Increase Initiative requirement to balance Thief

Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return) - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait Physical Supremancy should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

@Tao.5096 said:Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return) - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait Physical Supremancy should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

if you buff all thief dmg by 20% then it could be something devs could think about.Headshot is fine at 4 now that PI is crap.Black powder at 8 is waaay too much, i think its fine at 6Hearthseeker could go to 4 with slight damage boost in turn, same with shadowshot.I dont like dancing dagger as a skill but thats just me, wont leave my opinion since I dont like it.Flanking at 7 is a joke, stop.Infiltrators strike/return is toxic, but I dont know how it can be change to be still usable and not super annoying.all in all you should play thief before you comment with this ridiculous stuff lol

Imagine being so bad, that you’re still crying about thief.

Remove every thief skill, reduce total initiative to 1 and give thief only 1 skill for 1 initiative that deals 90% HP damage unblockable unevadable and recharges every 180 seconds.

The problem (one of) with thief skills has never been the skill itself. It s the spamm-ability of those which create the issue. cf other thread.But again, good luck with that.

And dont forget to give Necros at least 5 more lifebars in shroud so they can't die to "spam to win"....

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Tao.5096" said:Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker
  - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder
  - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot
  - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot
  - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger
  - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike
  - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return)
  - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not

spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait

Physical Supremancy

should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

Pretty sure theyre being sarcastic. Though, 20% would be way too little of a damage buff to make up for this, its barely enough to make up for the Assassins Signet nerf. Do these changes, and thief goes from "Only good at ganking in WvW" to "completely unplayable in WvW".

Headshot is fine at 4 now that PI is kitten.

Not really "fine" as much as its incredibly underpowered. There is basically no reason to use headshot unless you somehow screwed up and absolutely need to interrupt their heal and dont have steal up.

Black powder at 8 is waaay too much, i think its fine at 6

It probably is. Most I could see is trying it out at 5, but its not really worth messing with.

Hearthseeker could go to 4 with slight damage boost in turn, same with shadowshot.

Cant. Remember, they said max damage is gonna be 2.0 with only few exceptions now. Heartseeker is already at 2.0. Shadowshot if anything needs the random initaitive increase reverted.

I dont like dancing dagger as a skill but thats just me, wont leave my opinion since I dont like it.

Its not a great skill, you basically just use it for the cripple.

Flanking at 7 is a joke, stop.

All of them are jokes. This one is just the most obvious.

Infiltrators strike/return is toxic, but I dont know how it can be change to be still usable and not super annoying.

I cant say I ever paid that close attention, but making the return spot visible to the opponent if it isnt would be a start. That way people can more obviously see what they need to do to deal with that skill.

all in all you should play thief before you comment with this ridiculous stuff lol

Again, pretty sure its satire.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Tao.5096" said:Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker
  - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder
  - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot
  - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot
  - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger
  - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike
  - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return)
  - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not

spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait

Physical Supremancy

should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

Headshot is fine at 4 now that PI is kitten.

Black powder at 8 is waaay too much, i think its fine at 6

Hearthseeker could go to 4 with slight damage boost in turn, same with shadowshot.

I dont like dancing dagger as a skill but thats just me, wont leave my opinion since I dont like it.

Flanking at 7 is a joke, stop.

Infiltrators strike/return is toxic, but I dont know how it can be change to be still usable and not super annoying.

all in all you should play thief before you comment with this ridiculous stuff lol

he was whining after necro got nerfed, im fairly sure its not satire but necro main being a necro main.

@Leonidrex.5649he was whining after necro got nerfed, im fairly sure its not satire but necro main being a necro main.

It’s required that you blame everyone but yourself for deaths when you main necro.

LOLoh wait i need more than just that to post a comment?well...LOL GO LEARN TO PLAY

Wait, is this post serious? I can't tell if there is sarcasm or too much salt in it.

@"Tao.5096" said:Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return) - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait Physical Supremancy should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

What the hell kind of balance would this be? Thief has 12 baseline initiative, the most basic combo of Black Powder->Hearthseeker would cost 13 with your proposed changes. So basicly the combat presence of theif would be reduced to use maybe 1 or 2 skills, then autoattack for 10 seconds, thats what you think "proper initiative and skill management" is?

Guys, this is a sarcastic post.

.... Right?

Lets look at this from a logical point of view....Core Thief currently has 12 initiative and 15 initiative on Daredevil to play with. Currently the standard combo of Blackpowder + Heartseeker + Backstab uses up 9 of that initiative. It allows the thief to actually use other skills to get out of that fight or stay in it.

Your proposed change to Blackpowder and Heartseeker would make the combo 13 initiative. That means your proposed change would literally end coordinated bursts which require initiative management.

Also, your proposed reduced endurance nerf to Physical Supremacy is completely ridiculous. The whole point of Daredevil is to be fast on your feet, meaning more evades. Eliminating this would again kill the class.

Honestly, it seems that you do not play Thief, have no idea about the skills or traits of Thief but have probably been at the receiving end of a good Thief.

I think necros need life force costs on spells(and auto attacks) instead so it can't spamm 11111 with quickness all the way.

If every class spammed their weapons skills for 1 minute (not including autos), thief would still use less weapon skills than any class per minute.

@Tao.5096 said:Hey,

Thief skills are way too much spammable and they are way too OP for them to be used so frequently.

In order to balance it out, initiative should be increased for following skills:

• Heartseeker - Increase from 3 to 5
• Black Powder - Increase from 6 to 8
• Shadow Shot - Increase from 5 to 7
• Head Shot - Increase from 4 to 5
• Dancing Dagger - Increase from 3 to 5
• Flanking Strike - Increase from 5 to 7
• Infiltrator's Strike (or Infiltrator's Return) - Increase from 4 to 6 (or 2 to 3)

This way Thief will be more oriented on proper initiative and skill management and not spam to win

Also, in order to increase healthier plasytyle in PvP, Daredevil's trait Physical Supremancy should have reduced Endurance Threshold Increase from 50 to 25.

Thanks

Troll thx bb

What they should really do is make 15 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it so Thief can finally have build diversity instead.

Look at Revenant not having Empty Vessel now, picking other traitlines don't feel like wasted potential anymore.

@"Shao.7236" said:What they should really do is make 15 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it so Thief can finally have build diversity instead.

Look at Revenant not having Empty Vessel now, picking other traitlines don't feel like wasted potential anymore.

Or keep 12 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:What they should really do is make 15 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it so Thief can finally have build diversity instead.

Look at Revenant not having Empty Vessel now, picking other traitlines don't feel like wasted potential anymore.

U sound like the bias hater that is just sore cuz he dislikes thief and is so self centered could care less others enjoy playing this class. Its unfortunate that people as selfish and self righteous as u exist and at the numbers they do. Why I always say people as a whole a pieces of ......

That said I wish u further enjoyment on the classes u play.

Increasing thief initiative cost is in no way the solution.Adding a very short cooldown (like 2s or 3s) to their strongest skills would cut on the spammability without destroying the class.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:What they should really do is make 15 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it so Thief can finally have build diversity instead.

Look at Revenant not having Empty Vessel now, picking other traitlines don't feel like wasted potential anymore.

@Kulvar.1239 said:Increasing thief initiative cost is in no way the solution.Adding a very short cooldown (like 2s or 3s) to their strongest skills would cut on the spammability without destroying the class.

Actually it would rather destroy the class if you do it to the strongest skills. It also defeats the point of initiative in the first place.

Looks good to me. I also think more thief skills should have positional requirements. Too many of their skills can be used regardless of what direction their target is facing, its OP considering the theme of the class.

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:What they should really do is make 15 initiative baseline and remove the trait that increase it so Thief can finally have build diversity instead.

Look at Revenant not having Empty Vessel now, picking other traitlines don't feel like wasted potential anymore.

In that case I apologize and still think what I said rings true even if doesn't include u lol