness cuz as of now the bs, auto and hs will take like 15% or 20% and the opponent will shrug that off and with classes defensive abilities the thief has to grossly out play the opponent which is fine but as it stands u have to grossly outplay them three times longer than u should have to given the little pressure u can take as a thief before disengaging.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

    You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

    You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

    this guy was definitely a free kill for thieves before this last balance patch

    You are always bound to lose to better players regardless of the class they play but..in the past the skill discrepancy between a thief and another player could have been so apparent and still the results would be different from expectations , all due to wrongly balanced mechanics, a fact that has been rightfully rectified with various balance patches . Now a bad player on a thief will go back always to where he belongs....respawn point

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The ability to do 70% with set up and the enemy failing to stop any part (after the backstab, of course), yeah? Idk, sounds reasonable. Thats what Rev does. Thats what Ranger does.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

    Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

    So you want a spec dealing 70% of any target health with the ability to try again if you fail?....how exactly am I considered biased and you not?

    The fact that they'd have to try again means breathing room for the opponent as well, now knowing thiefs there allows for the many counterplay available. Why do u think it's ok for thief to be squishy and take little damage before being downed if misplayed is ok but thief should be required to land far more hits to down his opponent. A thief can be downed in 3 or four and sometimes less decent hits. Why shouldn't it have the damage to quickly deal damage comparable to high hp/armor classes? U sound like a player who crys and gets mad everytime ur out played lol like it's the classes design fault every time. U want thief to be free kill? If a thief can be downed quickly cuz low hp/armor why should it take a long time to down its opponent?

    You're not outplaying anybody here buddy...you're just teleporting from 1200 range while being completely invisible and expect to deal 70% of a target health regardless of their armor rating.....wth are you even outplaying here?

    You're not a warrior baiting dodges or somebody landing a nice combo after avoiding the enemy burst......you're just a stealth gimmick kitten oneshot...you're not outplaying anybody..you never did

    See ur talking biased nonsense and are assuming what I'm doing in fight even,so we should take ur balance suggestions based on what? Ur lack of thief knowledge and ur fantasy scenarios? Lmao this is why anet needs to ignore players like u.
    I play dp only. I tele once SOMETIMES to steal and set up backstab or a lot of the times I save my steal. I time my blinds and use evades and smart use of blackpoweders in combo with HS to reposition to set up another backstab, lots of counter play vs BS at this point then I continue to use good timing blinds and evades with HS here and there to eventually down the enemy. This takes forever and I need to land about 30 hits by end of fight while avoiding what like 4 hits from the opponent lmao I call that grossly out playing hard especially since it takes well over a minute and a half. Somtimes u get the down and sometimes ur dps just won't keep up with their sustain and they will just keep out sustaining u while applying equal burst dps with sustained dps on top lol.
    I am fine having to avoid almost all hits and being downed if 3 or so connect on my but what I'm not fine with is while avoiding them taking over a minute to down the opponent cuz my bursts are so weak as $hit.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.
    balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

    Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

    it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is kitten.

    edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.
    peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

    Its not 3-6k stabs unfortunately. Its closer to 3-4.5k. And the followup is not much better. If it was a 10k combo, thatd be a different story. Its not. But most of the time? Its like 8k tops. Lower than that normally. Thats the problem. Assassins Signet was already mandatory if you wanted to do damage prior to the patch. And then it got nerfed.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.
    But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?
    U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.
    I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

    also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.
    balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

    Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

    it is not relevant what average person thinks, average person is kitten.

    edit, IF and its a big IF with the current devs, IF they nerf necro/holo/ranger/rev/fb/whatever , thief will be fine.
    peeps land 3-6k stabs and feel useless but lemme tell you, when im on wizard ammy on mesmer and get chunked for 10k with a combo it REALLY screws me over, its just other classes having insane HP pools ( 50k+ necro ) or kinghts amulet/demo prot holo with pulsing heals etc etc

    Its not 3-6k stabs unfortunately. Its closer to 3-4.5k. And the followup is not much better. If it was a 10k combo, thatd be a different story. Its not. But most of the time? Its like 8k tops. Lower than that normally. Thats the problem. Assassins Signet was already mandatory if you wanted to do damage prior to the patch. And then it got nerfed.

    No point in arguing. I stated multiple times clearly what I expected and in no way shape or form said anything about one shot yet his arguement keeps using that as his main point of arguement, stating I just want to run around one shotting people lol as if he just ignore what the other persons saying and just spouts his nonsense to fit his arguement as if I said things i didn't even say lol. Hes proved himself in his statements that hes nothing more than a biased I want thief deleted cuz they kill me and their unfair player that can't take being out played lol.

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.
    Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

    Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.
    -Eros of Ascalon

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    I think it's the same idea with everyone running mirages.

    Counter-speccing. Like counterportal or, in thief's case, counterdecap + mobility.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Project exa.3204 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.
    Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

    Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.
    -Eros of Ascalon

    Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    I think it's the same idea with everyone running mirages.

    Counter-speccing. Like counterportal or, in thief's case, counterdecap + mobility.

    It's really not, Misha is the only one pulling mirage off.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    It's really not, Misha is the only one pulling mirage off.

    Yeah that's why you see mirages are mostly specced against Misha.

    See previous mAT.

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Project exa.3204 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.
    Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

    Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.
    -Eros of Ascalon

    Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.

    Here's my philosophy. mAT players and hardcore players are ALWAYS going to probably have a thief, because they've already reached the learning curve pinnacle and can maximize the usage. They're already at that level, so buffing them further (like how I mentioned to make them strike through invul or possibly shields) really only just secures their utility. Is it honestly fair that if you want to play pvp as a thief you better learn to play REAL GOOD and do mAT's because the ranked queues will throw you with some mixes that are extremely disadvantageous?

    I honest to gosh think the focus on mAT causes a lot of problems in the pvp community. There's a much much smaller % of people playing mATs than solo or duo queue.
    Anet can keep nerfing metas that are abused in the mAT, but (with the exception of the coefficient patch) they've never tried to bridge that gap between new players WANTING to be better at pvp--and hardcore players stomping them / snuffing the fun out of them before they ever get the chance. Hardcore players will always always find builds that work, but new players and average players give up so easily. Those are the folks I think about the most...and to that point OP is right.

    There has to be a place where thiefs belong that isn't just a +1 or point decapper in the majority pvp world. They have to be able to REALLY assassinate classes, to trade off for all the relative squishiness the majority have. Will this cause the ultra thiefs to feel stronger? Heck yes, but that's where it should rightfully be. As a Soulbeast I'm fine with the classes being toned down further if it means that there's greater balance / purpose to the specs. Thief is SUPPOSED to be that singular murderer that your team HAS to consider, or your team is going to get killed. It's not right now at all for the majority of bronze - gold games. That's the area that I care about, personally (not mAT)
    -Eros of Ascalon

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    A lot of mat thief players arent comfortable with their abilities at that level on other classes so they continue to play their and do best they can within match. Some have stated they'd have left the class by now if they were good enough on others. In time I bet we see less thieves as long time thief players get comfortable on other classes that provide more help to a team then just decapping.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    A lot of mat thief players arent comfortable with their abilities at that level on other classes so they continue to play their and do best they can within match. Some have stated they'd have left the class by now if they were good enough on others. In time I bet we see less thieves as long time thief players get comfortable on other classes that provide more help to a team then just decapping.

    That may be true. I've known quite a few thiefs that now play ranger or other classes, but that's really unfair to ask from a gamer that likes the way a class works to change their class just because it's only got 1-2 usable builds. If that's happening with the top mat players--just think about all those average and not so good players. They're the majority of the pvp community, and I can tell you (if you haven't been in Gold or below in a long while) that they get SO MUCH HATE from other players telling them what to they're supposed to be doing--or to just not being at the right place in that curve to really help the team & causing losses.

    Sometimes if you like a class you just have to suffer through seasons. I expect there's going to be a better balance patch in the next 1-2 seasons, now that the coefficient patch is fully realized. Can't tell you how many seasons I was pigeonholed into certain ranger builds because nothing else was really viable. I miss the days of being able to run around with spirits, (and those days are never coming back) but I still am not really changing all my gears and going other classes just because the things I wish could work. I just love the way ranger plays too much, and if it means I can't break out of Gold 3 because I don't want to always play the main viable meta builds...it's just what has to happen. But this also means that I'm demolishing thiefs in the lower ranks with impunity, so I can't really blame someone for wanting to throw in the towel.

    I'm also not the same as most players, and I definitely feel for the average players that are bright-eyed and want to pvp...and then just get the light snuffed out of them.

    I'm starting to think more and more that some skills need to be very separated between mAT, sPVP, and WvW. It would be more work on Anets part...but having that line drawn will enable more players at all levels to have more fun. That's the main thing that should matter (the fun) not "how good is this going to be in the mAT?"
    -Eros of Ascalon

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Please nerf theef. Thank you!

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

      1. Thief - Can simply +1 or decap points

    You're balanced what else do you want
    \s

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Project exa.3204 said:
    Chiming in as a lifelong ranger here,

    I'm not sure what needs to be done, but killing thiefs of any kind seems to be easier than ever. There are some super gimmicky playstyles out there right now that might get a win or two here and there...but overall thiefs seem to be comparatively much weaker post-coefficient update. I don't know why anyone would play one unless the only thing they wanted to do was decap points and be a +1. The 2v2 season was just a preview, and a buddy of mine stopped playing his thief almost all together. Running a thief in 2v2 in the mini season was like running into a brick wall for any team that capitalized on combos. The proper 5v5 matches exacerbate the combo problems now.

    Now, post coefficient patch, the power creep is a little more noticeable. Rangers at least probably are rightfully due for a big nerf in the future. Just about anything a thief can do, I feel a ranger can do better somehow. Power? Check. Condi? Check. Survivability? Check. CC? Check. Mobility? Close enough to not notice. Even stealth? Rangers have it too & can abuse it if they really tried.

    Thiefs may still be workable with certain builds to get wins, but if the only thing the thief can really do is decap points & pray there's no bunker...that definitely is not fun or fair to require from people that want to play thief. The last patch did a lot of things, but really benefitted rangers the most. It unlocked so many new different builds that are viable now. Thiefs? The opposite happened. There are less viable builds now.

    This might be possibly TOO radical....but if Anet just made thiefs capable of killing through invulnerability or more unblockables--it would allow for many different thief builds to be put into play. It would be a perfect fit for a thief to cancel out a shrinking engi, or a guard, or a signet ranger AND it would make playing thief more fun again.

    Just my two coppers!
    -Eros of Ascalon

    omg Eros hello! it's Homi

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    You need to troll more and care less. a profession that becomes completely redundant with proper positioning can only be considered a meme,

    thieves don't have a Role. what thieves are doing is an effect. Stop over rotating and thieves can't +1 or Decap….

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    You need to troll more and care less. a profession that becomes completely redundant with proper positioning can only be considered a meme,

    thieves don't have a Role. what thieves are doing is an effect. Stop over rotating and thieves can't +1 or Decap….

    you didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    That overall..."arrogance" of thief players for having that mentality where : " I only die if I want to die and I kill you when I want"...makes my blood boil , do you think that people buy the game to be your personal toy in a virtual playground ?

    Nobody in his right mind would play a game only to be in fear of a seemingly invincible enemy that can pop out of nowhere doing life threatening damage before slipping back into invisible mode

    Let's start from removing stealth from GW2, that should bring back the idea of "high risk" for some burst builds in this game

    +1

    exactly this is one main reason why many do not play Guild Wars 2. With Guild Wars 2 being the most Bad Design Stealth Mechanic; what Profession comes into mind? Cetainly not Mesmer Profession but Thief Profession

    since Guild Wars 2 beta, the majority of us constantly warned Anet to take Thief Profession stealth very seriously because it is game breaking in resulting in population drop with having negative consequences of word-of-mouth and streaming of its Toxicity of the game.

    Fast forward, it came into existence-, 'Stay away from Guild Wars 2, Do Not Play Guild Wars 2 because you will be +1 shotted in stealth by a Thief class''You Can Perma-Stealth In Guild Wars 2' They do not see anything wrong with it' 'I wouldn't touch that game if i were you'

    In addition, we have lost many players including many influential players who helped encouraged in game players including in helping attract new potential players.

    The competitive gaming industry non-Guild Wars 2 players are afraid to play this game especially know that stealth is broken in the game with the help of a bad design class who are given full permission to abuse it at will, with having absolute any consequences-counter to it. 'Why bother play a game where stealth doesn't offer any counter' they would say.

    8 years what necessary steps have taken to address this Toxic Bad Design Mechanic to draw 'new blood' into the game and to give comfort to the competitive gaming industry that they do not have to be afraid to come here?

    ABSOLUTELY NONE!!

    There is no 'if' anymore, It Is What Guild Wars 2 Present Stealth Mechanic As, Toxic-Stay Far Away!! You Will Regret It If You Are Willing To Risk It!!

    In conclusion; i am no longer able to defend this game anymore because history is written all over the internet. With 8 Years with continuation history, there is nothing i can do but watch at a distance

    A distance as being a Guild Wars 2 beta player and as a Guild Wars 1 veteran.....speaking the same...repetitive Truth

    Toxicity Is The Death To Competitive Gaming and To Players Experience~~

    Toxicity Is Non Negotiable and no amount of money thrown at it or to cover it up will stop it!!

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    That overall..."arrogance" of thief players for having that mentality where : " I only die if I want to die and I kill you when I want"...makes my blood boil , do you think that people buy the game to be your personal toy in a virtual playground ?

    Nobody in his right mind would play a game only to be in fear of a seemingly invincible enemy that can pop out of nowhere doing life threatening damage before slipping back into invisible mode

    Let's start from removing stealth from GW2, that should bring back the idea of "high risk" for some burst builds in this game

    +1

    exactly this is one main reason why many do not play Guild Wars 2. With Guild Wars 2 being the most Bad Design Stealth Mechanic; what Profession comes into mind? Cetainly not Mesmer Profession but Thief Profession

    since Guild Wars 2 beta, the majority of us constantly warned Anet to take Thief Profession stealth very seriously because it is game breaking in resulting in population drop with having negative consequences of word-of-mouth and streaming of its Toxicity of the game.

    Fast forward, it came into existence-, 'Stay away from Guild Wars 2, Do Not Play Guild Wars 2 because you will be +1 shotted in stealth by a Thief class'

    In addition, we have lost many players including many influential players who helped encouraged in game players including in helping attract new potential players.

    The competitive gaming industry non-Guild Wars 2 players are afraid to play this game especially know that stealth is broken in the game with the help of a bad design class who are given full permission to abuse it at will, with having absolute any consequences-counter to it. 'Why bother play a game where stealth doesn't offer any counter' they would say.

    8 years what necessary steps have taken to address this Toxic Bad Design Mechanic to draw 'new blood' into the game and to give comfort to the competitive gaming industry that they do not have to be afraid to come here?

    ABSOLUTELY NONE!!

    Stealth is not badly design. It's one of the only things keeping thief from being completely eliminated from Guild Wars 2 right now. The original Guild Wars assassin even had Shadow Form which is a derivative of what we currently play with now. Stealth is not the problem since multiple professions have skills and traits that reveal thieves from stealth or force thieves into a position where we are unable to go into stealth. Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Rev, Necro. That of itself shows that stealth already has counterplay. Now if you want to be emotional and just live in a state of fear about thieves going into stealth, or if you want to use counterplay against the profession is your choice. Furthermore, thief has never just 1shot people out of stealth unless they are fellow members of the glass army. Glass builds have always been categorized as high risk, high reward. If a core elementalist or another thief presents themselves running a high risk builds, then they're obviously willing to accept the high risk consequences. Lets go into builds that have historically provided the most counterplay to thieves: scrappers, core necro and scourge, spellbreaker warriors, core and druid and soulbeast ranger, among other builds providing support like tempest, all guardians and even herald revenants. All of these professions have skills or traits to counter thief stealth, so obviously these classes are provided with some form of way to combat thieves unlike your mentality would suggest. If you think thief is so easy, then why don't you try playing it and getting back to me?

