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How to PROPERLY handle lich form.

Brimstone Jack.3462Brimstone Jack.3462 Member ✭✭✭

Kite/LOS for 10 seconds. That's literally all. You're welcome.

<1

Comments

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Reflects? Boon corrupts? Raw dps? Crazy amounts of cc? Blind? Conditions in general?

    I'm not sure which lich forms you're speaking of, but kiting and LOS will keep liches from doing pretty much all of that. They have ZERO mobility. XD

  • Brimstone Jack.3462Brimstone Jack.3462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Reflects? Boon corrupts? Raw dps? Crazy amounts of cc? Blind? Conditions in general?

    I'm not sure which lich forms you're speaking of, but kiting and LOS will keep liches from doing pretty much all of that. They have ZERO mobility. XD

    Everything I mentioned is a good counter to lich form, so no Los is not the only solution

    Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying those things kept other players from being able to kite/LOS. Apologies. My point wasn't that kiting and LOS are the ONLY things that work, just that they're really all you need and literally every class can do it.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Nah, its more fun to do Corrupt Boon > Scepter 3 > Corrupt Boon for the duration of it.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You go in and push the kitten in of the necro for pressing that button, it will drop the Lich form or die.

  • Serenity.6304Serenity.6304 Member ✭✭✭

    Lich really got me into trouble lots of times in the past and I sometimes chose the anti projectile cloud on necro to survive it, but it’s not necessary.

    LoS is they way to go and it is recommended to learn to be aware of where you can hide.

    Here a short clip of a fight where LoS saved me :
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ShortWimpyAntHassaanChop

    Join an empty custom arena to explore, it’s worth it and the newly gained knowledge is helping you against other classes or projectile skills as well.

    ~ Miyu Chan / twitch miyu_chan_serenity

  • I said what I had to say. I'm fine with this now becoming a thread about all the simple ways to counter lich or necros in general.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The thing is, from what I've watched from the plat2-Legendary streams, it becomes a mind game of when to pop Lich.

    Do you pop when your opponent has another necro around who can potentially corrupt and shut your lich down?
    Do you pop only after you have seen your opponents use up some of their projectile hates like DH F3 Shield or Weaver Anti Range AOE?
    Do you pop only when opponent has a down and you can Lich fear + spike when they are all too busy ressing or rotating out?
    Do you pop only when you have gained high ground and they can't shut you down that easily?

    Lots of mind games.
    Sometimes you wait for them to pop their anti-Lich defenses, sometimes they wait for you to pop your Lich.
    There are many counters as others have said but it isn't always very straightforward.
    But I feel the ball is largely in the Necro's court.
    They pop at the right time, they win.

    Necro general tankiness/sustain is fine in PvP at higher tiers where players know how to focus and lock down the necro.
    It is the Lich damage that needs a nerf.

  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    The thing is, from what I've watched from the plat2-Legendary streams, it becomes a mind game of when to pop Lich.

    Do you pop when your opponent has another necro around who can potentially corrupt and shut your lich down?
    Do you pop only after you have seen your opponents use up some of their projectile hates like DH F3 Shield or Weaver Anti Range AOE?
    Do you pop only when opponent has a down and you can Lich fear + spike when they are all too busy ressing or rotating out?
    Do you pop only when you have gained high ground and they can't shut you down that easily?

    Lots of mind games.
    Sometimes you wait for them to pop their anti-Lich defenses, sometimes they wait for you to pop your Lich.
    There are many counters as others have said but it isn't always very straightforward.
    But I feel the ball is largely in the Necro's court.
    They pop at the right time, they win.

    Necro general tankiness/sustain is fine in PvP at higher tiers where players know how to focus and lock down the necro.
    It is the Lich damage that needs a nerf.

    I saw nothing here that negates the simple idea of "When the giant green glowing fella shows up, go over there for a few seconds if they target you." But I do pick up the occasional kill from lich. But not the bulk. People run, they live. Even if you chase them. shrug

  • Serenity.6304Serenity.6304 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    The thing is, from what I've watched from the plat2-Legendary streams, it becomes a mind game of when to pop Lich.

    Do you pop when your opponent has another necro around who can potentially corrupt and shut your lich down?
    Do you pop only after you have seen your opponents use up some of their projectile hates like DH F3 Shield or Weaver Anti Range AOE?
    Do you pop only when opponent has a down and you can Lich fear + spike when they are all too busy ressing or rotating out?
    Do you pop only when you have gained high ground and they can't shut you down that easily?

    Lots of mind games.
    Sometimes you wait for them to pop their anti-Lich defenses, sometimes they wait for you to pop your Lich.
    There are many counters as others have said but it isn't always very straightforward.
    But I feel the ball is largely in the Necro's court.
    They pop at the right time, they win.

    Necro general tankiness/sustain is fine in PvP at higher tiers where players know how to focus and lock down the necro.
    It is the Lich damage that needs a nerf.

    This is so true. It is what makes me choose plaguelands 75 % of the time on blood condi necro.

    I always try to wait for the right moment for Lich but it's tricky. I mean, the CD is pretty high. Sometimes I think "Should I? Is now the right moment?" and I wait so long...And then that moment is gone and you missed it. And when you wanna do it differently next time and try not to think about perfect timing I see my enemies instantly popping their reflect bubbles and whatsoever and Lich was entirely worthless.
    I think plaguelands is way easier to place and land, especially on matches with lots of AoE. But yeah, if there is not as much visual clutter going on, any decent player will just wait till it's over and not walk into it. But with plaguelands in the middle of a node you could at least force a decap.

    ~ Miyu Chan / twitch miyu_chan_serenity

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Serenity.6304 said:
    Lich really got me into trouble lots of times in the past and I sometimes chose the anti projectile cloud on necro to survive it, but it’s not necessary.

    LoS is they way to go and it is recommended to learn to be aware of where you can hide.

    Here a short clip of a fight where LoS saved me :
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ShortWimpyAntHassaanChop

    Join an empty custom arena to explore, it’s worth it and the newly gained knowledge is helping you against other classes or projectile skills as well.

    You do realise that you ate two autos before LoS, and took a total of 6k+ dmg. And for good necros, they use lich when they can fear the opponent. The issue with Lich is that the auto attack is too fast and does too high dmg.

  • Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it depends on the situation

    mostly i use my block/ reflects projectiles

    sometimes i just go full offensive cuz i feel they die faster in lich form

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Serenity.6304Serenity.6304 Member ✭✭✭

    @&gt; @Crozame.4098 said:

    You do realise that you ate two autos before LoS, and took a total of 6k+ dmg. And for good necros, they use lich when they can fear the opponent. The issue with Lich is that the auto attack is too fast and does too high dmg.

    Yeah, of course. It's not an optimal example cus I still took dmg I could have avoided, but it could have been much more. First thing from my few matches I recorded that came to my mind when I thought of LoSing Lich.

    Good thing for Lich is: Even if it has a fast AA and and high dmg, there is counterplay and on top of it with that prominent animation you cannot be overlooked, even with lots of visual clutter going on, so there's that.

    ~ Miyu Chan / twitch miyu_chan_serenity

  • I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    2000 dmg is kinda iffy, especially for a elite that has like 150-160 seconds and loses mobility, and core lost a lot of dps, at least compared to reaper, and condition.

    Once you delete lich dmg and its sustain, it becomes a punching bag again.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Serenity.6304 said:
    @&gt; @Crozame.4098 said:

    You do realise that you ate two autos before LoS, and took a total of 6k+ dmg. And for good necros, they use lich when they can fear the opponent. The issue with Lich is that the auto attack is too fast and does too high dmg.

    Yeah, of course. It's not an optimal example cus I still took dmg I could have avoided, but it could have been much more. First thing from my few matches I recorded that came to my mind when I thought of LoSing Lich.

    Good thing for Lich is: Even if it has a fast AA and and high dmg, there is counterplay and on top of it with that prominent animation you cannot be overlooked, even with lots of visual clutter going on, so there's that.

    For competent necros, its hard to avoid all the Lich dmg, and even eat 1-2 autos is high pressure.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    you guys feeling ok? lich for is not a problem at all unless there is some specific reason you are stuck in the fight ( 2v2 was where it was bonkers )
    if anything it needs to last longer, autoattack could use a small nerf (5-15%) and CD reduction.
    Lich form is not the problem, shroud and shroud generation is.

    EDIT
    im scared by warriors rampage WAAAY more then im scared from lich form, if anything lich form is a moment of relief, but then again I play ranged spec that can easy peasy hit then when they hit back so im kinda biased .

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    Kite/LOS for 10 seconds. That's literally all. You're welcome.

    Along with:

    • reflect skills
    • dodging the obvious arm cast telegraphs "slow down and use your common sense"
    • CC chains
    • calling target on its head

    People shouldn't be complaining about Lich. It's really not that strong.

  • youle.5824youle.5824 Member ✭✭

    To OP who posted this have you ever checked what were lich skills except 1? Cause lichs with brain use 1 with 2, which is bugged as instant cast cripple and makes kiting not as simple, and guess if nec has even a wee bit more brain cell he'll cc combo before lich and with lich 3 for more fear combo slash dmg, to land 2-3 guaranteed auto, which is still close to 10k on the meta carrion build. Im not saying lich cant be countered, just that it requires more than any other elite currently to counter and most nec you meet just go braindead spamming with no target in mind hence ez kiting in low rated game, in current nerfed state its as stupid as old rampage.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think Lich Form as an elite is great. My only gripe is the AA damage. I would scale it down a bit. My 2 cents

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lich was op when it had 20 seconds, because it was way to long, but 10 is ez

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    It should probably have its cooldown reduced to 90s now though for consistency.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think Lich is largely fine, big cool down but also a big "focus me down" indicator especially if you can corrupt or remove the stab.

    There's no problems having big "iWin" buttons as long as they're not frequent, overbearing, don't last too long and there is some counter to it. In this case LoS and generally running away for 10s will do the trick and they lose a lot of defence in Lich already.

  • @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

  • @youle.5824 said:
    To OP who posted this have you ever checked what were lich skills except 1? Cause lichs with brain use 1 with 2, which is bugged as instant cast cripple and makes kiting not as simple, and guess if nec has even a wee bit more brain cell he'll cc combo before lich and with lich 3 for more fear combo slash dmg, to land 2-3 guaranteed auto, which is still close to 10k on the meta carrion build. Im not saying lich cant be countered, just that it requires more than any other elite currently to counter and most nec you meet just go braindead spamming with no target in mind hence ez kiting in low rated game, in current nerfed state its as stupid as old rampage.

    10 seconds every 3 minutes in a team of five, you get focused. If you didn't bring any condi cleanse to a lich fight, that's on you.

  • @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

  • @Malcastus.6240 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

    A nuke with a dozen options to avoid? On a class where any group with a cleanse/heal prof can just eliminate most of your non-lich damage? Cool story, bro.

    PVP isn't only balanced around elite skills. But it is based on players with higher skill levels than you or I.

  • Arklite.4013Arklite.4013 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

    A nuke with a dozen options to avoid? On a class where any group with a cleanse/heal prof can just eliminate most of your non-lich damage? Cool story, bro.

    PVP isn't only balanced around elite skills. But it is based on players with higher skill levels than you or I.

    Reviving this ancient discussion just to tell you that this is a grossly facetious defense of an obviously broken skill (especially now that zerker reaper is meta)

  • jpsssss.7530jpsssss.7530 Member ✭✭✭

    its funny when a reaper things stab will save them. Allow me to make that a fear m9.

  • ApaWanka.2698ApaWanka.2698 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    Necro have utilities that make attacks unblockeable. So blocks and reflects are not always the solution. That make the skill not OP but toxic.

    Kite push you to leave the node (kiting spots are always out of the node), so it’s the button of run or die.

    The only reliable solution are blind fields and/or hard quick CC but few classes can provide that on demand.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    I really dont know how people can defend this form for its damage with the excuse of 'just dodge' or 'just LoS'.
    I have seen a few Reapers running this elite going into shroud then straight to Lich to gain the quickness buff and blast off a few Deathly Claws before you can even react.

    Personally I'd like to see a lower damage on the obnoxious skill Deathly Claws. Time of use of the skill as a result could be increased back to 15s use. If the damage is more reasonable then provide this skill with an additional bonus of damage reduction... If the idea is to keep it the same then give it a debuff where it takes more damage when hit.

    Also do note the following:
    Damage in PvE is calculated with 772.5 weapon strength.
    Damage in PvP is calculated with 922.5 weapon strength.

    These numbers are the wrong way round in terms of balance.. I thought PvP was meant to get the lower weapon power levels than PvE?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ahhh so thats how you do it !! Where were you before the nerfs to warris Rampage ?!

  • Lich form is one of the most kitten abilities in the game, the fact that so many people complain about it is a testament to the low skill level of the average player. Literally only good if you have 0 pressure on you (lol at high level play having 0 pressure on you as a necro) and people just stand there and allow themselves to be hit by it.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think Lich Form needs to pulse 3s of quickness on activation and every 3s after.

    It's too weak.

  • @Smoosh.2718 said:
    I really dont know how people can defend this form for its damage with the excuse of 'just dodge' or 'just LoS'.
    I have seen a few Reapers running this elite going into shroud then straight to Lich to gain the quickness buff and blast off a few Deathly Claws before you can even react.

    Personally I'd like to see a lower damage on the obnoxious skill Deathly Claws. Time of use of the skill as a result could be increased back to 15s use. If the damage is more reasonable then provide this skill with an additional bonus of damage reduction... If the idea is to keep it the same then give it a debuff where it takes more damage when hit.

    Also do note the following:
    Damage in PvE is calculated with 772.5 weapon strength.
    Damage in PvP is calculated with 922.5 weapon strength.

    These numbers are the wrong way round in terms of balance.. I thought PvP was meant to get the lower weapon power levels than PvE?

    This is the biggest problem with the current iteration of reaper imo. The skill is really strong, but manageable normally, but the lightning-speed 6k (not an exaggeration) crits that hit you before you can react makes it frustrating.

    @Majy.6792 said:
    Lich form is one of the most kitten abilities in the game, the fact that so many people complain about it is a testament to the low skill level of the average player. Literally only good if you have 0 pressure on you (lol at high level play having 0 pressure on you as a necro) and people just stand there and allow themselves to be hit by it.

    Regardless of the skill level, it just isn't possible to keep pressure on somebody for the whole game. Reaper's survivability with shroud isn't terrible and they can keep the quickness from shroud when they enter lich form to get off 2-3 attacks that you can't do anything about.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lich form at this point is a cheese skill used once or twice a match.
    The cooldown on it is so long and it's too weak to compete against wanton condition spam.

    Do people even use Lich much anymore?
    I know I keep it there as more of a "Do or die, push and contest mid" skill, which rarely happens if my team is doing well or doing even.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    Lich form at this point is a cheese skill used once or twice a match.
    The cooldown on it is so long and it's too weak to compete against wanton condition spam.

    Do people even use Lich much anymore?
    I know I keep it there as more of a "Do or die, push and contest mid" skill, which rarely happens if my team is doing well or doing even.

    I like to use it for giggles, knowing that it'll cause someone somewhere to get angry or frustrated, even rage whisper. But otherwise, like the others, I got to say it's almost too weak in its current state, they definitely overnerfed it. So many ways to counter it... if you're still dying to Lich autos, I don't know what to even tell you at this point.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I either hide behind walls and when im not the target i dpa the kitten out of it, if im condi even better cuz i know the player has to leave lich form to cleanse

  • @Arklite.4013 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

    A nuke with a dozen options to avoid? On a class where any group with a cleanse/heal prof can just eliminate most of your non-lich damage? Cool story, bro.

    PVP isn't only balanced around elite skills. But it is based on players with higher skill levels than you or I.

    Reviving this ancient discussion just to tell you that this is a grossly facetious defense of an obviously broken skill (especially now that zerker reaper is meta)

    A skill you might get to use twice a match? Sorry you can't figure out how to not be the only person in the match to die during the 15-30 seconds a match they pop lich. Got a gofundme page for that?

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    Kite/LOS for 10 seconds. That's literally all. You're welcome.

    Yeah but even condi scourges do 4K+ 1 Skill attacks with liche form and they are not geared up for power, that's a little too strong.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @memausz.7264 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    Kite/LOS for 10 seconds. That's literally all. You're welcome.

    Yeah but even condi scourges do 4K+ 1 Skill attacks with liche form and they are not geared up for power, that's a little too strong.

    They are clearly geared for power.

    Carrion is a hybrid amulet with 900 power, 900 vita and 1200 condi damage. And they are doing that much damage because lich adds 1000 precision and the curses traitline grants them a lot of crit chance on top. So during lich their direct damage attributes are about the same as on any power build running paladin amulet and a traitine that improves crit chance.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @memausz.7264 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    Kite/LOS for 10 seconds. That's literally all. You're welcome.

    Yeah but even condi scourges do 4K+ 1 Skill attacks with liche form and they are not geared up for power, that's a little too strong.

    They are clearly geared for power.

    Carrion is a hybrid amulet with 900 power, 900 vita and 1200 condi damage. And they are doing that much damage because lich adds 1000 precision and the curses traitline grants them a lot of crit chance on top. So during lich their direct damage attributes are about the same as on any power build running paladin amulet and a traitine that improves crit chance.

    I wish my condi mirage was able to boom people for 5k, meanwhile im happy if I see 1k pop up. Such is life I guess.
    Well, unless we mean power necro, then its closer to 7k+ hits with the lich form, I think every class should have such ability that forces everyone to kitten off for 10s, I think it would be hella fun to play lol.

  • @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arklite.4013 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

    A nuke with a dozen options to avoid? On a class where any group with a cleanse/heal prof can just eliminate most of your non-lich damage? Cool story, bro.

    PVP isn't only balanced around elite skills. But it is based on players with higher skill levels than you or I.

    Reviving this ancient discussion just to tell you that this is a grossly facetious defense of an obviously broken skill (especially now that zerker reaper is meta)

    A skill you might get to use twice a match? Sorry you can't figure out how to not be the only person in the match to die during the 15-30 seconds a match they pop lich. Got a gofundme page for that?

    Rampage had an atrocious cooldown and it was still busted. The infrequency doesn't matter if it's a huge problem when it is used.

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    The thing is, from what I've watched from the plat2-Legendary streams, it becomes a mind game of when to pop Lich.

    Do you pop when your opponent has another necro around who can potentially corrupt and shut your lich down?
    Do you pop only after you have seen your opponents use up some of their projectile hates like DH F3 Shield or Weaver Anti Range AOE?
    Do you pop only when opponent has a down and you can Lich fear + spike when they are all too busy ressing or rotating out?
    Do you pop only when you have gained high ground and they can't shut you down that easily?

    Lots of mind games.
    Sometimes you wait for them to pop their anti-Lich defenses, sometimes they wait for you to pop your Lich.
    There are many counters as others have said but it isn't always very straightforward.
    But I feel the ball is largely in the Necro's court.
    They pop at the right time, they win.

    Necro general tankiness/sustain is fine in PvP at higher tiers where players know how to focus and lock down the necro.
    It is the Lich damage that needs a nerf.

    Quickness and lich

  • @Arklite.4013 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arklite.4013 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    I tried it the other day. Spamming 4000+> @Axl.8924 said:

    @Malcastus.6240 said:
    Lich auto attack needs a reduction in damage by at least 50%.

    That in essence would prob delete lich. 50% is too big a nerf, especially for the cd it already has. You also run the risk of deleting core nec from SPVP completely.

    50% would allow you to constantly spam 2000+ crits instead of 4000-5000+.
    Why would core suffer much from a grossly OP elite ability being adjusted? If you depend on something that is obviously broken, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

    The lich has 5 skills. Nerf the broken one and buff the others.

    You can't avoid the slowest-moving character in the game for literally 10 seconds once every three minutes, assuming they are only focusing on you? Says a lot about your skills, bro.

    Sure I can, but giving someone a nuke and others a feather to fight with is bad balancing.

    A nuke with a dozen options to avoid? On a class where any group with a cleanse/heal prof can just eliminate most of your non-lich damage? Cool story, bro.

    PVP isn't only balanced around elite skills. But it is based on players with higher skill levels than you or I.

    Reviving this ancient discussion just to tell you that this is a grossly facetious defense of an obviously broken skill (especially now that zerker reaper is meta)

    A skill you might get to use twice a match? Sorry you can't figure out how to not be the only person in the match to die during the 15-30 seconds a match they pop lich. Got a gofundme page for that?

    Rampage had an atrocious cooldown and it was still busted. The infrequency doesn't matter if it's a huge problem when it is used.

    Strongly disagree. If you try to facetank a necro in lich, that's 100% on you.