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The Death of Thief

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  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

    revs have as much mobility as thief. So why arent they getting their damaged reduced then?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    soo, this guy wants to be the fastest while stealthing, while bursting, from stealth mind you, all the while being good at 1v1? you are playing the wrong game friend, try dishonored, it should really fulfill your fantasy.
    oh and ps, thiefs can still obliterate 50%+ of my mesmers hp from stealth 0 counterplay, its just all other classes run bunker kitten with endless sustain prot, toughness, your time would be better spent whining about necros 100k+ hp or holo absurd damage with survival, maybe people would take you seriously then.
    The closest thing you can get is power rev, its like thief but less OOC mobility and no stealth, in turn more sustain and burst, but hey, its harder to play so most thiefs give up and go back to the " bad thief" :D

    Yeah ur right I guess it's better that a high mobile squishy class shouldn't have burst nor sustained dps lmao so the can jump in burst, apply little to no offensive pressure than have to disengage. Thats a awesome class playstyle right there. That sounds like awesome balance right there..... genius.
    Wow I couldn't imagine this game left up to these geniuses.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    relax, try find fun whit another class.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Does anybody else agree / disagree that changing a few mechanics would put new thief builds back into play and secure their niche in general ranked pvp?

    I think giving them the ability to strike through invulnerability or shields is not a HUGE ask or would be too out of character for thiefs. This makes their team viability much better, and would force enemy teams to actually address the thiefs before a snowball occured

    To resolve the stealth problems, they could give each class a new indicator above their utility skills for "there's a thief stealthed in your vicinity."
    --The "stealth detection" ability would be different depending on classes.
    --Rangers would have the highest stealth detection, while classes like warriors would have the lowest.
    --The closer they get to you the higher chance you have of detecting them before they can backstab
    --At the very least it gives people an idea of "I should be ready to evade as quickly as possible"

    Thoughts?
    -Eros of Ascalon

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

    revs have as much mobility as thief. So why arent they getting their damaged reduced then?

    I wish but the bursty boy isn't as mobile it sticks to you like glue but when it kitten up it can't kitten off, usually they are kinda stuck in the fight and they can't zippity zap around the map to get the caps.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

    revs have as much mobility as thief. So why arent they getting their damaged reduced then?

    I wish but the bursty boy isn't as mobile it sticks to you like glue but when it kitten up it can't kitten off, usually they are kinda stuck in the fight and they can't zippity zap around the map to get the caps.

    Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Shiro power rev has: Phase Traversal which is spammable, Unrelenting Assault, and not even to mention Frigid Blitz which is on the axe. Rev's can indeed "stick to you like glue."

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

    As I have said..God Complex, they can't really play a burst spec like a rev, they lack the actual skill level to play a burst spec that doesn't rely on stealth to cover all the mistakes. Revenant hasn't got : shadow/infiltrator return to return you safely back at 1200 range if you screw up..there is no 5-2-2-2 to run away...no shortbow 5 to teleport upward where nobody can catch you.

    No they just have heavier armor, blocks, Facet of Light AND Enchanted Daggers (if we're only talking power rev), Warding Rift, Surge of the Mists and Unrelenting Assault. All of the last 3 function as blocks/impermeability. So truly, you have no point. We have stealth while they have all of that. Next.

    There is no next ...you want a burst/duellist hybrid..play rev...assuming you can handle it...and it doesn't appear so....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    shortbow 5 is meta not thief

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I believe thief players are just wanting their burst back, a burst that is significant enough to make an impact on the higher sustain that classes have since post patch. They are fully ok with having to out play their opponent avoiding almost all damage all while still hitting the opponent with their rotations and bursts,they just want it to reward them with more than the opponent just shrugging it off. Thief players are not asking for sustain damage nor to be able to duel it out blow for blow in a duel. U say think can have burst or duel but not both, while thief has neither as of now and they are asking for their burst back, that's it. Thief can deal with being not a great dueler if they have a good burst to work with cuz most times burst is all u need to deal with bad players on their carry god sustain builds in a 1v1 if u out play them,just not for 3 minutes like now. Most those potatoe players are the frequent players that want thief nerfed cuz as it stood before thief was never a great 1v1 fuel class, atleast not for last 5 yrs and yet a lot people lose to em and cry cuz their egos hurt lol they must be OP cuz reason can't be just I'm not that good lol no never...

