Removing amulets is not a solution — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Removing amulets is not a solution

Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

Comments

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    these amulets has carried enough, time to let go.

  • @Ryan.9387 said:
    Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

    These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

    We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

    prot holo used Knight amulet ?
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  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

    These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

    We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

    Said the same kitten thing on discord. Yes I understand that the amulet made it even more annoying to deal with but literally running paladin is an option and now instead of hard light you can run Egun or spec shield which offers stun break and less damage or condi cleanse with health regeneration. On a shorter cool down then hard light. 3 stun break build incoming prot holo gonna be interesting for a bit.

    Rangers are probably going back to soul beats or staying on Core with Axe/axe as an option. Yet both holo and ranger still having so much sustain from certain traitlines.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeahh....I did not agree with ditching all those amulets...that just ruins build diversity. Then again, if we're on the subject of removing problematic amulets, you might as well just remove them all! In place of the amulets, just let us manually allocate pvp stats and have limits on each.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Problems with Amulets / Runes are usually problems with specific builds.

    Amulets, definitely. Runes, it depends. The problem with runes (and sigils) are that some provide benefits which were not intended for a spec. Those benefits over-amplify the strengths or negate the intended weakness of the spec. This has been true since core days. One of the big problems lately was runes increasing boon duration coupled with elite specs which kitten out boons. Another was shocking aura on elite skills with shorter cooldown (core had the same problem with Rune of Lyssa).

  • I agree. Don't think the amulet removal was necessary at all. Barely any builds actually ran these amulets because they sacrificed damage for sustain, which is pretty reasonable.

    Like @Master Ketsu.4569 said, you could have run these amulets on most every profession in the game and been at a distinct disadvantage at least when it came to actually doing damage.
    If a class was an outlier in that respect, it is most definitely something about the class and not the amulet.

    Hope they revert this particular change. Pretty boring being forced to run specific amulets.

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  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Removing options is never the solution

    Fixing broken interactions, and fixing the fact that we have overbloat and over-stacked classes/specs is the true fix. ~ Remove all the options you also typically tend to push away players. Taking away over proccing boon spam or condi spam could be a good change, but why I guess when you can just remove the amulets that allow those builds? I mean I guess be careful what you ask for?

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    If anet is going to keep removing tank/heal amulets, could they at least give us some weird stat combination offensive amulets in exchange? I'm thinking anything with ferocity main stat.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    I’m fine with removal of knights and cavalier, but the nerfed to paladins amulet seems excessive though I’m strangely ok with it lol

  • Nerf Assassin, berserker, and any other power-precision-ferocity amulet now since you removed toughness options.... Game is not 1v1 so some classes needed armor to sustain multiple players(to survive burst) and you took that from those. Some classes cannot be played with full dmg amulets. Pushing skill in this game is out of option when game is all about outnumbering fights and abusing stats/cooldowns. I would ask nicely to revert this change or to add NEW similar options...please.

  • This balance team will only use nerf to solve every problems. If it can't be solved, it will be deleted directly. I don't think this team is incompetent

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:
    One day, there'll be only 1 amulet left and people would still complain.
    Remove every amulet and only keep Celestial then !

    People would still complain about the obviously insane condi damage it offers.

    PVT is where it's at. When everyone is a grunt, it's all fair.

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  • If the removed amulets were barely used, why make such a fuss about it? Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for new, less problematic options that would generally be more useful?

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree. Removing amulets when from the 22 we had barely 4-5 had any use is not "balancing" but the opposite. They let broken mechanics untouched trying to mitigate the stat distribution which makes them powerfull, and what happens is that the build variety suffers in PvP whereas the gap between the builds in that game mode and the ones in WvW becomes more and more wide.

    Is clear that when they pushed the 4 stats gear in the expansion, with better global values to incentive sells they were opening the Pandora's box. Recently they were forced to nerf the 4 stats amulets to the same global values as the ones with 3 stats, to the point that a lot of them became useless except for classes which need to cover a weak spot (as Guardians or Eles due their low HP), and now we have Paladin with a global value of 2800, 200 less slashed in defense (vit+toug) with no offensive enhancements in return? Why only Paladin? Why not to do the same with Demolisher, etc?

    At the end, look at how poor the variety is: you have either Berserker (or marauder for weaklings) and Carrion for the condition builds (no reason to ever touch the viper, rampager, grieving... those are just straigth garbage); you have Mender for physical damage + support and Sage for hybrid support, and that's all. Just 4 amulets in use in the entire game, and sigils and runes are in the same trend: dozens of them, but you barely see more than 8-10 in use.

    They are aso heavily compromised for the future: they can't offer any new defensive amulet because vit + toug = instantly broken for cause of the poor skill balancing, and being condition a damage source which only requires 1 stat to work that means that any new condition skill added to the game can easilly break the "balance" towards condi builds, specially under the current meta of low physical damage. Is not weird that condi bunkers are dominating: if you want a physical bunker you don't even have the access to the required atributes, plus physical tanks do no damage whereas for condition tanks it comes free!

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

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  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

    I'm pretty sure Warriors were Also using it to stay some what viable as a side noder. The Removal of the amulet just pushed them off even more then before from being anything in this meta lol. Core Ranger won't be face tanking everything anymore however Pets are still doing insane of damage and Prot holo are still able to hold 1vsX on node.

    Overall this Removal of amulets did what? Remove 1 class from getting any chance of play time possibly , Removed the option for rangers to be "tanky" but kept their DPS about the same with just 1 trait-line in Marksmen Ship getting nerf by 50%, and Virtually doing noting at all with Prot holo outside of a slightly nerf to dps on mortar and cd increase on passive traits.

    but hey if everyone OK with this nerf then what can I really say? At this point Just give us 4 viable amulets to pick from and call it a day.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    Removing amulets is the solution. Less stat combinations means easier balancing. Defensive amulets are really tricky to balance. We only really need maybe 5-6 amulets imo. Then they can more easily balance the weapons and trait lines against that.

    I'm certainly glad that the vocal minority whinging about this isn't in charge of balancing. You've zero clue what you're talking about ;)

  • White Kitsunee.4620White Kitsunee.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's just make everyone run celestial then go from there.

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭

    Think of it this way, newcomers who come to Conquest take one glance at the build panel and are overwhelmed by the options. Why keep niche amulets that only half classes can use? They clutter everything up. I'm willing to bet if anyone suggest random stat combos you'd go "why...? That's totally useless and doesn't contribute anything, most classes can't and shouldn't use that..."

    You guys keep putting ArenaNet down for every little change that will in the end not really affect YOU but rather make it easier for newcomers to adjust to this game mode.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2020

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

    There are many other not OP builds that so or could use them. And since these builds are not competitive to being with, now they probably no longer have any viability.

    And also, you are talking about “now.” How about possible builds 6 month from now, or when the new expansion arrives. When you remove amulets your reduce diversity, not only now, but also in the future.

    It is lazy approach, from a lazy dev team. They clearly kitten sPvP. Now in over their heads, They just shoot from the hip. SPvP needs a new dev team.. this is unsustainable.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2020

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

    There are many other not OP builds that so or could use them. And since these builds are not competitive to being with, now they probably no longer have any viability.

    And also, you are talking about “now.” How about possible builds 6 month from now, or when the new expansion arrives. When you remove amulets your reduce diversity, not only now, but also in the future.

    It is lazy approach, from a lazy dev team. They clearly kitten sPvP. Now in over their heads, They just shoot from the hip. SPvP needs a new dev team.. this is unsustainable.

    Just like people hate stealth, they hate bunkers.

    Out with the trash.

    Does not mean we can not have some valid additions.

    To make things fair, some amulets should come with some -(minus stats).

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
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  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2020

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Think of it this way, newcomers who come to Conquest take one glance at the build panel and are overwhelmed by the options. Why keep niche amulets that only half classes can use? They clutter everything up. I'm willing to bet if anyone suggest random stat combos you'd go "why...? That's totally useless and doesn't contribute anything, most classes can't and shouldn't use that..."

    You guys keep putting ArenaNet down for every little changethat will in the end not really affect YOU but rather make it easier for newcomers to adjust to this game mode.

    Positive change influence healthy outcome
    Negative change influence Toxic outcome

    So, where are the results of those little change and how has it helped influence positive, healthy outcomes?

    • What do you mean you guys keep putting Anet down? Let me ask you a question, imagine being in a unhealthy relationship for 8 years and you kept telling this person to pull themselves together or else.... would that translate in putting that person down?

    Guild Wars 2 is 8 years old, not 8 days old. The community is barely hanging by a thread. All we can do is to keep reminding Anet that by continuing ignoring the core root cause problems, the consequences will continue to increase.

    The population will continue to decrease and sooner, new players will 'run out of the door' sooner and will even do more collateral damage with word of mouth than.

    In other word, the real threat are not present players but new players and potential players. Especially now with the Pandemic, how it has giving a lot of people the chance and time to review Guild Wars 2 performance for themselves. What are many are saying about Guild Wars 2?

    See The Writing On The Wall
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    Toxicity

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  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    If the amulet "is only used by one or two op builds", then it is not hurting anyone and just shutting down the OP builds.

    There are many other not OP builds that so or could use them. And since these builds are not competitive to being with, now they probably no longer have any viability.

    And also, you are talking about “now.” How about possible builds 6 month from now, or when the new expansion arrives. When you remove amulets your reduce diversity, not only now, but also in the future.

    It is lazy approach, from a lazy dev team. They clearly kitten sPvP. Now in over their heads, They just shoot from the hip. SPvP needs a new dev team.. this is unsustainable.

    Just like people hate stealth, they hate bunkers.

    Out with the trash.

    Does not mean we can not have some valid additions.

    To make things fair, some amulets should come with some -(minus stats).

    If you hate something, doesn't mean EVERYONE does. Bunkers are fine, and stealth is fine. l2p please/

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    I still don't get why they removed vitality and toughness from Paladin. That's a common amulet that not only OP builds were using

    So, instead of precisely nerfing what was OP, Anet did a blanket nerf on everything

  • Ah the many things I hate about Anet. First they make pvp sparing area smaller and uglier. Then they continually take amulets away. The amulets were also the only way to test builds before investing gold in the gear. Gotta love it.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Keefe.3821 said:
    Ah the many things I hate about Anet. First they make pvp sparing area smaller and uglier. Then they continually take amulets away. The amulets were also the only way to test builds before investing gold in the gear. Gotta love it.

    Smaller? No. It's twice as big now compared the old.

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    Removing amulet after amulet is not doing anything to fix pvp. Knights amulet was pretty much run on two builds, core ranger and prot holo.

    These builds were on their own op. And provided no nerfs, they will remain op on the next tankiest amulet until berseker and sinister are all thats left.

    We've already been through this with cleric, settler, etc.

    You can also make the profession entirely irrelevant by nerfing it so that nothing matters, clearly they didn't want that so removing the amulet was the better solution because nobody but these two professions could benefit from it in the first place.

    Knight by design was cancer, so was cavalier since they are incredibly niche yet extremely powerful in that spot for classes that can have fitting modifiers. Valkyrie is much more balanced by putting emphasis on health restoration which is something to invest into, the sustain becomes far more complex when Toughness isn't doing it all with the added typical protection. Protection becomes much more valuable on Valkyrie as well.

    As long as you can clear conditions fast yet have damage modifiers, Knight was OP. Same for Cavalier with professions that had the ability to get easy critical hits/chances increases.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Removing amulets is the solution. Less stat combinations means easier balancing. Defensive amulets are really tricky to balance. We only really need maybe 5-6 amulets imo. Then they can more easily balance the weapons and trait lines against that.

    I'm certainly glad that the vocal minority whinging about this isn't in charge of balancing. You've zero clue what you're talking about ;)

    How bout this.

    Remove all amulets.

    Give everyone a stick.

    Problem solved right?

    Edit:
    Why was this thread Necro'd kitten.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All toughness and healing power amulets should be removed. Bunkers are very boring and have been an issue since 1.0.

  • Remove all the amulets except for Celestial, :pepega: