Does the state of scourge reveal what we've all suspected of devs?

They completely over-rate the value of the "second life bar" (shroud bar).They remove the second life bar from scourge and add what they think is the equivalent..... We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites ever created.

(repost to necro forums; my bad)

Oh i thought you were going to say that they're clueless devs. Well i guess i'll say it then.

@TheDevice.2751 said:AND: Pls remove reaper shroud bar and fill in all that extra power the way you did for scourge :D

No they should leave the shroud bar and just l2properlyevaluate.

We should not be asking for one of the few good things of reaper to be taken away. We should be beating it into their heads that EHP is the least effective defensive mechanism in the game and that leaving a entire core class and elite spec in the tubes just because "second hp bar" is not acceptable.

The crappy part is that once they fix scourge damage, scourge will be dead on arrival.

Scourge is a full glass class compared to other necro specs, whch were already easy to train. If the scourge can't blow up the opposition before they all start training him, he's incredibly easy to kill.

It'll probably be back to condi reaper.

There is something so utterly binary about their necro design.

God forbid you toned down the damage but gave the class actual self sustain comparable to a warrior or guardian given that necromancer should be the warrior equivalent of casters.

Just look at necromancer heals. Consume conditions heals for less than Mending by about 1k+ while being on the same cooldown, and it doesn't put a crap ton of conditions on the warrior to force him to run a specific weapon just to be able to transfer those conditions off.

And all of the ncromancer heals except for sand flare have hideous cast times while having incredibly low heal values. Well of Blood has a horrendous cd and healing for the fact it is a stationary heal, it's an outright worse version of ranger's healing spring.

Necromancer is supposed to be a hard class to put down, but it is the easiest class by far to outlast and train down because all they can do is sponge initial damage with shroud but never recover like a true bunker like guardian or ele or even ranger can.

I'd like to believe that they've already made the changes and are currently in the process of a several month long QA testing phHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... ha.... ha... sob

@Crinn.7864 said:

@TheDevice.2751 said:AND: Pls remove reaper shroud bar and fill in all that extra power the way you did for scourge :D

I agree. I suppose that was just my ugly attempt at being snarky but also to add emphasis to the point.

"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

@Burnfall.9573 said:"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

What is weird is everyone thinks they are so bad, but they have been meta in PvP for a while.

@Fipmip.7219 said:I'd like to believe that they've already made the changes and are currently in the process of a several month long QA testing phHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... ha.... ha... sob

I'd like to believe that we will see an update tomorrow

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

How long is a while? The last couple months? A month? Out of how many years? Six years?

Simply put: Its not fair that you'd say that at all. Necromancers have been sub-par longer (far longer) than they've been simply viable. Dragonhunters have been top tier since release up until pof and are still quite viable. Thief has been top tier since always along with mesmer. Engi has ALWAYS been viable aside for like six months about the time after the game was released (same for warrior. They had only like a year of being bottom tier.) Then you say they've been meta in pvp for how long? a few months? maybe? The only one who can almost be compared to the dumps that necro has been in is maybe ranger but they've still had longer periods of being meta than anything necro.

@TheDevice.2751 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

What game mode are you talking about? Recently people were switching to core guardian because it was better than DH. Neither were used at pro league. warrior has been bad since rev came out. Reaper was very popular and effective and easy to play. Now scourge has taken this up a notch.

@Burnfall.9573 said:"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

I just promote balance. I don't want necros to be lesser than or openly stronger than other classes simply based on feelings. Thats not how balance should be. Scourges don't get to be overpowered just because necros have been in the dumps for so long. Its also a bad thing in terms of the repercussions of their overbearing state. Necros have had perhaps one or two other times of being legitimately overpowered and immediately after those times they were nerfed into non-existence. They will do the same thing with scourge.

People who play scourge, if they cared at all about the class, would start asking devs to nerf sooner rather than later. The reason is because if they don't nerf soon, the community will be so up-in-arms about scourges they'll be seeing red and would not care if scourges were deleted from the game entirely. By your standards, they will be justified in leaving necro's unplayable because of how much time they had to be overpowered. This is the type of balancing this game, and even its community (look at your own comment), promotes.

Why can't we just promote everyone having similar amount of viability? Why is that so hard? Why do we need this power see-saw/flavor of the month type of balancing? I don't want scourge to be nerfed beyond playability due to a few months of them being utterly broken. They should have hot-fixed them a while ago.

That thread was also about reapers getting some much needed buffs, not scourge. Scourge doesn't use shouts.I've been playing the game as a necro since about a month after release.

look necro cant be fixed scourge is bad design its too OP or too UP.....it cant be balanced in conquest mode, reaper is good in some 1vs1 2vs2 but truth is RS is gone in 1s if focused in 5vs5 game and tbh I watched some games from past where good teams were using necros and enemy team always used that as an advantage cuz its slow and has to be babysitted......which team want to build their tactics around class that cant do anything alone? And has to be protected? 4 years ago I deleted my main necro and I have never regreted it......it so easy to kill it and if you cant kill it just leave the point wait a bit till he moves out and then decap since he cant catch you ;-) = totally useless class for team,

necro:doesnt have any mobility to prevent from decaps or push decapsdoesnt have any invu blocks immunities = easy to focus downdoesnt have any support (xcept scourge maybe)

does decent aoe pressure

scourge will be nerfed and unviable if they want normal pvp

I actually came here to make a post quite like what everyone else is saying in this thread...

What on EARTH is going on with the scourge? Could they not see it can dump 70,000 condition damage in 4 seconds in an AoE? Did that get through testing?

I was just starting to build a little faith in these devs because the vampiric greatsword build became viable. Not OP, but viable. I hesitated on buying Path of Fire because I know this PvP has been absurdly imbalanced (even by MMO standards) for ages...and scourge showed me I just got a taste of briefly being on the other side of the mountain that is their inability to balance.

What it mainly reveals is that the PvP balance team doesn't care at all about skill floors or the AOE spam issue.

When I decided to make a scourge myself what shocked me about playing scourge wasn't the effectiveness but the almost comical lack of player competence required to be efficient at it. It by far takes the top spot of low skill builds. To put it in perspective: if a trained monkey can play DH meditrapper, then an untrained lobotomized rabbit can play staff scourge. I was randomly pressing buttons for my first few matches as scourge and winning against plat players - this should not be a thing, but it is.

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:"We get probably one of the most heinously overpowered elites "

The Device, i do not understand your attack on necromancer yet you play one? or main one?

Reality check: Thief and Mesmers are the longest running overpowered class in the game including their elites... not necromancer. Secondly, necromancer surpassed ranger as the longest running abused nerfed class.

Getting back to your nerf quests against necromancer-which you play... please explain me this

"Greatsword Changes"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/199039#Comment_199039

In which you gave a good suggestion in helping your class-necromancer to be efficient?

What i'm trying to say is, you can't have it both ways

You can't be asking for good things for necromancer in your necromancer thread and be asking for nerfs in pvp+wvw threads.

I don't know how long you've been playing gw2 but i want to be upfront with you... necromancer has been intentionally hurt and abused over and over again just to keep the elite classes happy in having all the reasons to keep necromancers as a punching bag. That is right! each time necromancer seem to be viable-useful, the elites would witchhunt them in resulting necromancer being thrown aside as an useless class to depend in other classes to watch over them.

in many occasions: they would abandon necromancers using high mobilities leaving necromancers alone, defenceless than blaming necromancer in return. For years, Necromancer been fighting to be treated equally and at any chance of hope, Anet would take it away from them.

With each chance of Hope, with hot expansion...now with pof expansion., Necromancer are left fighting for their existence and left fighting for their worth, all over again.

What hurt Necromancer the most, is the feeling of being unworthy, that they are not good enough, no matter how hard they try to capture Anet unconditional love

The only reason reaper was ever meta was because of scepter auto boon corrupt.

The ways devs balance necro is to just throw boon corrupt at it until viable.

everyone qq how scroge is glass cannon and hard to play...but nobody of then can see its takes no brain to deal massive damage in exanche for this survivability which also also does more aoe condi burst than glass cannon any other power class which eny other class with that fihg burst have only to 1 or 2 targets at once in compare to very big aoe scrouge and you can see now if you dont have any scrouge in your team and then atlest is one in enemies team you are on 95% in losing team because of no scrouge braindead aoe spam

My favorite part of fighting scourge is getting hit for 6,000+ in torment damage. Thats after having cleared 15 conditions first. They just keep coming back. Im suppossed to just stand in place and get hit by everything or eat 6,000 plus in torment damage. Its lunacy. The fact that I can clear 15 conditions and still have just about every condition in the game on me again within the next couple of seconds stacked also lunacy. As bad as A-net is they have to know. I tortured myself and played quite a bit of ranked this past weekend and scourge was at least 40% of the classes in spvp. Them and sb were constantly making up 60-80% of all rosters.

@brannigan.9831 said:My favorite part of fighting scourge is getting hit for 6,000+ in torment damage. Thats after having cleared 15 conditions first. They just keep coming back. Im suppossed to just stand in place and get hit by everything or eat 6,000 plus in torment damage. Its lunacy. The fact that I can clear 15 conditions and still have just about every condition in the game on me again within the next couple of seconds also lunacy.

this is it with I and probably almost every player have...fight with scrouge....boom every possible condi in 10+ stack > cleanse, still some condis and cleansed condis applied again in just split seconds > second cleanse, same thing...cleans euseless because in just very fast moment you getting back every of those condis again

What is weird is everyone thinks they are so bad, but they have been meta in PvP for a while.

Exactly, Reaper is in a pretty balanced place for PvP imo.