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The Death of Thief

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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 every forum has that odd guy, i have seen way worse. I actually enjoy his posts form time to time

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132 every forum has that odd guy, i have seen way worse. I actually enjoy his posts form time to time

    I mean he doesnt insult people at least, but it does get tiresome when you have to scrolls past 4 posts full of videos that dont matter to get to the actually worthwhile stuff.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

    nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

    I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

    nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

    I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

    alrighty, lets do it differently.
    tell me how thief changed DESIGN wise since the launch ?
    how initiative system changed?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .
    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

    nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

    I actually do have a question, since I noticed you only have 9,000 AP. Did you actually even play back in 2013? I can promise you Dagger Storm is not the thief skill that's oppressing you as it throws 8 daggers over 3? seconds. I can promise you initiative isn't the problem because most of our initiative is spent on defensive measures instead of offensive. And I can promise you that design wise thief is completely different from 2013 compared to now. If i'm correct, ranked wasn't even a thing in 2013.

    alrighty, lets do it differently.
    tell me how thief changed DESIGN wise since the launch ?
    how initiative system changed?

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kleptomaniac/history
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative/history

    Base initiative for thief has always been 12 and you could trait up for an additional 3 stealth through the trickery traitline. However, initiative was more "expensive" to come by back in 2012-2013. As you can see, skills like Roll For Initiative had a cooldown of 60 seconds way back when as opposed to the 35 second cooldown that it currently has. To make up for initiative being such an expensive commodity to come by, thieves did way more damage back then as opposed to now. Thieves were also (as I have noted) the #1 1v1 profession back then. So as the basics of initiative have been moderately unchanged, the ways that you come by initiative have changed plentiful. While initiative is still hard to come by and skills like Unload that would give u 3 initiative back in pvp for completion now only give 1 initiative back which led to the near demise of P/P thief. As skills have also become more expensive to use in PvP, we have reached a moment in PvP arenas where thieves frequently run out of initiative and unlike the old days when thieves had the damage to climb out of sticky situations, thieves don't do enough damage to win fights nor do they have the same access to initiative that they once had. If this answers your question.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    -Burnfall-

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    -Burnfall-

    "Go Ahead And Log Out For Me Baby"

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Absolutely not true. Shadow Refuge is amazing for stealthing the entire team to begin a game. And it's also not like you can't simply type out your plans as the match begins or between spawns. Shadow Refuge isn't used because Shadow Refuge is absolutely terrible and any thief inside will get absolutely destroyed by AoE from literally every other profession just to go into stealth for like 10 seconds. Not to mention every other profession that has PBAoE reveal like necros and engineers that would laugh in the face of a thief that just went into shadow refuge and got revealed in less than 2 seconds. It turns you into a deer in headlights as you're getting absolutely hammered and have only two options: To stay in the stealth field and get downed, or to bounce and get revealed for 3 seconds where you'll likely also die. I promise you nobody outside of silver uses Shadow Refuge because of every option a thief has, a 60 second CD that functions as a death trap is not the route you want to go in a game so methodical and fast paced now.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    Burnfall is linking videos from 2013 attempting to talk about the state of thief today. If Burnfall wanted to contribute to the conversation that we're having then Burnfall can post a video of thief from within the past 2 months. But from 7 years ago? nah not on this post.

    nothing changed design wise from 2013, if anything its even worse due to dagger storm. He complains about design, I find Initiative as one of the worst designed thing ever personally.

    I mean just the fact that traits were shuffled around completely changed. Or that acrobatics got a lot worse. And eh, initiative is actually a pretty neat design, its the implementation that falls behind. Most builds only have one, maybe 2 buttons worth pressing, which makes thief combat-wise a one-trick pony. Costs are also so prohibitively high that you cant use many skills, so your damage has to come mostly from autoattacks.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .
    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt to an old spec

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    a) Theres is a thing called stream snipe . Where theres a guy that shoutout/streams each person/team and the class they play . So the majority knows what is going on in the final 6 rounds
    b) They are pros , they surely have anticipated the Heavy Condition meta ? Or there isn't at high lvl ? Or mobility+Condition is the issue ?

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    a) Theres is a thing called stream snipe . Where theres a guy that shoutout/streams each person/team and the class they play . So the majority knows what is going on in the final 6 rounds

    And yet they came unprepared. We can debate about the why as we please, I dont think it matters. The fact is, they clearly werent prepared.

    b) They are pros , they surely have anticipated the Heavy Condition meta ? Or there isn't at high lvl ? Or mobility+Condition is the issue ?

    There are certain builds that have condi-cleanses to a ludicrous degree. Those were the meta. So in response the meta was largely power. Meaning people then cut the condi-cleansers. Its a circle, they were just ahead of the curve.

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    It absolutely does, its not even close. It only doesnt if you include "running away" as survivability. But thats frankly nonsense. Outside of that, thief has less passive and active sustain, less active defenses (their blinds are outclassed by engineer who also has invulnerability, reflect and up to 2 blocks), and nothing really to make up for it.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    nope you can change class midgame

    // Yanim

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    nope you can change class midgame

    Did they change that? That used to not be possible.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    nope you can change class midgame

    Did they change that? That used to not be possible.

    are you on gw2 forums literally 24/7? bcs that was an extremely quick answer.

    // Yanim

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    It absolutely does, its not even close. It only doesnt if you include "running away" as survivability. But thats frankly nonsense. Outside of that, thief has less passive and active sustain, less active defenses (their blinds are outclassed by engineer who also has invulnerability, reflect and up to 2 blocks), and nothing really to make up for it.

    You are either able to run away or you must stay and soak up dmg, both methods will allow the player to survive. If you can't run away or soak up dmg there would be no much point in even and that's where the idea of balance kicks in.

    Either way, from what I could gather...thieves want the burst and mobility to be a serious threat and ofc other professions want to play the game so what are the solutions?
    You always have the initiative on thief, if you deal so much dmg that the enemy can't respond..it would be broken, if the enemy hasn't got the sustain to recover after the dmg...it would be just as broken.

    If you ask for other to have enough dmg to "punish" thief when he gets close..well are we forgetting that thief always get to jump on you first? If you trade sustain for dmg on other professions while not having the innate survival tools of thief, you will end up losing all the times.

    I am kinda of confused...what exactly are you asking?

    -If a thief faces the burst spec of another profession then it should win easy, that's the nature of thief ofc
    -If a thief faces a bruiser then it should face a 40/60 chance of victory in favor of the other profession
    -If a thief faces a bunker than it should not die in 1vs1 and only win with a +1

    If you think differently, then try to explain

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet de fromaz

    Its irrelevant. It shows nothing of value in any way shape or form. It shows a build that doesnt exist anymore, using traits that work completely different now, relying on conditions that work completely different now, against enemies that are completely different. It wasnt a "hidden old spec". The new P/D, the one that is completely different, people were aware of it. But it has been generally dismissed due to the abundance of condi cleanses. It seems people in this tournament were unprepared.

    The tactic of go near and CND for stealth and then unload the channeling auto attack , or use the 3rd attack to run away from meeles , haven't changed much since that video .

    Except for the tiny detail, where that isnt the strategy. You dont really use CnD anymore. You use skill 3 then unload. Things have changed a lot.

    Guardians+ Eles (or any1 else) , shouldn't had been unprepared after they die for the 3rd time .
    They are pros , they know how to adapt

    You cant swap builds mid-game. Thats how they were unprepared.

    You can change class (or duplicate of the same class , with slight deviation or a newly character with its ultimate ready to be used (Time Wrap)) ... ehem ...i mean you get dc .... ofc ...
    (why streamers get dc from the game also , when a player change class ?)

    Only before the game starts. If you have no idea their thief is a condi thief, that isnt an option.

    nope you can change class midgame

    Did they change that? That used to not be possible.

    are you on gw2 forums literally 24/7? bcs that was an extremely quick answer.

    I had a loading screen on the game Im playing, might as well be here while waiting.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    It absolutely does, its not even close. It only doesnt if you include "running away" as survivability. But thats frankly nonsense. Outside of that, thief has less passive and active sustain, less active defenses (their blinds are outclassed by engineer who also has invulnerability, reflect and up to 2 blocks), and nothing really to make up for it.

    You are either able to run away or you must stay and soak up dmg, both methods will allow the player to survive. If you can't run away or soak up dmg there would be no much point in even and that's where the idea of balance kicks in.

    Both allow you to survive, but only the latter is survivability. Because if we define the former as survivability, then afking in base is the best method for survivability, and all classes are perfectly balanced.

    Either way, from what I could gather...thieves want the burst and mobility to be a serious threat and ofc other professions want to play the game so what are the solutions?
    You always have the initiative on thief, if you deal so much dmg that the enemy can't respond..it would be broken, if the enemy hasn't got the sustain to recover after the dmg...it would be just as broken.

    I mean "serious threat" in this case means "when the thief +1s, they actually do something other than waste time". Thats the issue with the situation right now. I do agree that thief being a strong duelist, and thief having shortbow 5 is incompatible though. That causes problems in sPvP.

    If you ask for other to have enough dmg to "punish" thief when he gets close..well are we forgetting that thief always get to jump on you first? If you trade sustain for dmg on other professions while not having the innate survival tools of thief, you will end up losing all the times.

    Thief doesnt really have innate survival tools compared to other classes. Their base stats are the second-worst, their healing pathetic, their active defenses bad and their passive defenses non-existant.

    I am kinda of confused...what exactly are you asking?

    -If a thief faces the burst spec of another profession then it should win easy, that's the nature of thief ofc
    -If a thief faces a bruiser then it should face a 40/60 chance of victory in favor of the other profession
    -If a thief faces a bunker than it should not die in 1vs1 and only win with a +1

    That would be nice. In truth, however, right now its:
    -if a thief faces the brust spec of another profession, they lose most of the time unless its exactly condi mesmer because of consume plasma
    - if a thief faces a bruiser then they lose every time
    - if a thief faces a bunker then they die in a 1v1 if they stick around, and with a +1 they can sometimes kill the enemy bunker. And sometimes not.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    I don't understand..you want to play an assassin right?! well an assassin is not a brawler at least not in a MMO. As far as I am concerned , the thief class should be specialized in +1 quick burst to create imbalances during fight and at the same time it should not have the sustain to last in a fight against a spec made for sustain, a burst class like thief should have an assassin spec and a duellist spec ( possibly a support spec ) , the assassin spec superior to other class while the duellist spec inferior to other classes, the difference between a duellist and assassin spec would be the lack of extreme mobility/disengage in first case compared to the latter

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was thinking more passive healing, blocks, barriers and the like. Damage reduction only works if its not usually inactive and if you can make use of it via healing or barrier application. Thief cannot.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    I don't understand..you want to play an assassin right?! well an assassin is not a brawler at least not in a MMO. As far as I am concerned , the thief class should be specialized in +1 quick burst to create imbalances during fight and at the same time it should not have the sustain to last in a fight against a spec made for sustain, a burst class like thief should have an assassin spec and a duellist spec ( possibly a support spec ) , the assassin spec superior to other class while the duellist spec inferior to other classes, the difference between a duellist and assassin spec would be the lack of extreme mobility/disengage in first case compared to the latter

    An assassin oneshots, or at least quickly kills, a target. Thief obviously cant do that. And its probably a good thing that it cant, assassins are not really good design. So thief doesnt have the burst to be able to kill someone before their lack of survivability kicks in. So they kinda need it to survive. Or they would, if thieves were to actually fight. But thief doesnt really fight. They +1 and run away as soon as anyone turns around. Sadly, Shortbow 5 mandates that. Still, the problem right now is that even +1ing is ineffective since thief damage is pathetic even by thief standards, and general tankiness went way up.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    In the other hand he might say , that specific spec existed since launch . People where fixated about what the streamers are using atm .
    While some other like those French teams , thought outside the box and used that WvWvW spec

    Every combination of weapons has existed since launch. Doesnt mean that they were good, nor that they were unchanged. In case of P/D, neither is the case. It wasnt a good weaponset for a very long time, and it saw massive changes a while back with the addition of unload on skill 3.

    The majority might had been nerfed since launch . And yet , those 2 French teams used it to counter the established meta and win

    The build worked out. But the video burnfall shows, as usual, is irrelevant.

    I should congratulate the 2 teams , for moving the meta forward . I am looking forward to the no-stack-tournament in July .
    My boyfriend seem kinda happy atm, and i am going to ''punish'' him later for the giggles:)

    A thief player who doesnt loathe condi thief? Preposterous.

    Its not entirely irrelevant .

    It is entirely irrelevant. The build wasnt good, since then we had a complete overhaul of not just the trait system, but also conditions as a whole. Skill 3 saw numerous changes, skill 4 a couple, and at that point in time people had yet to figure out how to easily stop Shadow Refuge (why do you think noone uses it anymore) and CnD (why do you think D/D thief fell off the face of the earth). And thats not even getting into how cherrypicked the video is.

