People please stop picking on Thief/Deadeye.

I have been playing guild wars 2 for a few months now. I came here from old republic. I was a GW1 player for 14 years. I chose thief, and then i got deadeye and i enjoy it. However, i was dissapointed to see that thief here does not have infinite cloaking ability, something assassins on old republic have. I was also dissapointed to learn that before i came deadeye rifle damage was nerfed 20%. I have heard that poeple complained about deadeye being "too powerful" and i have heard poeple complaining about thief having unlimited cloak (swtor players never complained about assassins there having that). It seems to me that there are plenty of other classes that get away with WAY more damage and overpower than deadeye. Necros for one. I feel rifle damage is too low, even with signets, buffs etc. I have also noticed that when shooting a target from an elevated position, the targets health will almost always regen, but when you are ground level with the target, then they suddenly lose that health regen ability. Seriously, how much "nerfing" do you want deadeye to have at this point before its an entirely useless class? people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...then suddenly it is an issue. I would ask to...IN THE LEAST...leave deadeye and thief in general alone at this point. It seems to me the class has been hit WAY too hard. I should add..and i am being honest here...that i have spoken to quite a few players in game that do not agree with deadeye being nerfed so badly. They are upset about it and feel its unfair but for some reason its like they are scared to say something. This is my honest humble opinion.

There were thief nerf threads in season 1 of PvP, the same time people would AFK until you rerolled to anything other than thief or warrior. It's a thief, so some people will call for it to be nerfed on principle, no matter what state thief is actually in. Most thief mains are used to it by now, but thanks for the effort nonetheless ^^

People complain (myself included) because thief has too much access to high mobility coupled with the ability to pop in and out of stealth excessively which leads to thieves being the perfect class for harassing and annoying other players constantly due to the very limited counterplay to the all the invisibility, teleporting and stunbreaking the class has access to.

I'm more than happy to agree that thief's damage is in the gutter these days but when the class has access to so much mobility and invisibility this needs to be the case.I would gladly see thieves loose a bit of mobility and a lot of combat stealth access and have them gain more damage and evades, this is a class that should excell at skilled dueling, scouting and assassinating downed players.. not being a glorified troll that is far too easy to abuse and annoy other players with.

so much mobility and invisibility!!? ..omg you CANT be serious, right? guild wars 2 players would lose their minds if they had to deal with a sith assassin on old republic. If thief lost any more invisibility it wouldn't have it at all. Dude...FOUR second cloaking. ….Old republic sins go into stealth INDEFINETLY and nobody complains there. As far as mobility..yea I agree its decent, but your making thieves out to be like some flash Gordon clones. Its not like that, especially since you have cooldown and there is MORE than enough time to do what you need to do to counter in between. trolling? How do you troll in PvP? is it not a "do whatever it takes" environment? by that standard ANY class can troll using whatever it is that class excels at.... necro trolls with overwhelming minions on classes who lack in AoE damage, tanks troll by just going after casters etc etc. Cmon now.

problem with thief is because black powder exist. it always be nerf.

if you not do trolling whit any choosed class - you need reread that yourl skills do, check biuld, or create new class.

you must also remember alot of the player base are VERY bad at mmos in general as gw2 is not sub based. so naturaly it attracts alot of the really bad players with no skill at all. and so its easier to just cry on forums then it is to get good.

hell if those guys went to WoW and fought a sub rogue they would give up and quit :D

Other games have good stealth implementations and good counters to stealth. This game has a bad stealth implementation, a bad counter to stealth and that counter can also be removed (basically ignored) by Deadeye fairly often.

its no fair to compare it to other game because its nowhere near the same (but it should be).

@Hannelore.8153 said:Other games have good stealth implementations and good counters to stealth. This game has a bad stealth implementation, a bad counter to stealth and that counter can also be removed (basically ignored) by Deadeye fairly often.

its no fair to compare it to other game because its nowhere near the same (but it should be).

hmm i have played many mmo's and by far gw2 is easiest to counter from my pov.. why? because stealth in gw2 is really not that long unless stacked and in most cases if thief gonna stack stealth he has not much left to attack. thief is just easy to predict inthis game.maybe i have easier time cus i main thief i dont know but in my eyes, thief in gw2 is weak as hell.take stealth away from thief for all i care but that doesnt make thief any better or worse.

thief has just been over done when comes to dmg, thief for me is equal to a warrior while warrior face tanks everything a thief constantly goes in and out of stealththief can be downed after 1 good stunif not 2 cus most thiefs run 1 stun break.

