How to Nerf condition the Right way! Tested Condition on Plat and Gold Elo

I been testing condition classes for a lot lately 2 weeks Aprox, because condition is more dominant on this meta, and I come to a conclusion why condition is very powerful. If you have any input please let me know, new knowledge is welcome I could perhaps apply it to my testing.Reasons Condition is strong!

1. Not Enough condi clense on some classes
2. They stack quite easily, fast and can easily be reapply instantlySolutions!So solutions to balance condition dmg would be 1) give classes more condi clense and keep the damage same or 2) nerf condition damage in general by half while maintaining the clenses currently.The classes I have tested in Platinum and Gold are (ONLY) Condi Mesmer, Guardian, Revenant and Ranger. These classes condition damage is quite powerful and easily applicable to everyone. I was not disappointed by none of these classes high damage.

P.S I tried warrior, but it seems that currently warrior can be easily shut down at the moment I felt like this class also lacks condi clense for been a close combat only class.

The AOE condition damage application can be an issue for some specs.

@knite.1542 said:The AOE condition damage application can be an issue for some specs.

Ranger seems to have a lot of condition cleanse, well at least with nature magic and survival, but conditions are still a counter- 1 if they are just survival it’s usually not enough 2 even with max condition cleanse it kills the pets which make you useless. Ranger has known as a meme against conditions through out its whole history, even druid with a 13 condition cleanse in kit got hate from community about conditions

In general, I've never seen a huge condition damage problem in platinum. In your particular examples, a lot of it can be chalked up to poor use of condition removal rather than condition removal being too weak. For example, guardian and condi rev tend to stack a single condition very quickly and somewhat avoidably with a moderate cooldown. Using condi clear before they achieve that stack is mostly a waste.

Where I have seen as issues are:

• A team of mostly condition damage classes. This overwhelms condi removal and you don't know ahead of time to swap skills around.
• Ranger root + bleed builds. Stack a ton of bleeds with cover conditions on top of pulsing root and stun. It's not strong outside of that, but that combo is extremely frustrating if you can't teleport out of it.

power is much more dominant

why we need nerf condi ? don't see any reason to do that. No matter how it powerful or not, we have ranked system.

Condition are dominant ?? Do you play high lvl ?Currently the meta is : - power burst holo (or power bunk holo)

• power shiro / Herald (maybe condi shiro / Herald or Malyx but less rewarding HL)
• power burst reaper
• power support cataclyst
• symbol firebrand
• condi vanilla necro
• power burst daredevil

In a second spot you can find :

• power animorph / condi druid / vanilla ranger
• condi mirage / power or condi shatter mesmer
• burn guard / power dragonhunter
• power Warrior (all spec)
• power/condi weaver
• condi scourge
• power/bunker scrapper...

So the meta is not condi but more power + support.Low lvl condi seem powerful because people don't have good support or loss their team, don't dodge at the good moment condi AOE and take full burst builds without any condi cleanse.

If we compare condi to power :

• resistance nulify condi when protection reduce to 33% direct damage
• there are team aoe cleans but not too much team aoe power immune
• there are more cleans thant block, dodges, invul ...
• power spec (sets) have more block, escape, teleport,... than than condi weapon, tree.

Because of your complain they gut build diversity over years. Power builds are OP now and you want more ....If you want to reduce condi damage/application so give them more blocks, invul, escape to survive to power infinite burst.

almost everyone plays powerOP CONDI IS OP NERF CONDI BY 50% REEEE, GIVE FREE CONDI CLEANSE

@Fantasylife.7981 said:I been testing condition classes for a lot lately 2 weeks Aprox, because condition is more dominant on this meta, and I come to a conclusion why condition is very powerful. If you have any input please let me know, new knowledge is welcome I could perhaps apply it to my testing.Reasons Condition is strong!

1. Not Enough condi clense on some classes
2. They stack quite easily, fast and can easily be reapply instantlySolutions!So solutions to balance condition dmg would be 1) give classes more condi clense and keep the damage same or 2) nerf condition damage in general by half while maintaining the clenses currently.The classes I have tested in Platinum and Gold are (ONLY) Condi Mesmer, Guardian, Revenant and Ranger. These classes condition damage is quite powerful and easily applicable to everyone. I was not disappointed by none of these classes high damage.

P.S I tried warrior, but it seems that currently warrior can be easily shut down at the moment I felt like this class also lacks condi clense for been a close combat only class.