    The Sustain was not on par with the current meta (especially the warrior) , based on the video . And thieves had multiply nerfs since then

    Funny thing that. Sustain on Warrior was actually much better. Healing Signet was nerfed several times since then. Adrenal Healing was nerfed, and you dont get free healing power from traits anymore. Thats just another sign that the video is cherrypicked. Oh and, P/D condi thief specifically was never nerfed. Just buffed. Over and Over.

    But people in the tournaments used the Shadow refuge . In solo que , you cant cordinate with stranger , that why is not used .
    CND was also used from 2 French teams to win the tournaments .

    Did they? Oh they probably were using the shadow field combo since the stealth attack has 100% projectile finisher. No the reason Shadow Refuge isnt used isnt "because you cant coordinate with strangers" (you can, thats why you smoke field + blast people in solo Q). Its because its bad. Plop down a shadow refuge, and you just signal to your enemies "Chuck AoEs here and we will drop like flies". And for out of combat stealthing up, Smoke field + blast is just better.

    If we look other classes like Memsers and the rest on the video , we can see the the Vanilia was a less sustain that the current .
    So if P/D dagger thieve had problems before , it wouldn't make it to the ''now'' era and win vs all the Bunker meta was we are plagued .
    I mean , that some spec went under the radar , because people are so fixed about what streamers are doing

    Dunno about all the classes, but nah, Mesmers sustained used to be way better. Its no comparision. And condis used to be way worse. As I said, the video is irrelevant, the build, the systems and the enemies have nothing in common with right now.

    But the video is kinda relevant . The majority of thieves only got nerfed all these years while the sustain was increased dramatically .
    That means there are even more hidden old PvP/WvWvW specs to be used again . And we should not get fixed on what the streamers are doing .
    Just like 2 French teams -un baquet

    Sustain has not been increased dramatically. It just seems that way because damage for other classes has been somewhat stifled. While you have a point that people shouldn't get attached to what the streamers are doing, that really doesn't mean that they're representative of the entire thief player base. For example, Vallun and Sindrener are THE thief streamers because they play at a level far past most other thieves on GW2. Saying that just because the streamers are doing something doesnt mean that the rest of the thief players are also doing that because most people would be streamers themselves if they were doing what Vallun and Sindrener were doing. Furthermore, sustain has not been increased dramatically for thief. If anything, it's been cut even more but because of the current bunker meta that we're in, other professions aren't running builds that are punishing the poor state that thief sustain is in. Thief still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest sustainability's in GW2.

    Sustain in a MMO is not just raw healing burst or invulnerability, the ability to block incoming dmg and to avoid death is also sustain...in that regard thief does not lack any more sustain than other classes

    So... please explain to me what sustain a thief has in a fight to the death with another class?

    I don't understand..you want to play an assassin right?! well an assassin is not a brawler at least not in a MMO. As far as I am concerned , the thief class should be specialized in +1 quick burst to create imbalances during fight and at the same time it should not have the sustain to last in a fight against a spec made for sustain, a burst class like thief should have an assassin spec and a duellist spec ( possibly a support spec ) , the assassin spec superior to other class while the duellist spec inferior to other classes, the difference between a duellist and assassin spec would be the lack of extreme mobility/disengage in first case compared to the latter

    Please read my initial post that began this entire conversation. Then come back

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

    You are freely entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to make my own case and continue to stand by it since beta.

    Thank You! for reading

    -Burnfall-

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

    You are freely entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to make my own case and continue to stand by it since beta.

    Thank You! for reading

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

    You are freely entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to make my own case and continue to stand by it since beta.

    Thank You! for reading

    Unfortunately, you are. So we will have to deal with you derailing conversations while contributing nothing useful. I will give you this tip though: Play thief. Just a couple times. You may learn something yet.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

    You are freely entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to make my own case and continue to stand by it since beta.

    Thank You! for reading

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    you guys realize that burnfall is not attacking your main right? hes not saying its OP or that it needs to be nerfed, he just says its toxic and its true

    He says both. By bringing up irrelevant videos that are a) from the wrong gamemode, b) several years out of date or c), both. He is infamous for his tendency to write long essays that contain nothing of substance, being biased to a hilarious degree (he always defends necro even when its über-broken, but doesnt stop calling for thief nerfs even when thief is in the gutter), and posting videos so irrelevant and out of place its just jarring.

    UNOwen, pull up my history as evidence with main Thief Profession Players who knows me well enough. I've been calling out for Thief Profession to be redesigned and speaking the honest Truth that nerfing them will not change anything and i use History to prove just that.

