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PVP is withering


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PVP of this game is like an ecological park. every skills are balanced against each other.After continuous nerf. the whole ecosystem has serious problems. nerf doesn't solve anything until the whole ecosystem diesThis team will only use nerf to solve every problems. If it can't be solved, it will be deleted directly. I don't think this team is incompetent

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It's partly in what they're working on, but honestly MMO PvP just isn't a popular subset of the genre. Heck, MMOs in general are pretty stagnant, let alone their PvP.They're all decreasing in PvP participation.

MMO players by and large aren't interested in PvP and never will be. That's just not why they play them.New blood doesn't come in because younger people don't really play them either. At least not in any significant enough number to matter.All you've got is an aging playerbase that isn't interested in PvP, and starts dropping games anyways as they get older.

I think that's a lot bigger factor of PvP losing numbers, especially in an older game like GW2.You start adding on things like people getting tired of the game no matter how good it is and all the other reasons people stop playing and it's really not a surprise they all struggle to pull numbers into a competitive mode.

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I can understand that nowadays mobile games are a big thing and on the rise.Personally I don't like their boring setup and grind mechanics and the way stuff is sold via micro transactions.

Classig MMORPG are still a great thing for me. I guess a lot of players that aren't only playing at consoles or smartphones (still using a computer - and they exist ... also because of other normal buy to play single player stuff and AAA titles there which get released for computer) are also looking to play classic computer MMORPG - if they aren't totally against playing with others online or if they aren't totally against RPG.

With the philosphy/setup GW2 follows it attracts a smaller playerbase: A lot of players want gear treadmill and stuff like that. Focus on PvE and hardcore raids. They will play other games. It would not be good to try competing with other games. (Splitting that other players amongst more games.) GW2 has some hardcore players that like it for what it is. For how it is different.

I played 2012-2013 and came back 2019 (I did not play any games at all in the break ... didn't stop because I stopped liking GW2 but for other reasons) and I don't know which other MMORPG I could try.

Now as for PvP: Yeah it is true: A lot of people like PvE more. Personally I still have to watch up a lot in PvE. I see PvP as something to play when "finished" with PvE or bored with PvE. Raid or other grouped PvE content is not my thing. (Might try strike missions though.) I miss tactical elements in WvW ... too zergy.

With more game modes introduced in PvP and trying to advertise it ... more players might get interested it. (Then again: We have the players that say "more game modes will split the playerbase between game modes meaning longuer queues and more people leaving because of too long queue time".)

I don't know how to fix this. Personally I'd love to see more game modes and the visible skill rating removed (skill have it invisible for matchmaking) and the matchmaker purely only looking for average team strength on each teams. But not within the team. Like ... he just matches 1 plating 4 silver against 1 platin 4 silver and both teams have silmar average rating.

In the current system the platin player on the losing team would lose lots of rating though. And a lot of players that play PvP care about rating and ranking (and not only about having fun itself) - would scare away players that play for ranking. (On the other hand having a visible rating and ranking comes with players that leave cause of "bad system I lose too much" and other complaints.)

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@ZeteCommander.4937 said:very skills are balanced against each other.yes, this is part of fun. Rebalance is mean not some skill balance, it mean only changes. If you want find some quality - you will be always fail. And this is ok.

nerf doesn't solve anythingand there is no plan so solve it. This is normal state, as for me, who play 6+ years.

This team will only use nerf to solve every problems.this changes don't created to fix yours problems, these changes bring only changes for fun. Don't see fun ? Try change class, find duo, try tournaments, and ets. Don't wait that rebalance changes will fix yours problem, they not for that.

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@"ZeteCommander.4937" said:I don't think this team is incompetent

I don't know if this was a typo, in case it wasn't I disagree with you.Any team that balance according to the forum qq is incompetent and will kill its own game.Heck even MO or Colin said it on the early days of gw2, you have to filter the feedback you get because most of the suggestions are pretty trash, and if you go by the ones from certain people on these specific forums then the "most suggestions" becomes "all suggestions".

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@Shagie.7612 said:It's partly in what they're working on, but honestly MMO PvP just isn't a popular subset of the genre. Heck, MMOs in general are pretty stagnant, let alone their PvP.They're all decreasing in PvP participation.

MMO players by and large aren't interested in PvP and never will be. That's just not why they play them.New blood doesn't come in because younger people don't really play them either. At least not in any significant enough number to matter.All you've got is an aging playerbase that isn't interested in PvP, and starts dropping games anyways as they get older.

I think that's a lot bigger factor of PvP losing numbers, especially in an older game like GW2.You start adding on things like people getting tired of the game no matter how good it is and all the other reasons people stop playing and it's really not a surprise they all struggle to pull numbers into a competitive mode.

Return of Reckoning's 3k population peak times for pvp beg to differ. Just needs some GOOD pvp.

GW2 is an amazing game, with the best combat imo. Just the design choices for pvp bastardize the game and turn it into this ugly beast with little to no player agency as far as picking a meta build.

More often than not a build is what is carrying a player. I have seen the '#1 rated pvp players' on stream swap from class to class to what is the FOTM. Just is a mess.

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@Shagie.7612 said:It's partly in what they're working on, but honestly MMO PvP just isn't a popular subset of the genre. Heck, MMOs in general are pretty stagnant, let alone their PvP.They're all decreasing in PvP participation.

MMO players by and large aren't interested in PvP and never will be. That's just not why they play them.New blood doesn't come in because younger people don't really play them either. At least not in any significant enough number to matter.All you've got is an aging playerbase that isn't interested in PvP, and starts dropping games anyways as they get older.

I think that's a lot bigger factor of PvP losing numbers, especially in an older game like GW2.You start adding on things like people getting tired of the game no matter how good it is and all the other reasons people stop playing and it's really not a surprise they all struggle to pull numbers into a competitive mode.

Even at its worst, GW2 still feels like the best.

Big missed opportunity imo. When PvP is done right in MMO's, it can actually be really fun. There's been points in this game's history where it has been that way.

I agree with the OP really. If balance were more hands-off rather than hands-on, the game would probably be a lot more fun.Maybe then the focus could be on the real things that make people quit: Bots, AFKers, Match manipulation, and Broken fundamentals that make the previous 3 so much worse. Maybe they should prioritize fixing those things, and adding actual new content rather than just tempting fate by nerfing everything and removing options. That risks making the game boring, and that could be the final straw for a lot of people.

Not saying that people who quit over their class getting nerfed don't exist; i'm sure that's still a crowd, silly as that sounds.

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PvP as a mode is a boring/stale game. Rotate and hold points. You can do everything right in the game, getting top kills, never dying, have all or nearly all top stats, and still lose the game. In my opinion PvP (as a mode) isn't real PvP and it's why this mode is dying - add on to this the removal of build diversity and options - it's just straight boring. To be honest I don't know what most of you even like about that environment anymore, WvW is in my opinion far more fun and diverse.

You also have the very small vocal player base that enjoys repeating this cycling of holding points and relying on random players they are joined to, to do the same - consistently crying for nerfs. They don't want things toned down for the health of the game or changed, they want total destruction of anything that stands a chance against what they play or is possibly a direct counter. Simply look at all the QQ threads posted on nerf this or that - let's be real here there has been maybe a handful of builds since this game was released that were OP - everything else has had counters or ways of beating them. Unfortunately anet is listening to these whiners and the platform we give them to cry on is accomplishing the destruction of this mode.

The cries for nerfs/people claiming X is OP and busted etc will never stop. Stop and think about what you guys are going to accomplish for the future of the game by doing that. When you remove all your enemies you will only be fighting clones of your class, your queue times will be ridiculous with an increasing number of games that have major skill gaps.

The people I feel most sorry for are the ones who invest themselves in maining a profession and through repeated nerfing/changes their fun has been removed from the game mode. The theory crafters are by large gone from PvP as well since choices are pretty much decided for you with optimal trait choices/lines.

I think most of what I wrote here is something you all can understand on some level, every single one of you that main a profession or did main one, have seen very destructive changes to your preferred classes that have ruined your fun. I think rather that allowing people to QQ on the forums like they do now, y'all need to tell them how they can improve, how to counter X build(s), and their rank in the mode should be displayed when posting. Lastly, to stop supporting these revenge nerf threads that are eliminating diversity.

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@"Strider.7849" said:In my opinion PvP (as a mode) isn't real PvPyes, this is not pvp, this is sPvP

it's why this mode is dying1)it is dead 6 year ago, when is removed from mmo sport. And this is very very good choose.2)But is you talk about some players spikes - is depend from any factors, events, leg items, achievements, and etc.For example now is season, but also now is SAB, so for more more interesting farm kaiser weapons , then play spvp fro me.

WvW is in my opinion far more fun and diverse.welcome on wvw. So spvp 'problem' solved?

Simply look at all the QQ threads posted on nerf this or thatthis is part of fun, post on forum something and discuss. Sometimes is no matter, people want hype "guard not geive alarity !! why??" .. yes, this is fun.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"ZeteCommander.4937" said:I don't think this team is incompetent

I don't know if this was a typo, in case it wasn't I disagree with you.Any team that balance according to the forum qq is incompetent and will kill its own game.Heck even MO or Colin said it on the early days of gw2, you have to filter the feedback you get because most of the suggestions are pretty trash, and if you go by the ones from certain people on these specific forums then the "most suggestions" becomes "all suggestions".

This^ this is why by 2021 pvp wont even have the population it has now. As much as the players praise this new team thier not very good imo, subjective of course but if ur balancing around the bias gbage posted in most post ur games gonna be dumpstered fast. Doing so shows they dont play the game or understand it enough to have the confidence to make their own informed decisions, were the players not the professionals who are supposed to balance the game and get paid doing as such.

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Seriously.....

-GW2 community : "nerf this! nerf that! nerf this more more!

-Anet balance team : "we should adjust accor......"

-GW2 community :" wth just nerf nerf, nerf , too much dmg, too much sustain, why me die? just nerf nerf"

-Anet balance team :" ..ok sure...let's nerf what you say should be nerfed..."

-GW2 community : "omg why did you nerf, game is ruined, it's over omg!

-Anet balance team :".................

This is supposed to be a videogame....where people go to have fun....

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@ZeteCommander.4937 said:PVP of this game is like an ecological park. every skills are balanced against each other.After continuous nerf. the whole ecosystem has serious problems. nerf doesn't solve anything until the whole ecosystem diesThis team will only use nerf to solve every problems. If it can't be solved, it will be deleted directly. I don't think this team is incompetent

Since big balance patch pvp population is higher.The actual balance is waaaaay better than POF release because they nerf the powercreep.

No sense post.

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@"Supreme.3164" said:Seriously.....

-GW2 community : "nerf this! nerf that! nerf this more more!

-Anet balance team : "we should adjust accor......"

-GW2 community :" wth just nerf nerf, nerf , too much dmg, too much sustain, why me die? just nerf nerf"

-Anet balance team :" ..ok sure...let's nerf what you say should be nerfed..."

-GW2 community : "omg why did you nerf, game is ruined, it's over omg!

-Anet balance team :".................

This is supposed to be a videogame....where people go to have fun....

Relatively speaking, I think the former balance team is much better than the current one. At least the former team will try to add new designs

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@ZeteCommander.4937 said:

@"Supreme.3164" said:Seriously.....

-GW2 community : "nerf this! nerf that! nerf this more more!

-Anet balance team : "we should adjust accor......"

-GW2 community :" wth just nerf nerf, nerf , too much dmg, too much sustain, why me die? just nerf nerf"

-Anet balance team :" ..ok sure...let's nerf what you say should be nerfed..."

-GW2 community : "omg why did you nerf, game is ruined, it's over omg!

-Anet balance team :".................

This is supposed to be a
videogame
....where people go to have fun....

Relatively speaking, I think the former balance team is much better than the current one. At least the former team will try to add new designs

And all this because somebody lose and throw a tantrum over the forum....

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@PLS.4095 said:

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:PVP of this game is like an ecological park. every skills are balanced against each other.After continuous nerf. the whole ecosystem has serious problems. nerf doesn't solve anything until the whole ecosystem diesThis team will only use nerf to solve every problems. If it can't be solved, it will be deleted directly. I don't think this team is incompetent

Since big balance patch pvp population is higher.The actual balance is waaaaay better than POF release because they nerf the powercreep.

No sense post.I think it's a lot worse. At least at that time, there were more choices. More choices meant more possibilities

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"ZeteCommander.4937" said:I don't think this team is incompetent

I don't know if this was a typo, in case it wasn't I disagree with you.Any team that balance according to the forum qq is incompetent and will kill its own game.Heck even MO or Colin said it on the early days of gw2, you have to filter the feedback you get because most of the suggestions are pretty trash, and if you go by the ones from certain people on these specific forums then the "most suggestions" becomes "all suggestions".

I'm curious about what the forum should complain about when there's nothing to nerf, and how the team clean up the mess. I'm still confused about one thing. Forum players really like nerf everything in game ? Is such a game really fun?

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@ZeteCommander.4937 said:

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:I don't think this team is incompetent

I don't know if this was a typo, in case it wasn't I disagree with you.Any team that balance according to the forum qq is incompetent and will kill its own game.Heck even MO or Colin said it on the early days of gw2, you have to filter the feedback you get because most of the suggestions are pretty trash, and if you go by the ones from certain people on these specific forums then the "most suggestions" becomes "all suggestions".

I'm curious about what the forum should complain about when there's nothing to nerf, and how the team clean up the mess. I'm still confused about one thing. Forum players really like nerf everything in game ? Is such a game really fun?

Easy answer, look at mesmer, there's nothing left to nerf yet occasionally you still have nerf mesmer threads/posts.

Such people are sore losers, they want everything that killed them nerfed, so they can have ez wins, fun for them is pressing one button and kill someone who never stood a chance in the first place.

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Well although I'm sure balance plays a large part in the current sad population of pvp I believe the other culprits are lack of any new game modes or new mechanics in current game modes pvp/wvw. U can only play the same conquest and wvw blob/jump a solo pug for so long before it gets boring asf, add horrendous balancing and u get a low population even during a time most people are stuck at home. I got about 2 rounds of pvp tonight and one blob fight in wvw before I jumped into ff14 for the rest of the night ya know to experience some content lol.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Well although I'm sure balance plays a large part in the current sad population of pvp I believe the other culprits are lack of any new game modes or new mechanics in current game modes pvp/wvw. U can only play the same conquest and wvw blob/jump a solo pug for so long before it gets boring asf, add horrendous balancing and u get a low population even during a time most people are stuck at home. I got about 2 rounds of pvp tonight and one blob fight in wvw before I jumped into ff14 for the rest of the night ya know to experience some content lol.

For real? FFXIV is your sad excuse of content. You do realize that raids are the same shit but different color? You do realize that ffxiv combat mechanics are probably one of the most boring out there. This game was released in 2012.. I'm sure you have over 1000 hrs played, please tell me what other game has brought up this much value to you. Anyway go take a break, it is good to take breaks sometimes, after all burnout is an actual thing.

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