The sad part is is that Thief requires too much mental capacity for most players to learn how to play around it.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Other games have good stealth implementations and good counters to stealth. This game has a bad stealth implementation, a bad counter to stealth and that counter can also be removed (basically ignored) by Deadeye fairly often.

Its actually the opposite. Other games have much worse stealth implementations and no counters to stealth. In those other games, stealth is only out of combat stealth (the unhealthy type) and results in you just being oneshot from a target you never saw with nothing you can do. GW2 doesnt have that as much, with easier ways of stopping it. As for in-combat stealth, its currently too weak because its far too easily countered.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Other games have good stealth implementations and good counters to stealth. This game has a bad stealth implementation, a bad counter to stealth and that counter can also be removed (basically ignored) by Deadeye fairly often.

its no fair to compare it to other game because its nowhere near the same (but it should be).

Sure, lets take stealth from other games and give it to thieves and we can check in here a while after and see if you still want anything else in place of what we have right now. Usually I can punch a thief or ranger or whatever in stealth judging by the wisps on the ground or how they were moving and if I've missed that then I cleave, drop circles, and break line of site while moving and keeping range. Since I'm not one to rule anything out right away though I'd like to hear some of your ideas to replace the current stealth.

@"Maldek.4739" said:so much mobility and invisibility!!? ..omg you CANT be serious, right? guild wars 2 players would lose their minds if they had to deal with a sith assassin on old republic. If thief lost any more invisibility it wouldn't have it at all. Dude...FOUR second cloaking. ….Old republic sins go into stealth INDEFINETLY and nobody complains there. As far as mobility..yea I agree its decent, but your making thieves out to be like some flash Gordon clones. Its not like that, especially since you have cooldown and there is MORE than enough time to do what you need to do to counter in between. trolling? How do you troll in PvP? is it not a "do whatever it takes" environment? by that standard ANY class can troll using whatever it is that class excels at.... necro trolls with overwhelming minions on classes who lack in AoE damage, tanks troll by just going after casters etc etc. Cmon now.

Over all these years.. I still cannot understand this community having so much hate towards thief about stealth and mobility. I remember i had a Sin in Aion. U could stealth yourself up x10 times more and your dmg was x10 times higher and mobility was also insane.. Class felt like on steroids if you mastered it. Guess what? Aion community never had a problem with it. Never cried and never asked for nerfs. You just had to learn how to deal with assassins and if you were skilled lets say Sorcerer (which was a weak class against assassins) u could still beat em. That's always the issue i had with gw2. Instead of learning.. people just always cried how Thief is OP and stealth and mobility is OP in general. And then came the nerfs.. cuz anet listened to all of this noise from 1k AP "PvPers". Further down the line.... and what do we have? I barely see anyone playing this class. For community it almost became like a troll class.. they always ask for nerfing it even though they already know it's a weak class. Just a class you can make fun out of. That's my issue that i always envisioned Thief to be an assassin like in Aion. I guess that's a mistake it won't ever be that. Thief WAS an assassin some time ago for a brief moment but it ended very quickly. For the past few years it's just a joke that gets revealed status everywhere he goes. I won't be surprised if soon you'll get revealed by the bush or iron ore in PvE and you won't be able to stealth for the next hour. |

For Anet: It's always good to play other MMOs. And test out "rogue" medium-armor classes. Then you come back here and look at Thief. And ask yourself.. were all those nerfs really needed? Isit really that strong and mobility is that good? How about damage? Is it really that high and worth nerfing? Just take a look at your statistics how many Guardians are online and how many Thief/Mesmer mains. It speaks volumes.

yea if they redo every changes for every class that we might have a deal. my key problem is that there is still too much dmg in the game. And the way they balance they don't really allow the whole holy trinity to work. healers get discouraged and tanks most of the time get nerfed too. So there is going for dps only, which is the biggest flaw of the entire balance system. People cried about it and got their wishes granted. now yout too have to live the consequences you wanted yourself. For me it pretty much doesn't matter at this point, because it is all just how much people are willing to adapt to a new situation. sadly most of the players ignore it and want to have it the way it has always been with power dominating everything.

People think if you are thief that you can kill people like way easy because they see all the youtubers do but that is not the case. Most of the time you are focused on 1 person at a time, while 1 or more is trying to hunt you down or chasing you. Where when playing my necor i want you all together so i can DOT all of you at once and mess you up I have taken 4 or people out very quickly because they were unskilled at WVW and stood together why i went crazy with my necro. The thief has to focus on 1 mob at one time people are mad cause they get ganked but don't realize that only 1 person in a mob of 2 Or more got killed vs 1 and even than sometimes they kill the thief so in retro spec it was 1 for 1 kill.

@jgeezz.7832 said:People think if you are thief that you can kill people like way easy because they see all the youtubers do but that is not the case. Most of the time you are focused on 1 person at a time, while 1 or more is trying to hunt you down or chasing you. Where when playing my necor i want you all together so i can DOT all of you at once and mess you up I have taken 4 or people out very quickly because they were unskilled at WVW and stood together why i went crazy with my necro. The thief has to focus on 1 mob at one time people are mad cause they get ganked but don't realize that only 1 person in a mob of 2 Or more got killed vs 1 and even than sometimes they kill the thief so in retro spec it was 1 for 1 kill.

Just to add to your point on youtubers, as with any class showing off their mad skills they are only showing you their most successful encounters.

They arent going to showcase the fails even if they exceed the triumphs. People see the good bits and call for nerf.

@"Maldek.4739" said:people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...And people always complain that their main class is underpowered.. so you are no different..Being oneshotted by deadeyes before you even can be in a range to do something is no fun to play against. Thiefs are too safe to play, it is a very slippery class, if you give thiefs a dueling potential it is unfun for everyone else. I don't want to see duelist thiefs when I am on pvp. However I agree that nerfs on thief are a lil unfair. Those nerfs seem just lazy solutions to me. I would like to see a well balanced thief with healthy gameplay. It should be fun both playing it and playing against it. Otherwise i'd rather not see any thiefs in pvp I am sorry. People will always hate thieves unless it is reworked. I don't think it will happen any time soon sadly.

@Armen.1483 said:

@"Maldek.4739" said:people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...And people always complain that their main class is underpowered.. so you are no different..Being oneshotted by deadeyes before you even can be in a range to do something is no fun to play against. Thiefs are too safe to play, it is a very slippery class, if you give thiefs a dueling potential it is unfun for everyone else. I don't want to see duelist thiefs when I am on pvp. However I agree that nerfs on thief are a lil unfair. Those nerfs seem just lazy solutions to me. I would like to see a well balanced thief with healthy gameplay. It should be fun both playing it and playing against it. Otherwise i'd rather not see any thiefs in pvp I am sorry. People will always hate thieves unless it is reworked. I don't think it will happen any time soon sadly.

On the other hand if you get oneshoted by a DE with all the visual and sound effects they do as soon as they start channeling their riffle attacks, then it's on you...

@NuhDah.9812 said:On the other hand if you get oneshoted by a DE with all the visual and sound effects they do as soon as they start channeling their riffle attacks, then it's on you...Imagine if it didn't have those effects lol.. Is that your argument ? Nearly every big skill has big sound and visual effects. It is about the range. Is it on me though ? Yes it was technically possible to completely bypass those dds on certain maps with certain classes. Problem is that on some maps some classes can't do that. The only thing an immobile (btw there are immobile classes) class could do vs a DD on a high good position, is to get out of there. And imagine that it is a teamfight, who's gonna pay attention specifically to thief effects, when every other effect is everywhere. In the end ofc there are ways to go around it, but it is not fun to play against, deal with it.

@Armen.1483 said:

@"Maldek.4739" said:people love to complain about other classes being "overpowered" until its THIER main class...And people always complain that their main class is underpowered.. so you are no different..Being oneshotted by deadeyes before you even can be in a range to do something is no fun to play against. Thiefs are too safe to play, it is a very slippery class, if you give thiefs a dueling potential it is unfun for everyone else. I don't want to see duelist thiefs when I am on pvp. However I agree that nerfs on thief are a lil unfair. Those nerfs seem just lazy solutions to me. I would like to see a well balanced thief with healthy gameplay. It should be fun both playing it and playing against it. Otherwise i'd rather not see any thiefs in pvp I am sorry. People will always hate thieves unless it is reworked. I don't think it will happen any time soon sadly.

Deadeye already has overrated max range that should be outclassed by other range. If you didn't build for range that's just a build choice and If you got one shot at range then that's probably Death's Judgment and if you got one shot by that it's time to review your stats and build. If that's going on, you built to do the same thing you're complaining about the DE doing so I don't see what's out of place there.

@kash.9213 said:

Deadeye already has overrated max range that should be outclassed by other range. If you didn't build for range that's just a build choice and If you got one shot at range then that's probably Death's Judgment and if you got one shot by that it's time to review your stats and build. If that's going on, you built to do the same thing you're complaining about the DE doing so I don't see what's out of place there.If dd oneshotting from a big range were the only problem, I'd go on with that. But it wasn't the only problem. The problem is that even if you dodge all ranged attacks and get to him, he will just peace out with 0 problem. It is extremely annoying to dodge those big attacks, use the terrain to approach the theif just to remind yourself once again that thief is a terrible target to focus on, he will just port away. If thief's only annoying mechanic were to snipe out targets from distance, I wouldn't have problems with that, on the contrary it would be fun to play against it. But it is only one of many other annoying mechanics. Thief should either be slippery and do no damage or do damage and not be slippery. You can't choose both, I am sorry. Nobody enjoys dealing with all that. Gw2 community doesn't only consist of thief palyers.

@Armen.1483 said:

@kash.9213 said:

Deadeye already has overrated max range that should be outclassed by other range. If you didn't build for range that's just a build choice and If you got one shot at range then that's probably Death's Judgment and if you got one shot by that it's time to review your stats and build. If that's going on, you built to do the same thing you're complaining about the DE doing so I don't see what's out of place there.If dd oneshotting from a big range were the only problem, I'd go on with that. But it wasn't the only problem. The problem is that even if you dodge all ranged attacks and get to him, he will just peace out with 0 problem. It is extremely annoying to dodge those big attacks, use the terrain to approach the theif just to remind yourself once again that thief is a terrible target to focus on, he will just port away. If thief's only annoying mechanic were to snipe out targets from distance, I wouldn't have problems with that, on the contrary it would be fun to play against it. But it is only one of many other annoying mechanics. Thief should either be slippery and do no damage or do damage and not be slippery. You can't choose both, I am sorry. Nobody enjoys dealing with all that. Gw2 community doesn't only consist of thief palyers.

I mean DE is very far from oneshotting. And if he decides to try and build up malice, he will be short on initiative and unable to run. Thats actually one of the big reasons the build is awful. The other is that it gets completely screwed by reflects. And the third that any mobile class just gets ontop of the DE and kills him. Also its funny that you think thief shouldnt be slippery and do damage, while you play Mesmer, a class that does exactly that.

@UNOwen.7132 said:I mean DE is very far from oneshotting.Now yes, wasn't like that before the big patch.And if he decides to try and build up malice, he will be short on initiative and unable to run.This is exactly where the problem is imo. In real game just running away with ms runes and using the terrain is easy enough to get your malice back. Not that using the malice stuns thief for 30 seconds lol.Thats actually one of the big reasons the build is awful.It is actually not the most frustrating thing to play against. It was just a simple example. And it is easy to comment only on that and ignore all my other points.The other is that it gets completely screwed by reflects.Because every build MUST have a reflect, right ?And the third that any mobile class just gets ontop of the DE and kills him.You mean another thief ? Yes that is my problem exactly.Also its funny that you think thief shouldnt be slippery and do damage, while you play Mesmer, a class that does exactly that.Who told you I play mesmer in PVP ? And btw I think quite the opposite. I think that mesmer has the exact same problem as thief. Badly balanced, it is either op or useless. I'd rather see both mesmer and thief useless than op. But better get both fixed. That was my point. But you rather pick up on 1 sentence that I said and just take the conversation to other direction. Well played thief ! Slippery in games and slippery in forums :p

@Armen.1483 said:

@NuhDah.9812 said:On the other hand if you get oneshoted by a DE with all the visual and sound effects they do as soon as they start channeling their riffle attacks, then it's on you...Imagine if it didn't have those effects lol.. Is that your argument ? Nearly every big skill has big sound and visual effects. It is about the range. Is it on me though ? Yes it was technically possible to completely bypass those dds on certain maps with certain classes. Problem is that on some maps some classes can't do that. The only thing an immobile (btw there are immobile classes) class could do vs a DD on a high good position, is to get out of there. And imagine that it is a teamfight, who's gonna pay attention specifically to thief effects, when every other effect is everywhere. In the end ofc there are ways to go around it, but it is not fun to play against, deal with it.

I understand that some professions/builds have more difficulty than others to deal with them, but their oneshotting isn't the issue since it's easily avoidable if you're not half asleep. That being said malicious bs was way worse back in its time before nerfs, but dj it's almost like screaming to you:hey, watch out, I'm coming, use a dodge!

@"NuhDah.9812" said:I understand that some professions/builds have more difficulty than others to deal with them, but their oneshotting isn't the issue since it's easily avoidable if you're not half asleep. That being said malicious bs was way worse back in its time before nerfs, but dj it's almost like screaming to you:hey, watch out, I'm coming, use a dodge!Explain one thing to me: are people who died to that oneshot were just blind half asleep noobs ? If yes: Is it fun stomping noobs, why not just kill mobs in Queensdale ? If no: What's the point of playing that build if you can't kill anything with it, wouldn't it be better to change those "oneshot shiny" skills with something better ?