We have 2 issues with condition:

• spike damage in some builds
• easy application.

The easiest way to solve the issue is to implement a condition debuff when the player cleanse any condition. This debuff could look the same icon as the original condition but purple, similar to the food debuff.

While this debuf is active it would avoid the condition to be reapplied on the player.

This debuff would have non stackable duration, defining the duration as 1s for every stack the player has.

This will accomplish the following:

• It will include a Risk vs Reward mechanic, the player can choose to spike the target with multiple conditions and high amount of stacks at once at the risk of being cleansed and stay immune to their damage for a period of time or choose to apply constant but low amount of conditions keeping in mind the target won't will always be affected by some.
• Add a depth to condition combat and active gameplay: The player has to keep an eye in the debuffs the target has as it can waste a spike because using it in the worst moment.
• It will balance in an organic way the flow of the battle. High spikes can be denied giving the target to counterplay heavy condition builds.
• This can be implemented in PvE as well, keeping an holistic design.
• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.
• No damaging conditions will be mostly unaffected as those stack in duration. Immunity after cleanse would be 1s for each of them.
• No other changes are necessary, no reworks in condition damage no reworks in full classes.

There is already the technology as shown in game that shows this is achievable.

Just nerf the condi thief spike and it's gud

@anduriell.6280 said:

• It will include a Risk vs Reward mechanic, the player can choose to spike the target with multiple conditions and high amount of stacks at once at the risk of being cleansed and stay immune to their damage for a period of time or choose to apply constant but low amount of conditions keeping in mind the target won't will always be affected by some.I want the same with power, if I heal myself I should be immune to power damage for 2 seconds.

• Add a depth to condition combat and active gameplay: The player has to keep an eye in the debuffs the target has as it can waste a spike because using it in the worst moment.They should also keep an eye on every power counter (except weakness and protection) + resistance and count mostly zero animation condi cleanses.

• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.More powercreep?

Condi needs a full rework, until then I say there are only a couple of over performers that needs to be nerfed, otherwise its fine.

The problem is cover condies being cleansed before damaging condies due to the rng Gods. It needs a priority of damage or which one was first applied. That being said, another major issue is that power specs generally need an amulet of 2 to 3 stats to do any damage whereas condi damage only really needs one.

@White Kitsunee.4620 said:Condi needs a full rework, until then I say there are only a couple of over performers that needs to be nerfed, otherwise its fine.

Agreed. The current version of condi is too binary.

@Fantasylife.7981 said:I been testing condition classes for a lot lately 2 weeks Aprox, because condition is more dominant on this meta, and I come to a conclusion why condition is very powerful. If you have any input please let me know, new knowledge is welcome I could perhaps apply it to my testing.Reasons Condition is strong!

1. Not Enough condi clense on some classes
2. They stack quite easily, fast and can easily be reapply instantlySolutions!So solutions to balance condition dmg would be 1) give classes more condi clense and keep the damage same or 2) nerf condition damage in general by half while maintaining the clenses currently.The classes I have tested in Platinum and Gold are (ONLY) Condi Mesmer, Guardian, Revenant and Ranger. These classes condition damage is quite powerful and easily applicable to everyone. I was not disappointed by none of these classes high damage.

P.S I tried warrior, but it seems that currently warrior can be easily shut down at the moment I felt like this class also lacks condi clense for been a close combat only class.

It's hard to take you seriously when you're talking about 50% damage nerfs. It just makes it seem like you have no idea what you're talking about. Or is this one of those joke posts where you say the opposite of what you mean and we all applaud you for being so clever?

@GhandiBot.6257 said:The problem is cover condies being cleansed before damaging condies due to the rng Gods. It needs a priority of damage or which one was first applied. That being said, another major issue is that power specs generally need an amulet of 2 to 3 stats to do any damage whereas condi damage only really needs one.

There is a priority, it goes from left to right (the latest applied condi gets removed first)Same with boons, they get stolen/corrupted/removed from left to right

@Avatar.3568 said:

@GhandiBot.6257 said:The problem is cover condies being cleansed before damaging condies due to the rng Gods. It needs a priority of damage or which one was first applied. That being said, another major issue is that power specs generally need an amulet of 2 to 3 stats to do any damage whereas condi damage only really needs one.

You also have to remember that the conditions don't reorder themselves on your bar to reflect this but will still be LIFO. This applies to removal. Any type of conversion, boon > condition and condition > boon, is completely random.

condi seems fine to me. Fb might needs some tweeks others than that I would actually buff condi slightly to create a higher variety of builds in higher leagues. there are traits specifically focussed on cleansing damaging conditions first. I think players liek to play the easier options. High burst with good sustain but hardly condi cleanse.

@Tayga.3192 said:I want the same with power, if I heal myself I should be immune to power damage for 2 seconds.There is already something like that in game called Line of Sight and Out Of Range.I don't need to explain conditions keep ticking after you are out of range and out of sight.

• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.More powercreep?More counters. Power-creep would be an skill which make your cleanses not to work or an uncleanable condition. We add something which nerfs conditions, so we give some counter to counterplay that. And a reason so sell new specializations.

As i said this idea is simple enough, should be easy enough to implement, can work in every game mode and most importantly is self balancing and unattended, if Anet makes possible for one build to apply oppressive condition damage like crazy (for example Burn Guard) this mechanics balance the build automatically. And also it does not impact the boon rip roles in WvW and PvP.

@anduriell.6280 said:There is already something like that in game called Line of Sight and Out Of Range.I don't need to explain conditions keep ticking after you are out of range and out of sight.You can also LoS and OOR condition attacks though. Think about this:You can't LoS/OOR any attack which already hit you, be it condition or power. Condition skills just continue to deal damage after hitting you, as they do no instant damage like power.

• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.More powercreep?More counters. Power-creep would be an skill which make your cleanses not to work or an uncleanable condition. We add something which nerfs conditions, so we give some counter to counterplay that. And a reason so sell new specializations.New mechanics are also powercreep unless they are added to old specs/core as well.

I don't know if this has already been said, but condition damage should be scaled down with the amount of toughness a class/build has. Only feasible option in my mind

@Tayga.3192 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:There is already something like that in game called

Line of Sight and Out Of Range

.I don't need to explain conditions keep ticking after you are out of range and out of sight.You can also LoS and OOR condition attacks though. Think about this:You can't LoS/OOR any attack which already hit you, be it condition or power. Condition skills just continue to deal damage after hitting you, as they do no instant damage like power.

• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.More powercreep?More counters. Power-creep would be an skill which make your cleanses not to work or an uncleanable condition. We add something which nerfs conditions, so we give some counter to counterplay that. And a reason so sell new specializations.New mechanics are also powercreep unless they are added to old specs/core as well.I guess condi mesmer main. You are grasping straws here and your mental gymnastics to provide an strawman argument does not make any sense. Just be sure conditions will be nerfed across the board, sooner rather than later to keep up with the power nerf.

Be thankful if they implement something similar to my proposition as you would be able to keep playing your build as right now with a little more care to bait the cleanses. Otherwise you may end up hating whatever they come up with.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:There is already something like that in game called

Line of Sight and Out Of Range

.I don't need to explain conditions keep ticking after you are out of range and out of sight.You can also LoS and OOR condition attacks though. Think about this:You can't LoS/OOR any attack which already hit you, be it condition or power. Condition skills just continue to deal damage after hitting you, as they do no instant damage like power.

• Future specializations may have an elite which removes this debuff.More powercreep?More counters. Power-creep would be an skill which make your cleanses not to work or an uncleanable condition. We add something which nerfs conditions, so we give some counter to counterplay that. And a reason so sell new specializations.New mechanics are also powercreep unless they are added to old specs/core as well.I guess condi mesmer main. You are grasping straws here and your mental gymnastics to provide an strawman argument does not make any sense. Just be sure conditions will be nerfed across the board, sooner rather than later to keep up with the power nerf.

lol

I think condi is underrepresented. They could buff condi slightly but reduce number of ways to applicate them to a small degree. I think FB is pretty much the only class that got through the nerfs unscathed.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:There is already something like that in game called

Line of Sight and Out Of Range

.I don't need to explain conditions keep ticking after you are out of range and out of sight.You can also LoS and OOR condition attacks though. Think about this:You can't LoS/OOR any attack which already hit you, be it condition or power. Condition skills just continue to deal damage after hitting you, as they do no instant damage like power.

Problem is the argument makes perfect sense. If you get hit by an attack ,regardless of if the damage is instant or over time, you have already been hit and taken the damage.

The opportunity to LoS the initial hit to avoid the damage is exactly the same.

What you're eluding too is like getting hot by a power attack, running around a corner and expecting to slowly heal from the hit you've just taken purely because you are out of sight.