    Im well aware of your history. Your bias, your irrational hatred of thief, and the fact that despite how much you obsess with the class, you dont seem to care to research anything about it.

    I realized that nerfing Thief Profession will do more hard than good to the player experience

    Ill believe that when pigs fly.

    I do support other Thief Profession constructive suggestions as to how put Thief back into line, being a healthy competitive Profession. Why not? I Same way that i am very Passionate about Necromancer and Mesmer Profession, they deserve that same chance.

    Please. You want to remove anything thief has without compensation. Your idea of a "healthy" thief is a useless thief.

    My suggestions as the way they have always been before (look up my history), is for Anet to deal with the core root problems than everything else will follow.

    Im aware of your suggestions. They fix "core problems" that arent problems, and are almost all terrible suggestions to the point where I question if youve ever played a single game of thief.

    Why do we constantly have to deal with the same repetitive problems from 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 years ago? That is the key!!

    We dont. I mean I guess sometimes a problem repeats, bunker builds, Necro being unkillable, things like that. But for the most part, we get new troubles.

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us learn, improve and to prevent past problems from surfing again?

    Shouldn't History be used as a tool to help us decrease Toxicity and to hopefully remove it all together?

    Shouldn't History be used to create new growth, new ideas with new visions?

    Big talk for someone who doesnt learn from history.

    This is what i stand for and this is what i continue to address without sugar-coating the Truth

    You dont care for the truth. If you cared for the truth you wouldnt constantly spam misleading videos and make grandious essays that obfuscate the fact that youre talking utter nonsense.

    Thief Profession should've been in much healthier state with having new designs with new improvisation and it deserves it including its passionate players.

    Thief doesnt need a redesign. Thief doesnt even really need any changes. Out of combat stealth does, but thief is far from the only culprit there (your beloved Mesmer for a long time was a bigger problem there).

    I've always said this, i Sympathize Thief Profession for being solely designed as Toxic,to do harm, wrong than good. I've always stood by Thief Profession players in game and defend them against other Toxic Professions (see my recent history experiences) because it is not their fault, they don't deserve to be treated unfairly.

    "Toxic". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think means. Thief was not designed to be "toxic". It was designed to represent the tricky, underhanded approach. They achieve what other classes achieve by indirect methods. Indirect defense, indirect offense, yadda yadda. There are only 2 problems that came to be with thief. Out of combat stealth, but again, thats a general problem. And in sPvP exclusively, Shortbow 5. It gave Thief unparalleled mobility. And if thief has both that and is the best duelist, things break. But you never talk about shortbow 5. No you talk about actively bad things like in-combat stealth and other such nonsense.

    Designing a Profession to do Toxicity bidding is wrong because Thief Profession are worth more than that....it is part of the team.

    Intentionally designing a (Judas complex) Profession just for financial mean and with other mean, is cruel at the most. Which is why i will not remain silent until Thief Profession is in a better place

    Please, the "better place" you envision for thief is in the trash.

    You are freely entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to make my own case and continue to stand by it since beta.

    Thank You! for reading

    Unfortunately, you are. So we will have to deal with you derailing conversations while contributing nothing useful. I will give you this tip though: Play thief. Just a couple times. You may learn something yet.

    Thank You! for your comprehension

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.

    How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.

    Should be noted that the 2 finalist teams had condi thieves. Noone saw that coming. It probably was exploiting the fact that teams were ill-prepared for it. Sindrener was on thief because, in his own words, "he sucks too much at anything else", having stated that if he was good at Rev, he would drop thief and just play Rev.

  • Rukia.4802Rukia.4802 Member ✭✭✭

    Good post
    I dropped my thief main in pvp its garbage compared to what I could run otherwise and contribute to my team without sweaty tryharding and still getting mediocre results.

    NA server
    Fix hide party/squad nameplates
    Add particle effect slider/ability to turn friendly player effects off
    GW1 pvp rolling in its grave

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    After finally getting around to watching MaT's from yesterday when i see thieves on 7 out of 8 semi finalist teams and every single team in the finals across both regions with a mixture of both power and condi builds, I'm inclined to say the original premise of this thread is a load of nonsense that has gone on way too long.

    How many times did you see a thief win a 1v1?

    You want to duel like other professions, so have their sustain/tankiness and still have the mobility/stealth abilities of a ninja...where are exactly the weaknesses here?

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter