WvW Condi Chrono Clone Spam Build — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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WvW Condi Chrono Clone Spam Build

Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭✭

For my fellow Mesmers out there I would like to show you my current small scale Condi Chrono Build for Roaming and fights up to 15 people. I personally feel that, right now, Condi Chrono is by far better for small scale fights then Mirage in every way even if he misses F4 and the ability to self shatter. Due to the fact that mirage misses one dodge everything has to be build around the missing defense. Mechanics like the F4 are good for specific situations but they lack the reliable defense 2 dodges offer. (If Someone doesn’t think that one dodge is THAT bad in WvW just play any class and every time your endurance bar hits under 49 just think „this would have been impossible with mirage“). The additional Ports like jaunt and Sword ambush do not make a real difference anymore because mounts got introduced and now you can’t use any of those mentioned ports without getting punished by losing a huge amount of defence and/or offense momentum. An additional disadvantage is that as mirage you are not able to pick any other elite skill beside jaunt because now you need the movement jaunt offers even more. (not to mention that jaunt can only be defensive if the enemy is melee...).

And if I have to give a really personal statement here. EVERY time I am in a 1v2 against any class + mirage I just focus mirage for not longer then 10 seconds before he dies or disengages. I met not a single mirage since the one dodge nerf that made a real difference in a fight. I am more concerned about core power Mesmers then any kind of mirage in any situation these days....

The Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+trjFYV2llgl71bTH-zVRYcRw5lHZ0ThFWGRmqZWVueQCi/WqyTD-w

The Chrono build itself is not really magical. It’s a straight forward Condi clone spam build (if we can call this a build) with dire and some parts trailblazer to reach 4s of torment. To compensate for the missing self shatter ability i think deceptive evasion (dueling GM3) is right now a must have for Chrono. To further abuse this trait I additionally use double energy sigil + adventurer rune + dodge food wich also compensates the missing f4 a little bit. (In my opinion everything can be usable with this equipment combination but Mesmes gain a lot more value out of it because of deceptive evasion). To create an advantage compared to core and mirage, the clone spam allows Chronos to use F2 quiet frequently (every 5 seconds) if shattered with 3 clones. The illusion trait line is because of this situation a must have to further boost F2 and the whole condition dmg output (i tested it without illusion and the dmg is not even noticeable) The Chrono trait line offers also advantages for this playstyle, super speed for illusions helps in the far reaching terrain and illusionary reversion lets us create 3 clones in no time. Chronophantasma adds a good chunk of pressure + a second Interrupt from torch 5. If you want you can take Seize the Moment to support the group in but I would not roll with it if your role is to focus enemy’s down. The elite skill is free to pic and can be adjusted for specific situations, for Necros moa, for outnumbered fights mass invis, for more cleave and momentum gravity well.

Counters::

  • thief’s (any kind - basically a nightmare)
  • Necros (any kind)
  • condition dmg
  • Heavy and Long pressure

I am always open for suggestions and would love to see some more Mesmers out there because now every time I see one i don’t even want to attack them :( I fear that they will log off instantly.

Comments

  • Yoci.2481Yoci.2481 Member ✭✭✭

    I think its an interesting build. I am playing a core hybrid build that is a bit more defensive:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiEBw+trlVwuYJMF2IeqT7rXA-zVRYWBZwGf5HSkioeVEdLVV8BIc/W8TaD-w

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    Right off the bat, Rune of Adventure needs to be swapped out. I'd argue you should prolly change the food too. It's not a mirage, doesn't have ambushes tied to those dodges (just a clone), you're already running energy sigils and still have (unlike Mirage) 2 endurance bars. The build has no source of protection and relies on sheer armor and HP to survive. With the amount of condi transfers and booncorrupts being thrown left and right in WvW, having only mantra as condi cleanse is just not enough (especially with its brand new 25 sec CD). Also with how IMBA Sigil of Cleansing is in WvW, not slotting at least one is an oversight.

    I like the concept but it needs some work.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Right off the bat, Rune of Adventure needs to be swapped out. I'd argue you should prolly change the food too. It's not a mirage, doesn't have ambushes tied to those dodges (just a clone), you're already running energy sigils and still have (unlike Mirage) 2 endurance bars. The build has no source of protection and relies on sheer armor and HP to survive. With the amount of condi transfers and booncorrupts being thrown left and right in WvW, having only mantra as condi cleanse is just not enough (especially with its brand new 25 sec CD). Also with how IMBA Sigil of Cleansing is in WvW, not slotting at least one is an oversight.

    I like the concept but it needs some work.

    I suspect he wants endurance for deceptive evasion clone generation spam. This build REALLY wants to shatter 3 clones with F2, anything else and its less then half as good. its not something that can be calculated to be best but it has to be tested how often and how much value those extra clones generate due to extra clones on 3clone shatter and reduced F2 cooldown. Personally I would propably try to make it work with ineptitude and shove in utility that spawns 2 clones.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649
    Well it's not hard to calculate how many clones you get out of the rune, 1 clone every 25 secs, pretty straight forward, considering it's not a hybrid build the power might as well not be there or can be swapped for a more meaningful stat.
    Things get trickier when we look at the food. By itself with it you get 1 clone every 8 secs instead of every 10, so over 60 secs you'll get 1.5 extra clones. As far as I can tell he only has 3 secs of Vigor every 10 secs. I'm gonna eyeball it here and say that at best you get 3-4 clones extra per minute. Also if you're going for strictly clone spam, OH sword shouldn't be discounted as lackluster as it is, it has a clone and a phantasm attached. Also did they make CP spawn clones twice now, once for each clone death? If not the trait seems like a shot in the foot in that build. 1. Phants are garbage now so you really extract no value out of them (maybe the pistol phant) 2. It delays clone production from phants.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Well it's not hard to calculate how many clones you get out of the rune, 1 clone every 25 secs, pretty straight forward, considering it's not a hybrid build the power might as well not be there or can be swapped for a more meaningful stat.
    Things get trickier when we look at the food. By itself with it you get 1 clone every 8 secs instead of every 10, so over 60 secs you'll get 1.5 extra clones. As far as I can tell he only has 3 secs of Vigor every 10 secs. I'm gonna eyeball it here and say that at best you get 3-4 clones extra per minute. Also if you're going for strictly clone spam, OH sword shouldn't be discounted as lackluster as it is, it has a clone and a phantasm attached. Also did they make CP spawn clones twice now, once for each clone death? If not the trait seems like a shot in the foot in that build. 1. Phants are garbage now so you really extract no value out of them (maybe the pistol phant) 2. It delays clone production from phants.

    its not as easy im afraid, shattering with 3 clones generates extra clone due to one of the chrono trait.
    if the dodge pushes you from 2 clones to 3 clones there is a huge difference, it also lowers the cooldown for F2.
    so that extra endurance gives you evade -> evade gives you clone, that can push you into 3clone shatter to generate another clone, it lowers the cooldown of F2, F2 deals damage and blinds.
    So endurance gained has multiple synergies branching through.
    extra evasion, extra damage, extra blind and extra clone for 2% dmg in illusion traitline for better uptime.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Well it's not hard to calculate how many clones you get out of the rune, 1 clone every 25 secs, pretty straight forward, considering it's not a hybrid build the power might as well not be there or can be swapped for a more meaningful stat.
    Things get trickier when we look at the food. By itself with it you get 1 clone every 8 secs instead of every 10, so over 60 secs you'll get 1.5 extra clones. As far as I can tell he only has 3 secs of Vigor every 10 secs. I'm gonna eyeball it here and say that at best you get 3-4 clones extra per minute. Also if you're going for strictly clone spam, OH sword shouldn't be discounted as lackluster as it is, it has a clone and a phantasm attached. Also did they make CP spawn clones twice now, once for each clone death? If not the trait seems like a shot in the foot in that build. 1. Phants are garbage now so you really extract no value out of them (maybe the pistol phant) 2. It delays clone production from phants.

    its not as easy im afraid, shattering with 3 clones generates extra clone due to one of the chrono trait.
    if the dodge pushes you from 2 clones to 3 clones there is a huge difference, it also lowers the cooldown for F2.
    so that extra endurance gives you evade -> evade gives you clone, that can push you into 3clone shatter to generate another clone, it lowers the cooldown of F2, F2 deals damage and blinds.
    So endurance gained has multiple synergies branching through.
    extra evasion, extra damage, extra blind and extra clone for 2% dmg in illusion traitline for better uptime.

    Fair point, though you can slot a vigor proc rune and prolly achieve better results in that regard. Still don't see the purpose of CP in this build.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    Somebody was talking about "aoes" HARD countering mesmer in spvp, I tried to explain that it's not true. But making a clone based build in WVW is madness even for me haha... But that is why I like it... will definitely gonna try it

  • Yoci.2481Yoci.2481 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree that Chronophantasma is maybe not a good choice in a clone spam shatter build, but I also agree with the energy sigils for the reasons others have already said. Against heavy condi pressure cleansing might work better.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Yoci.2481 said:
    I agree that Chronophantasma is maybe not a good choice in a clone spam shatter build, but I also agree with the energy sigils for the reasons others have already said. Against heavy condi pressure cleansing might work better.

    Oh you misunderstood, I'd never advocate against energy sigil on Mesmer. The class REQUIRES it.
    I'd sooner say cut the doom on sword as that one is a pure utility weapon in this particular build. The rune is where I was puzzled by the choice. I adore Adventure runes on all my hybrid builds, worth to mention the WvW and PvP version differ in their (6) piece bonus where the WvW version awards power and the PvP gives condi damage. The rune is solely responsible for achieving over 2k power on a Cele build. However it becomes lackluster if you go with a pure condi build as you really don't get much out of the power component.

    Edit: Another point I'd like to make is for SoE over Ether Feast. In a condi spam build, you're likely to get a lot of value out of the passive and the active enables you to spam even more clones. That being said testing is needed to get data on whether or not that's enough to offset the heal from Ether Feast, as SoE has its tradeoff when activated.

    Here's my counter offer:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+trjFYV2llgl71bTF-zVRYcRw5lHZ0ThFWGRmqZWVafQCi/aAxnG-w
    Feeling perplexed already? :lol:

    Edit: No matter how you tweak it, this particular build auto loses to Condi Rev.

  • @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Here's my counter offer:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+trjFYV2llgl71bTF-zVRYcRw5lHZ0ThFWGRmqZWVafQCi/aAxnG-w
    Feeling perplexed already? :lol:

    Edit: No matter how you tweak it, this particular build auto loses to Condi Rev.

    I moved away from mesmer roaming few days back. Now i gotta try your build. Thank you <3
    And yeah i know how impossible it is to fight an equally skilled condi rev.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    @Leap Of Faith.8263 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Here's my counter offer:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+trjFYV2llgl71bTF-zVRYcRw5lHZ0ThFWGRmqZWVafQCi/aAxnG-w
    Feeling perplexed already? :lol:

    Edit: No matter how you tweak it, this particular build auto loses to Condi Rev.

    I moved away from mesmer roaming few days back. Now i gotta try your build. Thank you <3
    And yeah i know how impossible it is to fight an equally skilled condi rev.

    It's not my build, I just tweaked it slightly. Credit goes to @Senqu.8054

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2020

    Great to see such a respond guys, I was very busy the last days and had to decide if I want to play gw2 or look into the forum and well the gameplay wins every time :D

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Yoci.2481 said:
    I agree that Chronophantasma is maybe not a good choice in a clone spam shatter build, but I also agree with the energy sigils for the reasons others have already said. Against heavy condi pressure cleansing might work better.

    Oh you misunderstood, I'd never advocate against energy sigil on Mesmer. The class REQUIRES it.
    I'd sooner say cut the doom on sword as that one is a pure utility weapon in this particular build. The rune is where I was puzzled by the choice. I adore Adventure runes on all my hybrid builds, worth to mention the WvW and PvP version differ in their (6) piece bonus where the WvW version awards power and the PvP gives condi damage. The rune is solely responsible for achieving over 2k power on a Cele build. However it becomes lackluster if you go with a pure condi build as you really don't get much out of the power component.

    Edit: Another point I'd like to make is for SoE over Ether Feast. In a condi spam build, you're likely to get a lot of value out of the passive and the active enables you to spam even more clones. That being said testing is needed to get data on whether or not that's enough to offset the heal from Ether Feast, as SoE has its tradeoff when activated.

    Here's my counter offer:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+trjFYV2llgl71bTF-zVRYcRw5lHZ0ThFWGRmqZWVafQCi/aAxnG-w
    Feeling perplexed already? :lol:

    Edit: No matter how you tweak it, this particular build auto loses to Condi Rev.

    Thank you for all your suggestions I really appreciate it and also took it serious and tested a lot since then.

    Sigil:
    I switched the double doom signet, as you mentioned, for double cleanse to get additional Condi remove and I must say it feels pretty good against Necros and burnbuilds now. The lost poison is not really noticeable.

    Bufffood:
    I also tested other bufffoods but the 40% more endurance regeneration is in my personal opinion a main reason why this build works in WvW but not PvP, (it felt that something important was missing with other food). The additional dodges are very important to compensate for the f4 skill. In addition the ability to use F2 every 5 seconds is very strong (and totally fun) and creates 4 conditions (torment, confusion, blind and cripple). A bonus is here the alacrity wich is basically a perma buff with the amount of clones you generate with this build. (also eliminates the need of Lost Time)

    Chrono-GM-Trait:
    About the CP trait, yeah this is one of the things I struggle with and maybe someone has a suggestion here. The problem is that no Chrono-GM trait is really helpful for this build. Seize the Moment only offers a good synergy with scepter so it is very situational to use, Lost Time is not needed because you generate enough alacrity, so I went for CP just to create a little bit more pressure with a second random Interrupt. But I noticed that with CP if you time it right the illusion from Phantasmal Duelist will exactly spawn after you executed your first F2 wich creates a huge amount of momentum because you can directly shatter F1 or F3 after F2 with 2+ clones.

    Rune:
    This is also a thing I can’t really decide. I was watching for a rune with vigor but I couldn’t find a good one maybe you could recommend one? Rune of perplexity is also a good idea here but in fight I didn’t feel like I need more confusion duration, the ability to apply every 5 seconds up to 6 stacks of confusion helps a lot to compensate for that and the confusion itself has already a duration of 7 seconds. Or should I maybe go dura-rune against thief bursts? I would love to see here some more suggestions.

    For now my build looks like this:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiEBw+trjFYV2llgl71bTH-zVZYMhgCmL0TMkxB2Q5kTQ0UAFVAmZF0bKEcg46BJI+bpKPN-w

    I also went a little bit down with my HP pool, as it was suggested, and went to cap at 33% crit Chance but I have to fight more to notice if the additional bleed stacks help cover my confusion and torment .

    I wanted to mention that this is no attempted to create a meta build it should just make fun to use and in such times also motivate other Mesmer players to test things out :)

    Edit: oh also a funny way to play is to change manta with Null Filed. It is not stronger then mantra but against some not so Condi heavy builds it is really awesome to use because you can create chaos armor with sword-torch or confusion with pistol projectiles every 20 seconds and it feels a little bit like playing a bunker build. I also changed Ether Fest to well of eternity for that and also picked gravity well in addition so every time I used CS it was awesome funny (but not really strong)

  • Yoci.2481Yoci.2481 Member ✭✭✭

    I played around with it a bit, too. If you switch to Ineptitude over Deceptive Evasion you can create insane stacks of confusion which makes many enemies self explode. I think it is weaker in duels, but awesome in a +1 situation.

  • @Yoci.2481 said:
    I played around with it a bit, too. If you switch to Ineptitude over Deceptive Evasion you can create insane stacks of confusion which makes many enemies self explode. I think it is weaker in duels, but awesome in a +1 situation.

    That would be your standard tradeoff of dmg vs sustain, however with ineptitude you have the fight timer running against you since it's only a matter of time before you run dry on resources (clones).

    I have many names, but you know exactly whose alt this is. I mean what did you think they were gonna do? Not take my money?

  • Yoci.2481Yoci.2481 Member ✭✭✭

    But with Seize the Moment and 3 clone F2 spam you have basically permanent quickness with means you can restore your clones very easily with scepter auto attack. Then you can F2 shatter clones almost every 5 seconds. If someone isn't paying attention to you that is a lot of confusion coming their way.

    It's not a good build but very fun when it works.

  • mikdepadua.8376mikdepadua.8376 Member ✭✭✭

    id swap the armor rune with anti-toxin