    Well i think we have bursty assassin boy with rev, and jumpy dodgy boy with thief many people said rev is like old thief whatever that means. Both are kinda the same just with different flavor. If thief gets burst it shouldn't get mobility with it that is just it or we get another kitten like Firebrand, that does too many things at the same time.
    Isn't unavoidable damage kinda toxic gameplay though, why do you people want it so much?

    As I have said..God Complex, they can't really play a burst spec like a rev, they lack the actual skill level to play a burst spec that doesn't rely on stealth to cover all the mistakes. Revenant hasn't got : shadow/infiltrator return to return you safely back at 1200 range if you screw up..there is no 5-2-2-2 to run away...no shortbow 5 to teleport upward where nobody can catch you.

    No they just have heavier armor, blocks, Facet of Light AND Enchanted Daggers (if we're only talking power rev), Warding Rift, Surge of the Mists and Unrelenting Assault. All of the last 3 function as blocks/impermeability. So truly, you have no point. We have stealth while they have all of that. Next.

    There is no next ...you want a burst/duellist hybrid..play rev...assuming you can handle it...and it doesn't appear so....

    rev is ez cheese

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Project exa.3204 said:
    Does anybody else agree / disagree that changing a few mechanics would put new thief builds back into play and secure their niche in general ranked pvp?

    I think giving them the ability to strike through invulnerability or shields is not a HUGE ask or would be too out of character for thiefs. This makes their team viability much better, and would force enemy teams to actually address the thiefs before a snowball occured

    To resolve the stealth problems, they could give each class a new indicator above their utility skills for "there's a thief stealthed in your vicinity."
    --The "stealth detection" ability would be different depending on classes.
    --Rangers would have the highest stealth detection, while classes like warriors would have the lowest.
    --The closer they get to you the higher chance you have of detecting them before they can backstab
    --At the very least it gives people an idea of "I should be ready to evade as quickly as possible"

    Thoughts?
    -Eros of Ascalon

    thief would have the highest stealth detection, and also give them the ability to disarm traps

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't see any reason to find any balance. If some class will lose 1 vs 1 to any other class - this is ok. Not like ? change class.
    Also don't see any problem if we have anticlass, - this some specific class always lose vs others specific class.
    This is common thing, and people who play thief should take that as rule.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Awor.4879Awor.4879 Member
    edited April 23, 2020

    Just another salty post from bad/average player crying about their class on the forums. Trying to voice his opinion without any ground to step on. Thief mains can cry about that their class is one dimensional, fulfilling only role for a lot of years - roamer/+1. The only thing you guys can wish for is new elite specialization from the new expansion that let's you side node/team fight and radically changes the gameplay of the class. For the current balance thief is in perfect meta spot: dp dd best in class mobility, sustain in terms of stealth, dodges, condi cleanse and has winning roaming 1v1 vs mirage, herald because the thief controls the fight on the roads because of the amount of engage/re-engage, stealth (shadow arts is op if not busted trait line), cheesy deadeyes, condi thiefs. If dp thief has the herald dmg then why play mirage/herald when they don't have the mobility/safety of thief. It's just doesn't make sense. Maybe buff and rework sword 2/3 in sword/dagger build which is more of a team fighter and feels more like herald/duelist and not +1/decap bot. But still every build outside of dp/deadeye("cheese" build) is abusing 1 skill/the amount you can spam one skill because of the thief nature: pistol whip/ sword dagger, old condi thief and even new condi thief to some degree. Go watch/ask some high tier thiefs about their opinion and then go brag about your 10k games, 600lvls to prove some experience which is like bragging about 40k achievement points. Omega LUL.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @infobg.8071 said:
    Just another salty post from bad/average player crying about their class on the forums. Trying to voice his opinion without any ground to step on. Thief mains can cry about that their class is one dimensional, fulfilling only role for a lot of years - roamer/+1. The only thing you guys can wish for is new elite specialization from the new expansion that let's you side node/team fight and radically changes the gameplay of the class. For the current balance thief is in perfect meta spot: dp dd best in class mobility, sustain in terms of stealth, dodges, condi cleanse and has winning roaming 1v1 vs mirage, herald because the thief controls the fight on the roads because of the amount of engage/re-engage, stealth (shadow arts is op if not busted trait line), cheesy deadeyes, condi thiefs. If dp thief has the herald dmg then why play mirage/herald when they don't have the mobility/safety of thief. It's just doesn't make sense. Maybe buff and rework sword 2/3 in sword/dagger build which is more of a team fighter and feels more like herald/duelist and not +1/decap bot. But still every build outside of dp/deadeye("cheese" build) is abusing 1 skill/the amount you can spam one skill because of the thief nature: pistol whip/ sword dagger, old condi thief and even new condi thief to some degree. Go watch/ask some high tier thiefs about their opinion and then go brag about your 10k games, 600lvls to prove some experience which is like bragging about 40k achievement points. Omega LUL.

    did you notice that you can only say thief can kill 2 of 9 professions? You also notice that thief has become a one dimensional class. Good job for having some level of comprehension. However, what's the point of having the highest mobility if you do absolutely 0 damage? Why should thief be banished to fighting in the "roads" when no other class is? And if thief doesn't do any damage when fighting in the roads, then what is even the point? Playing thief has effectively become a 4v5 in gold and plat. Unlike other classes with plentiful amounts of skills and traits that provide: invulnerability, blocks, damage nullification, or even healing skills that reimburse you for all the damage you would take; we're simply asking for damage. We don't need all that.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:
    "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    It does, just not to bunker/duelist builds

    Mesmers, power heralds or other thieves die to thief easy. Rest of the meta are either hard counters to thief since day one or bunkers.

    It's funny when mesmer is bad and engineer is good, thieves also become bad. "Mesmer > Engineer > Thief > Mesmer", delete mesmer from the equation and you have "Engineer > Thief" :P

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    It does, just not to bunker/duelist builds

    Mesmers, power heralds or other thieves die to thief easy. Rest of the meta are either hard counters to thief since day one or bunkers.

    It's funny when mesmer is bad and engineer is good, thieves also become bad. "Mesmer > Engineer > Thief > Mesmer", delete mesmer from the equation and you have "Engineer > Thief" :P

    once again, thief is able to kill two of the other 8 professions? That's balanced to you?

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:
    once again, thief is able to kill two of the other 8 professions? That's balanced to you?

    Thief isn't good IN THIS META

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    once again, thief is able to kill two of the other 8 professions? That's balanced to you?

    Thief isn't good IN THIS META

    Congratulations! Now realize that power and non-cheese thief hasn't been good for several metas! Then we'll be halfway there

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:
    Congratulations! Now realize that power and non-cheese thief hasn't been good for several metas! Then we'll be halfway there

    It was pretty good in the meta just before the patch and in scourge/fb meta. It even had a point where you could play S/D, S/P and D/P.

    Thief is very good or very bad depending on the meta, it's affected more than any other class.

    Also "power thief"? Condi thief was never any good lol I could easily kill them 1v2 in my usual rating.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    once again, thief is able to kill two of the other 8 professions? That's balanced to you?

    Thief isn't good IN THIS META

    I agree, thief is still plenty good in nonexistent metas.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    Congratulations! Now realize that power and non-cheese thief hasn't been good for several metas! Then we'll be halfway there

    It was pretty good in the meta just before the patch and in scourge/fb meta. It even had a point where you could play S/D, S/P and D/P.

    Thief is very good or very bad depending on the meta, it's affected more than any other class.

    Also "power thief"? Condi thief was never any good lol I could easily kill them 1v2 in my usual rating.

    No, thief was tolerable in the previous meta. For some time now, 99.99% of thieves aside from top thieves have been pinned into a role where they are only able to +1 and decap. They're never able to team fight due to having low armor and health together that get absolutely dominated by clusters of other players. They aren't able to 1v1 because the classes that go side: warrior, engineer, ranger, elementalist, and guardian are all able to pack more sustain and damage into their builds. The only thing saving thief right now is the stealth that everybody else complains about while thief has medium armor, 11,635 health and virtually one block (that nearly nobody runs) and one invulnerability that gives thieves 2 extra seconds to formulate a plan before ultimately dying or somehow escaping. Thief needs a complete overhaul right now from top to bottom because unless you're these good players: Vallun, Sindrener (or whatever the guys name is) you're simply dragging your thief into a 4v5 that no other profession has to deal with because they are either
    A.) More forgiving
    B.) Brain dead button mashers due to having a lower skill floor and ceiling

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    I agree, thief is still plenty good in nonexistent metas.

    Already explained for recent metas:

    It was pretty good in the meta just before the patch and in scourge/fb meta. It even had a point where you could play S/D, S/P and D/P.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

    no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.
    I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.
    I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Can I ask what your rating is?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Can I ask what your rating is?

    league or gw?
    edit
    in league dia 3 last time I played ( unless decay )
    in gw2 im sitting 27 wins out of 46 games plat 1, 1540 ranking if I recall correctly

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:
    No, thief was tolerable in the previous meta.

    Any other thing you said is debatable or even correct, but this one is just extremely wrong.

    For some time now, 99.99% of thieves aside from top thieves have been pinned into a role where they are only able to +1 and decap. They're never able to team fight due to having low armor and health together that get absolutely dominated by clusters of other players. They aren't able to 1v1 because the classes that go side: warrior, engineer, ranger, elementalist, and guardian are all able to pack more sustain and damage into their builds.

    I agree that thief was mostly +1/decap (except s/p), but is that a problem? This is just how thief plays, why make it a duelist sidenoder or a teamfighter? I don't ask mesmer to be good in teamfights and Anet chose mesmer to be a roamer instead of a sidenoder, so current mesmer is also a decapper/+1 (better +1 and worse mobility).

    Thief needs a complete overhaul right now from top to bottom because unless you're these good players: Vallun, Sindrener (or whatever the guys name is) you're simply dragging your thief into a 4v5 that no other profession has to deal with because they are either
    A.) More forgiving
    B.) Brain dead button mashers due to having a lower skill floor and ceiling

    Well that's because of how the game plays, nobody in their right minds want their class to be easy to play.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But guys if ranger can have insane mobility duel and/roam, why are thieves only allowed to be kitten to the point where they are only a mobility class? Logic demands that just mobility doesn’t equal must be garbage

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    Congratulations! Now realize that power and non-cheese thief hasn't been good for several metas! Then we'll be halfway there

    It was pretty good in the meta just before the patch and in scourge/fb meta. It even had a point where you could play S/D, S/P and D/P.

    Thief is very good or very bad depending on the meta, it's affected more than any other class.

    Also "power thief"? Condi thief was never any good lol I could easily kill them 1v2 in my usual rating.

    No, thief was tolerable in the previous meta. For some time now, 99.99% of thieves aside from top thieves have been pinned into a role where they are only able to +1 and decap. They're never able to team fight due to having low armor and health together that get absolutely dominated by clusters of other players. They aren't able to 1v1 because the classes that go side: warrior, engineer, ranger, elementalist, and guardian are all able to pack more sustain and damage into their builds. The only thing saving thief right now is the stealth that everybody else complains about while thief has medium armor, 11,635 health and virtually one block (that nearly nobody runs) and one invulnerability that gives thieves 2 extra seconds to formulate a plan before ultimately dying or somehow escaping. Thief needs a complete overhaul right now from top to bottom because unless you're these good players: Vallun, Sindrener (or whatever the guys name is) you're simply dragging your thief into a 4v5 that no other profession has to deal with because they are either
    A.) More forgiving
    B.) Brain dead button mashers due to having a lower skill floor and ceiling

    Except Stealth , they have some survibility:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + Weakness debuff
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant + mobility
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Dagger/Pistol

    But yeah i agree, that Thief needs a buff .
    Lets wait for CMC to inv Vallun, Sindrener and other Thief in the next Balance Prodcast (after the July tournament - before the expansion?)

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • Raider.4283Raider.4283 Member ✭✭

    Mobility doesnt mean much in PVP when you have unkillable opposition sat on nodes. This argument of mobility is so high that thief cant have damage is absured. Stealth doesnt mean unkillable, sneeze hard enough and the thief will be sat on the floor. Alot of L2P issues here.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

    no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.
    I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.
    I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

    Yeah it would! Thief shouldn't be in a state of not being able to down a majority of classes even if +1'ing in a reasonable time. Being able to down a couple glassy builds out of the whole roster because it excels in one thing mobility is not balanced kitten lol. Especially when half the classes share great mobility just not top like thief all while excelling at multiple things so. No one that isn't biased could say that sounds anything close to balanced lol.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raider.4283 said:
    Mobility doesnt mean much in PVP when you have unkillable opposition sat on nodes. This argument of mobility is so high that thief cant have damage is absured. Stealth doesnt mean unkillable, sneeze hard enough and the thief will be sat on the floor. Alot of L2P issues here.

    This^ it's also like people are purposely forgetting while thief has top mobility a lot of other classes would rate as having great mobility all while excelling at multiple things. But we don't like thief so hold it to different set of standards and call it balance lol

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    Thief Profession certainly doesn't need buffs. Because at the moment, they still remain Toxic to the well being of the game balance and not matter how many 'nerfs' they received, they will always remain so. Having 8 years with a Toxic Bad Design Stealth Mechanic with other Toxic mechanics and unhealthy skills...something must be done.

    They simply need a complete Profession redesign either with a complete new stealth redesign and to make stealth mechanic accessible solely to them or to remove stealth completely from the game.

    Thief Profession had the potential of being a beautiful extraordinary unique Profession as Mesmer Profession in Guild Wars 1. Just as Mesmer Profession, Thief Profession had everything good coming for it with being the next Assassin Profession in Guild Wars 1 and Mesmer Profession being a continuation of Gwen honor and fond memory of saving Tyria....all were replace in the honor of Toxicity-

    Guild Wars 1 message was clear-

    Guild War 2 message to Thief Profession-

    Being Flawless, Blameless, God-Like Image, Having Immunity To Escape Death, Having It All, With Perfection Are What Make You Beautiful

    =The Death Of Thief Profession-

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

    no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.
    I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.
    I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

    Yeah it would! Thief shouldn't be in a state of not being able to down a majority of classes even if +1'ing in a reasonable time. Being able to down a couple glassy builds out of the whole roster because it excels in one thing mobility is not balanced kitten lol. Especially when half the classes share great mobility just not top like thief all while excelling at multiple things so. No one that isn't biased could say that sounds anything close to balanced lol.

    +1 means fighting 2v1, glass mesmer gets downed 1v1 to thief but can absolutely put up a fight, maybe escape or even win, in 2v1 it gets obliterated, thief is really close where it needs to be, problem is that other classes are far of where they need to be.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

    Wouldn't that advantage of arriving earlier to +1 be offset by the lack of damage and thus longer fight while +1ing? When just running for decap or cap it is different story thief can be ultra fast.

    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I agree with this.
    My POV. I started playing about month ago and picked thief as first class, because I like sneaky staby archetype. And I am in general fine with role of the decap guy and picking of enemies who are trying to disengage with low HP or are the squishier professions. However some builds/professions seems, dare I say, too tanky. At my lol noob skill level (silver), I have troubles with rangers, bc they have more HP, some sort of HP buffer, Block, evade, stealth and appareantly lot of cleanses. I cant even kite them properly bc they are rangers and all the time I am being hit by the pet. My only chance is to surprise them by playing P/D, not D/P like everybody and their dog, which confuses them so they forgot to push the healing button or whatever they have xD (as I said silver )

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GeneralFailure.3402 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

    Wouldn't that advantage of arriving earlier to +1 be offset by the lack of damage and thus longer fight while +1ing? When just running for decap or cap it is different story thief can be ultra fast.

    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I agree with this.
    My POV. I started playing about month ago and picked thief as first class, because I like sneaky staby archetype. And I am in general fine with role of the decap guy and picking of enemies who are trying to disengage with low HP or are the squishier professions. However some builds/professions seems, dare I say, too tanky. At my lol noob skill level (silver), I have troubles with rangers, bc they have more HP, some sort of HP buffer, Block, evade, stealth and appareantly lot of cleanses. I cant even kite them properly bc they are rangers and all the time I am being hit by the pet. My only chance is to surprise them by playing P/D, not D/P like everybody and their dog, which confuses them so they forgot to push the healing button or whatever they have xD (as I said silver )

    what I ment mostly is immagine 1v1 on far node, same build same skill players, they are in a stalemate.
    thief and rev races there, thief arrives 5s earlier, by the time rev is there, you didnt kill, you didnt do much damage, but your CC, boonrip and some dmg that you did forces enough cooldows that even if they turn and try to 2v2 they are at a disadvantage.
    You dont have to kill, sometimes all you need to do is scare enemy off from the point for 5s, let your ally cap/decap and leave them in the 1v1. Now the enemy is pressured to risk their lives to push them off in 1v1.
    You dont have to comit to fights all that much, you see someone vunerable? pressure, they fight back? good chance they burned important cooldowns, back off and go decap/cap. If you force ranger to use elite ( 60s cd ) and sicem ( 35s cd ) and all you do is sb5 away 2-3 times even tho you are then one to run away you actually won the exchange. If you are not fully commited to thief you might try power rev, their styles are close to one another.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    The point of a highly mobile low sustain +1 class is to have a quick burst to burst the opponent down during the +1 engagement along side ur teamates. U joining ur teammate and +1'ing for them does little if it still takes forever, might as well just take few sec longer to get there and burst it down on another class that actually bursts while actually contributing other things.
    A thief that uses his mobility to find +1's should bursting with their teamates to make quick work of them not oh here's our thief glad he helped poke my opponent with his toothpick, really helped.
    Are u guys seriously trying to peg thief as a class not designed to be a high burst/mobility class?
    I've never in 30 yrs gaming heard such a silly claim that a low health/armor class shouldn't have burst or sustain dps cuz it has mobility lol especially when its intended to quickly join and burst classes down that are otherwise engaged with ur teamates. Such a ludicrous claim is laughable.
    All this really boils down to is oh no we dont want thief to do damage again and challenge us again,we want it to tickles us so we can get revenge on it for all the yrs we got out played by one lol.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @GeneralFailure.3402 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

    Wouldn't that advantage of arriving earlier to +1 be offset by the lack of damage and thus longer fight while +1ing? When just running for decap or cap it is different story thief can be ultra fast.

    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I agree with this.
    My POV. I started playing about month ago and picked thief as first class, because I like sneaky staby archetype. And I am in general fine with role of the decap guy and picking of enemies who are trying to disengage with low HP or are the squishier professions. However some builds/professions seems, dare I say, too tanky. At my lol noob skill level (silver), I have troubles with rangers, bc they have more HP, some sort of HP buffer, Block, evade, stealth and appareantly lot of cleanses. I cant even kite them properly bc they are rangers and all the time I am being hit by the pet. My only chance is to surprise them by playing P/D, not D/P like everybody and their dog, which confuses them so they forgot to push the healing button or whatever they have xD (as I said silver )

    what I ment mostly is immagine 1v1 on far node, same build same skill players, they are in a stalemate.
    thief and rev races there, thief arrives 5s earlier, by the time rev is there, you didnt kill, you didnt do much damage, but your CC, boonrip and some dmg that you did forces enough cooldows that even if they turn and try to 2v2 they are at a disadvantage.
    You dont have to kill, sometimes all you need to do is scare enemy off from the point for 5s, let your ally cap/decap and leave them in the 1v1. Now the enemy is pressured to risk their lives to push them off in 1v1.
    You dont have to comit to fights all that much, you see someone vunerable? pressure, they fight back? good chance they burned important cooldowns, back off and go decap/cap. If you force ranger to use elite ( 60s cd ) and sicem ( 35s cd ) and all you do is sb5 away 2-3 times even tho you are then one to run away you actually won the exchange. If you are not fully commited to thief you might try power rev, their styles are close to one another.

    What u just described sounds ridiculous though so a class with lowest hp/armor and great mobility should be delegated to a role of decapping and +1 engagements ur teamates are stale mating on and instead of the thief bursting the player down pretty quickly with ur teammate instead they should so very little burst damage but help with their cc etc, the same things another class could provide better as well as burst and sustained damage at a whole 3 secs later,cuz maps arnt that big in conquest and most classes have good to great mobility aside from necro.
    Yeah sounds great for a low hp/armor class lol.
    Theres a reason every class in every mmo that has low hp/armor is high burst AND mobility. Burst makes up for not having hp/armor to stay in fight for long,mobility to get to a fight fast or get out of fight fast.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    Thief Profession certainly doesn't need buffs. Because at the moment, they still remain Toxic to the well being of the game balance and not matter how many 'nerfs' they received, they will always remain so. Having 8 years with a Toxic Bad Design Stealth Mechanic with other Toxic mechanics and unhealthy skills...something must be done.

    They simply need a complete Profession redesign either with a complete new stealth redesign and to make stealth mechanic accessible solely to them or to remove stealth completely from the game.

    Thief Profession had the potential of being a beautiful extraordinary unique Profession as Mesmer Profession in Guild Wars 1. Just as Mesmer Profession, Thief Profession had everything good coming for it with being the next Assassin Profession in Guild Wars 1 and Mesmer Profession being a continuation of Gwen honor and fond memory of saving Tyria....all were replace in the honor of Toxicity-

    Guild Wars 1 message was clear-

    Guild War 2 message to Thief Profession-

    Being Flawless, Blameless, God-Like Image, Having Immunity To Escape Death, Having It All, With Perfection Are What Make You Beautiful

    =The Death Of Thief Profession-

    They are not gonna give thief a redesign ever, if the made a thief without invisibility, shsdowsteps WITH returns etc it would be so similar to shiro rev I'd be redundant. As it stands I can attest power shiro feels like a better thief, yeah it's hard to do well on and takes some time on the build but I'm new on it and already feels more effective, hell even if the buff thief's burst I doubt I'll go back to the 2 button spam hit other 2 in niche circumstances that all thief weapons suffer from, its nice change having a rotation that requires most if not all my skills. Spamming same few got boring after all these yrs.
    My luck shiro will have its burst nerfed again.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

    Archer in bdo?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2020

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

    Archer in bdo?

    Ninja far closer to the thiefs archetype design, hows it designed? Oh top single target burst, extremely good mobility and bad support and team fighting, invisibility and teleports etc, sound familiar except top single target burst of course :)

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

    Archer in bdo?

    Ninja far closer to the thiefs archetype design, hows it designed? Oh top single target burst and bad support and team fighting, invisibility etc, sound familiar except top single target burst of course :)

    U said glassy but yeah ninja is probably closer to thief design. Best 1v1 class in bdo from what I’ve heard