The Death of Thief - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

The Death of Thief

1235712

Comments

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    https://imgur.com/gallery/dzJncPB
    this is the test I got.
    Thing to note.
    1 I forgot to mug, and due to that I missed many dmg modifiers.
    stealing inflicts -> poison,weakness, potentially confusion. that is 4-6% dmg from exposed weakness 6-8% with even the odds, should have taken it insead of revealed I think.
    3-4% dmg from compounding sigil
    3 might from thrill of crime
    I would also gain fury,might,swiftness,vigor that gives extra 2% dmg from enhancement sigil.
    Target above 50% so no executioner
    I also think i wasnt incombat so no lead attacks -> unsure of that one.

    Well, I did expect a max damage build. Those arent really playable, you see what happened to Vallun when he tried a (slightly less max damage) version. Anyway, even with those modifiers added (rough math here), that shouldnt add any more than around 8% damage. Thats around 8k damage total. Even with a max damage build, thats only just above a third of the golems hp. Its also less than a single grenade barrage.

    Until you do the Barrage (0.5 sec cast time) , he can do 4 auto attacks for an extra 3000 damage(istant-istant--0,25-istant) , which scales with those modifiers > so they become 12k burst on Heavy targets .combined on the backstab
    Which he can repeat it with every stealth , but you have 1x Grenade Barrgage :P

    So you where wrong about thief burst :P

    Ive never seen someone so undeterred by their lack of knowledge about thief. The Dagger autoattacks are much, much slower than that. The whole sequence is 1.68 seconds. So you cant include it. Sorry. Wrong as always.

    They dont have internal global cd global cd (wait 0.25) before they can do the other attack :P
    Before the culling ( you go in stealth 0,15 after the execute the stealth combo > and you are releaved 0,15 after) you are already in the second ayto attack

    Global ... cooldown? This is GW2, not WoW. There is no global cooldown. And the rest is just your typical rambling nonsense, so I will ignore it.

    So thief cannot burst , that you proclaimed all thise time , is wrong :P
    You should have listened to be and not use defensive traiits :P

    Oh no, its still correct. That build is still unplayable. And you know why I didnt listen to you? You are wrong about everything. I dont listen to wrong things.

    What is correct ?
    You add up to the Mesmers The Mirror Blade +Mind stab + other 0,5 sec cast time spells to their Burst .

    I dont add Mind Stab. Or any cast time spells other than mirror blade, which gets pre-cast in stealth. I only add together damage that all happens in an instant. Since, you know, thats the point.

    And just happen to forget that auto attacks can help add up the to the damage ?

    Autoattacks arent part of the instant burst. If I wanted to add those, I would stuff like Mind Stab to Mesmer. But then the damage gap gets even bigger in Mesmers favour.

    You are not correct . You where never :P THta why we argue about ''Myopia'' :P

    You really love that word. You heard it once ,thought it sounded smart, and tried to use it as much as possible, even when it makes no sense to use it. Im sorry to say, but it doesnt sound smart. It just makes you look like a fool.

    a)If they precasted Mind stab +Mirror blade , then you know where the mesmers is , why you whined about Mesmers doing ''cannot'' dodge dmage in the Mesmers thread ?

    Out of combat stealth.

    b) auto attacka are part of the rotation . Mind stab has a cd .

    Doesnt matter, you dont burst every second.

    1) You can avoid those 2 spells out of combat . Both are 0.5 sec cst time . They cannot use for the Burst stealth for istant undodgable damage , that you said in the past

    You cant avoid them if you dont know the Mesmer is there. Say, for example if they used out of combat stealth.

    2) Wott ? If you avoid those 2x 0,5 cast spells , you halved the damage of the Mesmer , So its burst lies at 9k also :P

    Which you cant. Its burst is much higher.

    3) Thief cant burst :P

    It indeed cant reasonably burst. But you and your grade-school level lies are getting tiresome.

    1) Mesmers have 3 sec stealth . Whch both have high cd . We talked about it

    Which doesnt matter since you dont burst that often. We indeed talked about it. You refused to learn anything, as you always do.

    2) Its more avoidable . 2 spells are 0.5 cast time . Avoiding those halves their damage
    Its like Death's Judgment 0,5 sec cast

    Death's Judgment is super telegraphed. Mirror Blade from stealth is not telegraphed at all. One can be easily avoided. The other cant be avoided at all.

    3)t indeed can reasonably burst. But you and your grade-school level lies are getting tiresome
    I WILL GO TO UNERVISITY THISE YEAR YOU KNOW ! YOU DONT HAVE TO PICK ME FOR MY grade-school STUFF !

    I predict you will have trouble given your tendency to not learn anything.

    4) After the Backstab and the enemy is Feared for 1sec , why wouldnt anyone use auto attack to boost their dps on a cc-ed target !

    Stunbreak/condi cleanse. The enemy is no longer feared. Besides, were talking instant damage here. If you want to include more, I could slap on damage on the Mesmer as well. It just goes further into the Mesmers favour.

    1) You are saying NOW that Mesmers went out of combat and you got bursted .
    Its 3 sec . What out of combat stealth ? He was there 3 sec away from you .

    ... you do know that you usually burst when you engage a new target? They didnt "go out of combat", they were out of combat by default.

    2) If he used Mirror Blade or Mind Stab in stealth , he would be unstealth and he wouldnt do the rest of the combo in stealth

    Lets add Mesmer to "pile of things you have not even the faintest clue about". Let me explain how the combo works. So, the way it works is you engage in stealth. You pre-cast Mirror Blade while you get into melee range of the enemy. Then you use power spike, have the mirror blade hit and use mind wrack all in an instant. The entire combo happens instantly out of stealth. Its like backstab. Do you understand now?

    3) Even if he did stunbreaks , you would have time to continue the auto attack sequience . Thats thiefs where doing when they use Basilisk Poison in the old days , They didn stop at Backstab and then took a break , even if was stunbreaked

    The thieves didnt use backstab much in the old days. And if he stunbreaks and pops active defense or CCs you, you dont get to continue the autoattack sequence. Thats why its not counted amongst the instant stuff.

    8k + leach + 3k auto attacks =11k burst for a spec that in daredevil spec has 30% damage reduction +weakness + dash

    Damage is lower than that, auto attacks are not included in burst, the damage reduction doesnt matter. You know what, Im just not even gonna bother. You refuse to learn. You have 0 clue about anything about thief. Every single thing you say is categorically completely wrong, and yet you refuse to learn. Talking to you is a waste of time, because you revel in your ignorance. Maybe university will be able to make you learn finally. Otherwise, you will struggle.

    1) You whined that Mesmers could brust you in stealth and it was un-dodgable . If he used either Mind Stab or other 0,5 sec spec , he would get unstealth .
    2) And all of theses spells have a cast time , they add up to a 2 sec burst , far more than stealthy-un-dodgable as you proclaimed
    3) THEIFS DIDNT USE THE BACKSTAB ....AHAHAHAAHAHAAAH !!!
    I am sorry mister 28 Agust 2018 for a sec i beilieved you .
    Bastack + auto attack to maximize the damage in the 1,5 sec rotation , was used since 2012
    4) So a Mesmer can use 6-7 spell , that has 0,5 sec cast time and the Thief will only use Backstab and nothing else ?
    And having 11k burst + 30% damage reduction is irrelevant ?? ahaahahahahahaahahhaahahah , this is why i love you !

    You have 0 clue about anything about thief. Every single thing you say is categorically completely wrong, and yet you refuse to learn. Talking to you is a waste of time, because you revel in your ignorance. Maybe university will be able to make you learn finally. Otherwise, you will struggle.

    Mr/Ms Ncsoft, the West is weakened leaving space for new games(asian too). I know the ManaWo..ggs
    used the RnD Labs as testing ground,but can you let them be alone and not DMCA their video?
    Sincerely humble Butler, willigly letting his body to be exploited , or find another master -crystal ball

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

    no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.
    I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.
    I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

    The problem is that thief struggles to not just kill the full bunker builds, but even regular ones. You wont be obliterated without counterplay. The only part that has no counterplay is backstab (which is a problem, but I digress). That backstab will not hit you harder than, at the very most, 6k. Usually closer 4-5k. Your Wizard Mesmer has, what, over 20k hp? Thats less than a fourth of your health, and thats the majority of thieves damage, it just tapers off hard from there. So thief should be less than a gnat even to you.

    that would be true if thief just backstabed and thats it, there is backstab, mug, hearthseeker, followup autos before bugged model registers, venoms etc etc.
    and this is from the stuff that doesnt allow me to fight back, 1/3-1/2 is EASY taken from me insta from stealth, if not from stealth and hearth->mug->stab its usually over half HP but it is somewhat telegraphed.

    Mug does very little damage now. But sure, lets add that. Venoms and Siphoning are included in the damage as is. Heartseeker however? No. We said exclusively about things that have no counterplay. Heartseeker is a 0.75 second cast time skill. You absolutely can avoid the damage. Thats not "instant". And autos after that are even slower. So, doesnt really change anything. You still take about a quarter of your health at most before you can react.

    So no, just the stuff that doesnt allow you to fight back is backstab and its modifiers. Its a quarter of your health, or less, instant from stealth. Not 1/3, and certainly not even close to 1/2. And no, even heartseeker into mug into stab is not even close to 1/2 hp.

    actually, skilled thief could time destealth with smoke field to leave stealth mid Heartseeker jump, so that it restealths instantly.
    that way HS is covered in stealth, at the end of its cast it leaves stealth -> mug->HS connects-> it stealths you ->backstab->1-2 basics before anyone can react.
    but that would take learning the timing, who needs that

    EDIT
    tested to make sure it works, it works 100% of the time I get the timing right.
    with assassins signet ( not activated to make it easy to do )
    scholar rune
    berserker amulet
    daredevil -> so still 13,3-13,5k HP
    I can take about 45%-50% from tough golem HP with HS+Backstab only.
    Extra dmg with followup autos or when used with signet the dmg would be bigger.
    sure hope I didnt just create new cancer lol

    I'm not gonna say anything crude. I'm just going to say that you obviously know what attack chain is coming because the thief has to approach you out of stealth and you don't dodge to avoid the damage? that sounds like a you problem from poor gameplay buddy

    following your logic when thief uses basic ability to stealth for 3s or 12s I should constantly keep dodgin?
    I dont think me and my 1 dodge can handle it friend

    No you should figure out how to play better. If you dodge the chain and the thief uses his steal, then he can't use it for about 20 seconds. Within those 20 seconds, use a block or be prepared to fight. Simple. Fighting a thief isn't rocket science, you guys just have a low skill level.

    someone is overly upset their hypermobile burst no counterplay unkillabe permastealth builds aint op no more :/

    I mean, the sPvP version wasnt Permastealth. It also wasnt "unkillable" unless you mean "Always runs away before someone can damage them" by that. Counterplay was on the lower end, but the damage was low to compensate (not as low as now, but low nonetheless). The build was not really op, it was the same thief had been since pre-HoT with a couple pauses in HoT. A build carried by Shortbow 5.

    build like these keep MANY builds out of viability, I liked scepter/axe over staff condi mes, but the moment thief uses build like this i HAVE to use staff perma protection bull build or thief comes out of stealth and chunks for 60-70% of my HP every 5-6s. only form of counterplay is being tanky enough to sustain through the bursts to facetanky levels

    I mean if you cant survive a thief, you cant exactly survive a Rev or a Mesmer or anyone else either. There is no way a thief should be able to instantly chunk you for even 50% of your hp, even pre-patch. Yes, the backstab had low counterplay. Not a question, out of combat stealth is stupid and I wouldnt shed a tear if it got hit somehow. However, that backstab, even with mug, even with the leeching effects, would not exceed 8k damage on a normal build on a squishy target. Usually it would be less. That part you indeed cannot avoid. But what follows, you can avoid. For that matter, protection doesnt help you unless you have it before the thief strikes (which I dont believe Mesmer can do). But yes, if thief wouldve kept the build out of viability, it already was unviable thanks to the much stronger burst and sustained damage classes.

    nah, i could 1v1 revs, I could 1v1 warriors, I could 1v1 rangers and holos. but against thief there wasnt even fighting back allowed, if enemy team took thief or 2 im forced into undeath runes, rabid amulet and perma prot build or I risk constantly losing 50%+ hp from stealth every 5-6s.

    That ... sorry Im just gonna say, thats completely unbelievable. I can believe that thief would give you trouble if you were playing condi mirage precisely because of consume plasma (I mean it is kinda bonkers). But there is absolutely no way you would lose 50% hp, let alone more, from stealth, even if you had 0 toughness. Maybe if you had 0 toughness and 0 vitality and the thief was playing a higher damage build like Crit Strikes (that would be worse in general), maybe then. But even then, you get burst once, and then the thief wont be able to burst again until he gets out of combat, stealths up in a safe spot, and comes running to you, which is a lot more than 5-6 seconds.

    But yes, even then, if thief did that much burst damage, then Rev shouldve just obliterated you instantly. No build that was unviable because of thief wouldve been viable anyway. Or rather, it was unviable because of thief. It was unviable because it couldnt handle burst, not even from the lowest burst damage class running around.

    its not the plasma, he can engage from stealth and freely restealth with every smokefield, and there is nothing I can do.

    Now, I admit Im no expert on Condi Mirage by any means. I played it for a bit and found it incredibly boring. But, even so, Im pretty sure a number of Mirage attacks can punish the Thief with ease for trying to stealth up mid-combat. The phantasmal axes track through through stealth, Axes of symmetry still hit him, clones have a bad habit of attacking through stealth for an oddly long amount of time (this one might be a bug, iunno) and shatters track through stealth. I cant see any way for you to be unable to punish him.

    no aoe to prevent, projectiles get blocked, in fact they could just flop the field and deny me entire point ( most didnt know that lul ) becouse most condi mes damage was projectiles

    Only the utility smokescreen blocks projectile, BP doesnt. They can only use that utility once. If you can survive through it, you should be fine.

    thief vs mesmer is not only because of plasma, mesmer survives by kiting and evading attacks, thief has ways to make their attacks almost unavoidable and can stick to mesmer, staff 2, jaunt, blink... are really strong when it comes to fightning warrior or necro but against thief they are half useless, all plasma does is a middle finger after a slap.

    Thief doesnt have any way to make their attacks any less avoidable. Well, other than stealth, but you cant go into stealth mid-combat without getting blasted. Thief also had a pretty hard time sticking to you mid-combat if you used active evades, since they only good way, Shadowshot, doesnt work if it misses. Same with blinds, actually.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 if thief stealths thats it, and stealths takes less then 1s to happen.
    shatters and most attacks have to be used before thief stealths, and smokescreen is absolute immunity
    thief attacks are harder to avoid with mobility, you use an attack, I jaunt away, you steal after me, connects anyways, or shadowstep, or signet, depends on the build but thief always finds a way to connect more hits then any other class. There are classes that can blast thief for stealthing but condi mes is not one of them.
    guar? sure, necro? yep, power mes? very hard to do but doable, but cmes absolutely not.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132 if thief stealths thats it, and stealths takes less then 1s to happen.
    shatters and most attacks have to be used before thief stealths, and smokescreen is absolute immunity
    thief attacks are harder to avoid with mobility, you use an attack, I jaunt away, you steal after me, connects anyways, or shadowstep, or signet, depends on the build but thief always finds a way to connect more hits then any other class. There are classes that can blast thief for stealthing but condi mes is not one of them.
    guar? sure, necro? yep, power mes? very hard to do but doable, but cmes absolutely not.

    Stealth takes over a second to happen for everything but concealing restoration. The standard move is BP + Heartseeker, which is 1.25 seconds. Smoke Screen + BP is the same speed. The attacks have to be used before the thief stealths, but do not have to hit before thief stealths. Or even finish casting. They will track through it. Smokescreen does mess up a lot, but you should be able to survive through it.

    Signet wasnt used. Shadowstep is far too valuable to burn on connecting a hit. And steal is usually used for engagin (otherwise you take less opening burst). You should still be able to avoid their hits reasonably well. You also should be able to obliterate the thief given that he struggles heavily with clearing conditions. Also, frankly almost all classes can blast a thief for stealthing, and from my experience of being blasted in stealth as a core Engineer from Condi Mes (using a faster method of stealthing than thief), condi mes is absolutely one of them.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    4 pages of this thread is just 3 people going at each others..lol..

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    4 pages of this thread is just 3 people going at each others..lol..

    He unfortunately has a tendency of repeating the same lie over and over, and doesnt know when to stop.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    4 pages of this thread is just 3 people going at each others..lol..

    He unfortunately has a tendency of repeating the same lie over and over, and doesnt know when to stop.

    If we agreed that Daredevil spec has 30% damage reduction .
    And that damage reduction can be used with Black Powder , to help you survive while you do stealth , we could have end these circula conversations .
    But we both now know we wont :P /show ring , plz marry me !
    I will be the one to ''bent the knee'' in our relatioship :P

    Mr/Ms Ncsoft, the West is weakened leaving space for new games(asian too). I know the ManaWo..ggs
    used the RnD Labs as testing ground,but can you let them be alone and not DMCA their video?
    Sincerely humble Butler, willigly letting his body to be exploited , or find another master -crystal ball

  • Tao.5096Tao.5096 Member ✭✭✭

    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020


    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

    If unexpected ..the burst of a condi thief can down even a tempest support, really depends , with guards I have CoP, a herald could use Glint's heal, even a resistance burst from a war could prevent insta death...it really depends on your build, yes typical meta build can be easily one shot by a condi thief but mostly because meta builds are made for teamplay and not all made for 1v1

    P.S the 3 renegade winning team anyway takes the cake xd, that was glorius hahaha...back to zoo meta

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

    If unexpected ..the burst of a condi thief can down even a tempest support, really depends , with guards I have CoP, a herald could use Glint's heal, even a resistance burst from a war could prevent insta death...it really depends on your build, yes typical meta build can be easily one shot by a condi thief but mostly because meta builds are made for teamplay and not all made for 1v1

    P.S the 3 renegade winning team anyway takes the cake xd, that was glorius hahaha...back to zoo meta

    Even if unexpected it shouldnt be so fast you dont have time to clear at all. It just surprises me because there should be enough clears to contend with it. The triple Renegade win was hilarious however,

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

    If unexpected ..the burst of a condi thief can down even a tempest support, really depends , with guards I have CoP, a herald could use Glint's heal, even a resistance burst from a war could prevent insta death...it really depends on your build, yes typical meta build can be easily one shot by a condi thief but mostly because meta builds are made for teamplay and not all made for 1v1

    P.S the 3 renegade winning team anyway takes the cake xd, that was glorius hahaha...back to zoo meta

    Even if unexpected it shouldnt be so fast you dont have time to clear at all. It just surprises me because there should be enough clears to contend with it. The triple Renegade win was hilarious however,

    I think it's Basilisk + Steal triggering Bewildering Ambush+daze and they still have headshot but yeah...you basically die if you have slow reaction time, either way @Kazeen the condi thief for Cheese mode is good to start with, don't think an average guy would be able to down @Boyce and @Misha on a condi thief

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

    If unexpected ..the burst of a condi thief can down even a tempest support, really depends , with guards I have CoP, a herald could use Glint's heal, even a resistance burst from a war could prevent insta death...it really depends on your build, yes typical meta build can be easily one shot by a condi thief but mostly because meta builds are made for teamplay and not all made for 1v1

    P.S the 3 renegade winning team anyway takes the cake xd, that was glorius hahaha...back to zoo meta

    Even if unexpected it shouldnt be so fast you dont have time to clear at all. It just surprises me because there should be enough clears to contend with it. The triple Renegade win was hilarious however,

    I think it's Basilisk + Steal triggering Bewildering Ambush+daze and they still have headshot but yeah...you basically die if you have slow reaction time, either way @Kazeen the condi thief for Cheese mode is good to start with, don't think an average guy would be able to down @Boyce and @Misha on a condi thief

    Wild. I did know that condi thief did more damage than regular thief, but I would still not have expected this.

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    A condi thief slaughtering all opposition...Cheese Mode defeated even R55, @Boyce and @Bluri got owned by the condi thief...holy ..didn't think it was this powerful, even core ranger dies lol

    Hm, that is surprising. Not so much that R55 would lose to it, their comp looked pretty shaky against condi builds in general, but the fact that it managed to get that far. Are people running fewer condi cleanses and the build is abusing it, or are condi cleanses just not enough to keep up?

    If unexpected ..the burst of a condi thief can down even a tempest support, really depends , with guards I have CoP, a herald could use Glint's heal, even a resistance burst from a war could prevent insta death...it really depends on your build, yes typical meta build can be easily one shot by a condi thief but mostly because meta builds are made for teamplay and not all made for 1v1

    P.S the 3 renegade winning team anyway takes the cake xd, that was glorius hahaha...back to zoo meta

    Even if unexpected it shouldnt be so fast you dont have time to clear at all. It just surprises me because there should be enough clears to contend with it. The triple Renegade win was hilarious however,

    I think it's Basilisk + Steal triggering Bewildering Ambush+daze and they still have headshot but yeah...you basically die if you have slow reaction time, either way @Kazeen the condi thief for Cheese mode is good to start with, don't think an average guy would be able to down @Boyce and @Misha on a condi thief

    Wild. I did know that condi thief did more damage than regular thief, but I would still not have expected this.

    The burst is indeed unexpected, perfect for +1 or to hardcounters builds that lack in strong condi removal and reflect I think, even the core ranger died to it xd, either way the build is not broken OP, it can be countered somehow.

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.
    in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.
    Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.
    As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.
    You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

    I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

    no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

    I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

    there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.
    as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

    Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

    no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.
    I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.
    I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

    The problem is that thief struggles to not just kill the full bunker builds, but even regular ones. You wont be obliterated without counterplay. The only part that has no counterplay is backstab (which is a problem, but I digress). That backstab will not hit you harder than, at the very most, 6k. Usually closer 4-5k. Your Wizard Mesmer has, what, over 20k hp? Thats less than a fourth of your health, and thats the majority of thieves damage, it just tapers off hard from there. So thief should be less than a gnat even to you.

    that would be true if thief just backstabed and thats it, there is backstab, mug, hearthseeker, followup autos before bugged model registers, venoms etc etc.
    and this is from the stuff that doesnt allow me to fight back, 1/3-1/2 is EASY taken from me insta from stealth, if not from stealth and hearth->mug->stab its usually over half HP but it is somewhat telegraphed.

    Mug does very little damage now. But sure, lets add that. Venoms and Siphoning are included in the damage as is. Heartseeker however? No. We said exclusively about things that have no counterplay. Heartseeker is a 0.75 second cast time skill. You absolutely can avoid the damage. Thats not "instant". And autos after that are even slower. So, doesnt really change anything. You still take about a quarter of your health at most before you can react.

    So no, just the stuff that doesnt allow you to fight back is backstab and its modifiers. Its a quarter of your health, or less, instant from stealth. Not 1/3, and certainly not even close to 1/2. And no, even heartseeker into mug into stab is not even close to 1/2 hp.

    actually, skilled thief could time destealth with smoke field to leave stealth mid Heartseeker jump, so that it restealths instantly.
    that way HS is covered in stealth, at the end of its cast it leaves stealth -> mug->HS connects-> it stealths you ->backstab->1-2 basics before anyone can react.
    but that would take learning the timing, who needs that

    EDIT
    tested to make sure it works, it works 100% of the time I get the timing right.
    with assassins signet ( not activated to make it easy to do )
    scholar rune
    berserker amulet
    daredevil -> so still 13,3-13,5k HP
    I can take about 45%-50% from tough golem HP with HS+Backstab only.
    Extra dmg with followup autos or when used with signet the dmg would be bigger.
    sure hope I didnt just create new cancer lol

    I'm not gonna say anything crude. I'm just going to say that you obviously know what attack chain is coming because the thief has to approach you out of stealth and you don't dodge to avoid the damage? that sounds like a you problem from poor gameplay buddy

    following your logic when thief uses basic ability to stealth for 3s or 12s I should constantly keep dodgin?
    I dont think me and my 1 dodge can handle it friend

    No you should figure out how to play better. If you dodge the chain and the thief uses his steal, then he can't use it for about 20 seconds. Within those 20 seconds, use a block or be prepared to fight. Simple. Fighting a thief isn't rocket science, you guys just have a low skill level.

    someone is overly upset their hypermobile burst no counterplay unkillabe permastealth builds aint op no more :/

    I mean, the sPvP version wasnt Permastealth. It also wasnt "unkillable" unless you mean "Always runs away before someone can damage them" by that. Counterplay was on the lower end, but the damage was low to compensate (not as low as now, but low nonetheless). The build was not really op, it was the same thief had been since pre-HoT with a couple pauses in HoT. A build carried by Shortbow 5.

    build like these keep MANY builds out of viability, I liked scepter/axe over staff condi mes, but the moment thief uses build like this i HAVE to use staff perma protection bull build or thief comes out of stealth and chunks for 60-70% of my HP every 5-6s. only form of counterplay is being tanky enough to sustain through the bursts to facetanky levels

    Well like all the thief haters have pointed out on this thread, have you tried switching to a profession that isnt so heavily countered by thief? Or would you like to limit yourself to just having all that damage, and limited mobility just to die?

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

    Medium armour is better than light armour still. And people do run Marauders Resilience so youre closer to 15k hp.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

    Medium armour is better than light armour still. And people do run Marauders Resilience so youre closer to 15k hp.

    I'm not quite sure what the meta is for everybody else, but running Marauder's Resilience over Escapist's Fortitude is already absolutely criminal. Even Brawler's Tenacity is better.

    Regardless, that's a big if considering it's a trait line. It's not automatic of itself so it can be considered, but it's not a given.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    i was deciding if i was just was going to start a new thread or to find a thread to this sad experience. So i decided to post this here since it specifies Thief Profession. I don't know why this was new to me but for some reasons, it did. Perhaps maybe it has been a very long time since ive experienced it, perhaps so??

    While I was helping the Commander with the squad to overtake a enemy camp, i noticed there was another Commander on the map who was already there. I departed from the squad to take a look to see if i can help that commander as well. When i arrived, that Commander had a small group with her so i helped her for a bit than returned to the Commander.

    Few minutes later, that Commander called for help in the map chat and again i disparted to help her...than returned to the Commander with the squad.
    Than about 5 minutes later, she called for help, she said in map, 'why doesn't anyone want to come to join me?' something like that along the line.

    I then disparted to help that Commander knowing the Values and Respect i have for Commanders. As i was heading to help her, there were several responses in the map chat that were hurtful. I was 10 seconds to to her location, she waypoint to the main camp keep.

    She still had her tag on, and i tried to assure her that it was ok and to not bother with their comments. She said that it was ok and as she was speaking, i noticed that she was a Thief Profession player

    It was all because she was a Thief Profession player.....as she tried to not be hurt. Our conversation lasted for few minutes than she tagged down and went away,

    Afterward, i stood there for few minutes trying to hold myself together, trying to see put all the pieces together.

    She later P.M to say Thank You! for Caring about helping her with the party she had who took off after i left and that shes used to it and that is ok'

    Thief Profession being a Toxic Bad Design should not be reason to treat them unfairly with hurtful words nor to be discriminated against or to completely be ignored...especially for being a Commander.

    -that is all- :(

    what did i just read

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

    Medium armour is better than light armour still. And people do run Marauders Resilience so youre closer to 15k hp.

    I'm not quite sure what the meta is for everybody else, but running Marauder's Resilience over Escapist's Fortitude is already absolutely criminal. Even Brawler's Tenacity is better.

    Regardless, that's a big if considering it's a trait line. It's not automatic of itself so it can be considered, but it's not a given.

    Nah, Marauders Resilience is the best one. Escapists Fortitude had its healing nerfed too much, and the condi clear isnt enough to make you able to withstand repeated condi bursts.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nobody expected condi thief so nobody specced into cleansing.
    I'm sad I can't play because of ping issues because the mesmer build I use would be very strong vs "condi thief-renegade meta" up to P2 I think. Tested prepatch: they got nerfed, I didn't.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

    Medium armour is better than light armour still. And people do run Marauders Resilience so youre closer to 15k hp.

    I'm not quite sure what the meta is for everybody else, but running Marauder's Resilience over Escapist's Fortitude is already absolutely criminal. Even Brawler's Tenacity is better.

    Regardless, that's a big if considering it's a trait line. It's not automatic of itself so it can be considered, but it's not a given.

    Nah, Marauders Resilience is the best one. Escapists Fortitude had its healing nerfed too much, and the condi clear isnt enough to make you able to withstand repeated condi bursts.

    Between the one signet, Shadowstep and Escapist's. I can fight nearly any condi build with less of a problem for sure. You should try it out with the new condi meta

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Tao.5096 said:
    Dreams came true.

    People wanted this for years.

    All classes do 360 AoE constantly, and Thief with 15k hp with Berserker's Amulet hit for less than Guardian's Mace with Mender's Amulet.

    And people still complain about Shortbow and Stealth xD

    11,645 health actually. Lowest health pool and toughness possible.

    Medium armour is better than light armour still. And people do run Marauders Resilience so youre closer to 15k hp.

    I'm not quite sure what the meta is for everybody else, but running Marauder's Resilience over Escapist's Fortitude is already absolutely criminal. Even Brawler's Tenacity is better.

    Regardless, that's a big if considering it's a trait line. It's not automatic of itself so it can be considered, but it's not a given.

    Nah, Marauders Resilience is the best one. Escapists Fortitude had its healing nerfed too much, and the condi clear isnt enough to make you able to withstand repeated condi bursts.

    Between the one signet, Shadowstep and Escapist's. I can fight nearly any condi build with less of a problem for sure. You should try it out with the new condi meta

    Trust me, you wouldnt last long against condi rev. They apply something like 3+ conditions every other second. Escapists Fortitude just cant keep up. And thats why people dont run it.

  • Sekai.2987Sekai.2987 Member ✭✭

    well after over 1k people saw it live on stream with teapot and even more now with posted here i think its obvious how good condi thief is and its not anymore about "thief is dead" but more about people dont want to change their playstyle, this also means to change from power to condition dmg if its necessary and if its simply the better build until the next balance patch, dont cling to your old build guys

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sekai.2987 said:
    well after over 1k people saw it live on stream with teapot and even more now with posted here i think its obvious how good condi thief is and its not anymore about "thief is dead" but more about people dont want to change their playstyle, this also means to change from power to condition dmg if its necessary and if its simply the better build until the next balance patch, dont cling to your old build guys

    I mean tbh, noone exactly called condi thief being good before today. Hell, even now Im not sure how much its condi thief being good, and how much its people being unprepared for it. Besides, condi thief is a different playstyle, and a boring one at that.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    Nobody expected condi thief so nobody specced into cleansing.
    I'm sad I can't play because of ping issues because the mesmer build I use would be very strong vs "condi thief-renegade meta" up to P2 I think. Tested prepatch: they got nerfed, I didn't.

    "Nobody speced into cleansing" oh you know except for the double prot holo with insane condition conversion, and misha with elusive mind over infinite horizon.

    // Yanim

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wow another braindead condi thief build? why people don't realize how thief is cheese at core
    only thief that takes skill is the ones that required to play the macro game

    tHieF iS dEaD

    I used to give no opinion on "thieves are sheeps", but now I am convinced they really are.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    if you want to do damage, give up your mobility and stealth. simple.

    No it's simple that THAT isnt a rule at all any further than some forum posters opinions on such. They indeed can have high burst, mobility and stealth while being squishy so...

    if you have stealth and mobility and high burst, it does not matter how squishy you are. You either one-shot or disengage and vanish at will. Squishiness does not even matter.

    Thief is broken and should not even be allowed in pvp or wvw until stealth is removed - or has some massive, REAL drawbacks.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief is in a weird place. It went from high mobility high risk high reward to -> high mobility high sustain you can't kill me but I can't kill you.

    Thief play style is like that of a fly right now:

    • It moves real fast and randomly
    • It gets all up in your face with low damage
    • It can't kill you but it pisses you off
    • So you get enraged and try to chase it
    • But it's too fast and you can't catch it while it runs away
    • Eventually you #$%^ up and stub your toe on something and the fly wins

    ^ That is for real what Thief play is right now. It doesn't beat you directly. It beats you by goading you into doing stupid things.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:
    4 pages of this thread is just 3 people going at each others..lol..

    Every multiplayer game ever.

    The Swamp Witch of Godslost

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    This is really funny cause every thief main is being melodramatic, OU NOWS, thief can't oneshot people anymore like the last kitten patch and get all points. It is not even benched like most professions when they get the nerf bat, it is still meta. It is not like the previous season thieves were forcing people deeper in the bunker role since you couldn't catch up to them and they did hyper damage, thieves had their fun but now "ou my the turntables", everyone is on some type of bunker build, it is not like it wasn't expected.Thief meta just sucks for everyone else.
    I don't see much whining from warriors since they are kinda meh this patch, not bad, not good but still kinda there doing their thing , but then again rolling core necro or fb would probably be better.
    Calm your mammaries the current bunker builds would get a shave and thief will be able to stab them to death again, it is not like there aren't viable builds for thief.

    name a viable non-cheese build for thief.

    Well i can't cause the class is kinda cheese by default. Maybe they will make the next elite non cheese.

    Okay, now name a viable build for thief that uses cheese. I'll make it easier for you.

    Here you go https://metabattle.com/wiki/Thief, https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/thief. It is really funny cause there are allot of builds for thief on metabatlle and then looked at warrior having 2 which are kinda the same, lol. I think only engi had more builds listed then thief.

    I looked at those for 30 seconds and I can tell you right now that none of those builds are doing anything but showcasing my point further. They're simple +1 and decapping builds. None of them are winning a single 1v1.

    Well i ain't seeing warriors winning teamfights or reapers winning 1v1 welcome to the pigeonholed club your class is bad at something by design.

    The more you talk with thieves or mesmers..the more you realize how much they are affected by a god complex, it's like they're out of touch with reality..they're asking for a build that snip-snap around the map at will, engage/disengage equally at will and ofc be able to 1v1 and win against anybody.....really

    no. i'm asking to do damage. With every comment i'm bringing yall legit points. You guys are bringing opinions. I want a build that doesn't feel like tickles to a clown. Instead I do 500 damage an autoattack or 5k a Backstab. All while being the easiest profession to kill. I'm not asking for more than other professions. I'm asking for the bare minimum.

    if you want to do damage, give up your mobility and stealth. simple.

    No it's simple that THAT isnt a rule at all any further than some forum posters opinions on such. They indeed can have high burst, mobility and stealth while being squishy so...

    if you have stealth and mobility and high burst, it does not matter how squishy you are. You either one-shot or disengage and vanish at will. Squishiness does not even matter.

    It does matter, in that there is a certain amount of time before you can swap to shortbow 5 and run away. But usually you dont die in that certain amount of time.

    Thief is broken and should not even be allowed in pvp or wvw until stealth is removed - or has some massive, REAL drawbacks.

    I dont get why people fixate on stealth that much, especially in the context of the underperforming in-combat stealth. For that matter ,thief has massive real drawbacks already. The fact that they cant ever fight anyone. Theyre exclusively a +1 and decap class. If their team doesnt facilitate their plays, they are completely useless.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    'Core Thief & Mesmer - Plague Edition'

    The Conditions.....UNBELIEVABLE!!

    -now everyone is jumping-on-board. Why not? Do You Blame Them?-

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭✭

    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    its funny hearing all the mesmers talking how weak mes is, noody's latestvstream was having a bad time playing thief losing rating hard and swapped to mes to climb back up lol

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    Blame the main design concept of thief with initiative , whenever you lower the skill ceiling for the class, you end up with "one hit wonder" builds running all over the place

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

    That's not true u can play a full damage CS p/d build that had gbage clears, or swap swap out trick for SA and run out of ur universal resource after 2 skills. Vids show thief builds can in fact do high damage, to bad their so bad in every other regard thier useless for for the most part, hence why no other class is forced to run ALL damage traits to do decent dps while retaining usefulness lol but its thief so it's good as it is. Thief is especially good for high dps if u trait its 3 min cd thieves guild.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

    That's not true u can play a full damage CS p/d build that had gbage clears, or swap swap out trick for SA and run out of ur universal resource after 2 skills. Vids show thief builds can un fact do high damage, to bad their so bad in every other regard thier useless for for the most part, hence why no other class is forced to run ALL damage traits to do decent dps while retaining usefulness lol but its thief so it's good as it is.

    Know what counters P/D? D/P which is power based.

    Oh and Thieves Guild should not be ran in ranked. No other class is forced to run a 3 minute CD elite just to do decent damage for 30 seconds. You can literally wait it out and then kill the thief pretty easily because thieves have no other backups currently.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement, and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    **Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals. **

    I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    **Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals. **

    I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    **Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals. **

    I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

    your attitude is Toxic

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    **Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals. **

    I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

    +1

    'Madness Of P/D Condition - Thief WvW (Guild Wars 2 Gameplay)'

    • 7 years ago

    • 'Remember when ur on this build of mine do never ever expect to kill ur target as fast as u would as a Backstab( Dmg ) Thief'

    1.) You're talking WvW, we're talking ranked PvP. This obviously isn't your area of expertise.
    2.) That video is SEVEN years old. In 2013 Obama had just been inaugurated into his second term.

    if you need a positive answer, than you need to keep your attitude positive

    I don't want a positive answer from you. I want you to either contribute something thoughtful or leave honestly. And I know I'll get a warning and this comment will get taken down, but all you ever do is post nonsense to support your theories on why thief is the bad guy in situations when it's not even relevant. I'm a college student and if I submitted a paper or homework using your thought processes then I'd expect to fail the class honestly. Like really, say something worthwhile or just go to a different thread

    **Get rid of your Toxic Attitude-Sense of Entitlement and Sense of Inferiority. Toxic Attitude will not help you achieve anything and will only hurt your goals. **

    I'm not toxic. I just don't care for the nonsense that you say.

    your attitude is Toxic

    If you'd like me to be less "toxic" then try saying something relevant, thoughtful and that will contribute to the conversation WE'RE having. Not just the silver tier agendas you're pushing.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

    nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    Oh I almost forgot, the videos are also usually cherry-picked montages typically featuring bad builds.