    Furthermore, the past of thief should and shouldn't have an effect on where thief is currently at. Yes some thief skills were absolutely overtuned: Assassin's Signet is a skill that I think should be absolutely nerfed due to the insane amount of power it gives. However, when thieves are at a point where there is nowhere or nothing for them to do in games aside from decapping, there's a problem. Not to mention if a thief is forced into a fight for a decap, they are absolutely going to die due to having no damage or sustain. Some currently popular side "noders" (I hate the word node) include engineers, revenants, rangers, guardians and necros. Classes that i've already outlined have plentiful counterplay to thief stealth. However stealth is not the problem in these fights: damage, sustain, initiative are what separates thieves from these other professions. A thief can have all the skill in the world, think Vallun or whoever the other big thief streamer is. You can put them against a gold tier engineer or even gold/silver ranger and I can absolutely guarantee that Vallun will 100% lose every single time. Sorry Vallun, don't block me or focus me in games. So if thieves can only decap as long as there's nobody on the point (and since this is now officially Bunker Wars) what's the point of even joining a game as you'll be inefficient and able to even contribute anything to your team or the game?

    I know you won't be able to provide a single answer, but think: if there's already plentiful counterplay to thief, why should thieves be forced down and pigeonholed into the sunken place just because people at your skill level can't play? I can guarantee you thieves in silver/gold aren't just one shotting people out of stealth because that's out of their skill level. While I support thief not being a gimmick profession as can be seen with the condi builds that pop up and quite simply shouldn't exist, the power builds require 100% skill and to say anything else is simply blasphemous.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    So.... You agree that warriors, reapers and thieves all need buffs? great. Therefore you agree with my post. You would know that if you actually read it.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    I think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    I think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

    And what unfair advantage do thieves have?

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    I think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

    And what unfair advantage do thieves have?

    Mobility, stealth, instant teleport attacks and more dodges then everyone else, and the ability to disengage whenever, most of the attacks are not well telegraphed or telegraphed at all and when they are they can be covered with range or stealth. If thief has has damage it dictates that there wouldn't not be any other glassier builds same issue that scourge had where you couldn't play any other teamfight builds. If thief can 1v1 kill people and run fast around the map it forces everyone to build just for that one person reducing the viable builds in the game. No one likes to play the tune of one person.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    You want to do dmg or duel? Nobody has ever asked for thief to be limited to a +1 decapper...this is something you guys forced upon yourself by placing wrong expectations on the game. You cannot have and I repeat Cannot have a build capable of burst dmg, duelling and mobility all at the same time.....it's absurd.

    If you want to burst , deal like 50% of the enemy HP to start with...fine by me..but that build must have close to zero sustain as payment for that level of dmg
    If you want to duel, have the ability to sustain through duels, using whichever mechanic..fine by me but that build won't have godly burst as a token for the sustain

    I don't care how many ninja movies you guys watched...this is a MMO, not a RPG with multiplayer, everybody entitled to have fun so things..."thief is supposed to be best 1v1" like hell....it's the player who makes the best 1vs1 not the name of the class

    Basically or you burst or you duel! If no.....sorry can I duel also with a bunker tempest ? I am an elementalist and I am supposed to burn you to a crisp from 1500 range.......see how silly is it?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    I love how thief died JUST AFTER holosmith (counters thieves) became S tier and mirages (countered by thieves) got less common lmao

    @darren.1064 said:

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    So.... You agree that warriors, reapers and thieves all need buffs? great. Therefore you agree with my post. You would know that if you actually read it.

    I think you need to read this

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    I think i said something along these lines somewhere in the post, mostly to kitten with some guy for some forum pvp. But the build you play kinda tells something about you as a person, and when you think about it thief and mesmer by design have unfair advantage.It also correlates usually to that the chat raggers in pvp are thieves, mesmers or the FOTM.

    And what unfair advantage do thieves have?

    Mobility, stealth, instant teleport attacks and more dodges then everyone else, and the ability to disengage whenever, most of the attacks are not well telegraphed or telegraphed at all and when they are they can be covered with range or stealth. If thief has has damage it dictates that there wouldn't not be any other glassier builds same issue that scourge had where you couldn't play any other teamfight builds. If thief can 1v1 kill people and run fast around the map it forces everyone to build just for that one person reducing the viable builds in the game. No one likes to play the tune of one person.

    This will be my last comment because i'm tired of repeating what's already been covered. Stealth and mobility have already been touched upon by the original post by myself and other commentators multiple times so feel free to go back and read that. I will however touch upon dodges. A thief shares the lowest health pool along with two other professions: Guardian and Elementalist. A common theme amongst all three professions is the ability to blind, block, evade or CC. Guardian has several ways to gain aegis in a fight. Elementalist has lightning auras that make it impervious to all melee damage. Both classes also have access to a multitude of skills that allow them to dodge attacks. Weaver is the best example of this where I can think of four skills off the top of my head that have the sole purpose of dodging attacks. Sword #2 on Earth, Water #2 on the same set. The utility can be used twice. Thats four evades not even taking into consideration the fact that they can also dodge two extra times from endurance. 6 dodges overall but there is no complaints about the excessive amount of dodges and mobility that elementalists have as they are a profession that also has multiple shadowsteps and perma-swiftness to accompany these shadowsteps. Guardian has the heaviest armor, skills that allow it to dodge, 2 dodges from endurance, invulnerability skills, blind, CCs, and several skills that give it aegis. This is just base guardian. Not to mention all of the stuff DH and FB can do with their support and/or point control. What can a thief do? dodge 3 times and go into stealth. Thief has one skill that perma-blinds and blocks projectiles (for only 5? seconds) that I don't even like and a single skill that functions as a block. Aside from that the class has to rely on initiative to keep other professions from tearing through their medium armor that also has the lowest health pool if i need to remind you again. So yes thief can move quickly. They're the highest risk, highest reward profession there is. However right now there is no reward, simply risk. Lastly, if a profession has the highest skill ceiling and floor. Well it used to have both; now it just has one. If a profession has both, then yes they should definitely be able to turn a 5v5 game around. Should the hardest profession to play have no reward for playing and mastering it? It's not like thief streamers are walking around everywhere. It takes time-- literal months to get to the top tiers of thief gameplay. Why should they settle for less because you guys can't figure out some counterplay that it right there across multiple different professions.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    You want to do dmg or duel? Nobody has ever asked for thief to be limited to a +1 decapper...this is something you guys forced upon yourself by placing wrong expectations on the game. You cannot have and I repeat Cannot have a build capable of burst dmg, duelling and mobility all at the same time.....it's absurd.

    If you want to burst , deal like 50% of the enemy HP to start with...fine by me..but that build must have close to zero sustain as payment for that level of dmg
    If you want to duel, have the ability to sustain through duels, using whichever mechanic..fine by me but that build won't have godly burst as a token for the sustain

    I don't care how many ninja movies you guys watched...this is a MMO, not a RPG with multiplayer, everybody entitled to have fun so things..."thief is supposed to be best 1v1" like hell....it's the player who makes the best 1vs1 not the name of the class

    Basically or you burst or you duel! If no.....sorry can I duel also with a bunker tempest ? I am an elementalist and I am supposed to burn you to a crisp from 1500 range.......see how silly is it?

    do you actually have a brain?

    Are you blind?...I can run 4-5 professions and memorize dozen of playstyles based on different builds and options ...where you can barely play a single profession..barely like 1-2 builds

    Let me tell you one last thing ...the kind of thief you want...will never exist, any form of thief that will even get close to it will be bombed non stop by nerf threads. Do burst dmg or duel no both...learn to adapt or just leave

    lol "a thief build that used to exist won't exist BeCauSe PeoPlE wIlL MaKe tHrEaDs WanTinG iT tO gEt nErFeD." Well you all should go better players then to deal with a class with 11,645 health and one block. One block across core and two elite specializations.